The LSD "Family"

[hovadagod]

So what are your thoughts on this. I would imagine the older members know more about it. I tried to make a poll that would cover how people feel about the family but please post your feelings because the poll is admitedly weak.

[Eric5989]

I thought there was a bunch of different families

[tao2]

ummm... I think I know what you may be getting at... but, then again, maybe not. I mean, like, WHICH family? 'Cause like, well, you know... Perhaps you could try to clarify a bit?

Please excuse my random mutterings here. Perhaps I should clarify a bit myself. :)

[nick]

Rainbow,dead,manson,addams.......which family are you talking about?

More fun to talk about the brotherhood anyway.

[hovadagod]

I don 't know much about it. The family that was supposedly behind white fluff LSD. The chemists names were Sand, Scully, and Owsely. They produced most of the acid for dead tour (supposedly). I found a link with a little info but nothing that is really trusworthy.

http://forums.mycotopia.net/misc-entheogens/1589-crystal-blotter-lsd.html

[nick]

I don 't know much about it. The family that was supposedly behind white fluff LSD. The chemists names were Sand, Scully, and Owsely. They produced most of the acid for dead tour (supposedly). I found a link with a little info but nothing that is really trusworthy.

http://forums.mycotopia.net/misc-entheogens/1589-crystal-blotter-lsd.html

It's not a family,but these guys made acid or were the house chemist for the brotherhood.Also known as the eternal brotherhood of the golden dawn.

You might want to checkout Stark and Kemp as well.

EDIT,they're a fascinating group and well worth checking out.Look out for a guy called John Griggs(the song farmer john is dedicated to him)

[hovadagod]

This is different than the christian Family right? Do you have any good links nick?

This http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brotherhood_of_Eternal_Love ???

[nick]

This is different than the christian Family right? Do you have any good links nick?

I'm afraid not.I have a book a pretty good book about the brotherhood and a friend who,how shall we say,had connections with them.

I'll post details of the book shortly.

[hovadagod]

This is the same thing as COG?!?!?!?!?!

[nick]

This is the same thing as COG?!?!?!?!?!

I only know one COG and they work on artificial intelligence,if that's who you mean, there's no link I know of.

[hovadagod]

Children of God. The Family.

Jeff Sharlet wrote a book about this group. Can't be the same as the brotherhood you're talking about, can it?

[nick]

Children of God. The Family.

Jeff Sharlet wrote a book about this group. Can't be the same as the brotherhood you're talking about, can it?

No link what so ever.

EDIT,much apologies,bro.I got my freaks mixed up.It's the brotherhood of eternal love you are talking about.

The book is the brotherhood of eternal love.from flower power to hippie mafia by Tendler and May.

[marshalldylan1]

Here is a really good thread from a guy who use to be associated with one of the "families" back when the Grateful Dead were still touring. Pretty interesting stuff right here.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1427364/fpart/1/vc/1

On a side note: I had some of the best blotter I've ever had at this years Rothbury Music Festival. The people we were camped right next to had a couple of sheets. He said he was with the "family" from San Fran. They claimed it to be 100mics, which SHOULD be the standard dose(nowadays most are anywhere from 30-70). I took what he said with a grain of salt cause everyone at a festival claims to have the best shit.

Well, be bought a tenner for 65$. I wanted to just test it for the 1st night. So, my buddy and I only took 1 each. It fucking rocked my world! I have tripped numerous times, but something about that L was different. So clean, so visual, no bad thoughts at all during it, SUPER STRONG.

I'll never know for sure if they were with the family, but they said they got it when the Dead announced they were going back on tour from some older heads in San Fran. Definetly some of the best LSD I've ever had.

[hovadagod]

Thanks guys.

So whose the membeR?????

[digby]

There were a bunch of small families that took root during the 60's in San Francisco and a couple of large ones. Those were the days of acid gurus, each of which had a small family associated with them. Timothy Leary had his group that ended up in the Milbrook area, and there was a very large group that rented the Filmore West one night for a private affair with the Grateful Dead taking on the musical chores. I don't know if this was the "family" that you were referring to, but Owsley supplied all the acid and there was some guy with long brown hair blowing a conch shell or horn or something that was there supposed leader. I don't know any more about that group as I just got an invite from a friend and didn't belong to that circle. I beleive that is the same group that packed up into buses and moved east somewhere but am not sure.

In those days, plain blue Owsleys went for a dollar or two and the best 1000 mic+ doses of purest acid on sugar cubes went for $5 if you had a decent connect and almost all of it came from Owsley.

There were some other small families that ran hotels and stores in the Haight. Many of those smaller groups ended when their main people got busted or even deported in one case that I knew of.

[marshalldylan1]

Yeah in the late 90's or early 00's there was the Picard bust where the guy had a silo full of the ergot. He had enough doses to supply all of america two hits each. When that happened a lot of the families freaked out and got rid of their ergot.

And the member in that thread was chinacat whoever asked.

[hovadagod]

A milssile silo I think, right?

http://www.missilebases.com/

[SHELLEY]

wow i have no idea what any of this means

[Duckfeet]

I heard more groups around San Francisco called "The Family." Always seemed a sort of elitist thing, to me...in those days, anybody with a little charisma, usually a bit older, would gather around tons of wannabe hippies and runaways, and call them "The Family." Christians did it, Charlie Manson did it, Steven Gaskin did it... "Brotherhood of Eternal Love," did it, and yeah, Owsley and Keasy and Leary and some others them made some bucks, got some fame, etc...and another family came down south from Detroit, called themselves the STP Family, and were a bunch of raggedy streets hustlers...And I've met and hung out with longtime members of the Rainbow Family, and on and on it goes...but mostly, now, it seems just a big old scam, kind of like the Hare Krishnas and these idiots about ten years or so ago who cut their own nuts off and comitted mass suicide..."The Family." I guess I've just never been much of a "family" kind of guy...

