Anyone Else Get Discriminated Against For Being "So Young"?

[BrokenPens]

Yeah, so I've been running into the issue where even though I have no medical history of addiction or abuse, I've had doctors treating me like shit when it comes to giving me pain meds. Luckily, I managed to finally get great gastro and pain mgmt docs, so I don't have issues getting scrips... it's more when I'm stuck in the E.R. I did go through when pain mgmt doc who flat out said he doesn't give Oxy to patients that are so young and refused to prescribe anything till my drug test came back and only IF it came back clean. He stressed if. Then he said I could make the next appt in a month... since when does it take that long to come back. My gastro went off on him and I got to see his partner, but the ass insisted that the new doc drug test me AGAIN. 2 visits, 2 piss tests. I came back clean though. Ha ha.

When I go to the E.R. (which is ALWAYS on doctors orders), I've had several docs flat out say I'm not giving you pain medication... I never ask for it at E.R.s, they give you more when you don't. The one actually looked at me and said, "I'm not giving you pain meds, do you still want to stay?" I then pulled out 5 50 mcg Fent patches and bottle of 70 7.5 mg Vicodin and said, "That's fine. Can you just rehydrate me and maybe give me something so I stop throwing up blood? That'd be dandy!"

I may only be 23, but I've had my disease for 11 years. What's great is my doc loves me and when the e.r docs do that (usually it's a young, female doc who does it) he calls and gets them reprimanded because he's the head of his department.

Anyways, just wanted to see if anyone had similar experiences and what you (or SWIM) did about it.

[Duckfeet]

I agree with you: when I was much younger, I felt like every doc thought I was a junky, even when I had broken legs, torn up neck disks, gout, all kinds of painful shit. Generally, and I expected it, they were a lot more forgiving of older people, and I figured that if I somehow survived my youth, that I'd be like the other old farts, happily getting my dilaudids once a month, and watching the world go by.

Unfortunately, I got older right when the online databases got really entrenched: last ten years particularly, and also, the DEA began it's huge crackdown on docs prescribing opiates--whether for legit pain, or just "friendly." And the final curse, for many of us, is that pills--specifically oxycontin--somehow made opiates very well known to young people, and thus began the latest battle of the Drug War...so even being old doesn't save you from this shit anymore, best I can tell...mostly because my past lives and breathes on the computer right in front of the doctor's face.

It's just a bad time to need or like opiates, regardless of age.

[Nonphixion]

All I can say is hell mother fucken yea. It sucks.

[Narkotikon]

I don't deal with doctors that often, but when I have gone to the ER in the past and was honest with them, they definitely treated me like shit. I'm not old, but I'm not that young anymore either. I'm 29. The last time I was in an ER was at age 27.

The best I can tell you is that you should keep your current doctor as long as possible. Unfortunately, yes, doctors will be assholes, especially when it comes to narcotics and your age. It's just going to happen. It doesn't mean it's right or should be done, but it is done. Just be thankful you have a doctor like you do, and when you have to go to the ER, I guess try to be nice if they are nice, but if they do treat you like shit I wouldn't be extremely nice to them either. I mean, don't go throwing things at them or anything. But if someone is being a dick to you, I feel like you have every right to be one back to them. Although, there is something being said for choosing your battles. I think some doctors just have very arrogant personalities. They think they're gods, and know everything about you when they've never even met you before. That's not being a god or a good doctor, that's discrimination.

I really liked how you whipped out your Fent and Vics to that one doctor. Had I been a nurse watching, I probably would have laughed uncontrollably.

[SHELLEY]

yet another reason why heroin is better than pills ;)
it's illegal for everyone, so age doesn't matter

[dieselbaby]

yet another reason why heroin is better than pills ;)
it's illegal for everyone, so age doesn't matter

Brilliant....:rolleyes:

[Duckfeet]

That's right: just carry a gun if you look like a geezer...young crackheads can be so rude, if they are encountered on your merry way to the dopehouse...:)


yet another reason why heroin is better than pills ;)
it's illegal for everyone, so age doesn't matter

[Larry]

If you under 30, You really have to expect this type of shit. I personally just experienced this... The comment was " You shouldnt be taking these at such a young age", I mean wtf though if your pain at the age of 28 or 38 whats the difference, ya know?

