Who is able to avoid the needle?

[Spork]

SWIM generally sniffs his powder, he has tried the pin once, with a low dose (30mg) and enjoyed it, but it was mild and short (just as SWIM intended his first IV experience to be).

That was weeks ago, and though it's inefficient and a waste of money, SWIM has stuck to sniffing.

Has anyone else been able to try, but prevent being habituated to the use of the pin?

Does anyone sniff on a regular basis and "chip" with the needle?

SWIM is very scared of needles and was only able to try it in the dis-inhibited mindset of benzos (SWIM knows this is not a safe combination, but always weighs out doses on a precise mg scale and would never IV a large amount, and keeps naltrexone on hand.)

[duck]

I've shot up probably about 100 times or so, off and on sporadically over about 4-5 years, though I still snort 9/10 times, and have no real needle addiction. I just don't really like shoving steel into my arm.

[Spork]

Ah, thank you duck that was a very insightful post :)

[Nonphixion]

Dood don't it. It only makes things worse in the long run. If you have never got that 'amazing' rush, you don't ever know what ur missing and not chasing that 1st good rush.(& thats a good thing).

[Spork]

Thats the whole reason I tried a small amount first, so that it wouldn't be overwhelming. I am kind of tempted to try 100mg or something though, but I'm deathly afraid of needles, and mixing benzos + that much agonist is NOT a good idea.

Oh well, I guess my phobias keep me safe.

[Flowergirl]

I never have and I feel pretty confident in saying I never will. My lifestyle isn't conducive to using needles. As if that weren't enough of a deterrent, everyone here pretty much agrees that that is the end of the line; as in there's no where else to go once you head down that road. My advice? Don't do it.

[Spork]

everyone here pretty much agrees that that is the end of the line; as in there's no where else to go once you head down that road. My advice? Don't do it.

That's why I created this thread to see who can actually go back after crossing that line.

[SHELLEY]

i don't get high anymore, but if i ever started doing drugs again
i would never consider any ROA besides iv
could never go back, it'd feel like a complete waste of money and time

[Seedy]

SWIM generally sniffs his powder, he has tried the pin once, with a low dose (30mg) and enjoyed it, but it was mild and short (just as SWIM intended his first IV experience to be).

That was weeks ago, and though it's inefficient and a waste of money, SWIM has stuck to sniffing.

Has anyone else been able to try, but prevent being habituated to the use of the pin?

Does anyone sniff on a regular basis and "chip" with the needle?

SWIM is very scared of needles and was only able to try it in the dis-inhibited mindset of benzos (SWIM knows this is not a safe combination, but always weighs out doses on a precise mg scale and would never IV a large amount, and keeps naltrexone on hand.)

I've tried shooting up twice, both times with fresh works, alcohol swabs, vials of morphine, everything completely kosher. First time, like you I was on benzos and it was easy enough and I got high. Next time without the benzos I poked around a bit, couldn't find a vein, freaked out and decided that was that, shooting's not for me. Who knows, I'd probably have someone else shoot me up if the oppurtunity came about but my needle experiments haven't given me a permanent needle fixation!

[Indy]

Can't really comment on the topic, but I will say that having naltrexone or naloxone on hand really doesn't mean anything if you're alone, since if you're actually gonna NEED it, you won't be able to administer it to yourself anyway.

[duck]

Dood don't it. It only makes things worse in the long run. If you have never got that 'amazing' rush, you don't ever know what ur missing and not chasing that 1st good rush.(& thats a good thing).

That's not necessarily true. It may be true for the vast amount of cases, but there are so, so many people who have shot up a bunch but over a long time and not ever getting strung out on it. They get strung out on the dope, but they don't have to have the needle.

It comes down to the person -- gotta look at your self as straight as possible, ya know

Can't really comment on the topic, but I will say that having naltrexone or naloxone on hand really doesn't mean anything if you're alone, since if you're actually gonna NEED it, you won't be able to administer it to yourself anyway.

another reason for robots

[cactus31]

I'm positively able to avoid the needle ;)

For a number of reasons, too. I mean, let me clarify that most of the junkies I know do shoot, so it's not like I've never had the opportunity.

Actually, I've got likely on the order of 100+ complete rigs brand new up in the 'medicine cabinet' -Along with the heavier guage needles, all the way down to 21g [1.5"] for IM or Subcut. injections. My mom's an RN so I end up with all sorts of weird shit. Minus the drugs, I could run a fucking ED from kitchen ;)

But again, I digress...because I'm HIGH. Whatever.

No, needles do NOT appeal to me in the least. I've been doing Heroin for a long while now....always chased my fucking West Coast goddamn TAR!!

...I've no attraction to pins after watching what that shit does to veins, how long it takes to FIND said vein, the amount of equipment needed [in the car or on person, should the police search you],...and I've seen needles fucking BREAK off in my friend's vein, perfectly good gear spilled into cloth, never to be recovered, bruised up horrible track marks. The time factor is a biggie for me, really....I can [or with a friend] smoke a big fat dot in about 2 minutes with minimal of 'equipment' :)

No thanks, I don't give a shit how much 'better' it is. Ignorance is BLISS.

[Maintenance Man]

Depends on the drug.

I actually prefer OC when it's eaten compared to when it's shot. It's smoother, lasts longer, nods harder, etc., and, call bullshit or not, is pretty much as strong of a high mg for mg when eaten, except it lasts longer - plus the IV rush is kinda lousy IMO compared to others. Vics or percs? Sometimes a deal too good to pass up came around back when I used and I'd buy a bunch, even in my h-using days (usually as an "insurance policy" against w/d if I couldn't score for a day)... like $120 for 120 perc 5/325s (Mallie 512). I CWE'd those bitches.

If pills were as cheap as heroin, I'd do mostly pills. I'm a HUGE fan of the nod over the rush, and a huge fan of legs. And the purity. Around here, oxy goes around $.67-1.00 a mg. Morphine, $.10 a mg. Heroin, $100 for a gram that weighed about perfect every time, but sometimes the quality was shitty, which was never the case with pills. There is something special about getting a g and going home and loading up and shooting, and being all on, "whoa, this is some great shit," but that happened not nearly as often, and was not nearly as nice, as, "oh, shit, I have to cop some more, this shit won't hold me until tomorrow" was bad. There is nothing quite as frustrating or disappointing in this world as copping some shitty smack that's half the potency of the last batch. Except maybe not scoring any at all.

Now, if I had some morphine or heroin or dilaudid, I wouldn't even consider anything else besides IV.. my mind wouldn't have time before my "cooking reflex" kicked in. The BA is just completely shitty every other way, and a major waste of drugs and money.

Rarely, if I had something like 1000mg of controlled-release morphine, I'd cut 'em in half, time-release and all, and have a decent glow for a good part of the day.. Those fuckers were impossible to shoot anyways. I would never shoot anything with particles floating in it, nor that waxy cloudy shit. I clogged up about 10 wheel filters trying to get through 10 of (I believe they were ABG) the 15s, to no avail whatsoever. I ended up eating it all anyways, which was a royal fuck of a waste.

[doctor diesel]

I'm positively able to avoid the needle ;). No thanks, I don't give a shit how much 'better' it is. Ignorance is BLISS.


