Those Bastards!

[chemboy7]

Holy shit... it turns out those rat bastard DEA scum have teeth. Look's like they are trying to revise the analoge act so that most of the chemicals listed in PIHKAL and TIHKAL (i.e. Phenethylamines, Tryptamines, research chemicals) will be considered analoges to schedual I psychodelics. Here's a breif preview of the changes they plan to make copy/pasted from the DEA notice:


Proposed Criteria That Will Apply to Positional Isomers

Pursuant to 21 U.S.C. 802(14), 21 U.S.C. 812(c)(I)(c) and 21 CFR
1308.11(d) positional isomers of Schedule I hallucinogens are any and
all substances which:
(1) Are not already controlled in a different Schedule I category,
or are listed in another Schedule, or are specifically exempted from
control by law; and
(2) Have the same molecular formula and core structure as a
Schedule I hallucinogen; and
(3) Have the same functional group(s) and/or substituent(s) as
those found in the respective Schedule I hallucinogen, attached at any
position(s) on the core structure, but in such manner that no new
chemical functionalities are created and no existing chemical
functionalities are destroyed relative to the respective Schedule I
hallucinogen; except that
(4) Rearrangements of alkyl moieties within or between functional
group(s) or substituent(s), or divisions or combinations of alkyl
moieties, that do not create new chemical functionalities or destroy
existing chemical functionalities, would be within the definition of
positional isomer (and therefore be controlled).
As clarification, note that the ``core structure'' is the parent
molecule that is the common basis for the class; for example,
tryptamine, phenethylamine, or ergoline. The following are examples of
rearrangements resulting in creation and/or destruction of chemical
functionalities. These rearrangements result in compounds which are not
positional isomers: ethoxy to alpha-hydroxyethyl, hydroxy and methyl to
methoxy, or the repositioning of a phenolic or alcoholic hydroxy group
to create a hydroxyamine. Examples of rearrangements resulting in
compounds which would be positional isomers include, but are not
limited to: tert-butyl to sec-butyl, methoxy and ethyl to isopropoxy,
N,N-diethyl to N-methyl-N-propyl, or alpha-methylamino to N-
methylamino.

That's pretty much the end of the RC game... better stock up now if you want any for the future. Here is the link to Bluelight's thread on the subject:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=257160

and the link to the DEA's proposed revisions:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20061800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2006/E6-7979.htm


I'm pissed but not suprised; I've said it before and I'll say it again, if enough people are getting high on something sooner or later they are going to find a way to demonize it and punish you for it... first Salvia now RCs, Kratom is next I can feel it. The RC wave was a high and beuatiful one for those that rode it... but it appears it's crashing soon. It all started with US vendors, then they were shut down on trumped up analoge act charges, then the oversea's market took it's place (which is alot harder for Big Brother to control), now they are just flat out outlawing it to save face. Fucking pricks! Let's all hope that Shulgin finishes his third installment of his personal bitch slap to the DEA before he leaves us (the man is getting up there in years)... he seems to be the only one striking productive counter-blows.

[hero 1]

iff enoug kids stood on the corner wipping there noses with kleenex and it seemed like they were enjoying it we couldnt get kleenex with out id

[superman]

ah well, RCs are going to be more popular in time regardless of thier legal status. thanks to shulgin the work is already done. with legal competition out of the way now clandestine chemists will be free to produce these compounds in abundance. give it time and they be available at your friendly neighbourhood drug dealer :)

prohibition can't last anyways...... i am sure i'll see the end of it in my days

[chemboy7]

ah well, RCs are going to be more popular in time regardless of thier legal status. thanks to shulgin the work is already done. with legal competition out of the way now clandestine chemists will be free to produce these compounds in abundance. give it time and they be available at your friendly neighbourhood drug dealer :)

While I don't dispute this, I don't think it will ever be as good as it was (unless your the chemist) because even if clandestine chemist decided to start pumping these drugs on the street they are going to be in the form of "ecstacy pills" or "acid hits". You will never know what you are getting and what is coming along with it. I sincerely doubt that we will ever see 2C-E tabs being sold as such just because of the fact that the majority of the potential buyers don't know what the hell 2C-E is but everyone has heard of acid and e.

[exitwound]

the rat fuckers! :(

[superman]

chemboy you make some very valid points, but i think they will still be around as pure powders, just like mdma/mda. will certainly make it harder for those living in rural areas though

even if not though, pillreports does a sufficient job of informing you what in your pills

[jacky]

as long as countries like china allow for the legal sale of large amounts of these compounds, and as long as amino acids precursors are sold in bulk, for cheap, with no license etc, the compounds will continue to be made and sold.

I recently recieved an ad from a canadian rc vendor in my email, this company is continuing to expand their catalog, now offering a very limited catalog of 5meo dmt, 2ct-2, soon to be stocked methylone, and soon bromo dragonfly.

compounds like this bromo dragonfly are gonna end up getting this company raided by the DEA, I am sure the canadian law enforcement will allow for this like similiar cases recently of the DEA getting the go-ahead to be a law enforcement entity in canada and mexico.

this bromo compound is of similiar strength comparable to lsd, actually lasts longer, and can have some intense physical stimulant properties, being that it can fit on a blotter paper no problem I expect that the dea will seek to control this material as well.

a few years ago the DEA actually took a research compound OFF of the schedule 1, dont remember which it was, and dont really understand why they took it off, perhaps it was a mistake on their part, or perhaps some company was planning to release a drug with similiar structure, and the DEA decided to oblige and remove the compound for a few years till they released this catch all law.

the mid 90's to 2003 were amazing years for the easy access to these compounds.