[oxy kid]

I had a pharmicist tell me that one time too. I gave him my script of 90 Lorcet 10s along with some muscle relaxers and Naproxen, and he said, "you shouldn't even be taking any of this other than the naproxen."

[Woody Bear]

There was a real bitch of a doctor at hospital who told me, "Morphine isn't good for young people". She wouldn't increase my dose even though my functioning went down, and I could no longer eat or walk to the bathroom because I was in too much pain.

[BlueMajick]

there was a doctor about a year back that wanted to prescribe me vicodin for a sore throat... i turned it down, but how i would love to have a sore throat and that doctor now... i was only 20 at the time, so wasn't discriminating against me i suppose.

[JonnyM]

If you under 30, You really have to expect this type of shit. I personally just experienced this... The comment was " You shouldnt be taking these at such a young age", I mean wtf though if your pain at the age of 28 or 38 whats the difference, ya know?


Exactly.

Like you have to be a certain age before you can experience real pain... it's bullshit.

However I don't even want to pretend that all doctors are like that, when I got in my car wreck, they had no problem putting me on roxi and oxycontin even though I am pretty young.

and the other day I went in for a sore tooth, the doc precribed me 35 norco 10/325's ... I couldnt really complain... I mean that is pretty generous of an ER doc.

However I have also been the victim of "you are way too young to be on opiates, lets explore every opportunity before that... even if it leaves you in extreme physical pain"

and when that happens, It's time to find a new doctor... one that is compassionate of other human beings.

[Burtron]

I'm 24 and am scripted 24mg of hydromorphone a day for multiple disc herniation's. So I'm not really discriminated against. But I have a great relationship with my doc, so maybe that helps.

[God_Albino]

i've never had a doctor or pharmacist mention my age (except at the Mayo, where they told me pain meds would increase my pain the older i got), i think i'm just flagged so they treat me like shit when i go to the ER (like my doc tells me to do), i got my own pain meds too, sometimes my body just goes beyond what taking a pill can fix and then i go there and get the junkie look and am back on the street within two hours regardless of pain or mental state.

[Thai_Stick]

SWIM was 16 or 17 when he was at 100mg a day between BT (roxi) and CP (perdues) meds. He definitely had a legitimate reason for them, but did experience some discrimination from some docs, mostly because some of them were pediatric docs, while the "good one"'s patients were more of a geriatric type.

[Uncle Wiggly]

It's really a bitch to be young and have chronic pain. There is the whole credibility factor, which I think is bullshit but that's not going to stop it from happening. My wife's an RN and I get an insight into what goes on behind the scenes once-in-a-while. The sad fact is that a lot of docs just don't buy into the fact that younger people can have chronic pain. Perhaps they are members of the "Flat Earth Society" as well. :D

Another aspect of this is the old "jumping through the hoops et al before finally finding adequate pain management. This is something most, if not all, of us CPers have had to cope with. Unless you happen to be lucky enough (or unlucky enough) for your problem to be obvious and easily diagnosed through standard diagnostics, you'd best be prepared to start jumping. I'm not trying to sound unsympathetic. It's just a fact of life.

On the other side of the fence there is something else to consider. If you have a good doctor, and not one hell-bent on covering his or her ass, there are some very legitimate concerns. One for example is this. Say you're twenty-something years old and have a condition that's going to be with you for the rest of your life. If your doc starts you out on a high dose of a strong narcotic, where do you go from there as you age and your condition worsens?

