I need help from my grower friends

[Papa Verine]

I went and visited my Cannabis garden today and I'm not too crazy about the condition I found it in.

I wish I had a cemera with me but I didn't at the time, was just going to check on them and grab a sample. (Suprisingly good for small leaves)

Anyway, I have huge stems and all the new growth spurting off the main stem looks healthy. The tops all looked healthy. But I'm finding that all my fan leaves are dying. I understand that the lower fan leaves die off as the plant grows taller, but I mean way too many of my fan leaves, way too high up, are dying completely.

So... I'm hoping somebody knows what this means. I'm growing a strain I know nothing about, outdoors. I've always had nice gardens. This has never happened to me...

Infestation?

Fungus?

They might've gone for a period without much rain when I should have taken the trip to water them, but it wasn't that bad. My gardens in the past have always survived some dry periods. It wasn't that long...

And for those of you wondering why I'm so open about this, having posted pictures of myself, and often talking of my location, it's only a misdemeanor in Illinois to be caught growing less then 5 plants. And all I have now is 2. (Pulled a sick one, and one male. They gave up their sex already.)

Fuck... I can handle a misdemeanor. And I can't see any LE wasting their time and efforts on one either. They'd never find it anyway...

[Morphus]

Nutrient deficiency? under/over fertilization?

[Gimpy]

Without a picture or a whole lot more details it's difficult to say.

How much light does the bottom of the plant get? It'll loose bottom leaves quicker if it's heavily in shade (well hidden). Are the leaves curling? Does it start from the edge and move inward, or does the whole leaf look the same color? Are there spots or splotches? Are the veins a noticably different color from the rest of the leaf? Is it in a container or directly in the ground? What type of fertilizer is being used? When was it last fertilized?

Mold, Spider Mites, and/or over fertilization are the first places my mind goes. Maybe too small a container if it's in one.

[Papa Verine]

Without a picture or a whole lot more details it's difficult to say.

How much light does the bottom of the plant get? It'll loose bottom leaves quicker if it's heavily in shade (well hidden). Are the leaves curling? Does it start from the edge and move inward, or does the whole leaf look the same color? Are there spots or splotches? Are the veins a noticably different color from the rest of the leaf? Is it in a container or directly in the ground? What type of fertilizer is being used? When was it last fertilized?

Mold, Spider Mites, and/or over fertilization are the first places my mind goes. Maybe too small a container if it's in one.

Hmmm... Thanks Gimpy. There are a couple possibilities. Something I didn't mention in my first post is that I actually found some small pests nesting on one of the plants. Looked like spider mites to me. But that was one spot on 2 4 ft. plants. I thought there was something bigger going on here. I fertilized, about a month ago with a decent slow release formula. Maybe not enough Nitrogen.... I'm going to add N. There was beginning to be more shade because they're surrounded by cat-tails and the cat-tails are getting huge. I knocked them all down flat in a circular pattern around the site, so they will get more sun. I killed those cat-tails a couple years ago and just didn't realize how fast they were recovering this year.

So, I'll get an organic pesticide, add some N (and later my secret flowering formula), I knocked out the cat-tails already. Maybe they'll make a nice recovery. The plants weren't dead... just not looking real good. And fuck! The small leaves I plucked are getting me high. Sure you gotta' take a few more hits then usual but I'm impressed with the potency at this stage!

[monkeyphunk]

an n deficiency will usually turn the the fans yellow. Maybe tbeyre gettin too much water or the dirt doesn't have enough drainage ...try rollitup site
Hmmm... Thanks Gimpy. There are a couple possibilities. Something I didn't mention in my first post is that I actually found some small pests nesting on one of the plants. Looked like spider mites to me. But that was one spot on 2 4 ft. plants. I thought there was something bigger going on here. I fertilized, about a month ago with a decent slow release formula. Maybe not enough Nitrogen.... I'm going to add N. There was beginning to be more shade because they're surrounded by cat-tails and the cat-tails are getting huge. I knocked them all down flat in a circular pattern around the site, so they will get more sun. I killed those cat-tails a couple years ago and just didn't realize how fast they were recovering this year.

So, I'll get an organic pesticide, add some N (and later my secret flowering formula), I knocked out the cat-tails already. Maybe they'll make a nice recovery. The plants weren't dead... just not looking real good. And fuck! The small leaves I plucked are getting me high. Sure you gotta' take a few more hits then usual but I'm impressed with the potency at this stage!

