The bliss is very real

[underide]

I decided to put this in research chemicals, since i don't actually know what chemical(s) are contained in what i'm about to talk about (a lot of googling and speculations though)

A lot of you's have probably heard of different and obscure and also legal research chemicals that can make for some nice drug experiences if you know what to look for and how to find it.

Also, a lot of you folks have probably dealt with the head-shops/"smart"-shops that have sprung out bloody everywhere in recent years.. Well - at least over here they have
And the sometimes ridiculous and overblown claims that the clerks in those shops try to flog their products with...

Anyway - i missed my chance (simply by not being aware of and not caring at the time) to get a few decent products that were being sold at our headshops a few years ago, before they were taken off the shelves for undisclosd reasons

To give a few examples of the products^^^^ i'm talking about - Methylone for one (or coloquially -MDMC) which has a nearly identical molecule structure to that of MDMA and effects, though a bit different and unique from MDMA, is still reportedly a great substance and some novices on the E scene apparently could not even distinguish between it and some good quality molly. Some liked it even better, too - high purity and all...

Also - some (good) 2c-xx family tryptamines that were pretty popular (althogh there's rumours and speculations that some of the 2c- family is still in some of the pills being sold today)

But anyhow - back to today (and hopefully tomorrow :rolleyes:)

There is a product being sold in most of the headshops in our capital, that is absolutely amazing, effect-wise, and I am by FAR not the only fan of it, it seems and appeared out of nowhere it seems quite recently
And i only found out about its' existense and its' splendour less than a few weeks ago.
And to be honest - I'm actually still wired on it now, hence this thread, which looks big enough already, so i will make another post right after this one, so that it's easier for folks to read and comprehend (those with any interest/trust anyway)

So here goes - here's my new love affair in the post just below this one>>>>>>>

[underide]

So just to summarize the previous posts' intention - The substance(s) (or rather a particular product i'm talking about here) is to my liking to say the least, it is relatively cheap (VERY cheap compared to coke) and completely legal, unscheduled over here and probably throughout most of the world, readily availible and easily obtainable in headshops or through mail order.
Oh, and i'm STILL fucking high :p

Some of you may know it and have tried it already - some feedback would be great

The product is called "SNOW" it comes as white/lite-beige powder enclosed into plastic baggies and stapled to the inside of a small booklet
It comes in gram "booklets" as well as half a gram
It has a sour/bittery taste, is a salt (stings like hell when snorted), if put into a container with water, the powder will just sit there on the bottom as is.. once you agitate it and start mixing it, it dissolves fairly rapidly, leaving only the tiniest of traces if at all.
This product can be injected (please be careful with this though as i don't know what it is exactly, just have faint guess), but IV is my preffered ROA with his substance

This products' effect is hard to explain precisely - you really just have to try it
It is almost like the best of the coke/amphet/mdma mix, without the wabbly, threshold seisure intensity of the coke, but still just as stron on the mind
It is EUPHORIC like MDMA, but not as intense, and no face morphing, teeth chattering, although a fair bit of jaw grinding
It is not as edgy as speed but it gives you so much confidence and drive
It lasts a looong time (compared to someone having to do coke shots, you can start off with one, it does not come on as strong as coke or gear or even morphine IV, but within a minute of injecting you ca feel a steady build of absolute euphoria, then wait about 40minutes-1hr, and you'd stilll be feeling your shot, and then you can do another one and feel even better
You can still be lucid and productive on it no matter how much of it you've done, but you will definitely look a bit out of it, but i find that hydration and frequent face-washing makes you look almost as normal as sober
The ability to get on with everyday task while on this stuff and still get away with it, reminds me of a nice opiate euphoria potentiated by a stimulant

There is a crash though, but one shot lasts a long time, and a 1gram bag could last you whole day/night after which you will be feeling worn out but for me not nearly as bad as an IV coke/amphet session
It does seem to vary though - a mate of mine does not like stims, so he was bitching about the crash half of the next day. Downers obviously help, especially if you're not tolerant
I had actually told my mate that thestuff was a light psychedelic, since he doesn't like stims, but once that shot dissapeared into his arm, about 5 minutes later he was literally on cloud nine, as i could tell, and kept begging for more
Hydration of your insides and washing up is essential to have an easier time, and last week i got away with a 6 hour shift at work, with a gram bag in my pocket, i would disapear for a quick one once every hour, and then after work

it does make you very social and approachable - there's also the MDA/MDMA'ish sort of love buzz for all the humanity but less pronounced

