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View Full Version : IV Morphine, react vingear



johnny27
06-18-2006, 03:06 PM
In my dreams, I like to drink somni-gods stinky tea, packs a good punch. I know opinion is somewhat diveded about wether the morphine is being converted to Mono-Acetyl-Morphine or not, but it does seem to produce a stonger effect in my dreams and others.
If one, was to have morphine sulfate or hydrochloride, and was to mix the substance with water and ideally some high percentage white vingear, and heat the solution, then let cool, and hook into a vein. Would the effect be similat to herion, if indeed the morphine had been changed to MAM which i read is as potent as herion and produces the same rush, euphoria. Also read that MAM is a metabolite of herion in the body.
Anyone have any expereince of shooting MAM? or details on whether the whole vinegar theroy would acutally react to form this. And also, could it be dangerous to IV a soloution containing vinegar? Thank you very much, i would love to here some replies, as the subject needs more investagation or anyone's experiments. Thanks

devilsdrug
06-18-2006, 05:37 PM
no, there is much dicussion on this if u care to search no , no and probably

superman
06-19-2006, 02:07 AM
"I know opinion is somewhat diveded about wether the morphine is being converted to Mono-Acetyl-Morphine or not"
you are mistaken. the only people who would lead you to believe that vinegar acetylates morphine are those who think the entire scientific community is conspiring to keep this information away from them.... lol, no really it just doesn't work

johnny27
06-19-2006, 08:28 AM
thank you very much for clearing that up.

So what is it that making the vingear tea stronger? I presume its the simple fact that its a good acidic liquid to pull out more goodies?

As regards using the search engine, i've read plently of articles on here about the subject, alot in somni-gods tea thread, also there was another thread about this topic about reacting morphine before shooting, although the experiment was never completed, so i thought i would create this thread to see if there was any results.

devilsdrug
06-19-2006, 08:36 AM
ok here is the deal as i remember ha yu would hav to heat the vinegar too long too hot to change it to acetic anhydride that it would destroy what u have in spoon

johnny27
06-19-2006, 08:39 AM
ok here is the deal as i remember ha yu would hav to heat the vinegar too long too hot to change it to acetic anhydride that it would destroy what u have in spoon

I've read that the point is not to change it to AA, but the acetic acid actually makes a type of reaction with morphine to from MAM, not AA to make DAM
I quickly realizing this is BS?

devilsdrug
06-19-2006, 08:48 AM
shit i dont know dude alls i know is it dont work like some said

johnny27
06-19-2006, 08:51 AM
thanks very much devilsdrug for your input

superman
06-19-2006, 09:16 AM
acetic anhydride cannot be prepared from dilute acetic acid by heating or any other method i know of.
acetic anhydride can be prepared from glacial acetic acid though it's a pain in the ass and beyond the scope of this forum

the only reacting acetic acid will be doing is with freebase morphine, in which case it will be forming morphine acetate, the only benefit being that it is now water soluable and becomes a component of your tea.
mam dam jam sam and pam are all irrelevent, lol.

I'm afraid if you want to acetylate morphine, you're going to have to build a lab to make AA or find a place that will sell it, which i have been told is not impossible in small quantities.

johnny27
06-19-2006, 09:41 AM
thank you superman, you've cleared things up for me, and maybe settleted the issue for good. Thanks man

superman
06-20-2006, 01:44 PM
no prob johnny, but rest assured, this topic will resurface in a day or two. misinformation is hard to ignore when it grants such wonderfull wishes

vaxn8
06-20-2006, 04:50 PM
details on whether the whole vinegar theroy would acutally react to form this. And also, could it be dangerous to IV a soloution containing vinegar?

I've read that the point is not to change it to AA, but the acetic acid actually makes a type of reaction with morphine to from MAM, not AA to make DAM
I quickly realizing this is BS?




Some of the questions were already answered, so I'll skip those....