Amen, Hallelujah and praise the Lord!
Wisest of words, Mr Cactus. :)



Doc

[cactus31]

Thanks, Doc :)

It's just not for me. I'm 100% certain that IVing -anything- would send me to my grave; I used to have a very bad habit of binging out on things from time to time...with reckless abandon...not a single care or any regard for my own well-being. This was years ago - before my daughter was born and I realized I have MUCH to live for...and now I have a grip on my life and my habit is manageable!!,...but still...

...I have far too many other things in life that are a helluva lot more important than drugs, and I know that for me, that ROI can only mean loss of control. I've seen it happen to several friends and aquiantences.

I'll stick to smoking tar :)

[antifox]

I haven't used a needle in over two years yet I have done opiates for all of those days except 100 days that I chose to break for along with my doctor. Like you, I just know if I went back to the needle i would have serious issues with managing my life. To stay away from the needle I stay away from tar. Even the smell of tar has be craving the needle. The only H I do now is from an East Coast source (I live in northern CA) who sends me solid rocks when I need it. Which is not often.

[Nonphixion]

That's not necessarily true. It may be true for the vast amount of cases, but there are so, so many people who have shot up a bunch but over a long time and not ever getting strung out on it. They get strung out on the dope, but they don't have to have the needle.

It comes down to the person -- gotta look at your self as straight as possible, ya know.

People have differnt views on strung out I guess.. I get what your saying for sure. I wasnt living in a crack house or anything like that. yea, I needed dope/Oxy to get by the day. I was like him, I fucken hated needles(still do), shit it took me 5+ times before i felt it and liked it. I guess what I was trying to get at is that there a point were there is no return untill ur ready or hit ur bottom or whatever. Your body can recall & remember 'good feelings' but does not recall 'pain' so good. That what I was trying to get at, if you never know that feeling, you don't know what or how good it is, and never crave it, u know? Does that make sense? I don't explain feelings or moods that well, Im not the best with words....

-T

[OxyQueen]

I've flirted with the needle only a few times....
I have it in my head, once u fall in love with the needle a whole new addiction forms...so that kinda keeps me in check.

Tried shootin coke years ago...hated it all 3x i tried it!
tried a speedball once...was o.k....
tried shooting H....ahhhhh dam; i liked it WAY too much and it scared the shit outta me how much i loved it INSTANTLY

Nothing against it....just didnt want to go "there" as i was already in a bad "space" when i shot up.

[Duckfeet]

Look: if you get seriously strung out, and have used the needle before, and have lost your fear of it, you'll eventually use it again, and eventually get hooked on it: are there exceptions...well sure, I guess, "maybe" and I know they are very vocal about it...but just remember: there are also a lot of very young people on here...and I've seen several friends, getting K4 dilaudids, well into their thirties, who were adamant that they would not get addicted to the needle, and didn't...until shit changed, and their lives took a tumble, and their determination *not* to get addicted to IV disappered...or another one, his pain got so severe, that his fear left, and both the girls I knew, got strung out too(after years of *not* being hooked on needle)...so I want to tell you, categorically, and *without* any longterm exceptions that I personally know: you start using a needle to do opiates, you'll eventually be sorry, and use that needle more and more often.

Again: it's like posts from "chippers,": I'd take them with a grain of salt: everybody's a "chipper"....until they aren't...everybody can control their IV use...until they can't...I'd do a search, and look at all the posts by all the people using drugs intervenously, and how happy they are with it, before I took that road: for all practical purposes--and I'm serious--there's no turning back. Your 'phobias' will loose their phobic power, believe me. Once you associate that needle with pleasure, rather than typical childhood associations with "pain," you'll find out the real fun just begins...

Thats the whole reason I tried a small amount first, so that it wouldn't be overwhelming. I am kind of tempted to try 100mg or something though, but I'm deathly afraid of needles, and mixing benzos + that much agonist is NOT a good idea.

Oh well, I guess my phobias keep me safe.

[OpiateQueen]

yeah being 'scared' of needles is something totally different anyway.. I still hate getting injections and stuff... but giving myself an IV of something nice....well thats another story all together..

[Nonphixion]

Look: if you get seriously strung out, and have used the needle before, and have lost your fear of it, you'll eventually use it again, and eventually get hooked on it: are there exceptions...well sure, I guess, "maybe" and I know they are very vocal about it...but just remember: there are also a lot of very young people on here...and I've seen several friends, getting K4 dilaudids, well into their thirties, who were adamant that they would not get addicted to the needle, and didn't...until shit changed, and their lives took a tumble, and their determination *not* to get addicted to IV disappered...or another one, his pain got so severe, that his fear left, and both the girls I knew, got strung out too(after years of *not* being hooked on needle)...so I want to tell you, categorically, and *without* any longterm exceptions that I personally know: you start using a needle to do opiates, you'll eventually be sorry, and use that needle more and more often.

Again: it's like posts from "chippers,": I'd take them with a grain of salt: everybody's a "chipper"....until they aren't...everybody can control their IV use...until they can't...I'd do a search, and look at all the posts by all the people using drugs intervenously, and how happy they are with it, before I took that road: for all practical purposes--and I'm serious--there's no turning back. Your 'phobias' will loose their phobic power, believe me. Once you associate that needle with pleasure, rather than typical childhood associations with "pain," you'll find out the real fun just begins...

+1 DF is much better with words than. Pretty much sums it up(good job DF). & like the poster below I hate injections too, but getting off is a differnt story, I love it...

-T

[SHELLEY]

yeah being 'scared' of needles is something totally different anyway.. I still hate getting injections and stuff... but giving myself an IV of something nice....well thats another story all together..

i like watching the metal go into my arm
even if it's just gettin my blood taken or something
and i love the burn of getting homemade tats

but i'm terrified of piercings- go figure right?

[antifox]

I just think there is no possible way you can say if you have used the needle before then you are going to go back. There is really no possible way you can say that's absolutely true. I know two people besides myself who have also used for years and not gone back to the needle. There are plenty of ways to be perfectly satisfied without a needle, and for me there is much more satisfaction the way I am now than the way i was 2 years. There is absolutely NOTHING except a gun to my head or someone I love or something along those lines that could get me to pick up a needle. I please my addiction as well as my lust for the high and excitement WAY more without a needle now a days.

[SeVeN]

Again: it's like posts from "chippers,": I'd take them with a grain of salt: everybody's a "chipper"....until they aren't...everybody can control their IV use...until they can't...

Exactly. Its like the "Junky Sage" (i think most of us have had one) of my life once told me when talking about whether another friend of mine did dope.

He said, "well jon, either you do dope or you don't". Sounds kinda stupid and at the time I was thinking, "well no shit". But now I know what he meant.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah: I've posted this before, but when I was a really young newbie at being a junky, was just a 'chipper' had it 'under control' blah blah blah, this old con/dealer, name of Bear in Santa Ana told me: "Man, either jump in with both feet or get out!" What he didn't tell me, was that it was already too late...it was either "jump in with both feet" now, or do it later...not much choice left, even at that young age, but I'm sure glad I didn't know that then: being a junky was tough enough without thinking that there wasn't really much escape chance for me...blue thought...