[jo-jo]

wow i have no idea what any of this means

I'm glad I'm not the only one!

[digby]

I heard more groups around San Francisco called "The Family." Always seemed a sort of elitist thing, to me...in those days, anybody with a little charisma, usually a bit older, would gather around tons of wannabe hippies and runaways, and call them "The Family." Christians did it, Charlie Manson did it, Steven Gaskin did it... "Brotherhood of Eternal Love," did it, and yeah, Owsley and Keasy and Leary and some others them made some bucks, got some fame, etc...and another family came down south from Detroit, called themselves the STP Family, and were a bunch of raggedy streets hustlers...And I've met and hung out with longtime members of the Rainbow Family, and on and on it goes...but mostly, now, it seems just a big old scam, kind of like the Hare Krishnas and these idiots about ten years or so ago who cut their own nuts off and comitted mass suicide..."The Family." I guess I've just never been much of a "family" kind of guy...

I don't know Duck...that outlook feels a bit jaded even to me, and I tend to get downright hostile over some of the con jobs masquerading as "more enlightened family groups". Some of the groups took advantage of people, others did not. I guess that new age family unit was more easily subscribed to if the family unit that you came from was hell on earth, but still some chose to lick their wounds in private rather than join one.

As far as being elitist, many of them were less elitist than those choosing to live alone out of isolation and the inability to live and work communally. But some certainly were elitist, and I guess we always have those groups of individuals with us. Still, to my way of thinking, that period of time opened a lot of people's thinking to group rather than simply individual consciousness and that wasn't necessarily a bad thing.

[lotus]

i don't know what to vote for.....

there are only so many producers, so chances are yes?

i did a lot of acid in the early/mid 90's. standard sale $5/hit, far as we understood it was coming up from california, except for this shit "b.c redline" from b.c.....with cheezy little christmas things on them.....was really good REAlly clean acid tho......all of it was stamp'd blotter.

anyways, mcg - i really couldn't say....i thought it was around 250 per but who knows.

closer you got to mid/late 90's, the couple times i did it, it sucked. noticed a lot of copy cat shit too - stamps that in the early 90's had been insane were just bullshit. not to mention the later in time i went, the more much of it seem'd to be really dirty.....lots of mini peaks from high to stone cold sober and back, not cool vibes the whole way round (people seem'd to swing bad on much of it......) and the gut raunch that would follow with that shit just wasn't right...

[Duckfeet]

You're right: it wasn't a very thoughtful post, mostly just old grouch mixed with a bit of showing off...some of the groups seemed kind, and some were kind, some of the time...and the truth is, to me, everybody I met from the Rainbow Family and Steven Gaskin's group up in Tennessee were nice people...I was way overgeneralizing just to be cute...stand corrected.

And even tho I wasn't very enlightened: I was in the army during the tail end of it, and being in the military was as uncool as could be, back then, so maybe it's just my old biases showing, because like most enlisted men I met, we wanted so badly to get out of the army and be part of the whole thing...I did my first acid in San Francisco while on leave, and some local guitar player who had a big old house in the black section of Filmore took me in, and was nice as could be to me...mostly I just felt like I didn't fit in, and went back to Vietnam...

I was already a heroin addict, I believe and was kicking during this time a bit, but wasn't real aware of that being the problem...but yep, you're correct, I was posting about something I don't really know much about, and maligning lots of people in the process...and all those I mentioned, followers of this and that, were actually nice to me, even tho I was a short-haired uncool g.i.: nobody was ever mean, or called me names, tho I think some felt sorry for me, since I was headed back to an unpopular war. I wanted to be a hippy, and have a girlfriend, not be a soldier anymore.

I don't know Duck...that outlook feels a bit jaded even to me, and I tend to get downright hostile over some of the con jobs masquerading as "more enlightened family groups". Some of the groups took advantage of people, others did not. I guess that new age family unit was more easily subscribed to if the family unit that you came from was hell on earth, but still some chose to lick their wounds in private rather than join one.

As far as being elitist, many of them were less elitist than those choosing to live alone out of isolation and the inability to live and work communally. But some certainly were elitist, and I guess we always have those groups of individuals with us. Still, to my way of thinking, that period of time opened a lot of people's thinking to group rather than simply individual consciousness and that wasn't necessarily a bad thing.

[digby]

That's what I've always admired about your posts DF. You seem to have an unfettered sense of humility and are not afraid you admit an inconsistency. A wealth of life experience seems to have left its mark on you and made you the wiser for it. That to me is not an insignificant gift.

[30_Units]

My experiences with people claiming to be from the rainbow family have been less than stellar. Be that they were simply that-claiming to be a part of it, or whether some/many/most of them were like the guys I met. Totally about preaching enlightenment through acid, yet still selling (and doing copious amounts of) cocaine and fake acid/DOx's-basically being that hippy scum that will deride you for enjoying a drug like heroin while they rack up another line and continue to call around about selling salt-cut molly.

Meh-but people are people. Whether they were connected to anything or just trying to act big and bad, it doesn't really matter-I'm sure there are some Tibetan monks that are real assholes too, but I wouldn't make the generalization about Tibetan monks being skeezy. Individuals claiming to be whatever can really fuck up perceptions about whatever they're claiming to be.

[hovadagod]

Ok...so when I hear about "rainbow acid" this is acid produced by the rainbow family. (I don't expect to find it).

[30_Units]

Not to mention how everyone you buy acid from "knows the guy who synthed it/layed it/whatever man, and these are totally 200mic hits of fluff!!1-totally worth ten bucks a hit with no breaks on strips!"

/grumble

[hovadagod]

ALways white flufff...even when it;s toilet paper.

[Duckfeet]

I think the history of this time and some of these groups, such as it is, tho, is fascinating. Even guys like me, who weren't really "part of it," felt like we were changing the world, that youth ruled, sex came out of the various closets it had been in, hair grew long, we knew our parents and their tight-assed warmongering ways were all fucked up, and man we had good music coming out of everywhere.

