Please give me your input on this one.

[Papa Verine]

Let's say, hypothetically, someone had a tolerance of 100mg of Oxycodone a day. They took it every day and they felt OK on it. Maintenance...

Then... all of a sudden, they get dropped down to 1 10mg Norco a day. Just like that. No taper, no warning.

Of course that 10mg Norco isn't going to keep the withdrawals away. But with withdrawals comes a lowered tolerance. And, this isn't 100% Cold Turkey here, although it might as well be.

Would this person eventually get stable on the 10mg of Hydro? Would they get to a point where they could maintain on that 1 Norco the same way they WERE maintaining before on the 100mg of Oxy? Would they eventually be able to take 2 or 3 Norcos and get high?

It's something I'm thinking about right now because of what happened to my seed source. It was potent for a long time. I had a high tolerance for a long time. Now, all of a sudden the seeds are worthless. I mean, I can drink 3 cups and get no noticable relief from my withdrawals. There are other sources and they're much weaker then what I'm used to, but they do contain some opiates.

If I start using these weak seeds, in the same amounts I used the potent ones for so long, will I eventually grow accustomed to them and be able to maintain the way I was before? I don't really want to get high. I just don't want to be sick, and I don't want to be 100% opiate-free. I can settle for much less if I'll eventually grow accustomed to the lower dose. Can this be done???

Thoughts????

[doctor diesel]

I think the inevitable answers are: yes, yes, yes and yes. I don't see that it could work any other way.
But how many days of suffering would be involved before you get to the point where the '10mg' is holding you nicely, and would it be worth all the suffering?
Hmmm... you're a brave person if you're really gonna go ahead with that.
Best of luck!


Doc

[OxiContinKing]

everyone is diffenet, and there are many variables, as you know, but i would think that you've pretty mcuh got it, thats pretty much how i would think it would turn out...

or should turn out...

and like you said, that one norco isnt going to alleviate any w/d symptoms, but i would expect to feel like shit a lot longer than w/d's would last...as long as it took to get 'level' with just that one norco...

i guess what i would be asking myself, is if i was going to drop all the way down to one norco from a couple oxy's a day, why not just come all the way off...?

im not sure what that one norco would really do for me, although i am the type of person that would take it, even if all the effects were mental (placebo).

your body has to adjust, and become stable, at some point in time, weather or not you are taking one norco, drinking one cup of pst,or ten, or atleast, i would think...

[30_Units]

I'd think it could-I mean I don't see why not. Of course there will be some discomfort-but I don't see why maintaining on the same (lower) dose wouldn't, over time, become the 'new normal' if that makes any sense.

Good luck-sending you an email.

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

PV,
I successfully quit my 80mg a day oxy habit and just started using Norco. At first the Norco just kept me well but as time when on I began to feel them more an more. When I stopped taking the oxy I was taking 8-10 Norco a day. Fast forward 2 years later and I can get a good buzz off of 30mg of Norco, although there are days(like today) where I induldge and take 40mg doses(which feel awesome btw). So in conclusion, yes, you can do it. Although just taking one might suck for a while, but your system will adjust and you will begin to get high(or maintain in your case) on the Norco.

[BlueMajick]

Yes this would work, but you are looking at at least 5 days of discomfort. I'm like you in that I would still take the "1 Norco" each day even if it didn't really do much more than nothing at all, but just being able to take something would be so much better to me than cold turkey, and I'd probably save the one time dose for right before I climb into bed.

I had a similar experience though recently, with someone I know. Last week Thursday they had 80mg of Oxycodone, about what they had been maintaining on every day for a month or more. Friday morning they had 20mg left, so they did that promptly upon waking, but then couldn't figure out how to get any more that day, it was of course a horrible shitty day, and that night they got no sleep. Saturday they got their hands on 40mg, so they did 20mg Saturday around noon, and felt better for most of the day (compared to the previous day, obviously not great though, not feeling any semblance of a high). That night they took 10mg before bed, slept better than the previous night, then woke up the next day and had the remaining 10mg. Sunday they couldn't get their hands on any more, so they went that whole day with only the 10mg from the morning. Finally Sunday night they got their hands on 80mg, and did 40mg as soon as they could all at once, doing as much as they had in an entire day in an instant. From Monday morning onward, they were able to obtain the 80mg a day again, but Monday only did a total of 50mg, and still was able to feel fantastic all day, even a week later, 30mg will send them into the stratosphere.

