Painless Detox... Possible.

[StackBundles]

I have been meaning to post on this for months and have never got around to it. I have read a few posts recently that had similar ideas as to what I am about to discuss, so I decided it was time to get off my lazy ass and post this.

I am going to outline the basic procedure that I have used to detox a few times that were relatively painless when executed.

The gist... When I needed to detox I would stabilize at a known does for a few days, dosing around the same time each time. Once I was in a groove I would stop dosing... And wait. Once I started to feel the signs of withdrawal coming on I would wait a few hours, until I started to feel real crappy... Then dose... A little less than my previous dose. Say I was doing 100mgs of O.C. Once stable, I would than drop down to 95mgs the next dose.

I would repeat the process until I was down to such a small dose that I felt comfortable to quit altogether.

Doses can be adjusted for personal comfort. The main idea behind this is to make sure that you are fairly well into withdrawal before your next dose and to make sure that your following dose is SMALLER than your previous one.

Having the meds on hand seems to make it easier for you to be able to endure the withdrawal that you experience while waiting to redose. Oral medication such as oxycodone also seem to make this easier, especially in regards to dose calculation.

I suppose that there are a few reasons behind why this tends to work, but I don't want to get into theorizing why this seems to effective.

Hope this helps people out.

Stack Diesel.

***Also, how come we do not have a forum specifically for withdrawal/detox???

[asplinteredfawn]

Cos' it's a depressing subject. You tottaly killed my buzz dude!

=oP

[Spork]

We do have a forum for withdrawal! http://forum.opiophile.org/forumdisplay.php?f=99

I plan a painless kick tomorrow. I'm going to combine 10mg of naltrexone with some Ondansetron (zofran) which has been shown to significantly reduce withdrawal symptoms. Wish me luck!

[BlueMajick]

I've been wondering about why there's no specific forum for withdrawal/detox myself.

Anyway... I don't think I've ever tried it this way stackbundles... I've always tried stabilizing at a dose for 2-3 days, then dropping a little, then stabilizing at the new lower dose for another 2-3 days.

Your method i guess would get it over with much quicker, depending on how large of a dose you were starting at i suppose, but being less drawn out, and making progress continually might be a good thing... because i think time is what discourages a lot of us... like if we plan a taper, with a few days at each dose... you're going to be looking at like 3 weeks ahead of you for your end point, and that amount of time may be unfathomable for some.

So, I'm curious, when you get down to say, 5mg (if it's OC like in your example) what happens after a period of time, do you still start feeling withdrawal symptoms, and then tough it out a little longer...but instead of re-dosing you just have to keep toughing it out, or is it really pretty painless at that point? I guess, what I'm asking is are there going to be physical symptoms at that point... like night sweats, diarrhea, sore muscles/restless legs, etc? or is it just going to be dealing with the mental cravings?

[chopstix]

It's true, WD can be made in payments.. I've been doing it for years with the help of comfort meds, fuck CT..

Vicodin is awesome for an end-of-taper jump med..

[JonnyMohawk]

We do have a forum for withdrawal! http://forum.opiophile.org/forumdisplay.php?f=99

I plan a painless kick tomorrow. I'm going to combine 10mg of naltrexone with some Ondansetron (zofran) which has been shown to significantly reduce withdrawal symptoms. Wish me luck!


I'm not sure I would do this... I've taken zofran for withdrawals before, and perhaps it did help, but I would say it was minimal for sure.

However if you do decide to do this report back and let us know how it goes.

[digby]

Well, I wouldn't say it is entirely painless Stack. Many times during a taper my timing was off just a bit - and I had waited too long before redosing and lay there shaking, sweating and quivering waiting for the pill to finally kick in. Also, for me tapering down the dose to a more beneficial tolerance level was far easier than actually eliminating the last 10 mg of a drug habit. I have heard any number of times of methadone users getting down to the last 2 to 5 mg and simply unable to stand the withdrawals that come up to bite you at the very end. But 'done is supposed to be the worst that way - never experienced it myself.

Also, you need the patience of Job. I mean, I always get impatient and end up rushing my tapers, which causes me far more discomfort that if I stretched it out over a much longer time. But spending more than a month withdrawing to be drug free even for a day is not something I would relish. I figure a month max, and that is about as long as I will go.

[LongKissGoodNite]

It's true, WD can be made in payments.. I've been doing it for years with the help of comfort meds, fuck CT..

Vicodin is awesome for an end-of-taper jump med..

I completely agree. I once was shipped off to another country for work and decided to use that as a way to kick .. so I had a pretty nasty 260 mg oxy habit at the time so I weaned slowly to 80mg .. then I took about 10 20 mg oxies with me .. the little pink ones .. i also had proglumide at the time and kratom and vicodin .. i was able to wean way way down and then jump with only 2 or three nights of RLS and that was it DONE.

