Minimally Addictive Thai Opium

[zketrouble]

Northern Thailand is notorious for excessive secret opium plantations, many consisting of dozens of acres out in the middle of the jungle. A few years back when I was fifteen or sixteen, home alone in Pai, Maehonson, Thailand, I stumbled upon an opi.um bargain that gave me quite the buzz. Had me nodding like mad. Virtually ZERO itching. Not long ago I went back up to Pai and stumbled upon the same dealer (Pai is a very small town, I was expecting this). I smoked this stuff every day, up to 8 or 10 pipe sessions a day for 10 days and went cold turkey with no withdrawal symptoms. I don't know if it would satisfy IV H addicts but this stuff got me going just as good as smoking H did without the itch.

As an undergrad biochemistry student, I am strongly considering working with Thai opi.um to see what the active ingrediant is. Depending on which batch of dead flowers you have, the active ingrediant will generally be either codeine and/or morphine. I presume a form of opium containing heroin could be produced (and might exist), instead of acetylization of pure morphine simply acetylize the plant matter, however the demand for this wouldn't be high as the people who seek diacetylmorphine (H) generally want the pure stuff and not a flower processed to contain a small amount of the narcotic they seek. One question to whether or not opium can contain H is whether or not there are any substances in the plant matter which would react adversely.

What about this stuff made it so intoxicating yet so minimally addictive? This is why I want to find out whats in these red dead Thai flowers. Is an unusual, uncommon opiate present? Despite the fact that I had virtually no withdrawal symptoms on either of these Thai opium journies, I presume that withdrawal would occur after extensive use. Is it non-addictive? Doubtful. Can it be used as an effective substitute for other opiates? Possible but unlikely, maybe 1 in 50 or 1/100 chance.


Has anybody else had any similar experiences with opium? Is all opium like this? I've only tried the stuff in Northern Thailand.

Right now I am praying to the magical red flower that I get the permit necessary to do my research legally at Chiang Mai university, everybody hold your opium up in the air and pray so I can attempt to become the Albert Hoffmann of opiates lmao.

[Duckfeet]

I loved Thailand, took every R&R and leave there I could...and they had even better heroin than Vietnam, in bigger vials...strange place tho...we actually had a detachment up in Chiang Mai, and I *knew* I should go there, but I went back to Vietnam instead...cool cool country...be careful tho...every once in a while a gringo will step on the wrong toes, and...well, I'm sure you know a lot better than I do about all that...and I felt for the longest time that I didn't seem to have as much problem even with heroin--and I did opium too, in Vietnam, as far as withdrawals...but I think the body has to get kind of habituated to the dope, get used to it, so to speak, and then you kick hard...I don't think it has to do with different versions of opium, myself...dope is dope, and all opiates are addictive...most people I know, find that the longer they are at it, the more the old endorphins and shit get immediately all addicted, even on lightweight pain pills...kind of like tolerance: experience doesn't help...welcome aboard...

[Morphus]

If you had never had a habit before, then I can see how you might think there was something special about the thai O, it actually took me quite alot of opium abuse before I picked up WD symptoms, and even then, they were pretty mild at first; just some general malaise, achiness and insomnia. I can remember using every day for a month and then only feeling a little "off" on the days without. Of course over time, as your addiction "matures" the WD becomes much, much worse. Oh how I wish I could go back to those early kicks..................and stay off once the worst had passed.

[Opiyum]

Took me almost two years of a great deal of Oxycodone use to develop withdrawal symptoms.
What Morphus here said is very accurate to how my physical dependance came to be. Even when I first made the connection that the it was the lack of pills or dope that was causing the insomnia, achiness and general malaise (which were for me the first three symptoms that I noticed followed by restless legs then body temp problems) I still wasn't in full blown withdrawals. That and the fear of withdrawal soon enough did come but physical dependance can take a hell of a long time to both partially and full develop.

[nick]

minimally addictive...that's like saying some one's minimally dying.

Still,should be a golden age for thai opium since the big crackdown on the wa.