The world didn't change all that much, I guess, not in fundamental ways, but it was a time when at least it seemed like all the old walls were tumbling down. The various "families" mentioned were indicators that we believed we could escape the old ways of being...escape our families of origin and all their fucked up ways, escape the repressive bullshit our parents had attempted to indoctrinate us with, and do drugs and get layed and be happy...was a nice dream, until, like Hunter Thompson said, the tide rolled back. I'm glad I was alive then.

[hovadagod]

I wish I was...

[Dan Steely]

wow i have no idea what any of this means

Yeah don't feel bad Shelley, I've been around this scene for over 20 years and I'm still not sure what it means. I always just took the term to mean the group of heads that were perpetually at the shows and on the lot that all knew each other and had some connections to the band and crew. I could be all wrong. I never really put a whole lot of stock into the claims but then again there has been a good degree of consistency to the l that was claimed to be of fam origin and it's availability did seem to coincide with upcoming tours. Usually white fluff that was weak but very good and some liquid with the same qualities. Great stuff but it takes three hits to get me very trippy which is fine by me cause it's cheap anyway. I'm just glad that good stuff is still around. I don't go to a lot of shows anymore but when I do I like to trip.

[hovadagod]

I just realized it isn't rainbow acid that I heard of....sunshine! duh.

DS...That's the question. What is the family? Was it really a structured group or just a bunch of hippies? And what role did LSD production play in the structure of this so called family?

[bodytec]

you would have to hold me down and force a hit of 'sid into my mouth for me to take it
around '98 i tripped a lot in college
and the last several times i did so were "bad" trips
it seemed like one side of my brain was at war with the other side
i got so extremely down on myself for every mistake i had made
then the very last time i had the sort of spiritual bad trip
i thought i had for sure awakened/called demons around me and was sure they wanted my soul
why was this,i'll never know
but something on this thread made me think it might have been BAD acid
we were getting the green and red plastic ,"gels" they called them
then some guy came around with a dropper bottle of liquid
we copmplained twice that it hadn't hit us yet(we tripped the noght before) and the guy basically sqirted a stream into our mouths!
that one wasn't so bad as the last few times
but i was just wondering if anyone else always has bad trips only,now

[hovadagod]

I got to the point where shrooms were always bad after taking them like 30 times. I would constantly focus on the negative aspects like the stomach ache. Also focused on the shit that I felt guilty for. Bad stuff. I'd be at a show dancing around but thinking about the problems I have with my family. hahaha.

I had a half bad trip my third time taking acid. I cut open and licked the inside of a dropper bottle. There was also a drop left in the actual litter dropper device that you can find in the top of a visine bottle. I bit the dropper and the last, strong ass drop came out. Maybe more.

So I would up alone and I couldnt find anything that I could do that would allow me to not freak out. All my friends were totally drunk and on speed and shit and I thought they were crazy. Until finally that flipped and I started thinking taht I was teh crazy one. Some other bad shit happened that night before I started freakiung out but eventually I woke a friend and went on a walk and felt better.

It was the end of the trip. I kind of felt grounded but I was still freaking out. I needed a benzo I think.

[Opiyum]

I think the history of this time and some of these groups, such as it is, tho, is fascinating. Even guys like me, who weren't really "part of it," felt like we were changing the world, that youth ruled, sex came out of the various closets it had been in, hair grew long, we knew our parents and their tight-assed warmongering ways were all fucked up, and man we had good music coming out of everywhere.

The world didn't change all that much, I guess, not in fundamental ways, but it was a time when at least it seemed like all the old walls were tumbling down. The various "families" mentioned were indicators that we believed we could escape the old ways of being...escape our families of origin and all their fucked up ways, escape the repressive bullshit our parents had attempted to indoctrinate us with, and do drugs and get layed and be happy...was a nice dream, until, like Hunter Thompson said, the tide rolled back. I'm glad I was alive then.
__________________I think the only thing that made the 60's so special was that it was the beginning of something new.
Of course I wasn't there and all I know of are the stories that people like you (DF) talk about but I don't think I missed out on anything because I was born in 82.
I also think the whole arguement that music was so much better then is such BS. The music industry was certainly more innocent but there was also a whole lotta shitty ass music being made back then just as there is today and just as there is a great deal of amazing musicians out there today.
Sure acid was legal and cops only took your beer and told you to drive home instead of locking you up and all kinds of shit like that but that doesn't change anything for me. In that case I'd prefer to grow up in the late 1800's for all the cheap legal morphine.
I guess another aspect would be the war. A lot of people found themselves a part of something much bigger than themselves and they united behind that. Today there are just too many damn issues and too many people vying for there chance to stand up against this or that.
I don't doubt that it was an amazing time to be alive but I have met a lot of people from that time who seem so hung up on it. As if it was the peak of their lives and that nothing can ever compare to it again. To some small degree times have changed and laws have changed and society as a whole has changed but people haven't and they never seem to on an individual scale. I think now is an extraordinary time to be alive. I wouldn't wish to be born any other time than I was.
And if you wanna get right down to it the drugs we have access (better access) to today are better and cheaper. That right there is all I need to know.

I never liked what HST said about the tide rolling back. I just think it's a bit dramatic. Maybe that's how he felt personally.... I don't know what I'm trying to say Like you said DF. The world hasn't changed all that much and maybe I'm not supposed to understand what he was trying to say because it was written for those who went through the same thing. I can understand it in the sense that every generation eventually grows up (for lack of a better expression) and their ideals and passion are lost. The fight is over and soon your the one raising the kids and being responsible etc etc....I don't know if Im making any sense so Im just gonna stop now.