So from Friday to Monday, they cut their tolerance in about half or more. Obviously this reduced tolerance isn't going to last long when they keep pushing 80mg a day, but imagine if they hadn't jumped their dose right back up; by now, (a week later) they could probably get some buzz only doing 20mg a day.

So.... I think you have the right idea, but the withdrawals will feel almost as bad as cold turkey for a while... unless you can consume much more PST, of the less potent variety, for 2-3 days to let your body get accustomed with less of a shock to the system.

[kellyblue]

Wow Papa V- I've been wondering the same thing... although I have a much higher "Daily Use History". I won't say higher tolerance, because I'm not sure what your "tolerance" really is- I'm just basing it on your 100mg. a day oxy "use".

I've been taking roughly 360 mgs. of roxy a day... for pain relief. I can "Maintain" on about 100mgs. a day with just a tad of discomfort. I jacked my tolerance through the roof just trying to get good pain relief and now have screwed myself- at least until I can find a doc willing to help. Current pm doc thinks that 2 years at 120mgs. a day should STILL be working... won't prescribe 'done, and I can't afford anything else. He also won't do breakthru's- ever! So- he WILL give me oxy er, but I can't afford them, and other then the 30 mg. roxi's instead, he's not willing to switch.

Obviously, my monthly script isn't even lasting two weeks, and I don't have any other sources right now. Had a good 'done hook-up, but thanks to her own stupidity, that's gone now. So- I've decided that since I can't get the pain relief I need I'm pretty much done with this shit until I can find a new doc. Why continue to take meds that don't help... only to be sick for two weeks out of every month anyway. ( I haven't gotten the least bit high from the meds in over 18 months...)

Sorry- I'll get to it now! I'm tapering myself pretty fast... and hope to God that I can get through the next two weeks with as little "sick" as possible. The funeral last week was pretty rough... took more meds than I'd hoped to, and now have THREE weeks of planned activities that I HAVE to get through. My son is coming for a week, haven't seen him in two years. I'm going on a family trip in 10 days that's paid for and I can NOT bail... this isn't a good month to quit, but don't have a choice.

I'm hoping the fact that I DO have 30 mgs. of Roxi a day to get through the month will at least keep the worst of the w/d at bay. I started this on Weds. and so far have only been a little uncomfortable, but I've been taking 90 mgs. a day. Today I go to 60 for a couple days, and after that it's 30 mg.s a day- period! I'm hoping that the old brain/bod will figure out that THIS is all it's getting, and it's better than nothing and will eventually settle in.

Of course, I'd love to completely stop this shit... but I simply can NOT get out of bed without a little help. Once I'm up and moving, have the muscles working a bit... the pain is still bad, but not unbearable most days. Keeping to the 30 mgs. a day will give me a few extra for the days that I truly need them, but dammit- I'm sick of this shit! I'm spending almost $300.00 a month on a doctor and meds that don't help! I'd be better off buying H off the street... but certainly don't want to just ADD to the mess I've already made!

So- sorry to derail... just wanted to let you know that you've got a partner in crime here going through the same thing you are... and hoping the best for both of us. This shit is just getting old, ya' know? Here's hoping that we both get through this with as little discomfort as possible! (I think I'd be ok with the w/d if I didn't have my dad to take care of every day. He simply does not understand that I need to spend a week in the bathroom and in bed to get through the worst of this, ya' know?)

[chopstix]

I've done it multiple times, from a heavy pod habit down to one single Norco a day, for several days, and then jumped.

I tapered, but if you went straight from a decent habit to just one pill a day, you'd adjust within a week or so..

[Papa Verine]

Thanks everybody. It was cool to read all this. I used the "Oxy to Norco" example because it closely relates to what I have to work with and it's very difficult to explain a PST habit to anyone who doesn't do it themselves. If you can find the right seeds, and use enough of them, there's much morphine to be had. Last summer I was drinking so much of this potent seed that I couldn't even feel a bag of heroin. It wouldn't touch my tea habit.

