My Big Mistake

[Chemical_Boy]

I never should have slammed coke.

No matter what I do I can not leave behind my craving for a bellringer. Some things are truly too good for the human body and mind.... and I beleive that shooting coke is one of those things. We, as humans, were just not designed to deal with that intense and unnatural.

That smell, that taste, that full body numbness that creeps over your body-especially your lips. That is how I know that I have reached the limit and the point I am looking for- when I push off, my lips go numb from the inside almost as bad as your throat does when you get a drip from sniffing.

Then the sounds and the distance. So far away you feel.

The non-sexual orgasm that hits is unparelelled. Non sexual but definitely sensual.

I love a big shot. I have the bad habit of pushing the limits. What I usually do is fill a HUGE shot. then I make sure there is quite a bit water- usually 70 or 80 units. That way I can push half the shot, wait fifteen seconds, push more, wait, push, wait, push....

Usually that first half a shot is enough if I have done it right. Then I pull out and do the other half in five minutes. But if it was not enough, then I can hit another five or ten units. This way I am not taking the gamble of filling up and shoving off without testing. After the first shot, I know how much to do. But this way, that fisrt shot is still the most intense. Cuz, even if you do big ones, the first is always the best.

Wow. Needless to say I am jonesing. Oh well. I just need to give it up.

[at&t]

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(Went ahead and deleted the Poorly thought out And Hellishly Long "WAY out in left-field type post" that y'all folks would REALLY no doubt be better off not having to deal with.....)
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PS.
NOT that its relevant in any way, but..... speaking of coke...
I recall a great quote from a very Long Time Ago-- probably like in 2006 or so, in which Nick (or... at least, I think it was nick) had said something like:
"You know, the best description of the 'Crack High' that I have ever heard came from one of my friends who uses the stuff. He said: 'No... Its not really that good. BUT, you are always convinced that the next hit is going to be.'"

Anyway, good luck to OP, sorry for sort of.... strange empty (AND over-long left-field) posts.....

but, well.... Cheers all, <raises glass (of absynthe)..:rolleyes:.> at&t

[doctor diesel]

If it's any help, coke does nothing for me cept give me a very sore throat and a nose that drips for like an hour and a half. Deeply unpleasant.
And I too am a freak of nature, because I can't stand marijuana; not because it makes me paranoid, but because it either does NOTHING AT ALL, regardless of how much I take, or it makes me VIOLENTLY ILL. There's certainly nothing inbetween, and there's no pleasure to be had, at all.
Opies, on the other hand....

[mikey5string]

#1. Snorting Coke vs. Shooting Coke-- Maybe y'all folks will think this is a stupid question, but.... In all my years/decades in this particular um... 'profession,' I am quite possibly the only one of us here who has never done a speedball. The question is: IS there really *that big* of a difference (between Snorting and IV)? I mean....... with Junk-- for me, Shooting, snorting even, IV, IM, even orally, the *rush* is different, but, personally, its been *so very long* since I've felt a real genuine "rush" or a "high," worthy of the name, that by now-- (and maybe this something akin to blasphemy to some of y'all Needle Freaks, but) I really have become almost completely ambivalent to ROA. Whatever... as long as it will get you WELL, its just fine by me........




fuck yes. IV coke is probably the most intense rush you can get. the term "bell ringer" is very appropriate.

[doctor diesel]

It don't ring my bell, chap.

[More Feen]

There is a school of thought (I don't know if it has a name, or not) that believes that when a plant-made chemical is used medicinally (or recreationally) in the millieu of other chemicals contained in the particular plant, that such use is better than using a chemical that has been isolated.

There is quite a bit of "evidence" to support such theories. Basically, when mankind gained the technical knowledge to isolated Morphine from opium, Cocaine from Coca, Atropine from Belladonna, etc..., that is when serious trouble began.

These purified forms offer such an intense euphoria that the human organism hasn't had time to adapt (evolve) adequate counter-measures.

Alcohol has been consumed for thousands of years, enough time for alcohol-drinking populations to ramp-up their alcohol metabolising enzymes. I believe that Europe is the epicenter of such populations. People of European decent tend to have adequate Aldehyde Dehydrogenase (it is up-regulated) in response to their forefathers/mothers' consumption of alcohol.

Note: Ethanol is converted to Acetaldehyde (a narcotic) by alcohol dehydrogenase. Wood alcohol (Methanol) is coverted by the same enzyme to FORMaldehyde--the stuff used to embalm the dead. This is why drinking wood alcohol causes such problems, from blindness to death.