[chopstix]

What happens with the dying leaves? Yellowing from the tips? Holes??

Drainage, hydration, soil PH, soil nutrient levels, possible toxins - are they in pots or the ground?

I'd get some Neem oil for the mites and check the soil conditions..

[Papa Verine]

They're in a huge pot. I mean BIG pot. I've grown five plants in this one pot before and never had a problem with the roots being bound.

I'm sorry I started this thread before I had all the info. I'm going to go back today and try to be more specific about how the fan leaves are dying. And bring some Nitrogen with me!

There's nowhere around here to grow weed outdoors without someone finding it. I had to get very creative. There are these wetlands, with standing water and cat-tails. I waded out there a couple years ago and planted a table in the muck, then placed a 100 lb. pot on top of the table. I grow in that pot. I've always had great harvests.

And nobody in their right fucking mind would be out walking around in there! It's surrounded by trees but my pot is out in the middle of the cat-tails. I killed them off around the pot to let the sun shine in, but this year they made a HUGE comeback. I had to smash them down again yesterday. I didn't realize they were getting so tall!

[pain-pateint]

It's most likely due to the plants having the sun obstructed by the cat tails. It wouldn't hurt to add some N as they will fix more N in the kind relatively cool temps we have had in the midwest this summer.

[Ickyuck]

Papa San, seems like ya have quite the green thumb ;)

[Papa Verine]

Papa San, seems like ya have quite the green thumb ;)

They used to call me that at work. Except... you know... my name San. (It was a Japanese company)

Yeah... that's what I thought too. But these plants are hurtin'.

Fuck, I gotta go. I have so much shit to do today and here I am wasting away on Opiophile. What else is new?

[Indy]

What do you use as a pesticide Papa V? I've heard white vinegar works but i'd be worried about the acid.

[chopstix]

What do you use as a pesticide Papa V? I've heard white vinegar works but i'd be worried about the acid.

Not to speak for Papa, but most recommend "Neem" oil. I'd be curious to know what he uses too if it's something different..

[monkeyphunk]

Vinegar wil adjust the ph its actually what I use to adjust my phWhat do you use as a pesticide Papa V? I've heard white vinegar works but i'd be worried about the acid.

[Papa Verine]

Here's the thing guys. In the past I used to grow a strain I was very familiar with. NL #5. The seeds were from a seed bank in Amsterdam and they were fuckin' immune to infestations. I never saw any bug bites worth noting on that strain. It was excellent. I haven't had to use any pesticides since the 90's when I grew seeds I picked out of good bags of weed.

This year I really wasn't planning on growing, or making much of an effort anyway. I saved some seeds from a particularly good bag of mid-grade and planted them in late March. It snowed twice AFTER I planted and much to my suprize these 4 plants were already huge, and healthy by late April. That got me a little more excited. I figured this was a hardy strain, maybe something really worthwhile. The leaves are very fat, like an Indica, and they're already showing their sex. I have 2 females. the 2 biggest plants. I want to save them now and since I haven't had any problems growing the last few years I figured I'd ask around here for some help.

Thanks everyone! Neem oil it is Chops, thanks for the info. There are spider mites attacking them. I saw more today. I killed off all the cat-tails around them so they're getting much more sun. I added some nutrients. Made sure they aren't root-bound. I didn't see any roots through the drain holes at the bottom. I covered the soil with dead fan leaf debris so it doesn't dry out too fast if we don't get rain.

As soon as I get the Neem oil I think they still have a fighting chance. I WILL get pictures if they recover nicely.

The biggest suprize by far is that the small tops and small leaves I pulled from the top of the plants is getting me high!!!!!!!! Sure I have to take a few extra hits, maybe 15 or so, but then it's a real good high, and lasts for hours. These buds are going to be somthing else! And that's not to mention, they'll be pure Sensimilla, as opposed to the bud I got the seeds from. It wouldn't be the first time I grew weed that turned out better then the bud I got the seeds from. I got my fingers crossed...

edit: there's no errant pollen around here. Out of 6 seasons I've never produced a seed. That's why I don't have any more good ones!

[Gimpy]

Is the bottom of the container actually in the water? If so, that's the problem, the containers need to be up out of the water. If the bottom of the stems have a bunch of little bumps/root buds on them it's a sign the main roots aren't happy.

[Papa Verine]

Is the bottom of the container actually in the water? If so, that's the problem, the containers need to be up out of the water. If the bottom of the stems have a bunch of little bumps/root buds on them it's a sign the main roots aren't happy.

