Craving remedies, junkie ticks, staying clean tactics, etc.

[Liptonbuddy]

So after 6 years of eating morphine and oxy, a year of heroin, and a year of methadone, I've been clean since June 8th 09. Anyways, the last month I was at my methadone clinic, I had to get a blood test. At first I didn't mind, but as soon as I got in that room with the nurse, and she tied off my arm, and stuck me, something clicked in me. I felt good, but obviously no drugs were injected into my arm. Why was I feeling good?

Now that I'm clean, I've had some very stressful times with craving a good high, because the PAWS is killing me. A few weeks ago, I remembered the feeling I got from getting blood drawn, so since I have needles stashed all over my basement, I found one. So, even though I knew it was a stupid move, I shot myself up with sterile water. What do you know, but my craving went away, and I actually felt kind of good for a little while.

Not sure if it's just because I have a needle fixation, or the whole ritual of shooting dope (minus the dope now). Even seeing that mini mushroom cloud of blood getting sucked back into the rig...No drugs involved at all, but somehow it makes the cravings go away for a while.

I'm guessing it's just one of those psychological things, like how a cutter will wear a rubber band on their wrist and snap it a few times if they feel the urge to cut, or a smoker who's trying to quit will chew gum or a straw.

I hate the fact I started to do this, because I bruise VERY easily, so even hitting myself with a fresh 30g pin will cause bruising, redness, and slight swelling. Basically, I have junkie tracks, and I'm not even using, which is ridiculous and stupid. There's just something about that prick, though...

Anyone else have anything similar they do to combat cravings when clean? Just trying to start some conversation since the PAWS is kicking my ass hard, and even something as trivial as posting on an opiate board will at least kill some time.

[Swellin]

The mind is very powerful, you probably got a taste of natural opiates. If im not mistaken the brain produces trace amounts of morphine or something similar in certain situations. Even if its a placebo shot you could possibly trick your mind.

[hovadagod]

def endorphins more than placebo. When you have pain the body releases endorphins. That is a great sign that your cravings went away b/;c it means that your endorphin system is working alright.

[More Feen]

I've found an odd attraction to non-opiate injections, for the same reason.

Probably better to use saline as opposed to pure water--can cause hydrolysis of the red blood cells. Saline is osmotically balanced.

It like the ritual likes to be completed, even without the actual pay-off.

Humans are weird animals.

M F

[dieselbaby]

Your brain is psychologically trained to feel relief and knows to relax whenever you get the visual confirmation from that "red mushroom cloud" that has given many a junky a huge boner. I can't really give you any advice on this particular problem, I had to just trudge through the periods of craving and my desires to stick myself. I think it's an individual thing.

[SHELLEY]

everyone is different
but if i started sticking needles filled with nothing into myself
it would make me want a real hit 1000000x worse

when i used to get real bad cravings for heroin and my doc (coke)
i'd just smoke weed, and listen to gangsta rap, and i'd forget that i wanted anything else

[Spork]

Take some loperamide.

Well actually maybe you shouldn't. I took 130mg of it last night and nodded out!

[Liptonbuddy]

@More Feen - I shouldn't have said water. It is sterile saline solution. I still have a bunch left from when I worked at a hospital. I've even got full saline/electrolyte IV bags that I've given myself from time to time when bored. I just have a weird fixation with needles, especially angiocatheters, even though the 24g needle with the added girth of the angiocatheter is a bitch. It's still fun to get myself going on a drip bag. Crank the drip up, finish the bag in like 10 minutes or so, then have to piss like a racehorse.

@Spork - I remember taking around 50mgs of Loperamide before, and I'm not sure if it was placebo, or the real deal, but I did catch an opi-glow.

Like everyone has been saying, the mind is a powerful thing, and you can trick yourself mentally and physically into feeling better. When I used to have back aches and spasms, I'd lay flat on my futon, on my back, no lights, no audible sound, and just concentrate as hard as I could on the pain I was in. Somehow, after 5-ish minutes of concentrating/meditating, my back felt better, and again felt a slight opi-glow.

Mind over matter, I suppose.

[30_Units]

It's not for everyone, not everyone has the right kind of people-but do you have a buddy in a similar situation? I've found that having a partner, so to speak, who you can talk with when the desire starts in hard can be really beneficial.

We talk shit about dope and how retarded all the shit we go through for it is. And if you don't have weed or another replacement drug, that can really put off the craving when the conversation is done. :shrugs: maybe it's just me.

But if you don't have anyone like that, concurrences with Shell, cannabis is grandadist.

[Papa Verine]

I don't know. The only time I ever got years of clean time I spent the first year in a halfway house, going to meetings almost every night. I don't think I can just quit, all by myself, and stay clean. There's more to recovery then just "Not getting high". Structure, fellowship and stay busy...

