suboxone withdrawls?

[madnesscult]

Can anyone tell me how long the average time it takes to get over the acute withdrawls from suboxone? I was on it for a little over 2 months, and am having a bit of a hard time.
I tried using a short-acting opiate just so I could get up and go to school/work, but it seems like I'm just putting myself back where I was when I got on the sub. I also have some immodium, but that doesn't seem to help all that much. Is there anything I can do to speed up the withdrawl period without taking some RX stuff like naxalone or something? Also, is there anything that would help with the lethargia?
The withdrawl symptoms that I experienced were very mild compared to when I tried to kick heroin, but they're still bad enough to where I really loathe having to go to work and whatnot.

[bi11i]

Neorontin has been a big help for me in the past, although not an easy one to come by. Out of curiosity, what dose were you on for the two months?

[shaunclo]

Hey madnesscult, I too am thinking about getting off my subs, I am on subutex and I think I am in for a treat because I have been IV'ing mine for almost 6 moths now, started at about .5-1mg a day, but am now at about 3-4mg's a day.

I have heard from a couple of people that they can last up to 2-3 weeks becuase of the tremendous 1/2 life that bup has, similiar to methadone. I am hoping this is not true, but think it is. There are a couple of poeple on here who have gone thru it, Im sure they will let us know what we are in for.

[madnesscult]

I started out at 8mg and tapered down to .5mg and was on that for several days, until I dropped off. Fuck, I don't think I can deal with that shit if it's going to take like 3 weeks.
I don't think that I have very much sub left in my system because even when I was taking the 1mg pills, I'd feel shitty and when I stopped the withdrawls pretty much started immediately...

I'm going to get an appointment with my doc tomorrow to see if I can get a script for some decent sleeping pills ('cos the OTC ones I've been taking don't do shit except make me more drowsy and wish even more I could sleep), and maybe I can get some of that nuerotonin. That stuff is supposed to speed up the development of the neuro-receptors in your brain, right?

[HistoryofMadness]

My sub detox was absolute hell, and it seemed like it went on forever.

I will sit down and really try to remember all the details if it willhelp. I should say that I didn't do a proper taper, but I did taper. However, I did not have ANY meds to help, except a few of the standard OTC anti-diare, sleep aids, antihistamine, a few others...

I swear though it just felt like it was going to go on forever. But 2 weeks for the worst, the 3rd week for the rundown, and you're at least out of the thick...

The 2 worst, by far, conditions that you'll have to deal with are (or at least mine were) depression, which for me translated into the worst possible cravings you could imagine, and sleeplessness... in fact, my sleep is STILL fucked, and I wonder if it'll ever be better. But seriously I did go probably 3 fucking months without sleep, and I tried a SHIT TON of diphenhydramine, all the PM's, ambien and lunesta... the only thing that really worked was an atypical antipsychotic like seroquel and / or zyprexa... flatliners... that's a bitch.

I'll work on some and get back to ya.

[shaunclo]

My sub detox was absolute hell, and it seemed like it went on forever.

I will sit down and really try to remember all the details if it willhelp. I should say that I didn't do a proper taper, but I did taper. However, I did not have ANY meds to help, except a few of the standard OTC anti-diare, sleep aids, antihistamine, a few others...

I swear though it just felt like it was going to go on forever. But 2 weeks for the worst, the 3rd week for the rundown, and you're at least out of the thick...

The 2 worst, by far, conditions that you'll have to deal with are (or at least mine were) depression, which for me translated into the worst possible cravings you could imagine, and sleeplessness... in fact, my sleep is STILL fucked, and I wonder if it'll ever be better. But seriously I did go probably 3 fucking months without sleep, and I tried a SHIT TON of diphenhydramine, all the PM's, ambien and lunesta... the only thing that really worked was an atypical antipsychotic like seroquel and / or zyprexa... flatliners... that's a bitch.

I'll work on some and get back to ya.

Jesus Christ History!!!

Are you serious? so it is true, its a good 3 week detox. FUCK!!! What amount of sub did you stop at?

[johnny27]

never been on bup. But if i had no real meds (benzo's etc) i always used to buy alot of bottles of DXM. Was still hard, but it def helped, i just took enough to feel the dxm, a borderline dose, none of the PCP type effects. You know there are some withdrawls you really remember cause it was so bad, and there's other you don't remember or think alot off, because they where tough but not terribly bad. Well taking the DXM for me in WD's made it into the type where when i think back i don't have real bad memeriores off, compared to the ones with no medication to help. Hope you understand.
Also i found loperamide off no help what so ever

[HistoryofMadness]

Jesus Christ History!!!

Are you serious? so it is true, its a good 3 week detox. FUCK!!! What amount of sub did you stop at?

Sorry I deleted the first of that post and not the last... ooppss I was drinking last night and everything I did didn't make sense..

The point I made (or meant to make) was that the WORST of the symptoms, the ones that we just don't want to live with, the standard acute withdrawal shit, is over in 5 days to a week, much like any other opiate, and WILL be better or worse depending on your reality.

I mean, if you were still in love with your drug, of course you're gonna fucking hate life more than someone who is coming off of something that made them feel like shit... anyway you get that point...