So... those seeds are gone now. The only other ones I have to work with are about 1/10th to 1/20th the potency. Most of the time I don't even bother using them, but there's just this tiny little relief from my withdrawals that sometimes it seems worth it to buy the worthless seeds.

And what I've been wondering, in a nut-shell, is if I keep drinking this worthless crap anyway, will it eventually become "decent" tea to me? Considering I don't cheat and use any other "real" opiates... I think it will. I think eventually I'll be able to maintain with it and feel allright. But you can all bet your asses I'll be looking around for those old potent ones. They're somewhere around this fair city.

[Indy]

In my experience you have to go down then up, because if you just keep doing that low dose, you'll sort of approach that tolerance but never quite reach it, and in the mean time it's hard to not just do more. sort of like the paradox about the guy taking a step, then half a step, then a quarter step, etc etc... but if you just do nothing for a little while, THEN go onto the weak seeds, it might work better.

[youwonhundred]

Just my two cents worth, but anything has to be better than nothing, right? Sure, it may suck while you get used to it, but anything has to be better than the cold hard reality of being straight.

[losangeleslifer]

I don't really know Papa.

I use every 2 weeks, and the 30 script of 5/mg Vicos didn't do shit for me.

Then again I have a voracious appetitie for EVERYthing.

Hope you have good luck friend.

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

So Papa V I was searching through this forum and was wondering if you ever tried your plan? Did you get down to 1 10mg Norc a day? Did you get a buzz off of that 1 after a while?

*Thread was from July 09(not too old), thought it was best to post here instead of starting a new thread. That isn't considered a noob move is it :p*

[Papa Verine]

So Papa V I was searching through this forum and was wondering if you ever tried your plan? Did you get down to 1 10mg Norc a day? Did you get a buzz off of that 1 after a while?

*Thread was from July 09(not too old), thought it was best to post here instead of starting a new thread. That isn't considered a noob move is it :p*

No... And if you read all my posts in this thread I wasn't really taking Norcos or Oxy. I used to have a very potent poppy seed source. I can't imagine how they got so contaminated with opium. They were excellent seeds with lots of morphine on them.

So, what happened is that the brands that carried that good seed changed supply and the new seeds they all carry now are awefully worthless. They aren't good for anything, not even helping withdrawals. At the time I wrote this original thread I was mistaken about the "very weak potency". These seeds actually contain zero opiates! 100 ounces of poppy seeds didn't get rid of my withdrawals the last time I tried. Withdrawals from my poppy seed tea habit... not like some major IV heroin habit. Jesus...

So, as it turns out, I suffered for a few days, but also had a stroke of luck. I walked in a Polish store I used to buy good seeds from, a store that stopped selling any poppy seeds for about a year. Well, now they carry a brand. Sold in bulk for $3 a / lb. They're allright. Not like those potent ones I used to get but good enough. And I have adjusted well. I have a maintanance dose I drink every day... but if I want to I can have a few extra cups and have a real good fuckin day!

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

No... And if you read all my posts in this thread I wasn't really taking Norcos or Oxy. I used to have a very potent poppy seed source. I can't imagine how they got so contaminated with opium. They were excellent seeds with lots of morphine on them.

So, what happened is that the brands that carried that good seed changed supply and the new seeds they all carry now are awefully worthless. They aren't good for anything, not even helping withdrawals. At the time I wrote this original thread I was mistaken about the "very weak potency". These seeds actually contain zero opiates! 100 ounces of poppy seeds didn't get rid of my withdrawals the last time I tried. Withdrawals from my poppy seed tea habit... not like some major IV heroin habit. Jesus...

So, as it turns out, I suffered for a few days, but also had a stroke of luck. I walked in a Polish store I used to buy good seeds from, a store that stopped selling any poppy seeds for about a year. Well, now they carry a brand. Sold in bulk for $3 a / lb. They're allright. Not like those potent ones I used to get but good enough. And I have adjusted well. I have a maintanance dose I drink every day... but if I want to I can have a few extra cups and have a real good fuckin day!
Wow I feel like a fuckin retard. I did't read all the way through this thread(I blame it on my ADD ;) I read your first post and assumed you were talking about maintaining on a low dose of Norco, my mistake.