[zketrouble]

I called it "minimally addictive," because all the other op.iates I have used even for shorter periods of time have produced at least some withdrawal. Dil.audid for four days had me feeling really, REALLY shitty for over a week. OC produced mild withdrawal for me after 5 days of medium use. I didn't have the balls to try using H for longer than one evening, and had no withdrawal because I didn't use it for long. This opium got me going just as good as every other op.iate I have tried; just as good as H, better than OC or Dil.audid. This stuff is the finest I've found for a 10 day vacation for the people who are avoiding addiction. I've already dealt with a meth (yes, that filthy shit.) addiction and I'm sure H is much worse so I like shit that allow you to party hard for a week or more and leaves no trouble going cold turkey. As I said before I doubt it is non-addictive. I used the word "Doubtful" in the post where I should have said HIGHLY doubtful. But its great for a short period of time and maybe has the potential for weening other opiate addicts off.

I'd appreciate it if somebody experienced could answer this: If one were to use H heavily for 10 days would he experience any withdrawal afterwards? Thanks.

[nick]

I called it "minimally addictive," because all the other op.iates I have used even for shorter periods of time have produced at least some withdrawal. Dil.audid for four days had me feeling really, REALLY shitty for over a week. OC produced mild withdrawal for me after 5 days of medium use. I didn't have the balls to try using H for longer than one evening, and had no withdrawal because I didn't use it for long. This opium got me going just as good as every other op.iate I have tried; just as good as H, better than OC or Dil.audid. This stuff is the finest I've found for a 10 day vacation for the people who are avoiding addiction. I've already dealt with a meth (yes, that filthy shit.) addiction and I'm sure H is much worse so I like shit that allow you to party hard for a week or more and leaves no trouble going cold turkey. As I said before I doubt it is non-addictive. I used the word "Doubtful" in the post where I should have said HIGHLY doubtful. But its great for a short period of time and maybe has the potential for weening other opiate addicts off.

I'd appreciate it if somebody experienced could answer this: If one were to use H heavily for 10 days would he experience any withdrawal afterwards? Thanks.


No,not unless you had a history of addiction.It's subjective,but if you haven't had a habit before it can take weeks(about 2 months) before you get your first habit......at that point you're screwed.

[Opiyum]

You have a very distorted view of dependence. I say dependence because what your talking about in this thread has nothing to do with addiction. That is if you go by the definition that the insurance companies use.
Like Nick said it's all very subjective. There is no magic number of days that if you cross then you are all of the sudden dependent. It's a process that takes a long time and has more to do with behavior and lifestyle than it does counting days.

[upstate_007]

minimally addictive = shitty/weak.

eventually, "minimally addictive" is no longer fun, strong enough or economically sensible. enter heroin.

[oxy kid]

Theres a thin line between addicted/not addicted. I used to could play and play...for short periods and then longer periods....and then came the LONGGGGGGGGGGG period and what did we get?....addicted.

Sound like a smart guy. Welcome to the board. I take it you are at a university in Thai? I really want to get over that way one of these days. I'm hoping to graduate in May, so maybe if that happens I can hop on a plane to a few places before the real world sets in.

[zketrouble]

Theres a thin line between addicted/not addicted. I used to could play and play...for short periods and then longer periods....and then came the LONGGGGGGGGGGG period and what did we get?....addicted.

Sound like a smart guy. Welcome to the board. I take it you are at a university in Thai? I really want to get over that way one of these days. I'm hoping to graduate in May, so maybe if that happens I can hop on a plane to a few places before the real world sets in.




I'm going to college online via an American school, however I go to Chiang Mai University to take the tests and do labwork.


If you go to Thailand I would advise you to avoid the south, the beaches are nice but tourist infested cities get old after a while. The north is the place.




I've never been addicted to an opiate. I've been thru addiction, but physical dependance is something I have never been through and hence don't understand too well. I appreciate everybody's criticism, its teaching me about it.

[oxy kid]

Man, just stay on your side of things and you'll be ok. But when it becomes a horrible addiction, then one day, like most of us, you'll wish it was back to the good ole days.

