New here; Need to kick have a specific question

[norbu]

I'm sorry my introduction had to be like this. I like all of you have been infatuated by the world of opiates. All shapes and sizes. Although, my drug of choice has been heroin. I've been using heroin for about 6 months. I've reached the end of the road, have brought myself and my family into debt and can no longer continue this relentless consuming lifestyle.

Anyways, that out of the way, I am in the process of kicking at the moment. It has been 40 hours since my last shot of dope and I can imagine that this process is nearly complete. I, however, had used 16 mg suboxone yesterday, 12 hours after my last shot of dope. The suboxone has provided absolutely no relief, which why is beyond me. I understand 16 mg is a heavy dose. I've been using 6 bags a day for the last few months.

So what I'd like to know is am I nearly out of this hell or am I going to have to suffer for some additional time because of my consumption of the suboxone and it's longer half-life. Can I expect relief after tomorrow or can I expect my symptoms to worsen?

If the suboxone had actually extinguished the symptoms of withdrawal I'd expect the withdrawal to be more drawn out but as it hadn't alleviated any symptoms should I be in the clear? I'm afraid I may relapse if I have to put up with this for 5 more days.

Love to hear what you have to say. I've been creeping these boards for a while...

Thanks!

[JonnyMohawk]

I hate to bear bad news but you the subs did set back withdrawals a bit.


Also I dont know your normal habit amount but opiate withdrawal usually lasts anywhere from a week to a month for the physical symptoms, and between 1-3 months for the psychological ones.


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also welcome to the phile my friend.


Come in and stay a while.

[duck]

if you are counting WD's in hours, I think you may be a bit too optimistic. I'd def. try as hard as possible to go without any more sub, especially after taking 16mg. Taking some benzos would be a better solution.

[Morfiend]

Don't ask yourself how long it will take. Just do it. There is a 100% chance that it will get better. There is a 100% chance that it will feel like it's taking too long. Your only other option is to give up and have to go through those same 40 hours again.

Don't assume it will take a month either. Just keep yourself occupied and try not to think about it.

[Duckfeet]

If you took the subs before you were in serious withdrawals--on heroin, at least about 24hrs--then they won't provide relief...on the contrary, they often thro people into precipitated withdrawals, which can be, well, 'unpleasant...' ... so I'd just hang in there, see how you feel for a while...but again, there's good reason that they always insist you be in withdrawals *before* taking burprenorphene of any kind, as it can get you pretty sick...but maybe your habit wasn't that bad, or you were kicking slightly, and all will be well...every once in a while people dodge the PW bullet, but often the don't...I know it's hard, but heroin wdrawals usually don't last that long, physically...they are more unpleasant than methadone withdrawal, for cold turkey, but don't last as long...usually I operate on the 72 hr plan, and that has proved fairly accurate, for the physical crap...

The mental, the craving, the constant relapses most of us struggle with? Well, hopefully you are strongwilled and determined and can pull this off...

Best wishes to you...hang in there..

[mikey5string]

if you do happen to relapse dont beat yourself up about it and get strung out. just move forward. try not to think of it in terms of hours or days since you last used. kicking a habit is more about an overall change rather than "ok its been 2 weeks, 3 days and 2 hrs since i last used".

if you go 3 months only using 2 or 3 times, id say thats pretty fucking good. and if you have to use a little bit when it gets reeall bad its better to do it rather than say "fuck this, its too hard" and get back into a regular habit.

good luck. its a process. itll be worth it.

[nhop]

Suboxone has a ceiling effect and for this reason is not very effective for big habits. 6 bags/day of nyc dope is probably too big for sub to handle. But the good news is that since the sub did not work for you, it will have a minimal effect on your wd's. The worst should be over in about a week or less, and you will feel slightly better each day after that. Hang in there.

Btw, welcome.

[youwonhundred]

Something I don't see mentioned anywhere is, is this your first real "habit" that you're kicking off from? If it is, you'll be fine. When I was much younger, I'd shoot a bundle in a day no sweat, but I didn't NEED anywhere near that amount. I had the money, so I did it.

Basically, from what I am reading, you've never kicked before? Or I would think you'd know at least something about what to expect. If I am mistaken, please enlighten me. For your sake, I hope I am not mistaken and withdrawal for you, will be negligible at best and middling crappy at worst.

Either way, good luck. I just dabbled a little bit (a smallish bottle of percs from my GP) after over a year clean, and had zero withdrawal. Yeah, I got lucky. Hope you do too.

[JonnyMohawk]

Something I don't see mentioned anywhere is, is this your first real "habit" that you're kicking off from? If it is, you'll be fine.


My first kick was the worst I've ever had, it was fucking horrible.


I think for most people it gets progressively worse till the 3rd day, and on the 4th you are supposed to feel a bit better then the day before, day by day.

Although thats if you are on a drug with a short half life... that description could be completely of anyhow, given that everyone withdraws differently.

I just want to give it to you straight my friend.

I hope everything passes quickly.

[norbu]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I really do appreciate it.

This is not my first kick. I try not to think in terms of days in hours since I last used unless I'm referring to the physical discomfort. I understand that kicking is a much more involved process, one that I am finally ready to make.