[Poppylvr]

That's why I created this thread to see who can actually go back after crossing that line.
Spork, I shot my dope for about 18 months - 10 years ago.
I stopped because I was arrested for an ass load of felonies nearly 10 years ago.
I have used pills & snorted & plugged in the intervening years, but I have NOT gone back to IV. It was hard to give up the whole ritual that goes with shooting up. For while there the ritual meant a lot in the whole experience of getting high.
All that said, my recommendation is avoid the needle if you can. It leads to increasing tolerance and the willingness to take greater and greater risks to catch that elusive high.
Good luck with your choice.

[Duckfeet]

OP can listen to the different *viewpoints* and do what he wishes...all we are sharing is our opinion and our experience, on here--hopefully briefly--and people can do what they want...majority of longterm IV users say beware. I say beware and be skeptical. This goes for any online claims, including mine.

I just think there is no possible way you can say if you have used the needle before then you are going to go back. There is really no possible way you can say that's absolutely true. I know two people besides myself who have also used for years and not gone back to the needle. There are plenty of ways to be perfectly satisfied without a needle, and for me there is much more satisfaction the way I am now than the way i was 2 years. There is absolutely NOTHING except a gun to my head or someone I love or something along those lines that could get me to pick up a needle. I please my addiction as well as my lust for the high and excitement WAY more without a needle now a days.

[Citrus]

I also say, Beware... Stay awaaaaay.

[Uncle Wiggly]

I used to IV all the time before I got out of high school. I was introduced to "Dirty Dopin'", as we used to call it, by an older guy that was more or less my drug mentor. I went in the army right after I graduated. I stopped using pins at that time. I would conservatively say the times I've IVd/IMd since then are less than a dozen. (With the exception of one run when I was sent home from the hospital with an IV in my arm and a script for quite a few 8Mg Dilaudids.) Way too much temptation for my weak resolve to handle.

I've been out of high school for almost 35 years so I believe it really depends on the individual. But - the danger is that once you get over that initial fear of pins it makes it really easy to jump back to the old ways. I seriously don't know what I'd do if I ended up in my previously mentioned situation (IV-bag + Dilaudid) again. Well, to be honest, I think I know what I'd end up doing. :cool:

[duck]

Again: it's like posts from "chippers,": I'd take them with a grain of salt: everybody's a "chipper"....until they aren't...everybody can control their IV use...until they can't...


It's in the numbers, I know -- you're pretty damn likely to turn your life into a complete wasteland by playing around with needles, and it so frequently leads to horrible addiction. This may be the rule, but its not absolute, there are exceptions -- by percentage, probably pretty sizable -- there are tons of people who have tried the needle and not gotten addicted.

Saying once you start messing with needles you're gonna for sure get addicted is like saying once you start messing with heroin you're going to get addicted...and we always hate that, as a sect of society, the whole "if you try it once..." argument, it's bunk from all angles. IMO gotta look at needles the same way, it's just not neccesarily true that you will get hooked and plenty of people don't get hooked.

Is this me encouraging people who haven't to run to CVS and buy a 100ct bag of 'em? no, it isn't, I'm just trying to objectify an often overly-subjective topic.

[Duckfeet]

Sure: there are exceptions to everything...but I take questions in the context of the demographics and the natural curiousity and daring that young people often have, and repeat my own experience, that of *all* the things I've been thru: war, prison, 'everlasting love, etc., the one thing I've never been able to shake, get over, remove totally, is that desire to use opiates intervenousl...and I'm a bright, tough-minded cookie...of course people beat it sometimes, I read that shit all the time, no sweat, but when someone's obviously already on the opiate slide, I figure no need to tell'em to speed up, they won't get hurt...most people 'jump' anyway, they're just dawdling around on here before they do...again: people can read the posts, and see which view predominates, and weigh all factors...there are *always* exceptions, sure, just better make sure you face up to the odds when you jump...too many threads of people hopeless and trying to quit, time and time again, for me to treat someone contiplating I.V. drug use as "just another thing..." It's a hard hard road..."tons of people?" O.K. :)

It's in the numbers, I know -- you're pretty damn likely to turn your life into a complete wasteland by playing around with needles, and it so frequently leads to horrible addiction. This may be the rule, but its not absolute, there are exceptions -- by percentage, probably pretty sizable -- there are tons of people who have tried the needle and not gotten addicted.

Saying once you start messing with needles you're gonna for sure get addicted is like saying once you start messing with heroin you're going to get addicted...and we always hate that, as a sect of society, the whole "if you try it once..." argument, it's bunk from all angles. IMO gotta look at needles the same way, it's just not neccesarily true that you will get hooked and plenty of people don't get hooked.

Is this me encouraging people who haven't to run to CVS and buy a 100ct bag of 'em? no, it isn't, I'm just trying to objectify an often overly-subjective topic.

[Ickyuck]

I am so bad with needles I usually need help with it! Not to mention its very depressing when I take a glance at my arms and see just one vein, my left arm, so deep that its a hell of a lot of time flexing, pumping to get to that shit. Even my hands are bad. So that keeps me away. But I still get cravings, like last night, when it took all of my willpower to avoid prepping the meager 20 mgs of oxy I had left... So yeah, alone, Im good with avoiding the needle. But with someone else there I find myself asking "Hey, do you think you can tap into this vein here.."

Yeah, its a good thing my veins are shitty.

[OverDriven]

SWIM generally sniffs his powder, he has tried the pin once, with a low dose (30mg) and enjoyed it, but it was mild and short (just as SWIM intended his first IV experience to be).

That was weeks ago, and though it's inefficient and a waste of money, SWIM has stuck to sniffing.

Has anyone else been able to try, but prevent being habituated to the use of the pin?

Does anyone sniff on a regular basis and "chip" with the needle?

SWIM is very scared of needles and was only able to try it in the dis-inhibited mindset of benzos (SWIM knows this is not a safe combination, but always weighs out doses on a precise mg scale and would never IV a large amount, and keeps naltrexone on hand.)

I'm not even sure why you are asking. Just because there are some people out there that can handle it and not fall doesn't mean a thing about what will happen if you try it. Everyone is different. Don't let a few survivor stories inflate your confidence and convince you to do something foolish.

[duck]

but also don't let large numbers of failure stories to put you into paranoia over drive...gotta look at it and yourself as objectively as possible.

[Duckfeet]

Boy o boy, Duck: I sure hope you survive with this view intact: i'm not being codescending either...your view is the most common one, and why so many pick up the needle...my vew is the more experienced one...everybody who shoots up dope starts out believing the way you do, not the way I do...the trouble is, if I'm right, and you're wrong, the consequences are so lasting and severe...that's why, usually when some less experienced opiate "enjoyer" asks about IV use, we let'em know just how high the stakes are...sure, so far, you seem to have done fine...the large amount of failure stories are simply because a large amount of people who like opiates--and switch to the needle--fail.

This isn't paranoia, man...it's just reality. And I've yet to meet anybody who could look at drug use objectively...are you sure it's *this* guy you are trying to convince? I always kind of wanted to believe I could dabble in junky-land too, and hated the old fucks who suggested I'd better look hard down this road...we make the best of it, sure, have some laughs, got our t-shirts, but to pretend it's not dangerous as hell to play around here, is, well, your opinion, I guess...one of us is right. I guess this guy can shoot up dope now and then and find out.

but also don't let large numbers of failure stories to put you into paranoia over drive...gotta look at it and yourself as objectively as possible.