what the DEA plans to do will hand the potential of millions of dollars over to the black market, and push these compounds into a market where purity, correct identification, are going to be highly suspect. essentially they are screwing themselves in the end, the logistics of precursor control alone will be staggering for them I imagine.
if many of the precursors are legal to buy, and the information is not wiped out, then the compounds will be made.
what I would like to know is what company gets to legitimately provide the amounts of reference compounds needed to control all these different drugs, there must be thousands of analogs that they are going to have to play keep up with, not too mention all the undiscovered routes of synthesis that must exist.

and then there are the novel compounds that could be completely outside of these considerations of structural similarities, existing somewhere in the plant world.

the DEA will be pushing people to discover new ways to augment their conciousness. The DEA controls drugs/compounds, but what type of control will they be able to have whence computer chips/electrical stimuli are added to the psychonauts tool belt?

[chemboy7]

Ah yes, the Nichols' (D)FLY compounds; I do believe that with how vague this new revision is that they will also be covered. As for the dose and duration though, and I hate to disagree with the Opiophounder, but 2C-B-FLY is active at 15 - 20 mg. and can last between 5 - 7 hours.

"what the DEA plans to do will hand the potential of millions of dollars over to the black market, and push these compounds into a market where purity, correct identification, are going to be highly suspect. essentially they are screwing themselves in the end, the logistics of precursor control alone will be staggering for them I imagine. if many of the precursors are legal to buy, and the information is not wiped out, then the compounds will be made."

Couldn't have said it better myself friend... the genie is out of the bottle. Good ol' Shulgin has played the biggest mind-fuck on the DEA since the dawn of prohabitionist laws. There is just no way in hell they can control all the countless analoges in the infinate alphabet soups of these classes of drugs when Shulgin has laid out the map for all to see. I am sure that this revision will stick (the shit that they throw always does) and I am also sure that it will see it's share of updates... all of which (as so eliquently quoted from the Bluelight thread) "will be outdated 5 minutes after Shulgin's next book hit's the shelves". The man has put a chip in the wall, he's fucking weakened the bastard's defense... there are so many fissures it's inevitable that this wave is going to crash through the dam... it's only a matter of time. Prohibitionist laws are bound to fail and when they do, I would bet dollars to sand that Shulgin goes down in the history books as the "revolutionary" who started throwing shit back at the monkeys.

[chemboy7]

Alright, I see what your talking about now Jacky (I'm an idoiot)... I had assumed that by "bromo-fly" you mean 2C-B-FLY (i.e. the bromo atom) when you were in fact talking about Bromo-benzodifuranyl-isopropylamine... I haven't heard of that one yet. I have just recieved the same newsletter you had mentioned; selling 100 mg for $700, look's like that's the only quantity they sell too. If it is active in doses similar to LSD (100-200 mcg) like you say then that 100 mg would contain between 50,000 to 100,000 doses. No one buys that much for personal use, I agree, they are asking for trouble with that one.

[exitwound]

2c-t-2 and 2c-t-7? damn, that company really is going to get raided, but not for a while yet.

one wonders how these people expect to sail off cleanly into the sunset, fabulously rich.....

as long as countries like china allow for the legal sale of large amounts of these compounds, and as long as amino acids precursors are sold in bulk, for cheap, with no license etc, the compounds will continue to be made and sold.

I recently recieved an ad from a canadian rc vendor in my email, this company is continuing to expand their catalog, now offering a very limited catalog of 5meo dmt, 2ct-2, soon to be stocked methylone, and soon bromo dragonfly.

compounds like this bromo dragonfly are gonna end up getting this company raided by the DEA, I am sure the canadian law enforcement will allow for this like similiar cases recently of the DEA getting the go-ahead to be a law enforcement entity in canada and mexico.

this bromo compound is of similiar strength comparable to lsd, actually lasts longer, and can have some intense physical stimulant properties, being that it can fit on a blotter paper no problem I expect that the dea will seek to control this material as well.

a few years ago the DEA actually took a research compound OFF of the schedule 1, dont remember which it was, and dont really understand why they took it off, perhaps it was a mistake on their part, or perhaps some company was planning to release a drug with similiar structure, and the DEA decided to oblige and remove the compound for a few years till they released this catch all law.

the mid 90's to 2003 were amazing years for the easy access to these compounds.

what the DEA plans to do will hand the potential of millions of dollars over to the black market, and push these compounds into a market where purity, correct identification, are going to be highly suspect. essentially they are screwing themselves in the end, the logistics of precursor control alone will be staggering for them I imagine.
if many of the precursors are legal to buy, and the information is not wiped out, then the compounds will be made.
what I would like to know is what company gets to legitimately provide the amounts of reference compounds needed to control all these different drugs, there must be thousands of analogs that they are going to have to play keep up with, not too mention all the undiscovered routes of synthesis that must exist.

and then there are the novel compounds that could be completely outside of these considerations of structural similarities, existing somewhere in the plant world.

the DEA will be pushing people to discover new ways to augment their conciousness. The DEA controls drugs/compounds, but what type of control will they be able to have whence computer chips/electrical stimuli are added to the psychonauts tool belt?

[superman]

"one wonders how these people expect to sail off cleanly into the sunset, fabulously rich....."

i'd call it a using a fall guy.
no chemist is dumb enuf to get busted selling on the net.

[poonwhalla]

then one day kids will put it on there tongs and know what to do.

[exitwound]

"one wonders how these people expect to sail off cleanly into the sunset, fabulously rich....."
i'd call it a using a fall guy.
no chemist is dumb enuf to get busted selling on the net.

One would like to think so.