It's kind of like "Suffer a little now so you won't have to suffer a lot later." I'm over fifty and I'm thankful I didn't get the whole-nine-yards thrown at me early on. I'd definitively be up shit's creek without a paddle. I realize it's not the most comforting thing to hear when you're in a lot of pain but if you think about it for the long-haul it does have advantages. Providing you have a doc that's not just looking to cover his or her ass. Lot's of "ifs" thrown in this post. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

[JonnyM]

On the other side of the fence there is something else to consider. If you have a good doctor, and not one hell-bent on covering his or her ass, there are some very legitimate concerns. One for example is this. Say you're twenty-something years old and have a condition that's going to be with you for the rest of your life. If your doc starts you out on a high dose of a strong narcotic, where do you go from there as you age and your condition worsens.

I have to completely disagree here uncle w.

Suffering doesn't depreciate as time goes on...

Say you are 20 and you are on a large dose for 20 years, yeah maybe you will have to figure out something when you get to be 40, however the same applies to someone who is 50, in 20 years you are both in the same boat, and the suffering continues despite age.

ya know? At least thats how I feel on it.

[OpiXPO]

Just keep upping the dosage? Their isnt a ceiling effect to the pain management that opiods offer is there? Aside from Demoral that is, which causes you to be toxic after a while

[digby]

No ceiling on analgesia, but there are ceilings on side effects for different people. Imagine the joy of moving and trying to explain to your new doctor that due to tolerance your last doctor as prescribing 72 mg of dilaudid every 4 hours and would you please write a script for that amount please. (I've heard of one fellow supposedly up to that amount). Lets see...that would be about 1600 8mg pills a month. I can't even imagine the constipation issues at that level.

In all honesty, I think it can be done and if someone is in terrible pain at any age and only opiates successfully treat the pain, then that should be the option of the one who is in pain. Most people that take opiates for a really long time have to battle tolerance and do it with discipline, will power and a whole lot of tapering and withdrawals. A few lucky ones don't seem to have to do that, but most aren't so lucky. I've been doing it for about 18 years now and it only gets harder. Even with tapering and dropping my tolerance down, it seems to go back towards its peak more quickly with every passing year. I can see why starting young is discouraged. But hey, no one has the right to make that decision for another.

[OpiXPO]

I think any doctor would shit a brick if you asked them for 72mg of dilaudid, let alone every 4 hours, just after walking into their office and saying so.

[Indy]

Tolerance effects constipation too. Ever seen somebody with a 400mg a day oxy habit cut down to 100 mg hydro? major diarrhea.

[nick]

No ceiling on analgesia, but there are ceilings on side effects for different people. Imagine the joy of moving and trying to explain to your new doctor that due to tolerance your last doctor as prescribing 72 mg of dilaudid every 4 hours and would you please write a script for that amount please. (I've heard of one fellow supposedly up to that amount). Lets see...that would be about 1600 8mg pills a month. I can't even imagine the constipation issues at that level.

In all honesty, I think it can be done and if someone is in terrible pain at any age and only opiates successfully treat the pain, then that should be the option of the one who is in pain. Most people that take opiates for a really long time have to battle tolerance and do it with discipline, will power and a whole lot of tapering and withdrawals. A few lucky ones don't seem to have to do that, but most aren't so lucky. I've been doing it for about 18 years now and it only gets harder. Even with tapering and dropping my tolerance down, it seems to go back towards its peak more quickly with every passing year. I can see why starting young is discouraged. But hey, no one has the right to make that decision for another.

I'm not sure about this,man.There maybe no ceiling to the amount of opiates one can take,but there is a point where an opiate will stop working and even start to cause pain.I can't remember the technical term,but we have a member called Gingersnap who was having this problem.

To answer the question,no matter what age you are your pain should be mediacted.However,I totally agree with doctors being wary of rxing opiates to young patients and agree they should try other options first.

Edit,I believe it maybe called hyperanalgesia.