[duck]

I don't think our suggestions are mutually exclusive...you're saying that there is a damn good chance that you will get a addicted to the needle, and I'm saying the same thing -- just also pointing out that lots of people who are opiate addicts who try the needle never get addicted.

I guess it's just the libertarian in me, I don't like telling people what they should do, regardless the severity of the situation. I think our responsiblity in a situation like this is to just transfer facts, and not our interpretation. Fact is: lots get addicted, some don't. It's his call the rest of the way out -- I don't like getting involved in "warning" people very often, i find it almost always better to inform.

[RxQueen]

i've only got one point to add. someone already posted the thing about having tried shooting and being able to stop it, and that NOTHING would ever make them go back to it as far as having it ruin their life. (sorry i don't remember who posted it, and i didn't feel like going back to look... gotta spit this out while it's in my head... nothing personal to whoever said it, but it's something that gets said a lot.... and sadly, too often it's followed by a sarcastic "famous last words, eh?")

i just need to point out that no one should ever say that NOTHING would drive them back to the needle and possible ruin. you never know what life's gonna throw at you.... even when you have tons of stuff to live for, there's always the chance that someday, somehow some (or all) of those things will be lost to you. death and tragedy and bad luck and shit like that happen all the time. sometimes they happen all at once, and in a despondent moment the last straw breaks the camel's back. suddenly, it can seem like no reason exists NOT to just give in and jump headfirst into the deep end. and since that first-timer's needle-phobia is already long-gone.... well, it just makes it that much easier to fall, doesn't it?

[OverDriven]

just also pointing out that lots of people who are opiate addicts who try the needle never get addicted.


I appreciate your opinion, but this statement doesn't make much sense to me. You know lots of addicts that don't get addicted? How is that possible?

[underide]

You know lots of addicts that don't get addicted? How is that possible?

i might be wrong and not trying to speak for duck, but i think he means that he knows lots of opiate addicts who use opiates through other means than injecting, and having tried the needle more than a few times still manage to stick to their ROA's other than injecting, i.e not ending up with a life-long needle fixation...
Just a guess, though^^


and i have met enough of such addicts too

i can sort of understand where he's coming from
personally, once i've tried the needle i was hooked for good number of years, even while on the juice.
nowadays i just take my juice and hardly ever pick up a spike, unless it's for coke (which is rare nowadays too, especially in my current state -that just makes matters a whole lot worse)

but then again - i think that the methadone/benzo mix that i've struggled with for over a year now and still facing the consequences of, has been a sturdy substitute for the strong needle fixation i ended up with.
but i am truly sick of it all at this point, and it's bloody tough facing the music right now

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

I promised myself never to touch the needle and I have not broken that promise. I have no desire to ever shoot up, having a needle phobia helps too :p

[antifox]

i

i just need to point out that no one should ever say that NOTHING would drive them back to the needle and possible ruin. you never know what life's gonna throw at you.... even when you have tons of stuff to live for, there's always the chance that someday, somehow some (or all) of those things will be lost to you. death and tragedy and bad luck and shit like that happen all the time. sometimes they happen all at once, and in a despondent moment the last straw breaks the camel's back. suddenly, it can seem like no reason exists NOT to just give in and jump headfirst into the deep end. and since that first-timer's needle-phobia is already long-gone.... well, it just makes it that much easier to fall, doesn't it?

I think I was one of three or so people who said that. I still stick by what I say when I say NOTHING could make me go back. It's been years since I've been there, my opiate sources have been replaced by a prescription, and when it comes down to it: I like snorting or smoking more than I like needles. For that reason I could never go back. Now if I quit needles and said I was never going back, but everytime I got high I thought abut the needle or my personal opinion was that needles get me WAY more high/more enjoyable then there is a damn good chance i'd go back. But, the fact is, I don't really like it anymore than other ROA's so why would I go back to something that is less enjoyable on top of everything else I don't like too much about it.

Keep in mind I have IM'd ketamine a handful of times since then, but I dont' regard that as the same thing because it's the preferred ROA, it's in my leg, and it's not opiates. Plus it's liquid and I am not going to bake it down when I already have it in clean medical ampules. I regard this as totally different as well, because not once during my flirtation with ketamine and needles did I ever think/crave/desire needles for opiate use. Not something I enjoyed THAT much so why would I miss it?

The only IV opiates I have had since then have been in the hospital, and even then I never got enough dilaudid to feel the effects. The IV fentanyl was a totally different experience and got me petty wasted but in a drunk feeling as well so it was more interesting than desirable. Next time I go back i am going to ask for morphine or maybe hydromorphone again because it killed pain well.

[Duckfeet]

I've learned never to say never about anything that has to do with opiates...you loose your prescription, you get a neighbor/friend who is copping dope, you get all strung out in a bad way on snorting...

I don't even have to use my own experience for this one: my experience on this site alone, watching friends end up miserable, homeless, imprisoned, dead---all opiate IV users...it's a cold and natural progression to go from "I'll never touch the needle" to "I'll just do it once in a while" to "fuck it."

Thinking that the way you view things *now* is the way you will always view things, is a personal belief: maybe you're right, maybe not...maybe you won't go back, but certainly, obviously, have lost your fear of needles, lost that notion *most* people seem to have, that needles are associated with pain *shots!*...and one day you may not get this happy prescription, and then you might know somebody who knows somebody who can get some good heroin, etc...and that "IMing" you are so comfortable with might regroup and move to other areas....just because there are a few exceptions--so far--is missing the point of this thread...saying that *NOTHING* could make you go back...probably all of us have said that at one time or another...now we've learned to temper our words a bit...I haven't shot up any dope in months, hope I never do it again: that's how I feel today...I try to do some things so that I'll wake up feeling that way tomorrow...but tomorrow hasn't come yet.

There is a good reason, most people who are IV drug users, even those of us off them at this time, say beware. Do people listen? Of course not...but if they ask...


I think I was one of three or so people who said that. I still stick by what I say when I say NOTHING could make me go back. It's been years since I've been there, my opiate sources have been replaced by a prescription, and when it comes down to it: I like snorting or smoking more than I like needles. For that reason I could never go back. Now if I quit needles and said I was never going back, but everytime I got high I thought abut the needle or my personal opinion was that needles get me WAY more high/more enjoyable then there is a damn good chance i'd go back. But, the fact is, I don't really like it anymore than other ROA's so why would I go back to something that is less enjoyable on top of everything else I don't like too much about it.

Keep in mind I have IM'd ketamine a handful of times since then, but I dont' regard that as the same thing because it's the preferred ROA, it's in my leg, and it's not opiates. Plus it's liquid and I am not going to bake it down when I already have it in clean medical ampules. I regard this as totally different as well, because not once during my flirtation with ketamine and needles did I ever think/crave/desire needles for opiate use. Not something I enjoyed THAT much so why would I miss it?

The only IV opiates I have had since then have been in the hospital, and even then I never got enough dilaudid to feel the effects. The IV fentanyl was a totally different experience and got me petty wasted but in a drunk feeling as well so it was more interesting than desirable. Next time I go back i am going to ask for morphine or maybe hydromorphone again because it killed pain well.