Also, do you take vitamins/minerals/supplements? Make sure you're giving your brain everything it needs to produce the optimum levels of natural endorphins and neurotransmitters. I'm not saying PAWS isn't real. But, just make sure you're doing everything you can to support a healthy mind. Maybe you're lacking something.

Chocolate worked for me when I had cravings for opiates. I don't mean a little square. Eat a big king-sized bar of dark chocolate. There's something about it that calmed cravings for me.

Hope this helps... It's cool to hear you're doing so well. I always wonder what happens to people who just disappear from here. I'm sure not everybody stops posting because they're clean and sober.

[OnzZznoD]

its great that it gave u relief, but when iv done this in the past i just crave the real deal even more and its just a tease :( my body is just like wtf no rush, no taste, ripped off.

[Liptonbuddy]

@Papa - Ever since I got clean, I've been in the worst mentality I've ever been in. No motivation to do anything. I hardly ever eat...Usually I'll eat 1 or 2 apples a day, maybe a bowl of ramen, but that's it.

It's funny, but when I was all doped up, I lived a much healthier lifestyle. I was social, I ate somewhat decently, had a job, did physical work...Now, I'm just completely "blah". I can't find the will to do anything at all.

I really can't take much more of this mood. I hate to say it, but if this continues for much longer, I may go back to the methadone clinic, only to be on 15 to 20 mgs. Just enough to get juuuuust enough opiate in me to get my motivation back. I don't want it to come to that, but it may have to. At least this time around it would be completely free. Then I wouldn't have to deal with cravings at all.

[More Feen]

Hey there Lipton-B,

So you actually slide an angiocath into your vein--fooooook !!! (to quote Raz)

Thought about it, but, nah!

Have become happy using butterfly caths (25g or 27g seem to be best trade off/size--flashback). Yeah, keeping a sharped spike in your vein isn't any better than a plastic tube, but, all the sliding & shoving doesn't do me stomach any good (if I work a vein too much, I get queezy).

I thought about running SOME of an IV bag through, but prefer just loading up some 10cc syringes and keeping the line patent. Damn, you took a whole 1-L bag of saline?? I guess a liter a day keeps kidneys okay:)

Angiocaths would be better if you fall asleep with a spike still in. Woke up one time, and noticed I had leaned on the butterfly's spike and driven it to the hilt in side myself--why I didn't wake up--don't know.

Still have the bruise, no infection--its good to clean & prep the insertion site--never know what will happen.

Cheer, continue being safe!

M F

[rosebud]

[QUOTE=Papa Verine;426055] There's more to recovery then just "Not getting high". Structure, fellowship and stay busy...QUOTE]

Amen Papa V! So much more to it. Using is just part of the recovery story. The rest is filled out by lifestyle changes, (sometimes) environment and posse changes, working on your emotional/mental/physical health and paying attention to your state of mind (IE big triggers) when you get the urge to use and what distracts you from that feeling.....stopping using......that's just the half of it-IMO.


Good luck with your journey LB. I think hearing people's methods for winning the battle is a great idea. :)

[Jose]

Just an idea...tramadol might help. It has anti-depressant qualities and epinephrine(energy boosting) like effects. If used off and on you won't get physically dependent. After getting clean it seems to work a lot more than while using opiates.

[Liptonbuddy]

I think it really comes down to me having a weird love of needles. Whereas most people are squeamish, something in my mind is entranced by a needle. The funny thing was, I never got that way until I worked at the hospital. I was a patient transporter, but I knew a lot of medical terminology, and had much medical knowledge.

On slow days when half the department was down in the basement waiting for a patient to pick up, I'd give IV demos to everyone, and everyone would be shocked I could stick myself, hook everything up, tape it up, flush, and start a drip going. Besides, it was a good cover up for me, in case anyone inquired about my track marks. "Oh, I gave an IV demo to all the other transporters. Just ask Angie or Johnny." (Angie and Johnny were the respected, +5 year transporter shift leaders, everyone knew them, and their word was the truth ^_^ ) Also, at that time, I was getting to know and become friends with 7 floors of doctors, nurses, PCTs, techs, etc., so even me telling them I was doing IV demos would be fine.

Hell, I could probably start an IV or draw blood better than half the people who had those titles as their job description.

I did recently get a therapist and psychiatrist, and got put on the SSRI Pexeva, which is basically a slightly different variant of Paxil, so we'll see if that lifts my spirits a bit. I just don't want the dreaded SSRI weight gain. I put on weight like a madman while on methadone, and since being off, have lost about 45-50lbs. I don't feel like getting that "fat fuck" status back.