[Duckfeet]

I think what people are saying here, is yes, docs can and are, biased...but the other point being made is just to be aware that tolerance increases also, and there does seem to come a point where "nothing much works" anymore, and to be seriously all strung out, and in bad pain is terrible, since the fear of kicking is magnified...and just for the record: being old doesn't really make it any easier: docs are just gunshy now, bigtime, and I don't see that getting any better...they are so scared of the DEA, or overdosed kids *parents* throwing lawsuits on them, that even with *obvious* pain, they don't like to prescribe...and the fear I've always had, when at high doses, is that I can't *go* anywhere, for fear of loosing doc. Chronic Pain people coexist uneasily at times with us junkies, but regardless of all that: these are just hard times for people who want or need opiates...and to be fair, very hard times for docs too, particulary those *outside* of ER's...they gotta big sword hanging over them, and they know it...

[digby]

I'm not sure about this,man.There maybe no ceiling to the amount of opiates one can take,but there is a point where an opiate will stop working and even start to cause pain.I can't remember the technical term,but we have a member called Gingersnap who was having this problem.

To answer the question,no matter what age you are your pain should be mediacted.However,I totally agree with doctors being wary of rxing opiates to young patients and agree they should try other options first.

Edit,I believe it maybe called hyperanalgesia.

You are correct Nick, but hyperanalgesia is a side effect of chronic opiate use for some people and is one of the side effects that I was referring to. I dated a chemo nurse for 10 years and listened to some really interesting stories. One patient even had sever cancer pain well controlled at enormous doses of narcotics, but when she tried to reduce her tolerance by limiting the dosage for a time, she was finally in excrutiating pain and the doctors attempted to get in under control by increasing her dosage up to and way beyond her original tolerance, but they were never able to control her pain again, no matter what amount of opiates they used. She died in agony.

There seem to be no hard and fast absolutes with opiates, but for the majority of people, they never reach a ceiling where opiates are no longer effective.

[Jega001]

It’s unfortunate we live in a society that shuns the treatment of pain in a sorta reverse-age discrimination way. It’s just the world we have though, whatcha gunna do. I found when I was young and had to go into the ER, and even now in my 20’s I’ll still do this if at all possible, I’ll have my father come with me. There’s this mentality with Dr’s where if you look under 40 (sometimes even if you look 40 or older and we call those doctors Assholes! :) ) but come in with a close family member such as a parent or the like who corroborates your story then you can’t be a drug seeker because this guy who doesn’t look young agrees you’re in pain. It’s really a shame.

[Swellin]

Jega i do the same thing, at the moment im on 40mg of morphine and 10mg of oxy for bt. But i still go the ER and have been in and out since i was 18, i am now 20 and when ever i go i make sure my mom or my step dad is with me. Even when i went to my family doctor i always have my mom with me just so he does not think im drug seeking which im not.

[ox-e]

To be fair I have been on Opiates since i was 16, I didnt start getting prescriptions for oxy and dilaudid and fent until i was 18-19.(the hospital had no problem IVing them though)I have a chronic pain condition and the way the doctor explained it to me was, If he was ever investigated he has to show reasonable proof he tried everything before going with opioid treatment otherwise he is liable. Soon as i turned 18 he told me "this is gonna help you ALOT more" and wrote me a script for 240 roxy 5 IR's. From then on all I have done is went up. Having a real pain condition helps alot, especially when you have the best doctor in florida referring you to the pain doc.

The age thing is bullshit, I have been lucky enough to never have that issue doctors. But I get it all the time when I go to diff pharms, Now I stick to one and only one pharmacy. The pharmacy I go to now is kind of ghetto but they always fill my script within 5-10 minutes. The issue is that alot of drug dealers and "thugs" hang around, sometimes the fiends even come up asking what you just got and if it was any oxycodone or anythin to get high off that they will pay well. I always stash my shit in my pants call me paranoid but ive seen the people waiting outside that shop fiending. when someone is hurtin real bad from dopesickness they will do anything. Im not exactly the biggest person and although its illegal I still carry (ccw less then 6 months).