[Ickyuck]

The only thing about needles is that, nothing beats or compares to instant gratification.

[antifox]

While that is true in probably 90%++++ cases you missed my little memo in the last post that I don't like IV as much as smoking or snorting H. I have tried all with extensive experience and I prefer different ROA's when it comes to heroin. SWIM has a little over three balls of tar and a ball of amazing white powder, so I have my fair share of skag. The heroin rush IV is not my favorite, and I hate needle everything so I know I won't return unless it was some random social thing with the right person, even then I'm not sure.

Snort
Smoke
Plug
IM/SC
IV


when it comes to H. I know I won't be doing it again or have a problem with it because it's not something I carve or want. It doesn't fufill my opiate needs and every time I think about IV I dread it because I am wasting opiates because it doesn't do it for me. I am very lucky in a way, but at the same time I wish I could enjoy that pin+needle+warm glow from the needle

[lotus]

d.f and ickyuck have said anything i could....

>aside from the people who can control syringe use - and i never knew any in real life<

the problem with needles, that i've seen, is that almost everyone who starts never stops.

fucking around with them a couple times - too many people cannot do this - and you won't know if you're one of them until you stick a needle in your arm.

the number of people i've personally known, who shoot every now and then *just for kicks* over an extended period of time, is zero......almost everyone who'd do it once, would do it again.....the most delusional would work out plans to try tip toe around it, but it's like quicksand, you just can't.

the need/feeling/want you get for more dope - wanting to use a needle is one in the same. i'm not talking about fixation, but what that method of administration produces....you can't get it any other way~

[Duckfeet]

I had seven years off of opiates of any kind, never intended to IV, *ever* again: had a good life, was happy, a pretty damned good big wave bodysurfer, blah blah blah...came to in a hospital, coming out of a 3 day coma from a paragliding accident and was getting IV shots of dilaudid. Wasn't my fault, wasn't doing any "drug seeking" behavior at all, very active (for an atheist) in AA, all that stuff.

The unexpected and familiar pleasure those dilaudid shots every six hours gave me in the hospital troubled me only a little, since I was what they called "highly motivated" to kick, once pain in head subsided (I had one concussion/knocked out from accident, another that same day falling down in hospital) I didn't miss "the life" of a junky, was older--just turned 50--was happy, how the *fuck* did I get all strung out again?

A normal person would have walked out of that hospital after a week, and gone back to their normal life...but I had long ago *lost* that fear of needles, and the IV shots were a *welcome* thing to me, and all my 'sobriety', all my 'good life off of dope' became a very weak counterbalance to the immediate pleasure I had never forgotten. We never do, IMO.

After trying so hard to kick, I just couldn't, was too wretched, and--totally ashamed--I looked up--online--local methadone clinic, and got on 21 day detox...it didn't work...knew a girl, got hooked up w/tar, and one more time, I was back in la-la land...and got on here, trying to find out how to 'fix' subutex...and met Nick and a few others, and here I've been, struggling 3 yrs in all the ways we struggle, once more w/the monkey that never leaves us.

Avoiding the needle. Sure, me too...:rolleyes: My attitude is never 'I'll never...' but "So far, so good..."

[SeVeN]

i just need to point out that no one should ever say that NOTHING would drive them back to the needle and possible ruin. you never know what life's gonna throw at you.... even when you have tons of stuff to live for, there's always the chance that someday, somehow some (or all) of those things will be lost to you. death and tragedy and bad luck and shit like that happen all the time. sometimes they happen all at once, and in a despondent moment the last straw breaks the camel's back. suddenly, it can seem like no reason exists NOT to just give in and jump headfirst into the deep end. and since that first-timer's needle-phobia is already long-gone.... well, it just makes it that much easier to fall, doesn't it?


I agree, and I think most people who have used the needle to get high, or struggled with it know better.

After telling myself many different times that "I will NEVER do that again", I've learned to tell myself that "I don't want to do that again" or "As of right now I have no plans to go that route again"

I do this for two reasons. 1) I don't know how things might change. (it shows naivety)

2) and just as importantly You really start to feel like shit when you have told yourself (and meant it) that you won't do this or that but break your own word.

So I've found I will be realistic and honest with myself.


Ok kinda out their but this just touched a personal issue so I wanted to blab about it. Thanks if you listened.

[Papa Verine]

I "chip" with the needle. Usually I snort dope, and if it had a high oral bio-availability I'd most likely take it orally.

I'm really most interested in maintaining. I would much rather be "not sick" for a day then get a rush for a couple minutes. I try to use the ROA that will keep me well the longest. I prefer long-acting opiates to short-acting ones.

If I had lots and lots of money I would be the opposite. I LOVE shooting heroin. But nowadays all my effort goes to staying well for as long as I can. This is why I would rather spend my money on poppy seeds then heroin. For $20 I can stay well for 2 days with PST. $20 worth of dope will get me a better high, but only for a couple hours. It's not worth it to me...

[The_Highwayman]

Not me....I'm sure others have said, will say..that the needle was as much as an addiction as the chemical in it...

[digby]

Over the years I've learned that unlike opiates, life is not a controlled substance.

When things come up, you always hope that you will be up to the task and able to make the best possible decision and have the power of will to carry it through, but until the actual moment arrives, you never really know.

I give myself B-12 shots regularly, so always have a quantity of pins around. Couple that with the fact that I often have a few dillies for CP and you would think that the table would be well set. Just not interested in going that route and I have made it well past 50. I've had shots of dilaudid and fent, and while very pleasant, it wasn't something I wanted to devote my life to. Kind of like sex. Although very pleasant, I am not going run around chasing women all day long in an effort to experience the "rush" of orgasm 3 or 4 times a day. But that's just me. The experience is obviously different for others, on both counts.

[nick]

but also don't let large numbers of failure stories to put you into paranoia over drive...gotta look at it and yourself as objectively as possible.

Quite right.Objectivity is required-which is ironic considering most of your posts in this thread are are full of subjective,anecdotal opinion- which is supposed to inform?That would be fine with some subjects,but on this topic..........it's pretty reckless and probably says more about you than anything else.

Spork,best advice I can give is listen to DF.

It's also worth pointing out that,with a little bad luck,one can really screw up each and every time one uses a needle and screwing up with a needle has some serious consequences.

[gameface]

It's also worth pointing out that,with a little bad luck,one can really screw up each and every time one uses a needle and screwing up with a needle has some serious consequences.

Very True. It took me a long time of smoking a 1/4 oz of Tar each day to switch full-on to IV. This was after already doing 20 IV dilly, OC and M shots previously. The reason it took me so long was b/c every time you stick a needle in your arm, you risk your life and I dont mean via overdose. a life ending mistake is quite easy to make given the correct circumstance. And dont be on a soap-box about how youll never put yourself in those kinda situations.

[skeezerjohns22]

I "chip" with the needle. Usually I snort dope, and if it had a high oral bio-availability I'd most likely take it orally.

I'm really most interested in maintaining. I would much rather be "not sick" for a day then get a rush for a couple minutes. I try to use the ROA that will keep me well the longest. I prefer long-acting opiates to short-acting ones.