Bear in mind though - this is just your typical trip report, and only my opinion and experience and i happen to like the combination/moderation of the SNOW's effects and love how they seem to come together PERFECTLY

I have been doing this stuff since 6 pm - i got about 7-8 shots out of the gram and ther is a last shot wating for me right by the keyboard

To say it bluntly - I bloody love this stuff, but you may disagree when you try, although i REALLY doubt that you will be disappointed with the esperience
And although i know i'll be feeling shitty in a few hours, i wil still get some sleep, like i always do on this stuff (after the crash)
I'll eat some more benzo's in the morning and maybe have a beer or two

What puzzles me is what inside this brilliant "SNOW". Nobody seems to have a clue. One clerk told me it's a combination of TWO active substances in this product, but which ones, no one seems to know - only try and google and guess

^^^At the bottom of the pack it gives a list of ingredients: vitamin c, creatine, magnesium, amino acid blend(and i wonder which one) dextrose monohydrate, vitamin e, caffeine, herbal blends(again - which ones?) , hoodia, minerals

It also says that this is a "Novelty Bath salt" and that it's "Not for human consumption"

And in bold print right in the back center it reads "A very invigorating bath salt. Just add some into the mix to get you pepped up, chatty, and hopefully laid...For best results, make sure your bath :) has plenty of fluid, and keep heavy macinery out of the bathroom"

So there you go - here's my new avorite weekend pastime, and it's great and totally legal. (For now - i have a sneaky suspicion its gonna get scheduled soon - too many HAPPY customers


And once again - this i just from my own personal experience, and although i find the IV route the most fulfilling, i would not advise anyone else to inject it.

If you haven't heard of this stuff, get it while you can, even if you're not into stims, it's very unique - but that's only my personal advise.

And those who have done "SNOW" - it would be great to get some feedback here of what it's like for you.

ENJOY ;)

And i have a last train to catch... and i just know it will be an exhilarating ride

[underide]

Sorry for the drawn out posts - i am nicely toasted and just have an itch for sharing that i feel like scratching, before i take this last shot for the night...

Here's a link to a site that shows what it looks like :



And there are a number of other sites you can order from
the price seems to be the same everywhere - 30euro a g (about 40 USD or 25 British Pounds)
Personally, I think it's worth a try.

Anyhow - away I go :)

[Opiyum]

With a name like snow and stuff like that written on the package your probably right about it getting scheduled soon. It's interesting to me that no one seems to know the active ingredient. I would think if it was sold in the US it would have to because of the FDA but I dont know much about that.
What ever it is it sounds awesome and your someone who I trust and I trust that it is enjoyable as you say.
I was surprised to hear that there is a crash involved. To me that means it has to be something pretty damn good. What is the crash similar too? Is it mostly physical or is more like a gotta have more coke crash?

Is the typical ROA IV or is that just you? If it is to only be IVed that may help it not get scheduled because of most peoples fear of needles and the stigma attached to IV drug use.

Anyhow. Glad your having such a good time. I wish I was in that state of mind right now.

[Larry]

It sounds like mephedrone

Your not from the US right?

[underide]

. What is the crash similar too? Is it mostly physical or is more like a gotta have more coke crash?

Is the typical ROA IV or is that just you? If it is to only be IVed that may help it not get scheduled because of most peoples fear of needles and the stigma attached to IV drug use.

Anyhow. Glad your having such a good time. I wish I was in that state of mind right now.

Thanks, unfortunately that's it for the night.

The crash seems to vary from person to person as far as i know
I've also just upped my daily benzo intake, plus i always take a few Z sleepers after the last shot so it might be easier for me to deal with it than it would be for someone who's not using long-acting downers (diazepam in my case)

The crash is like a mix of light-amphet and MDMA but not as intense and I do crave it once it's all gone in almost the same way as with coke - once again, just not as pronounced
It's definitely best to do it one day and leave it for a while, because last week i did a two-day marathon, and byt the end of the second day i could feel a pretty damn heavy bodyload and dysphoria, even with benzo's and sleepers
So i guess it is both - physical and mental