About i.v. vinegar: Vinegar will have a concentration of acetic acid somewhere around 5%. This varies by brand and type of vinegar. You could easily calculate the pH of a 5% solution if you look up the pKa. If the vinegar what was for injection was further diluted by other solvents (water, saline, whatever else you are using) you would lower this percentage further. I would bet that vinegar would have to be diluted before it would reach a pH that was safe (and comfortable) to inject.

The comments above were correct, acetic acid is never going to acetylate morphine, at least not in this atmosphere or planet. It is going to simply act as an acid.

Paregoric Kid
06-21-2006, 01:57 PM
perhaps tiny amounts of morphine would be convereted to 6-MAM, probably more so with a strong concentration of GAA. however, it's likely it would be almost, if not, entirely morphine acetate.

jacky
06-21-2006, 02:56 PM
what about thebaine and codeine, or salutaridine/reticuline...could these compounds be affected by acetic acid?

johnny27
06-21-2006, 03:38 PM
Okay so its def not changing morph to MAM. So what is the reason, why PT and vinegar is alot more potent than normal PT? I'm sure its not placebo, as i've experimented many times with and without and there's a good difference with vinegar and lemon juice, even better again adding alcohol, but thats obvious why.
Could it be as simple as this, that the PT is stronger with vingear because its pulling more alkoloids from the pod material? due to it being an acid

stvip
06-22-2006, 04:21 AM
Of course, you can search the scientific literature instead of relying on the arrogantly ignorant, misinformedly malformed opinions of posters. That seems like a hideously unpopular choice around here, though. Hell (or Heaven), it's possible to acetylate morphinan alkaloids with even less likely agents than GAA. Quarendo invenientis.
As for me, I don't think I'll continue posting in these forums. Good luck, everyone.

johnny27
06-22-2006, 06:05 AM
stick around man, always need more info from clever opi-heads around here, i personally would love to hear more info from you. Cheers

johnny27
06-22-2006, 06:07 AM
What is your opinion Stvip, on GAA and morphine?

stvip
06-22-2006, 02:08 PM
What is your opinion Stvip, on GAA and morphine?

I mispelled 'quaerendo invenietis'l. Look at my previous posts. You also won't have to look far and long to find alternative acetylating agents (especially if you're content with partial acetylation).

SirDonkeyPunch
06-27-2006, 12:15 AM
Acetic Acid Will NOT Produce any amount of 6-O-monoacetylmorphine and this is why:

When we have morphine and we want to make it into heroin we must add 2 acetyl groups onto the morphine this is used with the oh so infamous Acetic Anhydride. Now when we add only 1 acetyl group to morphine we get 3-O-monoacetylmorphine which is a lot LESS active than its fellow companion 6-MAM. When you have 3-MAM all you need to do is add another acetyl group. 2 acetyl groups : DI-acetylmorphine.

So where does 6-MAM come from. Well when we have diacetylmorphine we can "deacetylize" it at which point it yeilds 6-MAM. Apperently through the method of hydrolosis you can convert 6-MAM back into morphine but who wants to do that anyway.

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/pictures/homebake.fig3.gif

that is a good representation of what this cycle looks like.

stvip
06-27-2006, 07:31 AM
Acetic Acid Will NOT Produce any amount of 6-O-monoacetylmorphine and this is why:

This is useless.

"We have also followed C. R. A. Wright's [/URL][ [URL="http://www.unodc.org/unodc/bulletin/bulletin_1963-01-01_1_page008.html#f004"](4) (http://forum.opiophile.org/) ] procedure for producing alpha-monoacetylmorphine by reacting morphine alkaloid with glacial acetic acid; the alphamonoacetylmorphine so prepared had an infra-red spectrum identical to the spectrum of the 6-monoacetylmorphine prepared by the reaction of heroin and hydroxylamine hydrochloride."

Tar_Baby
06-27-2006, 08:15 AM
Keep in mind that boiling heat destroys morphine. When you cook a shot of smack and it starts to bubble you are heating too much..you CAN fuck your shit off

That said, I have no idea about your main questeon. No need to do home chemistry when theres so much good dope on the streets

johnny27
06-27-2006, 02:17 PM
This is useless.