If I had lots and lots of money I would be the opposite. I LOVE shooting heroin. But nowadays all my effort goes to staying well for as long as I can. This is why I would rather spend my money on poppy seeds then heroin. For $20 I can stay well for 2 days with PST. $20 worth of dope will get me a better high, but only for a couple hours. It's not worth it to me...
I agree my friend.. an entire day of being "sick-free", is of much more value than a 2-minute rush and being sick 2hrs. later.. It is all about maintaining and TRYING to make your DOC last as long as possible..i will admit that the latter of the two is easier said than done however..

[duck]

Quite right.Objectivity is required-which is ironic considering most of your posts in this thread are are full of subjective,anecdotal opinion- which is supposed to inform?

You're kidding, right? The entire basis of my argument is that there are plenty of people who can chip while using the needle. This is a fact. Even the greatest subjectivist would agree that that is an objective fact. If you think it is subjective, the only argument you can resort to requires you to disagree with the statement that a decent number of folks can, in fact, chip with the needle.

Beyond that -- you missed the point of the thread. If you reference the title and the original post, you'll see that the OP is not asking for life advice, he's asking if anyone can avoid the needle after having tried it. And, in my response, I'm clearly answering his question. So, I'm not sure what your problem is within the context of this thread.

Lastly -- the original poster is smart enough to realize that I am not advising him to pick up a rig and start shooting, because I and other had the ability to stop. I'm simply relaying facts, he realizes this and can analyze the facts and think for himself...he probably doesn't need your "advice."

[Spork]

Thanks duck, you summed that up very well.

[lotus]

I don't think I could get into that whole "needle fixation" thing.

My preferred ROA is through the nose, and I don't have some fixation with sniffing things when I'm out of my DOC.

I have heard people saying they would shoot water just to satisfy that needle craving.

Does that make sense to anyone?

i never exactly understood that version of fixation - for me, it was how fast and hard the shit hit.....it was all about the results, not the method.....and that meant i was fucked from the first shot.

it was always like that for me tho - people get all obsessed about the paraphernalia involved with their drug and ROA - little coveted collections - i never actually gave a shit. the resulting high from the drug being used was what i was fixated on......

shooting water......is fucking pointless - if it actually work'd, how'd you ever know if you'd been burn'd or not? i used needles heavily, and i loved using them.....but that, i never really understood.

[Duckfeet]

Me and Nick, have both seen where these stories usually end...Nick didn't miss the point of the thread, nor did I. The OP and you too, can believe what you want. We don't want to dishearten all you chippers and 'weekenders' , but at the same time we both know the inevitable ending, and figured we'd at least try to warn your new chipper off of this path he seemed to be hovering over...we know that people who are contemplating IV dope use are usually already gone, sure, but we'd be remiss if we didn't share our experience. And our experience, hard won, is obviously different than yours.

Maybe, many years from now, you'll still say the same thing...maybe not. but your argument that "this is a fact", is hard to swallow. Again, I say *everybody* starts out thinking that they are going to just be chippers, and do this "once in a while," and "can control it," etc." that's not a *fact*, that's just my experience...

The difficulty, is that we also want to encourage people, to do the best they can with this burden, to have some fun, to enjoy their lives, or even get off dope if they think they can...but one thing this site has been pretty consistent about, since I've been on here anyway, is to warn people off of IV opiate use, because I've seen few escape. This is true, Duck. Your experience and your 'facts' notwithstanding.

My own experience has always been, that people don't stay chippers. A lot more people on here are going to believe you, than they are me and Nick. I know that. I didn't want to hear this negative crap either. A long long time ago, when these NYC junkies over in Vietnam wouldn't let me try the needle. I thought they were just being dicks, but they said the same thing, basically, that I'm saying now. No hardcore junky really wants to see anybody else go down this road.

But I didn't pay any attention, and since I just did it on weekends and shit for years, working, having a girl, a life, and it was sort of subtle, but one day I found myself just another lowrent strungout junky, breaking into houses and pulling burglaries for a fix, then prison...a chipper no more.

Good luck to you both. I'm wrong sometimes, I hope I'm wrong now.

You're kidding, right? The entire basis of my argument is that there are plenty of people who can chip while using the needle. This is a fact. Even the greatest subjectivist would agree that that is an objective fact. If you think it is subjective, the only argument you can resort to requires you to disagree with the statement that a decent number of folks can, in fact, chip with the needle.

Beyond that -- you missed the point of the thread. If you reference the title and the original post, you'll see that the OP is not asking for life advice, he's asking if anyone can avoid the needle after having tried it. And, in my response, I'm clearly answering his question. So, I'm not sure what your problem is within the context of this thread.

Lastly -- the original poster is smart enough to realize that I am not advising him to pick up a rig and start shooting, because I and other had the ability to stop. I'm simply relaying facts, he realizes this and can analyze the facts and think for himself...he probably doesn't need your "advice."

[duck]

I don't mean to criticize your perspective -- as I have stated again and again, you and nick are correct in believing that many if not most people who IV heroin end up addicted to the needle. I just think it's important to know the whole story, regardless the potential consequences.

I don't think the OP read my testimony as encouragement to try it out. Maybe he did, but I feel like most people aren't that stupid.

[BillyPilgrim]

Gear is so expensive here that using a needle is practically a necessity. I had only snorted one bag before I decided to shoot and the main reason was simply cost effectiveness. And believe it or not, I think that it has made me a more conscious drug user. Maybe it's my paranoia about track marks but every time I use, I REALLY think about it. And if heroin was cheap and plentiful here, and snorting was a viable option, I doubt I would have that respect for the drug and would probably abuse it more.

[antifox]

I know in the junkie world, the overwhelming majority of the time when someone says they are no longer going to do something it usually isn't true. Some of them, like myself, have gone a long time (years) without IV use and say we will never do something. In actuality I know there is no certainty in all this, but for my mental sake, my determination, my will power, my self ego, and much more; I have to tell myself that I will never do it again no matter what. I just have to.

[Chipper]

The needle. Once you start, you start thinking about what else fits in the fit. It's the ultimate hedonist's tool.

Like eating with knives and forks. hell, even sporks. You don't really want to go back to using your fingers. Or travelling without a car after the first time you rode in one.

Most people I know keep shooting until they run out of veins, money or health. It gets so fucked up that people like me even shoot water, tea and even electrolytes and have made their own catheters and slow infusion kits. Now there's something to think about.

Stay away if you don't shoot. I call it a "blast" and that's about the effect it has on your usage and self-control.


.. it was either "jump in with both feet" now, or do it later...



I think that sort of advice is about bringing you down to their level. I've fought that kind of logic, all my life.

[Duckfeet]

And I agree: and I pretty much have to do the same thing, with perhaps just a more resigned attitude, but it's worked before a couple of times, so I hope I do the same...that's the real curse of these types of threads: I want to always, if there is any chance at all, warn off the curious and temporarily brave, and at the same time, encourage those already on this path, like me. I wouldn't be on this site, if I didn't understand the allure of opiates. But I've always felt that the biggest jump of all, the one I know changed everything, wasn't heroin in vietnam, but picking up the needle over in Florida.