[Duckfeet]

I think the only thing that made the 60's so special was that it was the beginning of something new.
Of course I wasn't there and all I know of are the stories that people like you (DF) talk about but I don't think I missed out on anything because I was born in 82.
I also think the whole arguement that music was so much better then is such BS. The music industry was certainly more innocent but there was also a whole lotta shitty ass music being made back then just as there is today and just as there is a great deal of amazing musicians out there today.
Sure acid was legal and cops only took your beer and told you to drive home instead of locking you up and all kinds of shit like that but that doesn't change anything for me. In that case I'd prefer to grow up in the late 1800's for all the cheap legal morphine.
I guess another aspect would be the war. A lot of people found themselves a part of something much bigger than themselves and they united behind that. Today there are just too many damn issues and too many people vying for there chance to stand up against this or that.
I don't doubt that it was an amazing time to be alive but I have met a lot of people from that time who seem so hung up on it. As if it was the peak of their lives and that nothing can ever compare to it again. To some small degree times have changed and laws have changed and society as a whole has changed but people haven't and they never seem to on an individual scale. I think now is an extraordinary time to be alive. I wouldn't wish to be born any other time than I was.
And if you wanna get right down to it the drugs we have access (better access) to today are better and cheaper. That right there is all I need to know.

I never liked what HST said about the tide rolling back. I just think it's a bit dramatic. Maybe that's how he felt personally.... I don't know what I'm trying to say Like you said DF. The world hasn't changed all that much and maybe I'm not supposed to understand what he was trying to say because it was written for those who went through the same thing. I can understand it in the sense that every generation eventually grows up (for lack of a better expression) and their ideals and passion are lost. The fight is over and soon your the one raising the kids and being responsible etc etc....I don't know if Im making any sense so Im just gonna stop now.

It's true: u know for Hunter Thompson, there probably always was a party somewhere: I felt for the longest time--in late sixties, early seventies--that there was a party, but I wasn't invited. I was always leaving the U.S., had been raised south of the border, and in HS I didn't have any friends: I came back from Nicaragua, just to enlist in Army. But when I'd read the books, like Fear and Loathing, I'd think that soon I'd be part of all that...same reason I went to Tangier, thinking I'd bump into Kerouac and Burroughs: I was a dreamer...then later I lived in my early twenties--early 1970's--after Vietnam, in Gainesville FL and there met my first girl who wasn't a prostitute or some local floozy, and she pretty much made me happy, and then I got my first Harley, and had pals, more girls, and those years were the best, and then I shot an idiot and came back to Cali and got all strung out and went to prison...and it was probably the best time, right before it all fell apart, for me...but you're right to guess that it's just youth I think: to think it is the best of times, and that the music was great...my trouble, if any, is that I didn't grow up, have kids, all that, but stayed in junky/crazy life until even I could see the party was over...much much later....good post tho, and I thought it was perceptive...

[digby]

I don't know Opiyum - guess you had to be there. But as far as the music goes, lets see....the 60's gave us Jefferson Airplane, The Doors, Elvis, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Santana, Creedence Clearwater, Blue Cheer, The Joy of Cooking, Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Allman Bros, Doobie Bros, Crosby Stills Nash and Young, Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, Big Brother and the Holding Company, Donovan, Eric Clapton, Cream, Buffalo Springfield, Moody Blues, Jimi Hendrix....and that is only scratching the surface. Most of these bands could be seen for $3 or $4 a night and taking turns opening for one another. Add to that the free concerts, which were everwhere with many of those same talented groups and beg you to find a similar grade of talent offered so often and so cheaply to the public anywhere or anytime these days. I remember seeing the Siegal Schwall Blues Band playing on a street corner 2 blocks from my flat - just decided to play a concert right there on the corner of 24th and Dolores. Things like that just don't happen today.

Todays concert costs $30 or $40 or more for one group only, and you are usually a mile from the stage. While todays musician is more polished and has better equipment, the final product if often a tepid and homogenized product packaged and sold by the music industry following a formula as one would package 60 day old cheeze. Of course there are always exceptions to this, but taken in its entirety, the modern music scene as a whole is poor by comparison.

As far as the rest of it goes, I tend to think people exaggerate how good it was. Not on individual isolated good times, but the period as a whole. Thinking about the parties every weekend, the bright and exotic clothing, the sexual freedom together with music everywhere - it just made for a type of candyland that this country had never seen before nor since. But hidden in its depths were the bad trips, the muggings, drug murders, paranoia and jail sentences that were daily occurances as the 60's wound down. It is human nature to gloss over those negatives and instead live in the Peter Max and Owsley Acid Dreamsphere. And by the end of 1969 it was gone. I mean completely gone. The group consciousness that everyone had been getting high on for so long splintered into scattered remnants wondering what the hell happened.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah: Haight-Ashbury ended with everybody strung out on speed, and Jerry Garcia ended up covered with sores, speedballing all the time, and, like John Belushi, dying of it...he kept the dream alive, I guess, but it was just a dream...the reality of most people I knew or heard about from that era, was that they ended badly, mostly drunk or drugged out, and the party long over...between the dream and the reality...lies the shadow...

[hovadagod]

The music was better. But otherwise who knows.

I feel like people are more and more enlightented as time goes on. Also, there could be a big social movement sometime soon. Who really knows. Things are kind of stale feeling now but I bet that things will change.

[Dan K]

I didn't have time to really read this, but I am good friends with 'aphrodine' ... Lenny Pickards gf in mountain view...She will find this kinda interesting

[Dan K]

http://www.freepickard.org/

You just need to read this if you don't already know........

[hovadagod]

That's the guy with the missile silo.
I want one of these -->http://www.missilebases.com/.

[hovadagod]

There are steep penalties for possessing LSD. I can't imagine this dude being set free after manufacturing it. I mean...come on. I totally wish I could help this guy but I really don't see how. I would guess that his only chance is to work for the CIA or somehting that would require him to totally sell out.

[Dan K]

There are steep penalties for possessing LSD. I can't imagine this dude being set free after manufacturing it. I mean...come on. I totally wish I could help this guy but I really don't see how. I would guess that his only chance is to work for the CIA or somehting that would require him to totally sell out.