[zketrouble]

minimally addictive = shitty/weak.

eventually, "minimally addictive" is no longer fun, strong enough or economically sensible. enter heroin.


That statement has much to do with semantics. Is a highly "addictive" substance one that is really easy to get hooked on or one that is really hard to quit?


A substance can be very enjoyable and while it is easy to want to use it again like a child begging his parents for another peice of candy, it can still be enjoyable. If used only on ocassion (giving the child his candy only every now and then) then it wont produce withdrawal symptoms (as the childs blood sugar drops to dangerously low levels. Not near as likely to happen as opposed to narcotics use but you get the analogy I'm sure.).

[dharma bum]

Like Nick, Opiyum and others, it took me many cycles of using and stopping---using again and stopping again before major w/d hit me, each time gets worse and worse until you get a sniffle or yawn, then "Yeah, i'm about to start withdrawing I better score soon." mentality sets in. Each time the withdrawal is compounded by the fact that your life is going to shit. So you get high, nobody wants to deal with that. So, each time sobriety is worse and worse. That's why it is a damn near superhuman feat for myself. I mean ZERO opiates for me right now is a damn nightmare.

If you could limit yourself to say once a month, you might might avoid full blown w/d. I would be willing to bet though that each time becomes more and more unpleasant---which might prompt one to use again.

Oh, my experience is with O.see. mainly. I have never w/drew from H but i think for the most part it's the same.

[oxy kid]

I'm with you on that. I'm terrified that I'll be a miserable depressed zombie when I eventually get off these subs. I mean, I know I'm not nodding off everyday, but technically, I'm still on opiates. Lets hope this sober thing can be as good as some people make it look.

[upstate_007]

That statement has much to do with semantics. Is a highly "addictive" substance one that is really easy to get hooked on or one that is really hard to quit?


When dealing with opiates, in my opinion, the quantity/quality has everything to do with it. The withdrawals from a 30mg a day codeine habit are light years from a 2 bundle a day heroin habit. Both are addictive in the sense that they are opiates, but higher strength and dose equals a greater hell when stopping. With the "minimally addictive" opium you talked about, the withdrawals are very easy to deal with probably because the substance is not very strong in opiate content. Which is not a bad thing. Believe me.

[zketrouble]

getting high on life aint that easy no more once you're used to getting high on dope.

[zketrouble]

With the "minimally addictive" opium you talked about, the withdrawals are very easy to deal with probably because the substance is not very strong in opiate content. Which is not a bad thing. Believe me.


This is why I found this stuff so good. In my opinion this stuff was as good as H without the itch, and it didn't give me any physical withdrawal symptoms. Of course I enjoyed it and want to, probably will try it again, I am not (yet) going through anything unpleasant. OC for 5 days gave me mild withdrawal, HC for two and a half weeks taken as prescribed also gave me unpleasant withdrawal.


Perhaps the H I tried was not too great and I never experienced what many of you consider "good shit". Looked fine to me (not that I've seen much), it was powdery with a few chunks that made it look like it was broken off of a rock and was not quite white, a very very mild yellow tinge to it.

[Duckfeet]

Yep...but even getting high on dope isn't all that easy, once you're used to getting high on dope...;)

...and, to paraphrase Nick: once you learn the true lessons about being addicted to opiates, it's too late. I've seen many people on this site think that different drugs--from pods to bupe--weren't as addictive, only to find out there really is no free lunch when it comes to opiates...William Burroughs even wrote about that, describing the opium suppository crew thinking they weren't really junkies...sure they weren't, until they ran out...

getting high on life aint that easy no more once you're used to getting high on dope.

[Deadfiend]

Northern Thailand you say, I'll be down there in a few min.'s to help you out....:p

[jacky]

addiction is a strange bird.

I know a person who has had spontaneous remission from a 10 year heroin habit....he kicked with god. no withdrawals...at all.

when I first started using heroin, I would use a small amount at nighttime only...around 10 pm. I didnt use in the morning or afternoon.
I used for a few months at a time...and didnt suffer major withdrawal....actually, what withdrawal I did suffer, actually felt good. it was like a mild dose of LSD for a day and a half.