But you're also right, really, we have to operate on a different level. I couldn't function if I thought I was doomed to fail...good point.

I know in the junkie world, the overwhelming majority of the time when someone says they are no longer going to do something it usually isn't true. Some of them, like myself, have gone a long time (years) without IV use and say we will never do something. In actuality I know there is no certainty in all this, but for my mental sake, my determination, my will power, my self ego, and much more; I have to tell myself that I will never do it again no matter what. I just have to.

[Duckfeet]

I know. And like I told another poster, I don't want to add any mental burdens to those of us already dealing w/this thing. We have to strive, to cope and to hope, and to adjust as best we can..that's the toughest part of this type of thread: warning off the dilettante without discouraging the rest of us. I realized your point, but I wanted to make real clear the stakes involved for those who might be lurking and curious, rather than make it seem like a reasonable decision that one can back out of, if it doesn't work out the way they'd hoped.

Not the first time--or the last--this type of thread, and these differing perspectives, will come up here...

I don't mean to criticize your perspective -- as I have stated again and again, you and nick are correct in believing that many if not most people who IV heroin end up addicted to the needle. I just think it's important to know the whole story, regardless the potential consequences.

I don't think the OP read my testimony as encouragement to try it out. Maybe he did, but I feel like most people aren't that stupid.

[nick]

You're kidding, right? The entire basis of my argument is that there are plenty of people who can chip while using the needle. This is a fact. Even the greatest subjectivist would agree that that is an objective fact. If you think it is subjective, the only argument you can resort to requires you to disagree with the statement that a decent number of folks can, in fact, chip with the needle.

Beyond that -- you missed the point of the thread. If you reference the title and the original post, you'll see that the OP is not asking for life advice, he's asking if anyone can avoid the needle after having tried it. And, in my response, I'm clearly answering his question. So, I'm not sure what your problem is within the context of this thread.

Lastly -- the original poster is smart enough to realize that I am not advising him to pick up a rig and start shooting, because I and other had the ability to stop. I'm simply relaying facts, he realizes this and can analyze the facts and think for himself...he probably doesn't need your "advice."

Sadly,I'm not kidding-I'm not that funny.I'm not going to deconstruct your post(tempting though it is),but I will say this.........denial isn't just a river in Africa,man.

[mikey5string]

i used to shoot coke like 4 yrs ago for a couple months. like on the weekends. then i watched a friend od and gave it up for a while. no problem. actually for ever.

got into pills and then H. usually eat pills. i will snort them occasionally. i snort H. however, i walked into walgreens to see if i could get pins and after a little back & forth i walked out with 10 1cc rigs.

so last month i shot about 12 times. thats like 8 days in a row and then ran out of pins and went back to snorting. no problem. no real desire to go back to shooting.

[The_Highwayman]

For me..ME only, I can't apeak for anyone else, once I used a needle on my Buprenex it was all over, I never wanted to take anything nay other way again..I even tried unsuccessfully and I don't condone it, tryingto liquify and shoot methadone when they were the 20mg "biscuits" before they got taken off the market, I tried or shot almost everything I got my hands on ,every pill, substance, even liquor one time....even when I was in WD's a shot of water made me feel better... that was actually one of the hradest things for me when I got away from heroin, breaking the needle addiction...

[LovemRx]

Shoving steel in your arm becomes a small price to pay once you are comfortable with shoving that steel into your arm. It's just a matter of getting over that fear and being able to do it yourself and not having to have a friend do it. DON'T DO IT. YOU WILL REGRET IT. Then you'll also probably do like me and IV every damn thing that possibly can be - back when I was using rigs every day I would IV water for the fun of it if I was dope sick, and when doing actual shots I would rinse the damn spoon & cotton atleast 3-5 times to make sure I got every single mg of drug that was in that bitch - actual addiction to the needle AND the drug. Bad shit man. Avoid it.

[Ickyuck]

Well today I couldn't avoid the needle. I was with a friend who got some sick dope. Ah well :rolleyes:

[LovemRx]

even when I was in WD's a shot of water made me feel better... that was actually one of the hradest things for me when I got away from heroin, breaking the needle addiction...

Damn straight man. I didn't even read this post before I posted mine above. Needle addiction is real shit and its hard as SHIT to break once you start. Plus, once you've got a strong habit for IV heroin, FORGET EVERYTHING ELSE, especially Lortabs/Percs/Oxys....that shit becomes straight worthless when your addiction gets bad.

[The_Highwayman]

Damn straight man. I didn't even read this post before I posted mine above. Needle addiction is real shit and its hard as SHIT to break once you start. Plus, once you've got a strong habit for IV heroin, FORGET EVERYTHING ELSE, especially Lortabs/Percs/Oxys....that shit becomes straight worthless when your addiction gets bad.

I had some fun shooting oxy's LOL

[repeek]

It has been a long time since I have posted, but this topic is about life and death.
Once you start on the needle; you have chosen death. You will die and some other person will forever occupy your body. Your family and friends will get to know some other person; you will no longer resemble yourself in any way. You will become a prostitute, you will lie to your family, cheat your friends; the depths of your self-destructive behavior will be evident to everyone but you.

You will first lie to yourself, it will become habitual……………….habitual liars lie to everyone!

Chipping is a lie………………..truth is; chipping is a perpetual state of withdrawal.

Don’t let anyone bullshit you, selling your body for sex is not the only way to prostitute yourself.

And; yes, there are a lot of junkies using other methods of partaking of the fruit of the poppy……….they have no more veins.

All kidding aside……….it is irresponsible to suggest trying the needle. Does it feel good? No, it feels incredible, so incredibly good you may be the only one of a million (several million) persons who can just put it away. The needle so changes you, that most of us who have experienced the IV rush of heroin; given the chance to go back in time, before we made a train wreck out not only our lives but the lives of everyone who loves us…………………would do it all over again making an even bigger mess of our lives.

[Dan Steely]

is 60 seconds of oh that feels really nice worth all that goes with being addicted to the needle? Have you ever read any posts of people that were glad that they started with it? I've often heard the rationalization that you get more for your money but within a couple weeks your tolerance will adjust up and negate that benefit so really the only point of iv is the rush which by all accounts lasts all of 1 minute.

[Paregoric Kid]

I have shot many different drugs up IV and SC but I prefer taking them by swallowing, sniffing, smoking/vaporizing, or taking sublingually or transdermally. the first time I ever shot up an opioid (heroin) I didn't get much of a rush, basically it just kicked in fast, at the time I already had a decent tolerance. it is a much more efficient way of taking drugs but I have a really, really hard time finding a vein but I usually need to take a benzo before using any kind of needle or having one used on me. I have a fear of needles because I usually get anxiety and I'm usually hypersensitive to pain, ever since I was a kid I had to get valium or ativan to have shots or blood work done on me. that with the fact that new, clean needles aren't as easy to come by in my state and the cost of maintaining an injectable opioid habit is beyond my resources is the reason I rarely inject any drug. I prefer methadone and opium, and since safe injectable forms of those drugs are rare and I've never came across them, I prefer to not inject them. the last thing I shot up was morphine and that was like 3 months ago. before that a while back I did dilaudid IV and about half or 3/4ths of a year ago I did ketamine SC. a week after I did my last morphine shot I tried shooting an oxy and got an anxiety attack trying to hit a vein; so I gave up and took it orally.
NOTE: most people I know who do use needles tend to keep using IV whenever possible, so I wouldn't say my experience is a common one. many don't use clean and safe injection practices so if you do decide to IV please always use clean needles with stuff thats injection safe or easily filtered to become injection safe, unless you have some kind of micron filter. the best and safest things to inject are ampules or pure powder.
also I don't know if its true but I recall either in some video or reading in some article that statistically most people who try any kind of drug don't end up becoming addicted, could be remembering wrong though I'll try and find it. but I still don't recommend trying it.