He already worked for the CIA in the 80s working to trade heroin for stinger missles we had traded to Afghanistan and now wanted back.

Lenny was well known to the government and had been busted before. This one, they couldnt let slip. Read about Skinner, the man was pure evil.

[hovadagod]

He already worked for the CIA in the 80s working to trade heroin for stinger missles we had traded to Afghanistan and now wanted back.

Lenny was well known to the government and had been busted before. This one, they couldnt let slip. Read about Skinner, the man was pure evil.

Why would afghanastan need US heroin???

[Dan K]

Why would afghanastan need US heroin???


Trading back shipments we seized from them, for missles we sold them.

It's all public record, some googling will point out the finer aspects of his role w the government.

He also worked with them in other aspects after his mountain view bust.

[marshalldylan1]

Damn, I would really like some LSD right now. I'm 8 days clean, and it would really help put things in perspective.

Dan K, if you still talk to his wife, tell her that what her husband did helped thousands of people gain insight on their lifes. I know I owe a lot to him to risk everything to bring what LSD does for one persons psyche to thousands of people, including me.

[Dan K]

I hear ya marshalldylan1,

LSD made me who I am today.

She will respond to the contact info on the freepickard link I posted. At this time, Leonard is allowed mail and even some assistance with his research project and any and all communication is MUCH appreciated!

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

This is a lil off subject but I was told in certain states if you get caught trafficking LSD they can charge you with Attempted Man-Slaughter?? Any truth in this??

[nodrover]

This is a lil off subject but I was told in certain states if you get caught trafficking LSD they can charge you with Attempted Man-Slaughter?? Any truth in this??
I'm not sure about the manslaughter thing, but i'm pretty sure if you get caught with enough you can be charged with conspiracy against the government.

[nhop]

I thought this name was familiar, I had heard it before over at Drug war rant . com One of Pete's (and rational drug policy reform in general...) biggest detractors is a fellow called Mark Kleiman, who was Pickards former boss.

Kleiman is unfortunately a loud voice in the drug policy reform debate, and sees himself as a "sensible" "middle of the roader" between prohibition and legalization. His website is: http://www.samefacts dot com/

(dont want to link directly there from ophile....)


edit: also see this story about Pickard. Wierd shite...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/12/19/MN150948.DTL

[TrackStar0420]

I marked I am in the "family" and while thats not true, and I didnt want to skew the stats, it was the best answer to show my belief in its existence. I've only been on lot for a couple years, saw jerry once, but was such a young buck, it didnt count. I have been around some large amounts of L, and am close with some guys who have been around for a while. Recently stumbled across some info, about a pretty major player whose gal snitched on the guys who are directly under the chemist. Travelling from Cali, to mexico, canada, and europe. Not sure how much of the fluff will be around next year.
There is a lot going on at these music festivals, and like someone stated before the family(s) are more a losely connected group of people that have been at shows, on lot for a while, proven trustworthy, all the way up to those connected to the bands and the chemist. For the lower level a lot is placed on being given your "wings".
And if you;ve sold bunk, ripped others off, snitched, or mis-treated your ol-lady among other things will get your wings taken away, So for those at these festies looking for good L, more times than not the dirtiest hippies, with a pin on their hat of the stealy with wings on the side, will be moving the higher quailty.

Oh, and thumbprints are no joke. The method for taking them is a little different than the olden days, I'm assuming because of too many people not "coming back". Instead of thumbing from the actual crystal, one person thumbs the crystal, and then presses their thumb onto your palm, I'm assuming this doesnt make too much of a difference, and it was silver not the fluff, but once was enuff.

[hovadagod]

So the supposed white blotter fluff going around could be real?

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

So the supposed white blotter fluff going around could be real?

got 6.35 minutes????
http://www.dizzler.com/lyrics/The_Moody_Blues_Legend_Of_A_Mind

[hovadagod]

huh? How does that answser my question? Sounds good...Timothy Leary's dead? He made all the white fluff...I think not...

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

huh? How does that answser my question? Sounds good...Timothy Leary's dead? He made all the white fluff...I think not...

ah fuck

answer- YES:rolleyes:

your on you own- http://www.dizzler.com/music/The_Moody_Blues



















:cool: <3

[TrackStar0420]

The problem with the white fluff is that it's very easy to fake. I mean laying sheets does take some intelligence or at least being shown by someone and having a decent connect.
But the family should of got some high quality art-work blotters in order to distinguish their paper from the fakers. Maybe that's why they didnt tho, no way to trace/connect sheets from across the country back to each other.
But yes there is family fluff out right now. More was avliable for cheaper earlier this summer when tour started, but it's there.
If you hit any festies or shows, on lot your going to want to (Like I mentioned before) look for the really dirty, dreaded hippies with silver pins on their hats with wings. With out having a personal connect, their ganna be your best bet.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

The problem with the white fluff is that it's very easy to fake. I mean laying sheets does take some intelligence or at least being shown by someone and having a decent connect.
But the family should of got some high quality art-work blotters in order to distinguish their paper from the fakers. Maybe that's why they didnt tho, no way to trace/connect sheets from across the country back to each other.
But yes there is family fluff out right now. More was avliable for cheaper earlier this summer when tour started, but it's there.
If you hit any festies or shows, on lot your going to want to (Like I mentioned before) look for the really dirty, dreaded hippies with silver pins on their hats with wings. With out having a personal connect, their ganna be your best bet.