The ROA was just me following the lead - i was around IV coke users...and having tried snorting it, i definitely see that it just goes so much further
But like i say - even thou i love it now, i have no clue how harmful it can actually be slammed - i have slammed close to something like 1/6th of a gram of this stuff, and still did not feel any seizure-like shakes you get from slamming amphet and coke - the way you wobble right after a coke/amph shot or even shake or take a fit - this actually feels pretty safe...but better safe than sorry... No ringing in your ears, just a very comfortable numbness coming from your belly and up your spine, somewhat like H only in an 'upper' kinda way
I just figure i'm gonna do it for about a month and quit anyway - NEED to get off the benzo's
A couple of weeks ago i did some methamph and after it was gone i was craving coke, so i tried to get it of my contact - he's out of the country - i started asking around the flats (projects) whether anyone had any coke, and i met this middle aged couple, obviously into drugs, and they tell me, "listen, mate, forget about coke...go to a headshop and ask for snow, and you will be satisfied"
I kinda just brushed it off though and was still on the lookout for coke
Found some the next day. A day after or something outside the clinic someone overheard me talking about coke how shit it is withoutthe best dealer in town. this lad that was standing around just said- get some "SNOW", it's better than coke...
Still didn't believe it, but decided to check it out anyway - bought a half gram and was so pleasantly surprised...
I had NO idea :)

[duck]

Sorry for the drawn out posts - i am nicely toasted and just have an itch for sharing that i feel like scratching, before i take this last shot for the night...

Here's a link to a site that shows what it looks like :

http://www.nirvanaheadshop.com/snow-1g.html

And there are a number of other sites you can order from
the price seems to be the same everywhere - 30euro a g (about 40 USD or 25 British Pounds)
Personally, I think it's worth a try.

Anyhow - away I go :)

I have been laughing my fucking ass off from the "user reviews" on that link....they all sound like they're from the UK....

Did some "snow" and was very impressed,

up for a whole day..kinda speedy buzz, felt a bit randy to be honest

Man, This stuff is crazy! I'd have 2 - 4 lines before I go out on the tiles and I'd chat, dance, sing and shag all night! (if I had the opportunity)

Id hockey a line of proper stuff any day over this!!

lmao god I love stuff like this.

[underide]

It sounds like mephedrone

Your not from the US right?

someone on another forum has suggested methedrone/4-MMC and a bunch of other related stuff

So i did research methedrone, and the description of it doesn't quite match, but it could be
Like one of the hed-shop clerks said, there's apparently two active ingredients that make it so special
and it does feel like there's stages of it coming up on you

Still don't know though - someone NEEDS to analyze this stuff... I just hope it won't be the WHO or the DEA or someone similar. Although they probably already did

I live in Ireland

[dieselbaby]

It sounds like mephedrone

Your not from the US right?

Yes, it is most definitely mephedrone. Be careful with this shit. As great as it sounds, it has a huge reputation for being extremely addictive and potentially neurotoxic. I would definitely read this thread for some more information: How Toxic Is Mephedrone? (bluelight.ru) (http://bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=439578)

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

seriuosly. you are banging unkown substance to brain and will for next month to get of of habit with known substance???:confused:

what did I miss?

"someone NEEDS to analyze this stuff... I just hope it won't be the WHO or the DEA or someone similar." :D:D:D


yes lets make it ez fer them
report back findings

[Indy]

Yeah i don't know if i would inject an unknown substance if i were you, especially if it contains anything "herbal". Especially with "minerals" in it. I don't know, though.

[underide]

seriuosly. you are banging unkown substance to brain and will for next month to get of of habit with known substance???:confused: what did I miss?

I'm not sure, man..:confused:

Maybe youre "missing" most of what i was talking about, the intention of the thread (i.e - not promoting it but rather describing the experience)
and most importantly - you've missed being exactly where I was on this stuff yesterday.
Not that you would give a damn anyway, i'm sure -and that is fine by me, man
But maybe you simply misunderstood me.

Also - i'm not trying to "get off of habit with known substance" (you mean benzo's?)
I may have misunderstood you there thou, tbh
I'm not trying to use it to get off of ANYTHING - i'm just chasing a buzz while trying to share MY own experience with it and that is what i said and meant, bro
Also what i meant by chasing this buzz for the month, i meant that i'm intending to stay on benzo's for the duration of this month (before switching back to Zopiclone for a taper so i can keep my takehomes)

And I certainly doubt i'd like to be using this stuff while tapering downers.
That's what i meant - maybe i wasn't clear enough, i don't know (or maybe you just plain dont like me or my "style"?? :p ;) )
That's fine though

Once again - i never intended to promote the stuff (especially for IV even thou that's what I like best) or feel like i'm playing russian roulette with this (though i won't deny that i could be), and I was told this suff is injectable from the get-go, so i went that route simply to get most out of it - it is just more euphoric that way (at least for me)

Once I did try the stuff - I thought if felt a lot safer (a mate of mine agrees on that fully) to be banging this stuff rather than street coke and amphetamines. But i'm NOT claiming that it IS safe, i'm just saying I, personally, feel it is SAFER than the aforementioned stims... and ofcourse, in the longrun, I might be wrong. But i like the high better than both coke and speed, and that's probably the main reason for all the excitement on my part in this tread last night.

