Grapefruit To Potentiate Morphine Tea

[Narkotikon]

I've know about the grapefruit juice thing for a while now, and how it works by inhibiting the CYP enzyme responsible for the metabolism of certain (actually a lot) of drugs, opiates or not. For instance, taking grapefruit juice with hydrocodone will increase the bioavailability and prolong the action. I've done that with hydro a long time ago, but never really liked it, because by inhibiting the CYP enzyme, you're also preventing the hydro from metabolizing into hydromorphone, which is what made hydro so euphoric for me in the beginning.

Anyway, I just drank a quart of grapefruit juice about an hour age before I drank my tea just now, because I learned that it apparently will work the same with morphine. Morphine is mainly metabolized in the liver (hepatic) and by gluccorination (sp?). Apparently the the inhibition of the CYP enzyme will decrease the first-pass metabolism rate of morphine, thereby increasing it's oral bio-avail. So, (and this is what I heard / learned last night on an IM conversation with Resorcinol) it increases the oral bioavailability of morphine from around 25% to say 60%. If it actually works, and I get higher than normal than with just tea alone, I"ll let you all know. This could be a great way to maximize oral morphine.

Or, it could be that most of you already know this, and I'm just an idiot for just finding this out. In any case, I'm happy to have learned it, and I'll update in about an hour or so as to how it's progressing.

Apparently it works for codeine too. When codeine is metabolized, part of it gets metabolized into morphine, and another part gets metabolized into norcodeine (which is useless). By taking grapefruit juice, it prevents that one part of the codeine from being metabolized into norcodeine, so all / most of it can be metabolized into morphine, thereby increasing the amount of morphine gotten from the metabolism of codeine.

[Ickyuck]

So, N, could it be possible that someone could, say, consume GFJ *and* tagamet? They both inhibit different enzymes, yes?

[Narkotikon]

So, N, could it be possible that someone could, say, consume GFJ *and* tagamet? They both inhibit different enzymes, yes?

You know, I have no idea. I've never done the Tagament thing. I know it inhibits something. I want to say it inhibits the same thing as GFJ, but I"m not sure. I'd have to look into it and get back to you.

I think I see what you're saying though. Take both GFJ and Tagament and get a really good CYP double-whammy inhibition going on so it increases the bio-avail of morphine even more? That would be awesome if that's the case.

....................

I do have to say, though, that this GFJ thing that Res told me about WORKS! I feel great. I've only had one cup of tea so far, and I feel like I've had three. Basically I feel like I do when I normally drink tea, but much more of it. I'm tempted to drink another cuppa and get higher.

[Ickyuck]

Narksy, you never tried tagamet???? Oh shite! I would reckon that you should get some as soon as you can. It boosts your tea at least u pto 50%, at least for me. Great thing to have on hand, 'specially if you run outta GFJ...

[Narkotikon]

^^^^^^^^

Thanks for the tip, Ick. Do you still take it an hour or so before you dose, like with GFJ? Actually, there might be some tagament upstairs in the medicine cabinet. Hmmmm. May have to go a hunting.

BTW. Are you feeling better? I hope so.

[chopstix]

I've know about the grapefruit juice thing for a while now, and how it works by inhibiting the CYP enzyme responsible for the metabolism of certain (actually a lot) of drugs, opiates or not. For instance, taking grapefruit juice with hydrocodone will increase the bioavailability and prolong the action. I've done that with hydro a long time ago, but never really liked it, because by inhibiting the CYP enzyme, you're also preventing the hydro from metabolizing into hydromorphone, which is what made hydro so euphoric for me in the beginning.

Anyway, I just drank a quart of grapefruit juice about an hour age before I drank my tea just now, because I learned that it apparently will work the same with morphine. Morphine is mainly metabolized in the liver (hepatic) and by gluccorination (sp?). Apparently the the inhibition of the CYP enzyme will decrease the first-pass metabolism rate of morphine, thereby increasing it's oral bio-avail. So, (and this is what I heard / learned last night on an IM conversation with Resorcinol) it increases the oral bioavailability of morphine from around 25% to say 60%. If it actually works, and I get higher than normal than with just tea alone, I"ll let you all know. This could be a great way to maximize oral morphine.

Or, it could be that most of you already know this, and I'm just an idiot for just finding this out. In any case, I'm happy to have learned it, and I'll update in about an hour or so as to how it's progressing.

Apparently it works for codeine too. When codeine is metabolized, part of it gets metabolized into morphine, and another part gets metabolized into norcodeine (which is useless). By taking grapefruit juice, it prevents that one part of the codeine from being metabolized into norcodeine, so all / most of it can be metabolized into morphine, thereby increasing the amount of morphine gotten from the metabolism of codeine.