The part that takes 2-3 weeks are the more mild acute withdrawal symptoms, some stomach shit, restless legs went on for too long for me (over 2 weeks), but I could certainly move around (usually to a bar but couldn't drink much)....

That stuff and the MENTAL kick... because to whatever degree it is for you, the main purpose of subs is to help with cravings, and man that shit comes back with a vengeance; and depression, that in hindsight, I would've treated because it may have gone away much sooner.

In fact, wellbutrin helps cravings and depression, so that may be a good one to get some (I'd say at least 3 months worth, at a pretty high level, say 300mg / day)...

Anyway I'm still working on more details and less ramble for bi11i's thread, so look there for the rest of this.

[shaunclo]

Sorry I deleted the first of that post and not the last... ooppss I was drinking last night and everything I did didn't make sense...

NO EXCUSES HISTORY!!! I expect a lot more from YOU!

Naw, I really appreciate any advice and or stories you have from coming off of bup, cause Im probably going to do it very soon. Cant wait till you post on the other thread, I am very anxious to read it.

[HistoryofMadness]

NO EXCUSES HISTORY!!! I expect a lot more from YOU!

Naw, I really appreciate any advice and or stories you have from coming off of bup, cause Im probably going to do it very soon. Cant wait till you post on the other thread, I am very anxious to read it.

Shit man now you've put so much pressure on it... I just.... I'm just... fuck it maybe something inebriating will help....

I will say this, for at least the short time being (now close to a year) I've been chipped very little strictly out of fear of going through a full-blown kick again. I've switched opiates, and switched drugs and returned to my 'choice' and drank through a couple of months of not using, but last summer the final kick (I hope) and it was from subs, but I was chipping (like you shaunclo) through the last part...

Anyway, after about 5 months of serious serious cravings, and my efforts to redirect them to chocolcate, and tea (and no, not just the opie kind, in fact only a few cups of that)... I still won't chip heroin or pills really (maybe 3 times each in a year, I think) fuck that kicking shit. Goddammit.

Oh well, lemme go get more coffee that I don't think about kicking. . .

[shaunclo]

Oh well, lemme go get more coffee that I don't think about kicking. . .

I think I will help myself to a second cup myself, cause those neurontins I took last night are about to make my face have a keyboard imprint on it. I swear those nurontins last for fuckin ever.

BTW: Your quote is one of the funniest lines I have ever heard from a movie, Its the Big Lebowski.....right? Goddamn that is one of the best movies of all time. When I heard him say that toe thing, I almost died of laughter, Oh God, good times.

[HistoryofMadness]

BTW: Your quote is one of the funniest lines I have ever heard from a movie, Its the Big Lebowski.....right? Goddamn that is one of the best movies of all time. When I heard him say that toe thing, I almost died of laughter, Oh God, good times.

werd... one of the best movies ever. That's where my avatar's from too...

Gonna get together a Big Lebowski or Coen Brothers thread soon... that's where its at my blogga!

[madnesscult]

Hey History of Madness, were the wd's pretty severe? Were they not as bad as, let's say, kicking heroin? Thanks for the input so far though.

[HistoryofMadness]

Hey History of Madness, were the wd's pretty severe? Were they not as bad as, let's say, kicking heroin? Thanks for the input so far though.

No not by any means worse than H. 'd say worse than I expected. I'd been told what a lot of people on it or around it have been.. that the WD aren't that bad.

The problem was the half-life was so long, I didn't know I was in for WD (the first time) until day 3. I had run out a day before my doc's appt. (day 1), and felt so good the day of the appt. (day 2) I just called and cancelled the appt... and went on my merry way.

Then day 3 hit, and the WD were the real thing. Like I said somewhere else, it wasn't the (around 5 day) acute WD, or the second week of semi-WD, it was the LONG post-acute.

Of course I got on them after a long IV run, and a methadone maintenance program, over all several years of using pretty much daily. So the PAWS wasn't just from the subs, but from all the use...

I think people think methadone is so hard to detox from because its not just after MMT but years of using. In my experience subs don't offer a short-cut around that...

[opiobsessed]

Holy shit I'm on 24mg suboxone daily, I"m now been on it for a year and a half, I will not even think of the wd's I would die from if I got cut off somehow etc. I keep trying from time to time to start saving up a few 8mg's and start cutting my dose down, due to the fact that I"m strung out on these subs totally now. I mean I barely get any buzz or maybe 20 mins of ambition with each dose and thats about it. I for a fact tried skipping my sub dose recently when I woke up, I went all day even till 4 pm without my sub. I did it because I was waiting for some real goodies to come my way, well a big mistake happened and I wasn't able to get my full opiate warmth till about 7pm that night. All I can say is I dont know about any other of you on a dose of sub I"m on, but for me, I started getting close to full blown wd's just from skipping a little less than 24 hours of my last sub dose, in fact when I finally couldn't stand it that day anymore I broke down and took my dose to hold me until I got my goodies. I was so dissapointed because I had to go pick up my real goodies and start all over again, skipping my subs, luckily I had some benzo's in my stash to help me through 24 hours. Then I had 3 days of full agonist fun with another hydro binge and benzo's for the comedown before going back on sub. Damn I gotta get money coming in, I"m getting on that methadone as soon as things get all in place. By the way I just saw my sub doc a few days ago and he gave me my usual sub script and said the next step is methadone for me, but yet he still gave me my sub script but why I can't understand is he gave me prozac too, I been on that before and it didn't help depression much, strange. I just hope something happens soon, because I"m right back to square one in my life right now, I barely get anything done around here anymore or even enjoy doing much anymore, all I want to do is find an H hook up or oxy or anyone in my area who can handle the demand of a junky hog like me. I do stuff to keep my mind off it, but it just doesn't seem to go away, I just crave opiates like mad.