FUCK ARE NOT THE STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTION A BITCH FOR THOSE TO ER 'LAZY' TO READ BETWEEN THE *LINES*

WAS WONDERING IF U B CHIMING BACK IN,
must be getting a real *kick* out of this whole thread

FLY HIGH ANGELS - WINGS NEVER MELT NEAR THE SUN



:cool:
:cool:

[hovadagod]

well SWIM procured a half strip at a show from a well dressed young couple from out of town; definitely didn't look like winged hippies. They had a sheet. They were also totally spun but still were surprisingly good at communicating. They said it was white fluff and they looked happy; unlike some of the hippies walking around shows who look like they just saw a ghost. I guess there is really know way to know but the fact that they were taking the same stuff is a good indicator. Perforated white blotter.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

FLY ANGELS UNDER MANY A GUISE
WINGS ON PLANES ARE SIMPLE FOR *SUPPORT* OF STRUCTURAL 747'S
A PLANE SIMPLE CAN NOT FLY WITHOUT ITS WINGS

unless we are talking helocopters -
but that's a whole other set of physics

SURE HAS GOT YOUR INTEREST THOUGH HOVA
YOU'RE A KIND SOUL :)




spread the love

[JayTrizzle]

ok this is what I'VE gathere,d by no means is this true or not. The Rainbow family was a real family, I'm from Kansas and most of the amber going to the festivals was from that bunker is Kansas, which is now defunct. When most people say "i've got that family" or "i'm out working for the family" it's a loose knit group of people who learned the chemistry from the original big three, being owsley, kemp, and the other guy. Those people in turn teach other people. I read this big long story on "fingerprinting",and actually witnessed it taking place one year (best dose I've ever had from these people, too.) Basically, if you want in, that is, if you want to start working for one of the "cells" of the family, you have to do a finger print. That is, you have to stick your thumb right into the undilluted crystal LSD, and suck your thumb. Supposedly they do this so no matter the consequence you can ALWAYS feel comfortable eating a whole sheet if need be and not be surprised by what happens. They take care of you, make sure you eat, don't let you go nuts, don't let you do anything stupid. These people have been doing this for a very long time. Anyone that actually looked legit that said they were working for the family, or started talking about it after I bought shit from them, always been good. Now, there have been times when I was drunk and just bought some random shit from some shady looking dude who said he was working for the family, actually numerous occasions. The best thing to do is the get to know one member that everyone would instantly recognize if you said dudes FIRST name, and if they don't know what you're talking about they're lying. Everyone in the midwest knows Jimmy and his family and band, and if the people you're buying from try to say they're members o the family and they don't know Jimmy, they are lying. So yes, it is a real thing, it's basically just people who were trained by other people and shit gets passed down so no one fucks anything up.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

ok this is what I'VE gathere,d by no means is this true or not. The Rainbow family was a real family, I'm from Kansas and most of the amber going to the festivals was from that bunker is Kansas, which is now defunct. When most people say "i've got that family" or "i'm out working for the family" it's a loose knit group of people who learned the chemistry from the original big three, being owsley, kemp, and the other guy. Those people in turn teach other people. I read this big long story on "fingerprinting",and actually witnessed it taking place one year (best dose I've ever had from these people, too.) Basically, if you want in, that is, if you want to start working for one of the "cells" of the family, you have to do a finger print. That is, you have to stick your thumb right into the undilluted crystal LSD, and suck your thumb. Supposedly they do this so no matter the consequence you can ALWAYS feel comfortable eating a whole sheet if need be and not be surprised by what happens. They take care of you, make sure you eat, don't let you go nuts, don't let you do anything stupid. These people have been doing this for a very long time. Anyone that actually looked legit that said they were working for the family, or started talking about it after I bought shit from them, always been good. Now, there have been times when I was drunk and just bought some random shit from some shady looking dude who said he was working for the family, actually numerous occasions. The best thing to do is the get to know one member that everyone would instantly recognize if you said dudes FIRST name, and if they don't know what you're talking about they're lying. Everyone in the midwest knows Jimmy and his family and band, and if the people you're buying from try to say they're members o the family and they don't know Jimmy, they are lying. So yes, it is a real thing, it's basically just people who were trained by other people and shit gets passed down so no one fucks anything up.

SO THANKS FUCKIN YOU FOR SHARING WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD:D

[lotus]

don't get me wrong - i love all the myth and legend that swims and swirls the trip world -but acid is acid, and some is stronger than others.

to decide that the shit is good based off what it looks like in crystal form is fucking retarded. all the crap surrounding fluff, amber, black - it's all shite. all of it.

the dirty little truth is in how crystals are formed......something as unnoticed as humidity in the air from rain 2 days ago can take crap and make it look killer, or vice versa.....and when talking about crap crystals - it's not that the acid is less or bad somehow, but by weight it has more benign impurites. all that means is you might have to take 1.5x as much to dose.

to walk around claiming "this batch is 98% pure" - you can be sure they don't have the slightest. the only real way to produce a killer batch is to replicate a recipe, step by step exactly (with chem's, solvent's, equip), that's been scientifically noted - do that, and your yield will be damn near identical.

it doesn't matter if the batch produced is 60% or 92% - the 60% could be done to make blotters at 250mics/per, and the 92% could be utilized to end up with crap no more than 50 or 60 mics per.

all the great cooks - it wasn't the actual acid they made, it was the strength of the doses - that was their true signature.

everything else - folklore turn'd reality by people who love stories.

[duck]

JIMMMMYYYYY

http://www.hookahville.com/30/bands/TheSchwag.jpg

[marshalldylan1]

don't get me wrong - i love all the myth and legend that swims and swirls the trip world -but acid is acid, and some is stronger than others.

to decide that the shit is good based off what it looks like in crystal form is fucking retarded. all the crap surrounding fluff, amber, black - it's all shite. all of it.

the dirty little truth is in how crystals are formed......something as unnoticed as humidity in the air from rain 2 days ago can take crap and make it look killer, or vice versa.....and when talking about crap crystals - it's not that the acid is less or bad somehow, but by weight it has more benign impurites. all that means is you might have to take 1.5x as much to dose.

to walk around claiming "this batch is 98% pure" - you can be sure they don't have the slightest. the only real way to produce a killer batch is to replicate a recipe, step by step exactly (with chem's, solvent's, equip), that's been scientifically noted - do that, and your yield will be damn near identical.

it doesn't matter if the batch produced is 60% or 92% - the 60% could be done to make blotters at 250mics/per, and the 92% could be utilized to end up with crap no more than 50 or 60 mics per.

all the great cooks - it wasn't the actual acid they made, it was the strength of the doses - that was their true signature.

everything else - folklore turn'd reality by people who love stories.