I've been hiding out at my girls place for the last few days and having some sort of support really helped this time. Regardless of whether or not she knew I was kicking. I try to keep it a secret but it's difficult to hide something so time consuming.

Good news is that the suboxone had little to no effect prolonging my withdrawals as I woke up today this morning (yes, I actually got 2 hours of sleep, unlike the night prior) feeling quite better. I've experienced the worst of the physical discomfort, now it's just time to rebuild.

I don't want to leave the world of opiates but I am wise enough to know that there is absolutely no room for opiates in my life at this moment.

Anyways, I'll keep in touch and let you know how everything is going and want to thank you guys again for your replies. They definitely helped.

-norbu

[Duckfeet]

I'm glad to hear it worked well: be kind of cautious for a while...this is time period when a little dope seems to take us right back to the same old grind again, and we forget the hell of withdrawals, and why we did them in the first place...a whole lot of us on here have made it thru the first few days of hell, and feel relieved, and figure "what's the harm?" of a shot, now we're "off dope," and find out that being a "weekender" or "chipper" just doesn't apply to us...matter of fact, not sure I've ever met one, who stuck with it...the dope "weekends" usually get longer and longer...and time spent "not chipping" gets shorter and shorter...I'm glad the bupe didn't kick you into precipitated withdrawals tho, sounds like you did good...

[upstate_007]

I don't want to leave the world of opiates but I am wise enough to know that there is absolutely no room for opiates in my life at this moment.



Same boat as me. It got to the point where I had to make a decision to either start paying bills and shit like that or go on blowing every cent I had on drugs. I chose the 'responsible' path for once. Been going strong ever since.

But, I am still always broke as fuck. Oh well.

[Opiyum]

I hate to bear bad news but you the subs did set back withdrawals a bit.


Also I dont know your normal habit amount but opiate withdrawal usually lasts anywhere from a week to a month for the physical symptoms, and between 1-3 months for the psychological ones.


-------------------------------------------------------

also welcome to the phile my friend.


Come in and stay a while.


Don't get discouraged by this post. The physical stuff can last a month but really it's not nearly as bad as this sounds.
The first week, all of this depending on the individual and habit of course, is gonna be rough and after that for the next three weeks and maybe even longer you will get very minor, insignificant physical withdrawal symptoms and it's not 4 or 5 symptoms at once. All it entails is some goosebumps occasionally, a little sneezing, your skin may be a bit more sensitive then you would like (after two and a half weeks my skin felt fine) and for me the last thing to go is issues with my gut. I had diarrhea for a solid month or so and most days my stomach felt like it had rocks in it. The diarrhea was kept pretty much under control with immodium and the other stuff could have been because of the hospital food.

[JonnyMohawk]

I really wasn't trying to discourage you, I just wanted to be honest about the expected withdrawals.

[SHELLEY]

subs don't work for everyone
i am another opiophile for whom bupe in any form provides NO relief from w/d
actually it seems to make shit worse because you expect to feel better and then don't

just kick, man
it hurts, but then it doesn't hurt

[youwonhundred]

My first kick was the worst I've ever had, it was fucking horrible.


Seriously? Maybe it was just because I was so much younger then, but even the slightest little habit now makes me wish I was dead, but at 18-19, it was nothing.

[nhop]

My first kick was the worst I've ever had, it was fucking horrible.

Mine as well. My first habit was in NYC about 12 yrs ago, and 2-3 bags/day of that white was much worse than any tar habit Ive kicked here on the west coast. It was much beter dope though, so this does make sense.

[Raisin]

My body most definitely doesn't bounce back like it used to. I have found though that the more I listen to what my body is saying to me the more I can understand. I've kicked enough habits to have a routine that I follow. THC, Loperamide, Alprazolam, Ibuprophen/Naproxen, and whatever exercise I can manage all help but relizing how much of what I am feeling was is my head is the biggest part for me. My body may not respond like it once did but my brain is closer to the top of the curve and if I can get through the physical the mental has gotten easier to deal with.

[Duckfeet]

I think first time an addict seriously kicks, is life-changing: we might not think it is at the time, but looking back, it changed everything. To think that how I looked at the world, how I felt, how my future appeared, every fucking thing, all of a sudden looked dark and hopeless, and I've yet to be able to "override" that feeling, while going through it...it makes "normal" life seem silly and worthless, and I feel that I see life clearly, when going through opiate withdrawal, and, well, one just has to hang on. I think first time kicking, for me, in Vietnam, on heroin, all I really remember is being sad and miserable nostalgic and wishing I could talk on some phone or something to my sister. Slowly I realized I had to get some more dope, and all "reason" for kicking were seen as ridiculous. I was nineteen.

Whether first kick, or later kicks, were better or worse, I don't really know. I dread detoxing, and I seem to get strung out a lot easier, and knowing what is coming, eventually, makes it a lot less fun to get loaded, for me. I think I was tougher when I was young, maybe, or else I just really believe when I was young that it wouldn't be so bad: I was always, you know, "moving to Arizona to get off heroin," or "moving to Florida to get off heroin, " or...well, fuck.

But we shouldn't let any one person's experience dictate our own...many go through it, many get off it, many don't.