Every time i IV'd coke, I would usually start to lose balance/coordination pretty much right from right away, and start to shake and feel on the threshold of seizure almost every time I did it, but that said the strong euphoric bang you get from coke used to overpower all fear in me and I would do an even bigger shot right afterwards, even though I feel like i'm gonna take a fit. It just makes me not care about the consequenses while banging it.
Also, a while ago i've shot up methamphetamine, and it DID actually give me a proper seizure and landed me in hospital...I've thrashed around the place very violently and almost forgot how to breathe before I passed out still shaking (apparently)

With the stuff i'm talking about in this thread, which i have done a fair number of times by now (still only the past 3 weeks though and at most 2-3 times per week) and I feel no after-injection shakes I get on coke and amphs, nor did I ever feel like i'm gonna have a fit on SNOW even after rather large shots, but at the same time i get a major euphoric buzz that just keeps getting stronger and the unique effects of this product is what I love.

And yes - I probably don't know the full implications of what i'm doing, and this morning i did feel pretty damn shitty alright, (especially befopre dosing on phy+benzo's) but still i'm doing it and just going with my gut that it is safe enough - and again - not trying to promote it to anyone, just describing it and saying that it might be worth a try for others who are interested, before it possibly disappears like methylone did a couple of years ago.


Yeah i don't know if i would inject an unknown substance if i were you, especially if it contains anything "herbal". Especially with "minerals" in it. I don't know, though.

I don't know man, it could well be that the majority if not almost all of the ingredients they list, are other made up or plain non-existant in this product.
And i have it might well be too that the by "herbal blend", they actually mean the the active (or possibly two active ingridients like i was told.
They did it before with BZP here - they just not listed it on the package there, and instead listed similar type 'vitamines, minerals, etc.' crap just like they do on most packs of their products and could well have (in my opinion) just made the listed ingredients up, although probably not.

In any case - If there are in fact the EXACT ingredients in it 9and they definitely left out the active chemical(s), I don't feel like i did much damage over the course of 3 weeks of banging the stuff

But you you might have a point and might well be right
this product was on the scene not that long, and maybe there is some health issues that are bound to come up later.. (but again - i'm going with previous experiences of other drugs compared to this and basically going with my gut on this. You might think i'm stupid, but i think i have done much worse things to my body (not that it's any type of excuse)

Apreciate the concern, though

Yes, it is most definitely mephedrone. Be careful with this shit. As great as it sounds, it has a huge reputation for being extremely addictive and potentially neurotoxic. I would definitely read this thread for some more information: How Toxic Is Mephedrone? (bluelight.ru) (http://bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=439578)

I would not be so sure if I were you (without an ACTUAL chemical analysis - unless you do have one?), and would not jump to conclusions
But there were a few people who said they suspected what you have just stated - i.e it being Mephedrone

I was very eager to find out what was in the stuff once I've tried it and did a good bit of googling and searched for trip reports on it and related compounds in its' "chemical family" (if that makes any sense)
And for the most part "SNOW" seems to have different effects to what most report on mephedrone.

I also would not be surprised if the one clerk at the shop who told me there was a blend of TWO active chemicals in "SNOW", was actually right..
I really don't know, i guess mephedrone could be one part of it, if that is actually the case
Ther really is no certain way for me to know

But having looked up mephedrone and it's derivatives/relative compounds, i found that there are quite a lot obscure and unscheduled, psychoactive chemicals with similar, better or just plain different effects to those of mephedrone ans some of its' related chemicals
Any one of those could be in "SNOW", is what i'm thinking, or something else entirely - also a possibility

The general consensus is a bit confusing, since some report 'this' while others report 'that'

So i'm not ruling it out, and you may well be right with your statement, but i'm also thinking it could be anything BUT mephedrone, but possibly related to it

I wish i knew more about chemistry, but like most of the people here and on the other drug-related boards, I can only google, read up, then guess and speculate and learn the very basic of things
and then compare it to my ACTUAL experience

And in the end - i guess it's not THAT important what's in it...If you like it you like it (or even LOVE it) if you don't, you don't - but sorry for pointing out the obvious.