Some good info here. Yeah, I take everyones word on their doses with a grain of salt. Everyone has the best shit according to them. I just buy based on what kind of read I get on em. Ya know what I mean? In my experience, wings are bullshit. It's a stupid lot trend that started a few years ago. Anyone can buy a pair, and just cause someone has them, doesn't mean shit.

Oh, btw, you're names lotus. Any connection to the band?

[duck]

I sure hope not cus lotus fucking sucks balls

[hovadagod]

http://sunshinejoy.com/default.asp?Folder=19&Name=Grateful_Dead_Pins


This quote from DEA website helps answer my question.


On March 31, 2003, William Leonard Pickard and Clyde Apperson were found guilty of one count of conspiracy to manufacture and distribute more than 10 grams of LSD from August 1999 to November 2000 and one count of possession with the intent to distribute more than 10 grams of LSD on November 6, 2000. The case involving these two individuals included the largest LSD lab seizure ever made by the DEA. Agents seized 41.3 kilograms of LSD and 23.6 kilograms of iso-LSD, a by-product from the manufacture of LSD. In the history of the DEA, there have only been 4 seizures of complete LSD labs. Three of these seizures involved Pickard and Apperson.(10) (http://www.justice.gov/dea/concern/lsd.html#foot10) Click here (http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/states/newsrel/2003/sanfran033103.html) for more information on this story.

(obviously the nubmers sound like total bull-shit....41 kg of acid...come on.

Some good info here. Yeah, I take everyones word on their doses with a grain of salt. Everyone has the best shit according to them. I just buy based on what kind of read I get on em. Ya know what I mean? In my experience, wings are bullshit. It's a stupid lot trend that started a few years ago. Anyone can buy a pair, and just cause someone has them, doesn't mean shit.

Oh, btw, you're names lotus. Any connection to the band?

[Dan K]

Actually, the black stuff is a sign of bad ergomine. I wouldnt do it.

[lotus]

Actually, the black stuff is a sign of bad ergomine. I wouldnt do it.

there are endless reasons why one could end up with purple/black crystals - more often than not it won't be ergomine - any impurity - like more than a few percent, has the potential to produce this colour.....ergot grows black.......just more of the same ol' same ol'. ergot alkaloids also takes on more than one crystal form - not all of it black.

like i said, i love the myth around this world, and tho i was too young for my parents to give me their blessing to run off to a dead show - i was in it for a while. it's not worth the argument. i've always been one to not take everything i hear at face value, and the first time i heard this black acid thing i naturally had to question it. the answers i found didn't warrent outright belief.

other than that - most of us would never know the difference. most of us will never, ever see crystals - they could be blacker than night.....by the time you're done producing blotters, nobody'd know the difference.

the band lotus.......i've never heard of them.......by the sounds of duck, i don't think i want to!? aye, i know what you mean...

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

stop the running with scissor, could put your eye out with that.
beleive or not the family thing didn't start with ah Jerry

just read alot:)

[JayTrizzle]

Hahaha Duck i was waiting for you to post something lol. Did you make it to schwag to see String Cheese (or well more or less string cheese lol)

[JayTrizzle]

I never said anything about seeing any crystals, or anything like that. I just know from personal experience, and i would sure as fuck never take any black liquid, nosiree bob. Also, I never thought it has anything to do with the color of it, i just always knew that the rainbow family (the guy in the bunker in kansas) put out Amber, and the Dead family put out Fluff. I always thought it was brand naming. Just like the stamps on your bags. Anyone have any idea where the Owsley and Hoffman were coming from this year? I took both, and i'm for sure they were both from the same chemist, felt the exact same, colors and effects were identical (although that's probably me, I always see an abundance of purple and huge like, laser lines that skew off of lights and crazy shit like that). That's where it was at this year. Saw a lot of people getting ripped off on white on white, which last year and the year before is where it was at. This year it was all about designed blotter, don't know why, but it was. The "owsley" that I got had a giant dancing bear for the blotter art, so I assumed it was going to be fire, lol, and the hoffman was just a picture of albert hoffman. Like I said though, both were equally good, and with the abundance of the owsley stuff at schwag, I can take a guess as to where they came from, so odds are that if you run into any owsley or hoffman while you're out and about, it's really the white family fluff.

[hovadagod]

was the bunk white on white perforated?

[TrackStar0420]

the white on white around this summer was all non perforated.
crystal color is basically the sign of a caring chemist. its about taking the time to run it through some sort of column soo many times it becomes redundant. (I believe, def. dont want to at like i know anything about chemistry.)
LSD quality is effected by light, moisture, and heat. So even the top of the top can be quickly reduced to worthless junk if introduced to any of these elements. And like was said before, whoever is laying the blotter, or vials can determine quality of single doses no matter how good the original product was..

The wings is a tricky subject. It think that at any large hippy gathering the winged tend to be reliable for higher grade L. Ya, it's easy for anyone to wear a pair, but i've seen many a fool get theirs taken. this includes some sort of public punishment. therefore reducing the amount of others from wondering down the same path.

And don't get started with the jimmy thing. im not talking shit on the man, he is an all around good guy(except the underage girl preference) and kinda puts his neck out, to provide a place for a lotta kids to come hear good music, and enjoy life. He probably makes some good cash at the same time,
im close to some guys who helped with the original investment in zoe, just not interested in others financial dealings, so keep outta those convo's


a lot of kids use his name, and respect his name as some sort of inclusive cult thing. the schwag are a tribute band for the dead. But the dead are still on tour. Kids are going around asking did u see the schwag, or goto the stock, who have never seen the dead. when they could of spent the same amount of time and money to see the real band in chicago!. I just will never understand that.

sorry for the rants here, and hope it wasnt disrespectful and makes some sort of sense. too gone to re-read. Take care all.