[pain-pateint]

Studies of IV using addicts have demonstrated that an injection of saline causes the release of huge amounts of epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine, and endogenous opiates and something like 2/3's of all the subjects could not even distinguish between getting the saline placebo and a shot with a real opiate. The authors of the study proposed a theory of operant conditioning to explain it. I think that's also one of the reasons why real serious harm reduction programs allow for "injection sites", i.e., probably 1/2 or more of the "effects" of psychoactive drugs like opis, amphetamines, and benzos are "placebo" effects.

[dieselbaby]

Studies of IV using addicts have demonstrated that an injection of saline causes the release of huge amounts of epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine, and endogenous opiates and something like 2/3's of all the subjects could not even distinguish between getting the saline placebo and a shot with a real opiate. The authors of the study proposed a theory of operant conditioning to explain it. I think that's also one of the reasons why real serious harm reduction programs allow for "injection sites", i.e., probably 1/2 or more of the "effects" of psychoactive drugs like opis, amphetamines, and benzos are "placebo" effects.

While I agree that to some extent there is a placebo effect, and that your brain most definitely does exhibit some kind of change (and chemical release) from sticking yourself with a needle filled with saline, I definitely think that whole "2/3s of people who couldn't distinguish between placebo/opiate" is total bullshit. Source?

[More Feen]

When I need the needle relief, I usually never inject only saline, I like to have something in there that I can feel, it might be injectible Diphenhydramine, or something.

I agree, it completes some sort of mental circuitry and I can forget about opies for 12-36 hours, more/less.

M F

[Spork]

Gosh I hate needles. Just reading about this stuff makes me start rubbing my arms and getting all squeamish :-\

[More Feen]

Best to never pick up the pointy bastards Spork.

Keep that fear & loathing of the spike and everything'll be good man.

M F

[Spork]

I was only able to do it once, and that was while in a benzo induced dis-inihibited state. Even so, I was shaking like a leaf and my heart was pumping before I did it.

[oxy kid]

I'm on the same boat you are right now, just after 1 week of being sober. I'm not gonna lie, this sucks. But after reading a lot of what dieselbaby writes about how much better things are for him now, I'm looking to get to that point, and I know there is not screwing around in between now and there. You've got this Lipton. At least we can be miserable together for a little bit.

[SHELLEY]

I was only able to do it once, and that was while in a benzo induced dis-inihibited state. Even so, I was shaking like a leaf and my heart was pumping before I did it.

that was me before every shot i did
but it was excitement more than fear

[Liptonbuddy]

I'm on the same boat you are right now, just after 1 week of being sober. I'm not gonna lie, this sucks. But after reading a lot of what dieselbaby writes about how much better things are for him now, I'm looking to get to that point, and I know there is not screwing around in between now and there. You've got this Lipton. At least we can be miserable together for a little bit.

Heh, I'm 4 months in and still feel like shit. ^_^

...And about being shakey when trying to take a shot...Man, if I was dope sick and trying to hit my vein, I'd shake so, so terribly it wasn't even funny. I remember once I tried to hit like 6 times, all failures, and on the last attempt, dropped the pin and ended up cracking the needle point off. I didn't have anymore needles, so it was the only time I ever had to share a needle with my brother (who didn't have anything, but it still made me paranoid) I asked him if he'd be so kind as to hit me because I was incapable, and before hand sucked up roughly a 10/90 bleach water solution once, then straight isoprophly alcohol 3 times, then damn near boiling water another 5 or so times before I let him stick me.

The whole process of not being able to hit, the needle tip breaking, sterilizing his needle, back filling his needle with the dope from my broken one, then him trying to hit a smaller vein of mine and missing half the shot...I thought my heart was going to explode out of my chest. At least some of the half of the solution he shot got in my vein. Just barely enough to not feel sick, so I took over, and got the rest in my vein. Didn't trust him after missing probably 25 out of 30 units. I told him thanks, but I got the other 30 or so units.

[Larkin]

for the sake of disclosure... i didnt read every post. But i tried to work backwards, i havent been clean as long as you have but this has worked for me, so far...

I sort of worked backwards, I would take subs SL, then i shot it a couple times. Whilst at the same time realizing how retarded it was, so i lost the connection betweeen the needle and the satisfaction. I know this wont work cause your on done, but i think if you lose all your sticks, you will break the connection eventually. I know its hard to believe but it will happen. They actually kind of gross me out now. Then i wanted to sniff shit. EVERYTHING i could sniff, i did, lomotil, flexeril, etc. I got nothing, so it wasnt worth it for me. then i took vitamins, which i think def helped in the long run because the fact that i put something in my body daily helped me...

I guess really its just a combo of replacing one addiction with another and also losing the connection with needles/sniffing/eating pills and feeling good. Once the connection is broken, there is no reason to do it.

[Dolofinell]

10-09-2009 12:01 AMLiptonbuddy
I really can't take much more of this mood. I hate to say it, but if this continues for much longer, I may go back to the methadone clinic, only to be on 15 to 20 mgs. Just enough to get juuuuust enough opiate in me to get my motivation back. I don't want it to come to that, but it may have to. At least this time around it would be completely free. Then I wouldn't have to deal with cravings at all.