People in region without a high-level of alcohol consumption do not produce such levels of alcohol-metabolising enzymes, such as Native Americans & Asians. Many of us have seen first-hand that when Asians drink, it takes very little for them to become bright red (Asian Flushing Syndrome). These folks have aldehyde dehydrogenase, but just not at levels high enough to counter the effects.

The point is that Europeans (especially) have had thousands of years to adapt to the presence of a toxin commonly encoutered in their environment--alcohol. Their bodies have adapted by making more enzymes to degrade (catabolise) this toxin.

Isolation of chemicals like Morphine & Cocaine occured in the mid to late 1800's, certainly not enough time for a population to counter (genetically) these chemicals.

Consuming opium tea, or coca tea exposes the drinker to morphine & cocaine, but also the other chemicals in the plant. In the case of opium tea, many of these other chemicals "balance" the effects of the morphine (& codeine).

The same is likely true with coca tea. People consume coca tea daily, at higher elevations in South America for years, yet they can stop without much in the way of withdrawal. This lack of addiction is likely due to the other chemicals present AND the route of administration.

Any "pick-up" that the coca tea delivers is given over an hour or so (slow onset). When the coca tea "wears-off" it does so slowly (gentle let-down).

The ability of modern humans to slam high quantities of pure chemicals ~instantaneously into their bodies (smoking or IV) is something that we are NOT conditioned for, and aren't able to protect against.

OF course it feels great! At no other time in the history of the human species have we had the ability to do this (1800's to the present), to overwhelm our natural chemical receptors with potent agonists.

If one believes that the theory of evolution has some merit, there was a simple neural system that proved to be beneficial; it would squirt-out a bit of Dopamine (maybe some Norepinephrine as well) as a "reward" when the creature/animal/person did something beneficial (sex-procreate, eat-nutrition, etc...).

Those critters that felt really great after having sex or eating were more likely to have offspring, and those children would perpetuate & possibly amplify this reward trait.

These chemicals play & exploit this reward system, and using cocaine (especially in this fashion) can really mess a person up. I think that methamphetamine has a much-more severe effect, but both coke & meth are powerful enough to cause people to forsake EVERYTHING in search of tickling that reward centre of the brain.

Pharmacology asserts that exposure to too much neurotransmitter (dopamine DA/norepinephrine NE) will cause the "down-regulation" of the DA/NE receptors. This means it will take more DA/NE to get a similar response (tolerance/habituation).

This is what makes withrawal from cocaine & meth such a nightmare. You have to wait such a long time for those receptors to up-regulate and be able to receive DA/NE. This also means that activities like sex & eating are unlikely to elicit a "pleasure" response.

All the while the withdrawing person is in such an Aphoric state, they know that if they hit some coke or meth, they can feel good, maybe even great again. But then the cycle continues.

You are monkeying with the chemistry of a very primitive and important system in the brain. This drug has destroyed lives because nothing can make you feel as good as the temporary malfunctioning reward system (stuck on "high"). The birth of a child, marriage, sex, sleep, work, education: all of these achievements pale to the euphoria produced by coke & meth.

M F

PS Notes: Plants originally evolved & adapted chemical defences against insects & animals. Cocaine, Atropine, Morphine & Nicotine are many of the results. They are originally natural insecticides. Where cocaine causes the neurochemical dopamine to build-up in the mammalian brain, in insects, it causes the insect "brain" chemical octopamine to build up. Just like in humans, too much of these chemicals would cause an insect/animal to feel bad, vomit, and even die.

[at&t]

I don't know man....

Good post, but..... A few questions......

Acetaldehyde is a 'Narcotic'?

Prehistoric Europeans were drinking alcohol before Preshistoric China?

The "White folks" vs "Yellow and Red folks" "Alcohol Metabolism Thing" is an example of Ultra-Rapid Fast-Forward-Evolution, as opposed to just being nothing more than a fluke caused by arbitrarily different systemic concentration of enzymes....?

100mg of Morphine is "More Detrimental" than 100mg of Morphine (+ 15mg thebaine + 5mg papaverine + 100 other alkaloids in varying amounts)?

not trying to 'be a prick,' or to shoot any of that stuff down, but... Some of it is plausible, Some of it is just a mater of nomenclature/semantics, and Some of it is a bit dubious/debatable...

dunno.... anyway, cheers, more feen... (while lurking-- before registering as a member) I always enjoyed your posts... Bye for now... at&t

[nick]

I don't know man....

Good post, but..... A few questions......

Acetaldehyde is a 'Narcotic'?