Thanks for the link though - interesting reading nonetheless.

[jacky]

please remove that link that is direct to a vendors page....


the problem with substances like this is that who knows what is in there.

a few years ago I was suspicious of a supposed pure crystalline powder that was apparently a blue lilly extract.
I pretty much knew it was bullshit before I recieved a few samples of the product...mainly based on prior knowledge of the claimed starting material....a lily flower petal.
the price was so low...and usually only sugar and other food product commodities are going to be that cheap for an extracted pure gram of material.

I never consumed the product...and still have it today. I got it to help with any vendor busting that needed to be done.
the company that sold it was from europe....it seems even with the USA being blamed for everyone elses drug problems, that the european companies especially are prone to making non descript combinations of material and claiming that they are something else. also add to that the recent adulterations of spiking smoking blends with research chemicals, and or pharmaceuticals being substituted for kratom etc etc.
anyway.....I contacted the company and let them know that a chemist tested their extract, and found it to contain NO blue lily that he could tell.
so they took it off the catalog, and claimed they were duped by an unscrupulous vendor. they also sent me some blue lily essential oil to make up.
well, the company is back to selling that shit. I have no idea what it is...possibly its cut tramadol or something...I do not know.

really, anyone who knows anything about ethnobotany, would have figured just from looking at the material, knowing prices on materials, that it as a scam. the company owners must be busy doing something else,...or simply not care that they are selling some scam product.

of course this would happen when the research chemical bust went down a few years ago.

its hard to tell what is in these packets of herbs/supplements.
we already know that to bolster the effectiveness of their products...that vendors are slipping in secret psychoactives to catch $$

its a scam.

I would be suspicious of any head shop herbal blend, smoking or not now.

I think the good old days of poisonous non consumable materials, being only labeled for their correct scientific classification, were the best. I HATE these smoking blends that dont label ingredients.
and ANY supplement in the USA or Europe must label all ingredients for the most part...unless we are talking about food flavorings/spices that are proprietary.

that is great that you have found an effective stimulant...the problem is...what the fuck is it?
that is what I hate about these blends.
its unscientific...and a waste of researchers time to research something like that, beyond controlled blind trials.

over at entheogen.com we decided that no vendor can hawk their items without full disclosure of ingredients.
I am making that same rule right now here...
if there is no known ingredients....if the product is a suspect head shop creation that we really cannot trust...ANY branded product that is for non consumption, consumption, smoking blend etc...
cannot be named here.
you can talk about the product....BUT PLEASE...NO BRAND NAMES.

you can talk about ingredients sure....but NO BRAND names please.

what happens is one person starts hawking shit for a vendor that gives them free stuff...and soon the whole forum is a hodge podge of advertising for companies that usually are out to rip people off, or slip them some research chemical and call it all natural and good.

things at entheogen.com have declined to the point that I swear something dodgy is going on. I dont really care anymore, because there is nothing that I can do to preserve that website.
but as this is my website...I will NOT allow any branding of this crap to go on here.

I know this rule has not be in place yet really....I didnt think smoking blends and random pill/powder packets would be much of a discussion here.

and to be fair, I have taken plenty of time to discuss them myself...but only as a debate/discussion of how I think this type of marketing sucks.

maybe if these companies were going to pay our bills and support me personally with advertising funds to the tune of 3000-5000$ a month I might change my mind.
and even then I would hate to do it....I would just be financially forced to consider it.
and besides...that is a jack off statement in the first place. ha ha.

its fine for people to discuss their experiences....if the ingredient label is listed, and unique enough, you will still be able to get your point across...but I want NO BRAND NAMES discussed AT ALL.

if we dont...soon some jackass will start selling kratom/tramadol powder here and make more money off this website in a month than I have in 5 years.

I wish the old research chem scene was still up and running in the USA.
you got what you paid for 99% of the time.

there was no branding either....it was just compounds sold for what they are.

thanks for your time.

[Papa Verine]

Wow, this is an interesting thread. Thanks Underride and Jacky, I didn't know much about this topic at all.

Deisel baby, I wonder why it is you seemed so sure the described product was Methadrone?

(I'm off to google methadrone)

[underide]

please remove that link that is direct to a vendors page....

the problem with substances like this is that who knows what is in there.