I didnt suffer major withdrawal till I was shooting heroin all day everyday...and even then, the first major kick I went through, only lasted 2 days total. 2 fucking days.

a few years later, my health seriously compramised, it started taking me 2 -4 weeks to fully kick.
one time, it was at least 30 days till I could sleep more than 40 minutes at a time. and I sweat the bed wet every night for 30 days as well.

there might be a different alkaloid load in that thai opium you are talking about....but, in general, opium is actually MORE addictive it seems than heroin when taken on a daily basis. well, at least a few studies have shown that the opium addicts seem to suffer longer than the other users.
personally, I think opium is easier to manage than heroin, as far as tolerance is concerned.

perhaps the tribal thai opium production uses some other herbs in the preperation of opium?
I know the man that invented HEANTOS herb blend for opiate addiction studied specifically the ethnobotanical practices of people in thailand....he learned from the hill tribes what plants they used for withdrawal.
or so his story goes....I have some reasons to doubt some of this persons story, mainly that he seems a greedy and dishonest person.
but it is possible that there is some additive to the opium you are talking about.

I think the most probable cause is your own chemistry though, and not the chemistry of the drug involved.

keep researching though, it would be interesting if you discovered some novel use of herbs.

[zketrouble]

In the south of Thailand they generally use kratom for WD. I'd be skeptical about what this guy told you about the hill tribes' kicking methods. Generally the hill-tribers have no need to quit. I am good friends with many of these people and I asked them how they support their habits and what they do when they can't support it and need to kick. 2/3 of them just stare at me like "what do you mean quit?", 1 in 4 specifically tell me that they have no reason to quit due to an unlimited supply, and the remainder say "oh just lots of rest." I have heard of people using kratom in the north but access is limited unless they have friends down south, and considering the Thai's utter racism for a hill-triber to have true "friends" willing to smuggle kratom up from the south is quite rare. Unfortunately Thailand is one of the only countries where kratom is illegal.

But then again there are many hilltribes and they do have different cultures. What I stated only applies to the Lisu, it applies to the Shan also though to a lesser extent.


At least 1/3, probably half of the Lisu hilltribe economy is drug based. They make some money selling traditional manbags, purses, clothing, et cet, but the profit margin on these things is incredibly low. The only thing other than the drug market that they have a reasonable profit margin on comes their silver-working skills.


addiction is a strange bird.

I know a person who has had spontaneous remission from a 10 year heroin habit....he kicked with god. no withdrawals...at all.

when I first started using heroin, I would use a small amount at nighttime only...around 10 pm. I didnt use in the morning or afternoon.
I used for a few months at a time...and didnt suffer major withdrawal....actually, what withdrawal I did suffer, actually felt good. it was like a mild dose of LSD for a day and a half.

I didnt suffer major withdrawal till I was shooting heroin all day everyday...and even then, the first major kick I went through, only lasted 2 days total. 2 fucking days.

a few years later, my health seriously compramised, it started taking me 2 -4 weeks to fully kick.
one time, it was at least 30 days till I could sleep more than 40 minutes at a time. and I sweat the bed wet every night for 30 days as well.

there might be a different alkaloid load in that thai opium you are talking about....but, in general, opium is actually MORE addictive it seems than heroin when taken on a daily basis. well, at least a few studies have shown that the opium addicts seem to suffer longer than the other users.
personally, I think opium is easier to manage than heroin, as far as tolerance is concerned.

perhaps the tribal thai opium production uses some other herbs in the preperation of opium?
I know the man that invented HEANTOS herb blend for opiate addiction studied specifically the ethnobotanical practices of people in thailand....he learned from the hill tribes what plants they used for withdrawal.
or so his story goes....I have some reasons to doubt some of this persons story, mainly that he seems a greedy and dishonest person.
but it is possible that there is some additive to the opium you are talking about.

I think the most probable cause is your own chemistry though, and not the chemistry of the drug involved.

keep researching though, it would be interesting if you discovered some novel use of herbs.

[scikid]

Kinda off topic but how did you end up there at such a young age? Did your parents move out there or did you just start traveling by yourself?