"We have also followed C. R. A. Wright's [ (4) (http://www.unodc.org/unodc/bulletin/bulletin_1963-01-01_1_page008.html#f004) ] procedure for producing alpha-monoacetylmorphine by reacting morphine alkaloid with glacial acetic acid; the alphamonoacetylmorphine so prepared had an infra-red spectrum identical to the spectrum of the 6-monoacetylmorphine prepared by the reaction of heroin and hydroxylamine hydrochloride."

Back to my orignal question. So are you saying that morphine when reacted with GAA, say concernrated vingear after evapouration, will produce alpha-mono-acetylmorphine?
Will this chemical have any significant advantage over morphine if one was to IV inject it? Would it produce effects closer to the whole Dia and hydromorphone strengh drugs?
Or would it not be worth converting morhpine to this chemical? Thank you very much for your replies

SirDonkeyPunch
06-27-2006, 02:41 PM
well it all depends on whether when the morphine gets acetylated it becomes 3-MAM or 6-MAM.

i thought it would only yeild 3-MAM while others feel differently.

3-MAM is a lot less active than 6-MAM and it would be better just to do the morphine. If you can find conclusive evidence that the resulting chemical is 6-MAM, its got a real high bioavailability and would be the best course of action.

SirDonkeyPunch
06-27-2006, 02:52 PM
This is useless.

"We have also followed C. R. A. Wright's [ (4) (http://www.unodc.org/unodc/bulletin/bulletin_1963-01-01_1_page008.html#f004) ] procedure for producing alpha-monoacetylmorphine by reacting morphine alkaloid with glacial acetic acid; the alphamonoacetylmorphine so prepared had an infra-red spectrum identical to the spectrum of the 6-monoacetylmorphine prepared by the reaction of heroin and hydroxylamine hydrochloride."

i looked through this document and it had some good info thanks. However when morphine does not get completely acetylated the levels of 3-O-monoacetylmorphine rise. I beleive even with an evaporated vinegar sample it would be hard to get a complete acetylation of all the molecules. I have no experience in this practice so my arguements are up for grabs. Thats just what seems logical to me

stvip
06-27-2006, 04:22 PM
Ok, I'm in a (slightly) less pissy mood, so I will graciously deign to answer your questions. Yay for us. So, the paper (and if you have searched my previous posts, you have a link to the full paper, and a relevant excerpt from the cited one) refers to GAA - Glacial Acetic Acid. This is non-aqueous, pure, acetic acid, a readily available chemical. Several people here (on different threads) have erroneously, yet assertively, offered their creative interpretation that acetic anhydride is simply dehydrated acetic acid. This is false, and evinces a rudimentary lack of understanding. The point is: according to the forementioned two articles, GAA (which is not AA and is far more easily available) can be used to produce 6-MAM selectively. This may very well be surprising (due to theoretical Organic Chemistry reasoning), but I see absolutely no reason to doubt the findings presented in the articles (it should be noted the theoretical Organic Chemistry reasoning is often hogwash, as Org Chem is more practice and art than science). Now here's a little lagniappe:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1826129&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum
And the related:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=529038&query_hl=6&itool=pubmed_docsum


Now we wait until a new thread asks the same questions, then I can happily shoot myself (A: no, not in the good way and B: none of you are laying hands on my stash after I'm gone).

SirDonkeyPunch
06-27-2006, 10:55 PM
Ok, I'm in a (slightly) less pissy mood, so I will graciously deign to answer your questions.

Well thanks for spending your valuable time clearing that up. No need to get upset, i thought this was a community where we all could learn. Thanks for your insight into processing 6-MAM. In any case, although i know i will most certainly be corrected, i thought that 6-MAM was only able to be processed through multiple procedures rather than simply mixing morphine and GAA together.

johnny27
06-29-2006, 05:12 PM
Thanks to you stvip, some really important questions are being answered in opiate chemistry, ppl can experiemnt now, knowing that they're not getting placebo when the scientfic evidence on the net proves that there is parital acetylation (sp?) is taking place , thanks man.