[scikid]

^^^

I was pretty surprised by how good the Chicago shows were. I'm not that big into the Dead, but I really enjoyed myself.

Yes it is around and I have sampled the product. Actually several "families" existed at one point. No clue if they still do, but I think they would. I was pretty heavy into touring and all that shit for awhile. Nowadays I'm not too found of it. I've seen it eat way to many people alive.

I still go to shows, but as I get older the scene gets weirder. Basically little gangs running the shit now. I have had no desire for LSD for over half a decade at this point but damn I used to get fucking spun!

[Dan K]

Actually, the dead did have a lot to do w LSD dist and the brotherhood of eternal love. Long story short, the sound engineer who built the 'wall of sound' is a guy named 'ron wickerasham' ... he later built phils bass, w the brand name 'Alembic' ..... an alembic is part of some basic chemistry gear, and the entire project was funded by LSD sales ... aka, the song 'alice D. millionaire.'

Once again, please follow the pickard links elsewhere in this thread, and write to lenny or put some money oh his books if you can.

This is a prime case of a govt fuck-over. They used him in the 80s to get missles back from the afghans, they used him as an informant..... and when skinner needed a fall guy ... lenny was it.

I'm nto excusing anyone though, the Brotherhood is an extremely violent organization.

[Citricburn]

The brotherhood of eternal love are mentioned in Mr Nice by H Marks, Ernie if I recall was thename of one guy.

[nick]

The brotherhood of eternal love are mentioned in Mr Nice by H Marks, Ernie if I recall was thename of one guy.

Yeah,Howard was doing business with the brotherhood.I believe Howard had to make a swift exit from Las Vegas when it all came on top.

[sidman]

Well the only "family" I really ever got kinda sorta but in a long round about way, close to...was the "F" family out in upper new england. I just don't wanna say the name here just in case but you guy's probably know who I'm talkin' 'bout. Alot of the cleanest sid ( my friends nicknamed Me "sidman" because of all the acid I've done and handled ....there where times I practically had whole COUNTIES Trippin' thier brains out !! ) came from up there. There where blue window-pane ( gelatin ) green,red,yellow,purple..all that stuff was gabba-gabba-gooooood-d-dd!! Hardly any downside to the come-down. There were double-headed eagles with pink pyramids over thier heads and they clutched a silver Key( those hits were more like 4-way hits),there were Globes, T.V. screens, plain white, plain blue, plain orange ( not the orange sunshine...I ain't THAT old !), Mickey Mouse, Gooney-birds, beavis-n-butthead, red hearts, gold hearts, gold diamonds, sugar-cubes, christ's, santa's, okey-dokeys, elvis's, ribs, 69's, flyin' eyeball's...doze were good...woodstock ( snoopy's pal) was, "melting the whole planet" visual, then thier were the "album covers" ( You fellow old timers remember those? When they would pick an album and make sheets copying the art-work? I've seen the bands Boston,Led Zeppelin,Cheech-n-Chong,Beatles,Yes,The Who..the artwork was awesome!!) and lets see...oh yeah, then I remember they had some blue double-stacked micro-dots which were phenomenal...(that tiny little blue dot did ALL of this?!!) They sometimes sold liquid but it hardly EVER made it out of the state. You had to go there a week in advance to make sure you got it. OHHH...the memories....We used to rip off a twenty strip and throw it in a jug of Kool-aid and let it sit.....WOW....Blue Kool-aid in a wine glass looks cool in a room with black-lights while your trippin' yer face off....then grandma came in and took the jug....don't know if she had some but she was glued to her recliner watchin' "Underdog" at 3 in the mornin'.....I'm pretty sure this all came from the same family except 4 the Microdots...those came from Central Park..I paid 200 bucks for 160 of them no shittin' ! The good thing about knowin someone who knows someone who knows someone that knows another someone who knows "The Family" was that I always got the cleanest Acid and it was always real...never did I buy any Fake" shit from those guys.
These people are SMART and it would suprise alot of people to know WHO is really responsible for making really good/clean acid. You have to be smart smart smart becaus e L.S.D.....REAL L.S.D. takes serios knowledge as a matter of fact I don't even think the "recipe" for the original L.S.D. 25 even exist outside of the fed's safe..I'm pretty sure 98% of the acid out there is either variations/analogs of Watsons formula...I'm pretty sure Hoffmans is kept under strict classification ( for thier own PERSONAL USE !! HARRR-HAR-HAR-R-R-R HARHARHARHARHARHARHAR !!!!) Alot of the acid out there now is not really L.S.D. but either a close variant analog or L.S.A. tweeked into L.S.D, ( which comes out rather "dirty", judging by how it feels). Oh, it's been quite some time since I really seen or talked to any of those guy's but every once in a while I'll bump into someone who knows someone that knows the other guy who knows somebody who knows them, and I'll ask how it's going and I usually get an answer of "Good ! " This last summer I had someone I know give me two hits and the shit hit me WHAMMO POW-W-W-W-W and I was trippin hard but being an old "veteran" of acid, I could tell that, although enjoyable,it was some "dirty" stuff, so the come-down was kinda dragged out. It made me miss "the good ol' days" and I couldn't help but think of the "F" family and wonder "how dey is?" because nobody believes you when you say you used to get the best and cleanest acid this side of new england...they wanna TRY IT they don't wanna hear 'bout it....but hey those memories cause me to "flash-back" every now and then when I partake-a-smokem' sum gooooooo Weed and that is pleasant enough. ( besides some phenta-perca-morpha-dope-a-thon-a-log-in-on-in-on!!)
They say Acid never leaves your body or somethin', well...thats fine by Me...at least I know it was some good stuff.
I bet at least a few of you know who the "f" family is....*hint* -New Hampshire

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

HOLY PARAGRAPH BREAKS BATMAN^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^