THen I got back home and strung myself out again .. but anway .. it can be done .. I just dont have the will power unless im completely isolated away from the dope-man

[Duckfeet]

I finally realized I just don't have the willpower to do it on my own terms...and I hate that...but anyway, only "painless" detoxes I've had, in last ten years, were: stabilize on a low dose of methadone--maintenance, not the 21 day detox, which never worked for me--usually 30-50mg daily, max, and then do a slow-3-5 month detox, dosing at clinic every day. At the same time I had to get "out of junky mode" u know, say bye bye to my local fiends friends and dealers, and all that, start going outside, even go to AA meetings, the whole nine yards...and slowly detox to where I find going to the clinic an irritation at the end, but still don't jump, until I get way down, around 1-3 mg, and it becomes ridiculous, and I stop going...I never even noticed that detox, either time...

The problem for me, wasn't the detox, it is in not getting the "2-3 month off dope blues", and start thinking "Oh I can do a handful of vicodin, or "what's a few oxys gonna hurt me" or "just this once, I'll go see what my boy downtown is up to..." or "I haven't been down to Mexico in a while, haha" I have to do the "day at a time" thing, and remember that I'm a lifer, regardless of whether I'm off the shit or not...best wishes to anybody on this path.

[StackBundles]

The worst I had to really deal with when jumping near the end was a little restlessness and night sweats. I am sure that personal body chemistry comes into play here... I suppose the half life of the substance you are using comes into play here also, which is why I recommend a short acting opiate/oid for this procedure.

As far as having to deal with the withdrawals before the lower redose, that shit isn't too terribly bad. I don't know if it's just me, but man, it seems like people are wayyyyyy over dramatic when it comes to withdrawal symptoms. It really isn't that fucking bad. I've had a few nightmare jail detoxes off of decent habits and in the end, they are nowhere close to the worst experiences of my life. The fact that you have a redose available is enough to lessen the symptoms/psychological burden that detox creates.

When it comes time to completely abstain from the opiate I am sure that a few comfort meds would help. Even with a freakishly huge habit a taper of this nature after a month would GREATLY reduce withdrawal symptoms if you were to quit CT.

It is logical to assume that this method is allowing your brain to adjust to lower and lower levels of exogenus opiates and do what it needs to do to deal with that, along with the short periods of mild detox you experience which seems like it would force your body to start prepairing itself to start replacing endorphines when the time comes... Or to produce more endo as the exo levels slowly drop.

I dunno'. I have had some success with this. I am about to try it to get my intake of Bupe down to non-existant. We shall see how that works.

***Also, as DF said, the hardest part of detoxing is the mental aspect. The physical most people can deal with.

Hopefully, this procedure helps those out who are mentally prepaired to abstain from dope, even if for a short time.

[nick]

I guess painless is a relative term.

Hell,one way or another it ALWAYS hurts eventually.

[Duckfeet]

You talking about heroin, true love, detoxing, constipation, "life" or sitting on a tack?...I swear we should start selling t-shirts ;)

I guess painless is a relative term.

Hell,one way or another it ALWAYS hurts eventually.

[nick]

You talking about heroin, true love, detoxing, constipation, "life" or sitting on a tack?...I swear we should start selling t-shirts ;)

Hell,all of the above,bro and a lot more ."It always hurts eventually,"is what is referred to as a truism,otherwise known as a statement of the bleedin' obvious.

[jo-jo]

Man, swim wishes she had the willpower for this. Is swim has the pills/pods/whatever on hand then she is gonna take them then be like "oh shit" when there's only a few left and w/d's are close at hand. :(

[Shadowsblaze]

I can see this working as I do something similiar. I can mix my sprayer to insulfate roxi and it works great, with 5 sprays each nostril throughout the day as needed and getting a small buzz each time. It wears off quicker than a whole pill but each pill creates alot of sprays and the bottle can last a long time so much so that I can easily save 2 pills the first day 3 if I stretch it and as long as I do it through the night waking to do so I can save 10 pills in 5 days for a good party night or I could keep dropping the dose, I believe with little discomfort. But I have no desire to quit using do to the pain. This method is not effective on pain. I tend to use up to 10 sprays each use and enjoy the results with insulfateing a pill ever 2-3 hours so I don't usually try to save any unless I have plans to be on my feet for any length of time. So if I ever have to quit this will be my route.

[lib.sOCialist]

Seriously, good luck with your kick stack. stay strong brother.

[Spork]

Lol I took like 3 mg naltrexone today and went right into precip withdrawal for 4 hours. That was a lot of fun, not.

[JonnyMohawk]

not sure what you thought would happen spork?

[Duckfeet]

I'd rather hit myself repeatedly upside my head with a hammer in a cold shower :rolleyes:

[antifox]

I have found suboxone withdrawals to be 1/10 of oxycodone, dilaudid, and heroin withdrawal and probably 1/20 of fentanyl withdrawal. They are longer lasting and there is this 2-3 months period of random withdrawal but supressed cravings (you give up one for the other). If you can get to a suboxone doctor at least try to score 10-15 tabs for tapering. The reason I say this is because 10-14 days of buprenorphine taper allows you to drop your dose much faster than with another opiate and when buprenorphine leaves your receptor sites it does it more "gently" and consistently than any other opiate. I highly suggest it.