I would like to try that "backache" product in your link Stvip, it contains 3mam and 6mam, simply by reacting under heat with asprin and paracetomol, and some GAA probaly would'nt go a miss. Bet it would be a nice product to smoke.

superman
06-29-2006, 07:30 PM
here's a hypotheical scenario for you all to consider:

you have 50 grams of pure morphine base. will you: synthesize heroin w/ AA thus achieving the maximum pharmacological activity from your precursor? or will you synthesize some weaker shit using diluted AA?

for anyone willing to put the time and money into this project, how to proceed is a non-issue. one way or another you are going to have to acquire a controlled reagent (the GAA or AA), and lets just say you lazy as fuck, and happen upon some GAA and since your lazy as fuck you decide to buy it instead it AA, why not simply make AA from it so you can get your time and moneys worth?.

opiate chemistry is so well understood that straying from the norm is a waste of time and money, unless your interest is purely scientific, which for anyone reading this, it isn't.

devilsdrug
06-29-2006, 08:16 PM
ah ah fuk again and again unless u hav aa, that is acetic anhydride stick one thumb up ur ass and one in ur mouth and just pray for some different pleasure than ur already gettin

stvip
06-30-2006, 01:05 PM
I would like to try that "backache" product in your link Stvip, it contains 3mam and 6mam, simply by reacting under heat with asprin and paracetomol, and some GAA probaly would'nt go a miss. Bet it would be a nice product to smoke.

Probably. Just get rid of the ASA first (reminder: it is poorly soluble in cold water). Also, I'm not sure whether the paracetamol is necessary, or helpful. Unfortunately, I do not have access to the full articles, so I don't know the relative amounts of the products obtained.
You can safely ignore Superman's displays of cerebral effluvium. As for DD: everything I've said is backed up by references (in fact, I have only been stating the findings from those experiments). Why cling to unsubstantiated opinions while ignoring facts?

This community is a waste of time. Despite banding together people with similar interests, it's clear the community is neither interested in learning (as shown by the responses on this and other threads), nor in concerted activism (as is shown by, for example, noone bothering to organize boycotts of vendors selling pure kratom alkaloids, despite the fact that will most probably lead to kratom and its products being outlawed soon). It's a nice way to pass time, though, I guess.

northernstar
06-30-2006, 06:54 PM
Naaah! u can shoot stright whiter viniger. it about 5% and iam guessing that with boiling the acetic acid amount reduces a lil. ive used it to extract tough goo-pills. its worthless on non-gel (MYLAN silicone polymer)fentanyl patches tho....but if it killed you id be dead,lol. altho i dont know how, cuz i shoot china white, fuckers selling chiva would rip people off by sucking the dope out of the chiva, then selling the leftyover brown crap. u could tell tho cuz it smelled vinigery, i ran into this in seattle, i guess vinigers pulls the product OUT of the tar leaving worthless crap behind.

SirDonkeyPunch
07-01-2006, 04:46 PM
here's a hypotheical scenario for you all to consider:

you have 50 grams of pure morphine base. will you: synthesize heroin w/ AA thus achieving the maximum pharmacological activity from your precursor? or will you synthesize some weaker shit using diluted AA?


6-MAM is equivelant at least if not more superb euphoria than straight dope. just an FYI

However you cant yeild 6-MAM using diluted AA, its a bit more of a detailed process than that. check out alt.drugs.heroin, they tend to have fascinating conversations of 6-MAM.
Also normal heroin isnt just straight diacetylmorphine. In a mass spectrometer and using gas chromography, tar and white samples both contained morphine, 3-MAM, and 6-MAM in addition to the Diacetylmorphine.

If you had 50 grams of pure morphine base you could synthesize some weaker shit than H, but then again you can synthesize some more powerful stuff depending on your chemistry skills.

MissingOxy
04-11-2007, 09:10 AM
Many moons ago (early 1980's), SWIM had morphine base (lots) and rather than using acetic anhydride, he used acetyl chloride. Efficient in that with AA, water molecules are produced by the reaction and limit the yield; with AC, the waste reaction product is HCl gas.