I would remove the vendor's link if i could, Jacky, but i cannot edit my posts so if you or any other mods could do it, please do

And I do apologize if putting that link infringes on some rules here or is simply not a good idea for the reasons you've mentioned above

The vendor is actually an Irish one (they have a chain of head-shops over here) and I've never personally dealt with them through the net, but have frequented their stores to buy the product that I was talking about in this thread.

The only reason I have put up the link up there was to give people a visual idea of what the product looks like, but (especially) at the time of making the thread, i honestly did not think that it was inapropriate to mention the actual name of that product - for which i also apologize


I guess the main reasons they (head-shops/vendors) do not list the active ingridients in products like those (as well as stating that the products are "not for human consumption") is to try and circumvent the laws here and use the so-called grayarea of "(im)proper labeling" to their advantage, and you're totally right - ofcourse it is all about the money.

But at the time of making the thread I was just pretty damn wired and just plain excited by its' significant psychoactive effects
It was good while it lasted, until the crash, but i'm sure i'll be back up there again..


But once again - my apologies for anything you consider inapropriate in this thread
And do feel free to delete the whole thread altogeteher - no hard feelings


EDIT: just from a recent update - mephedrone does sound a bit more compelling by this stage, but still - any solid proof??

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

UNDERIDE- GOOD god man, lighten up there a bit.
Nothing at you just respect, love and concern.
Your NOVEL length posts are a bit hard to follow
and YES we all caught the love yer was feeling
but:

"I just figure i'm gonna do it for about a month and quit anyway - NEED to get off the benzo's"

that kind of where I got me concern
AND STATEMENT

okay carry on :)

[jacky]

Hey Underide....that is no problem

sorry about the edit problem.....I take it for advantage that I know what I am talking about when it comes to the software functions around here...
I had the same problem over at entheogen.com when I was asked to edit my posts in the salvia forum.

its not that you really infringed on any rules here....at least yet...heh heh.

anyway Underide....my reaction to your post isnt meant to punish you for anything.
it merely was the first post that really made me consider that I need to make a rule against such products.

I checked out our user agreement and forum rules around here...and there isnt anything specifically that touches on the no sources rule that isnt so clearly presented here at opiophile.

so I am posing a new rule for the forum rules.
its pretty selective....no brand names...no sources please.

scientific names...and to a degree, slang names, folk names, especially of plant materials is allowed.

what I dont want to do...is become a place where people discuss certian materials or blends of psychoactives to someone elses benefit...brand names are out.
you can still discuss your experiences with any supplement or other legal material....depending on your country and or state...but we should really try and leave out sources.

this doesnt include medicines/pharmaceuticals that people have licit reason to use. including cannabis in applicable areas.

if a company has a really unique blend of ingredients, and they are listing the full ingredients, at least for a time, people wont need to know a brand name to know what you are talking about.

entheogen.com made a move along time ago to stop this type of marketing. they have been mostly successful. that website is still pretty lenient it seems....and if the full ingredients of a smoke blend are divulged, then they allow discussion in their vendors forum, at least when attributed to a brand name.....but, the catch is, you cannot talk about psychoactivity in the vendors forum.
and in the other forums where you can talk about psychoactivity at entheogen.com....you cannot mention brand names.
it keeps people from violating most companys liability statement in the same post that they want to talk about consuming a substance sold for non consumption generally. if its a smoke blend, the laws are different regarding consumption...the FDA isnt applicable...well,..maybe unless its a prerolled smoke.....
so in a way.
I think opiophile is going to need to do some of the same now

personally I have nothing against grey area materials, research chems, etc. personally...I like headshops, and I dont have a problem with people marketing materials with brand names.
but...
I AM against people selling any material without fully divulging contents...especially if those materials are going to get consumed.
companies/individuals that make a smoke blend, or legal high, sell it as a totally natural sourced herbal smoke blend, or as a supplement, or non consumption incense/etc, and then adulterate that material with a research chem, or drug, that is hidden from the public...
that shit is going to have some bad mojo for even possibly the entheogen/ethnobotany community.
that is what I am working against here.

thanks for being cool underride, Ill look into editing your post without fucking anything up.

anybody have objections? any thoughts?

[hovadagod]

Makes sense Jacky. I hate the forums that make you wonder if someone is being paid to post like...half of the posts on the forum. It's great that there is none of that shit here. Keeps shit real.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

HEY JACKIE - sounds like GREAT idea
Nice to see you taking such an active role here!!!