Prehistoric Europeans were drinking alcohol before Preshistoric China?

The "White folks" vs "Yellow and Red folks" "Alcohol Metabolism Thing" is an example of Ultra-Rapid Fast-Forward-Evolution, as opposed to just being nothing more than a fluke caused by arbitrarily different systemic concentration of enzymes....?

100mg of Morphine is "More Detrimental" than 100mg of Morphine (+ 15mg thebaine + 5mg papaverine + 100 other alkaloids in varying amounts)?

not trying to 'be a prick,' or to shoot any of that stuff down, but... Some of it is plausible, Some of it is just a mater of nomenclature/semantics, and Some of it is a bit dubious/debatable...

dunno.... anyway, cheers, more feen... (while lurking-- before registering as a member) I always enjoyed your posts... Bye for now... at&t

Yeah,my fav bit is the europeans handling their alcohol well.Leeds on a friday or saturday night suggests otherwise.

[JonnyMohawk]

There is a school of thought (I don't know if it has a name, or not) that believes that when a plant-made chemical is used medicinally (or recreationally) in the millieu of other chemicals contained in the particular plant, that such use is better than using a chemical that has been isolated.

There is quite a bit of "evidence" to support such theories. Basically, when mankind gained the technical knowledge to isolated Morphine from opium, Cocaine from Coca, Atropine from Belladonna, etc..., that is when serious trouble began.

These purified forms offer such an intense euphoria that the human organism hasn't had time to adapt (evolve) adequate counter-measures.



I dont know man. The ancient egyptians were making poppy tea pretty often.

I know it isnt 'isolated' morphine, but anyone who has drinken poppy tea will tell you it gets you pretty fucking high.

I know through selective breeding we have made them stronger, but still.

[More Feen]

Being an anonymous forum setting, AND the fact that I was probably feeling pretty good at the time (tickling those damn neuro-receptors), probably caused me to write a few thousand words more than I intended, and to make some ~loose connections.

About Acetaldehyde:
I don't make the designations, many sources list acetaldehyde as a "narcotic," or having narcotic actions. Definately not an OPIATE though! We shouldn't confuse the two.

Here's one source: http://www.instantref.com/acetald.htm

About Asians & Alcohol:
I wasn't 100% correct in my original post. Many Asians have a mutated ALCOHOL Dehydrogenase enzyme that more-rapidly converts ethanol to acetaldehyde. It is the Alcohol DHDGNS that causes the Asian Flushing Syndrome, not a weak ALDEHYDE DHDGNS.

I tend to babble when I'm feeling particularly well, most of its fairly accurate, I think--but I certainly don't mind being called-out on any point I make/made. If its an opinion, I'll try to back to back it up, and also consider why it might be wrong, racist, not PC, etc....

Thanks for your input & comments!

M F

[More Feen]

Oh, Jonny M-Hawk,

The point of isolated chemicals being a ~"recent" introduction to the human species is simply an observation.

I'm sure that Egyptian horticulturalists were breeding & cross-breeding their poppies to produce some potent potables--very high morphine content. Still, there would be thebaine, noscapine, etc..., in their brews.

Having an isolated alkaloid (cocaine or morphine) and the ability to shove insane amounts (like 50 pods-worth of morphine, and 5 lbs worth of coca leaves) directly into one's bloodstream is something that animals/humans have never encountered and never had to deal with before.

It is not surprising that some drugs cause people to breakdown and become raging, animal-like--even murderous in their attempts to satiate their altered neurochemistry.

Likewise, it is not surprising that given the limited history of dealing with such problems that politicians, lawyers, judges--humans--have come up with such a primative, and uneffective solution to the problem as prohibition & jail.

One can hope that with education & time, society's attitude will change and better solutions will be put into effect. Its still early though, maybe our great-great grandchildren will enjoy a more-enlightened environment in which to live.

M F

[HistoryofMadness]

i didn't have to read anything in this thread past "i should have never slammed coke" (or whatever that first line was)

no, that should never be done. it is dangerous and especially tempting for us needle-headed rush junkies, but it is always a terrible idea

unless you like being tweaked out of your head, poking yourself like a pin cushion, panting like a fat kid on a bicycle, with a face as pink as strawberry pudding...

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, but can any of the other cultures hold a candle to a good old drunken irishman belting a ballad out around 3 in the morning? I've never heard an oriental or an indian from *anywhere* could do that as effectively...they can't even do "Danny Boy" right...the shame...

;):p;)

Yeah,my fav bit is the europeans handling their alcohol well.Leeds on a friday or saturday night suggests otherwise.