WARNING: acetyl chloride will react VIOLENTLY with water, and the result is two acids including hydrogen chloride. Ventilate thoroughly, use protective gear, HCl gas is CORROSIVE.

SWIM wishes he still had a bottle of it, though... used the rest to synthesize banana oil (amyl acetate) from amyl alcohol.

Papa Verine
04-11-2007, 10:44 AM
Many moons ago (early 1980's), SWIM had morphine base (lots) and rather than using acetic anhydride, he used acetyl chloride. Efficient in that with AA, water molecules are produced by the reaction and limit the yield; with AC, the waste reaction product is HCl gas.

WARNING: acetyl chloride will react VIOLENTLY with water, and the result is two acids including hydrogen chloride. Ventilate thoroughly, use protective gear, HCl gas is CORROSIVE.

SWIM wishes he still had a bottle of it, though... used the rest to synthesize banana oil (amyl acetate) from amyl alcohol.


May I ask why you wanted to synthesize amyl acetate from amyl alcohol?

MissingOxy
04-11-2007, 11:48 AM
May I ask why you wanted to synthesize amyl acetate from amyl alcohol?

Moved to a place where chemicals couldn't go, so I was just practicing organic chemistry with what I had laying around to get rid of. Like I said, now I wish I still had the bottle, but we're talking a lot of years.

Karlin
04-16-2007, 01:04 PM
And also, could it be dangerous to IV a soloution containing vinegar?

I did notice a sharp buring sensation in my vein when I used "Citric Acid" in an amateur attempt to keep my morphine solution from globbing up.

That cannot be a good thing, eh? - But someone here says shooting straight vinegar is okay - so whats the story?

dan46
09-28-2007, 01:56 PM
"I know opinion is somewhat diveded about wether the morphine is being converted to Mono-Acetyl-Morphine or not"
you are mistaken. the only people who would lead you to believe that vinegar acetylates morphine are those who think the entire scientific community is conspiring to keep this information away from them.... lol, no really it just doesn't work

----
Not quite true:
glacial acetic acid with trifluoroacetic anhydride (simple unwatched item) can be used at ROOM TEMP
for a respectable conversion of morphine to heroin

see my post in the other long thread on here--the one with morphine to heroin

I have links and full process listed--- which is a cakewalk no-brainer

There are also other methods which do not require acetic anhydride and are MANY times better at YIELDS than any direct acetylation with aa or ac
check the RHODIUM page on the net for them

rachamim18
09-28-2007, 05:30 PM
In theory any GAA will work . AA is preferred because of time, it does it in half as much time as the next best, and does so at 95C which is just right to keep morphine from degrading. A chl. is sometimes used because it can do it in twice the time as AA but is less wtached. Vinegar would do it, with many,many hours and very little efficiency.

Missing oxy: Good point but then not many peopel acetylyse inside anyway...This being the internet though it is good you said it.

ALL GAA produces nasty fumes under heat, or even at room temp in poorly ventilated spaces so as with any chem always use caution and read as many data sheets as you need to understand the substance.

dan46
11-09-2007, 03:06 AM
True for fumes but you cant beat a simple room temp use of
AA and that nasty trifloruo. I posted about in the other thread--short period, too!
FAST and basically just as good yieldwise as a long 22 hour AA cook!

I cant believe people dont jump on it but I realize it is a new process
Seems the people in that country in the asian/ mid-eastern region is really going for it though:)

rachamim18
11-12-2007, 03:47 AM
Dan, I have posted about it here as well, a year or two back. I have also posted about that on BL and a couple of other places. It is best to use DMAP though although the rxn is longer (only 20 minutes on average, longer, but still loner) it is a more stable rxn.

It is not new either, almost 20 years old, BUT, the problem is in securing the catalysts. If you have a Sigma account no problem but the casual chemists has a difficult time even figuring out how to get the GAA.

dan46
11-12-2007, 09:06 AM
HMM
That's strange as I found GAA to be very easy to come-by in the past
The other chem ( T-acid) I have not attempted to procure
I was unsure of the best solvent to use for an extraction of the 'honey