This is exactly why I believe in endorphin deficiency, Its that anhedoic feeling ( getting very little joy/pleasure in things that people normally do ). This is why Im in no rush at all to get off 'done. Lifer???

[Swellin]

Not trying to hjiack thread, but yesterday i decided to bang some of my morphine something i rarely do, ive done it about 4 times. Now im a complete rookie when it comes to iving but i know the rules my veins all suck so i have to ues my hand. Each time before this ive got it on the first try this time was no exception the problem i have tho is the second i tie off i get so fucking nervous i cant even explain it i stop thinking my heart is beating out of my chest, and im so fucking shaky so i put the needle in right before its about to hit the vein i decide its not close enough to the middle and readjust the second time i hit it see the mushroom cloud of blood i get so fucking excited/even more nervous and fucking forget to release the turny so im looking at the needle and not my vein to make sure the solution is going in its not.. i look down and it looks like my fucking vein just exploded pull needle out blood splurts all fuckin over haha man that scared the shit outa me. Sry for the derail had to tell someone :p

[Papa Verine]

Hey Liptonbuddy,

There's no fuckin way you can return to a healthy mental state by not eating! It's very important to supplement with amino acids, vitamins, minerals, everything when you're trying to get back to feeling good naturally again. I know you said you don't have an appetite but you have to do something about this if you really want to recover.

Does anybody else think this might be contributing to the problem? Am I crazy?

[hydro chris]

everyone is different
but if i started sticking needles filled with nothing into myself
it would make me want a real hit 1000000x worse

**when i used to get real bad cravings for heroin and my doc (coke)
i'd just smoke weed, and listen to gangsta rap, and i'd forget that i wanted anything else** then this would make it 1000001 x worse

it would probably set me back a few spaces, idk i would try not to make
it a habit. congrats on being clean tho, best of luck, take it easy.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

Hey Liptonbuddy,

There's no fuckin way you can return to a healthy mental state by not eating! It's very important to supplement with amino acids, vitamins, minerals, everything when you're trying to get back to feeling good naturally again. I know you said you don't have an appetite but you have to do something about this if you really want to recover.

Does anybody else think this might be contributing to the problem? Am I crazy?

NO PAPA YOU ONE SMART GUY!!!
we're all a little crazy but.....

YES- DEFINITELY NEED TO EAT WELL TO HELP BRAIN RECOVER
If you can eat, maybe some high protein sport mix drinks.
Like the big powered cannisters that BODYBUILDER supplement their 4,000-7,000 calorie a day diets with. At the very least drink a couple of those a day

And, never did this , but was a though while reading-
ACUPUNCTURE??? maybe try giving that a shot, instead of your self?


ok me 2 pennies:)

[Liptonbuddy]

I'm starting to get a tiny bit of my appetite back. I just don't want to over do it. Diabetes runs in my family, and I'm surprised I don't have it already. I cut my sugar intake by about 80%, so that's probably contributing to my rapid weight loss as well, and just the fact that being opiate free has brought my metabolism back from it's opiated snail's crawl.

As each day passes, it seems to get a little better. Yesterday, I actually did 30 minutes of cardio, and some small weight lifting. Did some curls with a 15lb, and some 60lbs benches. First time I exercised in about a year. Well, first time I've done pretty much anything in about a year. Started off super light so I didn't burn my muscles out for the next few days. I'm a weakling compared to what I used to be, but hopefully in time, all will be better health-wise; mental and physical.

[More Feen]

Didn't realise you were not eating well.

Most of your body's natural opiates (endorphins, enkephalins, etc...) are proteins. That means that in order to make those happy proteins, one needs to eat proteins-->amino acids-->endorphins!! (YEAH!! :) )

You don't have to stuff yourself, but try to eat a little every few hours, or so. If you're worried about your sugar levels, just eat less carbos.

M F

[The_Highwayman]

Been there way too many times doin the same thing

[odd]

that was me before every shot i did
but it was excitement more than fear

God I hate that. Sometimes I shake so badly that I cannot hit even the most simple of veins. I try and calm myself down but when I go to hit I just start shaking like crazy. If I do manage to hit, I still end up shaking so much that I knock the rig out or miss. :mad: F'ing sucks.

[rosebud]

Gosh I hate needles. Just reading about this stuff makes me start rubbing my arms and getting all squeamish :-\

+1^^^ And I thank god for that particular lil phobia. I shudder to think the path I may have traveled had I not been so deathly afeared of needles......Likely the same path my brother took (almost destroyed his body and came inches from dying before he gave up the needle and got clean for good almost 6 years ago) and barely survived.

There but for the grace of god go I.....