[Nu Jerzey Devil]

is 60 seconds of oh that feels really nice worth all that goes with being addicted to the needle? Have you ever read any posts of people that were glad that they started with it? I've often heard the rationalization that you get more for your money but within a couple weeks your tolerance will adjust up and negate that benefit so really the only point of iv is the rush which by all accounts lasts all of 1 minute.


Well for me the first question you asked depends, especially on which drug it is. When I was getting prescribed a boat load of Dilaudid, the only way I could enjoy them was with the needle, and I REALLY enjoyed them, in fact I would say IV dilaudid is my favorite opioid. With heroin, I also always use a needle, not because I am hooked on it necessarily (i'm sure someone will disagree with that) but just because I get more out of it than any other ROA. Dan, yes the rush is great and you are right it usually doesn't last more than a minute, but don't forget the high that follows. You are right, tolerance will usually rise a little faster, but I have found, and this is just personal experience, I am able to control how much I use, even with the needle (unless of course I am getting sick). Other stuff like Oxy and sometimes morphine, the needle isn't my preferred ROA. Everyone is different, and I am a big fan of the rush ( I can live without it, but if it's an option... i'll take it).

[Dan Steely]

One of my friends made the switch about a year ago and is now sticking himself 5 times a day and a bundle a day habit. His world is a bloody frantic desperate mess. Does that happen to everybody, no but one has to be honest with themself when considering it. If you can't manage a habit w/o the needle then it's pretty much a lock that bringing iv into the picture is going to make things much worse and it's very common to hear that people who were doing ok beforehand had their world turn to shit afterwords. This isn't a recovery site but harm reduction is it's focus. It doesn't seem even remotely responsible to suggest in any way that it is a good idea.

This world of opiates is a tricky and dangerous mess that has far reaching consequences. As an example, a young mother that I know almost died last week because 3 yrs ago I wanted to try oc. She is a friend of my buddy who knew where to get it but he only did so because of me. If I hadn't of used my influence with my friend to get that oc there is a good chance he would not have become a junky and turned that girl onto it as well. I know people make their own decisions for themselves but what we do influences them. Maybe enough to start them on a path that ultimately kills them or somebody they influence. Me I'll probably be fine but only god knows what wheels I've set in motion.

[Nu Jerzey Devil]

Wow, Dan that is a really good point and a scary one when you really think about it.... most of us don't even know the consequences of our actions all of the time, and certainly cannot foresee all of them, but everything we do has some sort of effect or another and it is hard to predict the magnitude of any outcome. If the point isn't already clear enough... to the original poster, stear clear of needles.

[seven10kids]

never shot up but I know I have put a life savings of 80s up my nose

[jcmanny]

Long story but this little story started 2 weeks ago.

One of my dealers has a steady supply of 8mg dillys and I have been itching to try them IV. I decided to give it a go and my wife wanted to give it go. We've been on a wild streak, trying all kinds of shit out. 6 year itch, talking about divorce, bad moon arising. Another thing we're doing is working on our bucket list. I went to the 24 hr drug store at around 4:30 AM (I was a bit high) and asked for ultra fine insulin syringes. The druggist asked me some questions which I had no idea how to answer but I tried my best. He let out a sigh and began ringing me up. I really didn't mean to buy 100 syringes but it was only $33.

The syringes were a bit on the small side as far as volume go (they were .3). By the time I got home my wife was passed out and there was no way I was going to shoot up myself. That night we cleaned everything, wiped everything with alcohol, managed to hit veins and felt a great rush. I was thinking the whole time what a fucking PITA all the prep work required to IV and couldn't imagine doing it in a gas station bathroom. I think we shot up about 3 times each but never was able to get that first rush which was to be expected.

The next night she tried some h and didn't feel a thing but did get a nasty reaction to the cut. I didn't get a good rush off my dillys due in part to the small barrel of the syringe. She had trouble hitting a vein.

We got into a fight the next night and I got pissed and smashed the syringes. A few days later we decided to try again and I went to another drug store and the female pharmacist wouldn't sell me any syringes. I argued with her about Michigan doesn't require a script to purchase syringes. I was clean and well dressed as we were going to the strip club after I scored. I had on $450 sued/leather sport coat and dress shirt so it's not like I was some grungy looking addict. Bitch.

After the strip club I went back to the 24 hour store and the same pharmacist was there who sold me the first syringes. I asked for a box of BD .5 ultra fine blah blah and he said "Didn't you just buy 100 the other day?". I said yes. He asked if I used all 100 and I said "no, it's a long story. I'm going through a divorce". He stared at me for a minute and I used my best addict liar face. He sold me the syringes and even made small talk.

I scored some h earlier that night and holy shit, I couldn't believe how fucking great I felt. We scored some h from the same dude the next night and my wife tried some and didn't feel shit. I tried a larger dose and didn't feel much either. We did notice that the h smoked really well though. Fucking shit is too complex. I think we may have shot some dillys.

That was last friday and we haven't shot up since. My time line may be a bit off as we're smoking fentanyl. I don't have any desire to shoot up again. My wife says that basically she had a few good dilly rushes and one great buzz from h out of 3 tries. She says if she could get h that she knew would work then she would try it again but neither of us have a needle fixation. It probably helps that she has small veins and I managed to miss on each fucking arm leaving 2 bruises.

I've shot coke 3 times back in the 80s and my wife had never shot up before.

[digby]

I don't know.....drugs have always had a mystique to them. That is why so many millions around the world have been attracted to them in one form or another. And the needle has always represented one of the forbidden zones, complete with its very own mystique and tantalizing dark side. Maybe you folks that have gone there no longer see that viewpoint, but I think most that haven't tried the needle are all too aware of it.

Movies embrace and romanticize the negative elements and the desperation. In the 60's, there were the college kids that smoked weed and maybe the odd acid trip on the weekend and some others that fed off the edges of the hippie experience. But some threw caution to the wind and walked away from everything to experience the ultimate high - freedom - taking the plunge with no safety net, no life line and no regrets, at least til later.

For me, the needle has always represented that same freedom of commitment, but to a much darker lifestyle. It appeals as much to the shallow thrill seeker as it does to the moody artist who feels that suffering in a cold water flat is a prerequisite to the artistic process or a hundred other attitudes filled with either a penchant towards recklessness or even towards self destruction.

Anyway, that is how I see it. But I'm just an outsider looking in. It seems you either live or have lived the lifestyle or you haven't, just like you have either done acid, or you haven't...or you have been in "Nam or you haven't. It's an interesting club, but the price of membership has always seemed too steep for me to actually take the plunge.