Like I said call me paranoid but ive seen 2 people robbed outside 2 seperate pharmacies while they yelled "U GOT ANY OXY VICS PERCS XANAX HAND EM OVER NOW" to old ladies. Other doctors have frowned upon the dosages I receive but my answer is normally (you arent the one in pain, I started off on vicodin and over the past 3-4 years the only thing thats changed is my tolerance and it keeps going up) Being young and requiring pain medication can really suck, thats why I have had the same doctor ever since, I have seen how other doctors and people judge me. Alot of people tihnk "oxycodone" and instantly think OMG HES ON HEROIN YOU COULD DIE ARE YOU AN IDIOT.

Whatever though, I have met people with chronic pain before, including older folks in their late 60s and they say it sucks and to stick with it. Everyone has their pain relief one way or the other. I go in for MRI/EMG tests again in a few days as im pretty sure something else went wrong or possible spreading which has me really worried, Took me almost an hour to type this post due to the pain spreading to parts of my fingers.

[hovadagod]

When SWIM was 21 a doctor (ROP) used to rx him 2 of the 15/80 hydro/apap every 4-6 hours. SWIM had to convince him to rx so much because doc was like "your too young to be taking this amount of narcotics...its bad for your liver". SWIM was like "I thought it's the APAP that is bad" and doc said "it's the whole thing". But the whole time he knew he was goingto cave. That same doc rx'ed SWIM subs not knowing anything about them except taht they were CIII or whatever htey are.

[Ozzy]

You are correct Nick, but hyperanalgesia is a side effect of chronic opiate use for some people and is one of the side effects that I was referring to. I dated a chemo nurse for 10 years and listened to some really interesting stories. One patient even had sever cancer pain well controlled at enormous doses of narcotics, but when she tried to reduce her tolerance by limiting the dosage for a time, she was finally in excrutiating pain and the doctors attempted to get in under control by increasing her dosage up to and way beyond her original tolerance, but they were never able to control her pain again, no matter what amount of opiates they used. She died in agony.

There seem to be no hard and fast absolutes with opiates, but for the majority of people, they never reach a ceiling where opiates are no longer effective.
the correct term is hyperalgesia. as in eventually, doses of PK cause MORE pain, hyperalgia. hyperanalgesia is extreme removal of pain.

[digby]

the correct term is hyperalgesia. as in eventually, doses of PK cause MORE pain, hyperalgia. hyperanalgesia is extreme removal of pain.

Thanks for catching that Ozzy. I meant to say it correctly, but I'm afraid that the word analgesia has been branded into my psyche over the last couple of decades. There have been some recent studies that show hyperalgesia to be more of an effect of morphine alone rather than other opiates/opiods. It would be nice to know that the pain one is feeling isn't being augmented by one's chosen remedy.

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

I'm 27 and still get that LOOK from docs.

[30_Units]

I used to have a dentist that would only give me four tylenol+dextropropoxyphene after having a series of double-root canals and cavity fillings all over. He was a fuck to go to.

When I got an abscess in the work he did that finally swelled to an unbearably painful size, we went back to this guy where we live now. He asked me where I got the work done, and told me to go back there. He could tell I was really in a lot of pain, and wrote me a script for 30 30mg codiene phosphates. Tells me to hurry because it's 4pm, and we fuckin live 40 miles away, so I'm gonna have to wait another day with this insanity.

The bitch dental assistant told me to wait up front, and once we were away from the doctor, she took the prescription to "proofread" something, and brought me back a script for 30 ibuprofin 800's. Fucking bitch.

We just left, and thankfully, the place 40 miles away stayed open for us, and the new guy was an old dental professor who'd gone back into practice. Old guy-really nice. He had to drill through the cap with no novacaine because the abscess' pressure just kept squirting it back out-gross I know.

I was fuckin out of it by the end, anyone doing a lot of dental work knows that feeling I'm talking about-where you've just been gripping the chair in a lot of pain for hours and it feels a lot like torture. Sucks.

Guy was really good about hooking up the vicodin es'. Told me to go home and take four and then adhere to the dosing schedule. I was tapered down to like 5mg 'done at that point and got really high from those vicodin, surprisingly.

My experience, two out of three doctors suck dick. ymmv.