[HistoryofMadness]

Holy shit I'm on 24mg suboxone daily, I"m now been on it for a year and a half, I will not even think of the wd's I would die from if I got cut off somehow etc. I keep trying from time to time to start saving up a few 8mg's and start cutting my dose down, due to the fact that I"m strung out on these subs totally now. I mean I barely get any buzz or maybe 20 mins of ambition with each dose and thats about it. I for a fact tried skipping my sub dose recently when I woke up, I went all day even till 4 pm without my sub. I did it because I was waiting for some real goodies to come my way, well a big mistake happened and I wasn't able to get my full opiate warmth till about 7pm that night. All I can say is I dont know about any other of you on a dose of sub I"m on, but for me, I started getting close to full blown wd's just from skipping a little less than 24 hours of my last sub dose, in fact when I finally couldn't stand it that day anymore I broke down and took my dose to hold me until I got my goodies. I was so dissapointed because I had to go pick up my real goodies and start all over again, skipping my subs, luckily I had some benzo's in my stash to help me through 24 hours. Then I had 3 days of full agonist fun with another hydro binge and benzo's for the comedown before going back on sub. Damn I gotta get money coming in, I"m getting on that methadone as soon as things get all in place. By the way I just saw my sub doc a few days ago and he gave me my usual sub script and said the next step is methadone for me, but yet he still gave me my sub script but why I can't understand is he gave me prozac too, I been on that before and it didn't help depression much, strange. I just hope something happens soon, because I"m right back to square one in my life right now, I barely get anything done around here anymore or even enjoy doing much anymore, all I want to do is find an H hook up or oxy or anyone in my area who can handle the demand of a junky hog like me. I do stuff to keep my mind off it, but it just doesn't seem to go away, I just crave opiates like mad.

I would say skipping doses would be the first step for you to thin out by finding out when the WD start... maybe just twice a day? Then get that stabilized and maybe drop your dosage.

I say this because I know that doc's aren't always up to speed and experienced with subs, because they're new. In the meantime their ignorance (which is never admitted) affects patients.

I had a monster habit, IV'ing H and D, and after being inducted on 16mg / day (4mg x 4) I dropped way down to 8mg... and because it has such a long half-life, I started skipping days as part of my maintenance plan (I'd throw a short-acting agonist, like D in every now and then)... but once you are on subs you should be able to move down without much harm.

One thing is, and I think you've already mentioned it, keep that dose in your mouth with as little saliva for as long as possible. Most goes in up front, but I've never seen ANY studies on the rate of ingestion... it can't be 100% do how much do we really get.

Oh yeah and a shortcut... swish a small amount of a high-powerd alcohol in your mouth just before dosing... I've heard it really opens the cells in the mouth and gets them ready for the drug.

[opiobsessed]

Since the subs dont work well for me anymore, I've been doing a little experimenting. Because I have a past digestive disorder, things are a little different for me, first sometimes there is not much saliva in my mouth and it takes a long time for the pill to dissolve and then sometimes I just have alot of saliva and it dissolves quicker but I rarely get a uplifting little buzz from it anymore. Few days ago, I tried a crushed up 8mg up the snoot and that didn't change anything, lately I alternate between under the tongue and then holding the saliva etc for 5 mins or to just putting the pill between my big back teeth and crushing it all up and swishing it all around in my mouth and holding that saliva for 10 mins. Sometimes it seems to help a little, but I dont know if its just in my head or if there is an ideal way to take these things. My sub doctor always reminds me to fully dissolve under tongue and hold saliva 10 mins before swallowing, but then of course they are new to this drug so I dont know what's best. Also I notice after swallowing the saliva, the taste of the med is still in your mouth for a while and at the beginning back when I first started the sub program, I noticed that if I kept swallowing excess saliva too much right after first swallowing the pill as I'm supposed to that I felt a slight wd start to come on one time, this is a strange drug, seems like there's a lot of messing around you have to do before you get it down good.

[madnesscult]

By the time I got down to less than 2mg, I wouldn't need even a day to go into wd's...by the next morning, before I took my dose, I would feel like shit, and the .5mg wouldn't help that much.

I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to do this, because I tried stopping the sub altogether from .5mg and after 3 days I couldn't deal with it. It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have school and work to deal with, and I've ended up going back on H for the past 4 days or so (I only have about 6 mg of sub left). We shall see.