I've known about this for quite awhile, but my pod run was in 06 and I haven't used much pod/seed tea since save a few days ago when I was loaded for 3 days on some knobs I found.. Funny, looking back on the rachamim seed tea thread today where he continually denies that there's much dope in pods. What a joke. I was fucking ripped, pinned and bright red from histamine for days from some measly knobs and it jacked my tolerance.. Anyway, GFJ/Tagamet/Cimetidine works much better for me for O than hydro, I love the euphoria I get from hydro if only lightly or not habituated; but taking an inhibitor doesn't really help, once tolerance is built, like it does for O tea..

So, N, could it be possible that someone could, say, consume GFJ *and* tagamet? They both inhibit different enzymes, yes?

No, I believe they work on the same enzyme(s?) - CYP450?

[Ickyuck]

^^^^^^^^

Thanks for the tip, Ick. Do you still take it an hour or so before you dose, like with GFJ? Actually, there might be some tagament upstairs in the medicine cabinet. Hmmmm. May have to go a hunting.

BTW. Are you feeling better? I hope so.

Yes take an hour before, you gots it.

Eh... still not too bad. Found some codeine today, not much, but enough to stop me from wanting to rob the drugstore. Every day I wake up thinking the same thing, that I won't be getting high, so I roll around and sleep for like another 3000 hours. Wrong way of thinking, I know.

Oh and thanks for clarifying C-stix.

[clinton]

Are you quitting by choice icky?

[Narkotikon]

Chops, yeah, I definitely have to agree. I've never been a big believer in the GFJ thing before, because like I said, I thought it took the euphoria away from the hydro I used to do, so I thought why bother. But I'm definitely loving it with tea.

[Ickyuck]

Ah Clinton, no, not by choice. By bad luck and no money. :( 'Tis a bad time for Icky... but she's gettin' by, somehow, by the grace of ... something.

[bindegal]

They stop selling Tagamet or Acinil as it call here. So no more Cimetidine in Denmark :( So back to GFJ.

[chopstix]

They stop selling Tagamet or Acinil as it call here. So no more Cimetidine in Denmark :( So back to GFJ.


I wonder why? Stuff has been OTC here in the US for years.. I used to take it years ago for chronic acid reflux, but I build tolerance to it very quickly and it stops working within a few days..

Never heard of any problems associated with it, and not much use banning it over abuse when GFJ obviously isn't going anywhere..

[norseman]

Hey Chops I am pretty sure its not OTC here in Canada too. Not sure why also.

[jersey_emt]

I've found that this does not actually potentiate morphine, but it does make it last a bit longer. Which makes sense when you think about it...it is inhibiting the enzyme(s) that metabolize morphine, meaning that the morphine will be floating around your system longer before being metabolized into something that is not active.

[Gimpy]

Just a slight clarification about the enzymes...

There is a whole family of cytochrome P450 enzymes and they have a wide range of functions and chemical substrates. The 2 of them of most interest to us are CYP2D6 and CYP3A4, CYP2D6 being the "good" one that converts codeine to morphine and CYP3A4 being the "bad" one that converts codeine and morphine into the much less potent norcodeine and normorphine. CYP3A4 is the one that is inhibited in the intestinal lining by the bergamottin in grapefruit.

There is another enzyme, UGT2B7, a UDP-glucuronosyltransferase, which is responsible for converting morphine and codeine into their glucuronides which are more water soluble and then excreted in urine. UGT2B7 can be inhibited by borneol (among other things) which is found in high levels in sage, cardamom, and rosemary.

I have just recently started drinking sage tea along with my "other" tea and have noticed a distinct increase in duration if not particularly potency. I use about a half ounce of sage per cup of tea, it might be more than is needed. I've been a fan of cardamom in things for flavor for years but never knew that I could have been using it for this too. I'd be interested in other peoples experiences with it, maybe it's just me imagining an effect.

[Narkotikon]

^^^^^^^

Thanks for the clarification on the CYP enzymes, particularly the CYP3A4 one that is inhibited by GFJ and therefore allows more morphine to get past the metabolism without being turned into normorphine (i.e., creating a better high for oral morphine).

..........................

Anyway, my final thoughts on this was that it did work for me. I drank a quart of grapefruit juice an hour or so before I drank my tea. I tried to find the white variety, because I was told by Resorcinol that that variety of GFJ had the most bergamottin in it. I couldn't find it at my local Kroger's though, so I settled for buying Tropicana's 100% Indian River GFJ, which was in the organic section. I think it may have been Pink GFJ. It wasn't white I don't think, and it didn't look or taste like the Ruby Red stuff, so I'm assuming it was pink.

Anyway, I've not been to bed yet, and still feel a mild morphine buzz, although I am finally getting tired. Tea makes me energetic, so I'm taking the fact that I've not been to bed yet as a good sign that the GFJ did indeed work and that it increased the effects of the tea. So, that's my impression.

[evilfix]

I just tried the GFJ with my tea. It seemed like the peak wasn't as high but the overall effect lasted much longer. Feels like i'm giving up some extra kick for a longer duration. Not necessarily a bad thing, could go either way.