No, no, no... I have it high enough so that even a flooding rain won't reach the bottom of the pot. I know all about the basics. I've just never personally had a problem with mites or fungus or any other infestations that might be attacking my plants right now. So, I thought it'd be wise to ask you good people.

I went back there tonight around midnight. They're looking better already, but I still have dying fan leaves. The one thing I noticed now is that the leaves are dying from the tips first, then eventually the whole leaf is dead. Does anybody know if this means anything? There aren't any big holes in the leaves where it looks like a bug chomped down on them. They're just dying... tips first.

Any ideas on why? I'm trying to diagnose my problem(s). Sunlight is taken care of. Nutrients are taken care of. Bugs are still not taken care of, but I'll get the Neem oil chopstix recommended by tomorrow. So any bugs are soon to be dead hopefully.

Why are my fan leaves dying off??? It's just the biggest ones. All new growth looks very healthy.

[chopstix]

Lack of water or nutrient burn? I'm sure you know you can over-fertilize, do you fertilize every time you water and how often do you water them??

They make kits for testing soil nut. levels, I think that's where I'd be looking, that and maybe the PH of the solution you're watering with, should be about 6.5..

[Paregoric Kid]

try giving them water with plant food for flowering plants. if you already are make sure you aren't giving it too much. also trim some of the leaves off, at least ones that are dying/drying up. some plants can really look dead from not getting enough water, but once they get water they look good as ever in an hour or so. the tips of the leaves can start to get dry even on healthy plants.

[Papa Verine]

I go real easy on fertilizer. I never use even the recommended dose. I've only fertilized once, a couple months ago, but it was a 10-10-10 slow release pellet fertilizer. I just now gave them another shot of that... but not too much. I'm absolutely certain I didn't over-fertilize my plants. There are enough organic nutrients in the soil, I just supplement with the pellets to be sure.

There was a dry hot spell here the week before I left for PA. I was concerned about them and I probably should've been watering them that week. All this dying off could be a result of that dry week. Because as I metioned all the new growth looks very healthy.

Right now they're in the ICU. I'm monitoring them every day. I'm about to put on an old pair of jeans and go visit today. I'm pretty sure I'm going to save the girls. And I promise pics to come.

Thanks everybody for your advice/ideas. Chops - I'm going for that Neem oil today too. Do you think I can find it at a local nursery? We have plenty of nurseries/garden centers around here. If I can't find that particular oil I'll look for something similar. Something organic that I won't have to worry about smoking later. And I'd never spray any insecticide directly on the buds anyway. I'll use it if I have to until it gets close to harvest time then I'll leave the plants to nature for the last couple weeks.

edit: I did remove all the dead growth. They're all green now. I just hope they stay that way from now until October... or whenever they reach maturity.

[Papa Verine]

Well... I tried with these fuckin plants and I don't know what it was. I got some insecticide/fungicide (containing Neel oil) and applied that a couple times. But, one of the 2 plants completely died, and the one that's left looks healthier then ever.

I don't get it. They were both in the same pot (It's huge, plenty of room for one monster), both shared the same soil and water... One is dead and the other looks beautiful.

Maybe I was just a little too late with the Fungicide for that plant. I'm not even 100% sure they were both the same variety. I had a handful of mixed seed I collected from decent weed. All similar but different bags, and certainly different Indica/Sativa hybrids of some unknown %. Mid-grade bullshit...

I only grow for personal use, so I don't have to give some dick-head all my money to get high. The last girl I have should be plenty, for a while, as long as she stays healthy. I have a good proven high-phos fertilizer for flowering I'll add in August/September.

Wish her luck please...

[Mustelid]

Cannabis uses a lot more magnesium then most plants, so most fertilizer is short on it. I'd recommend trying some epsom salts from the grocery store, dissolve and water with about a tablespoon per gallon.

[chopstix]

G'luck girly...

Missed your last question - VM me next time..

FWIW - I live in hippy land and can get neem oil from the local whole-foods cooperatives that are all over the place. I think it has several uses, but I've read it repeatedly mentioned on grow boards as an organic, very effective pesticide.. Hopefully you won't need anymore of it, but if you do, you might wanna go straight neem oil (diluted with water, you'd have to google the ratio) as opposed to some non-organic mixture.. Especially for something you plan to smoke...

[Papa Verine]

No Chops, I was able to find an organic product that contained only Neem Oil, and no other chemicals. But, it seems like the shit is pretty potent. It's only 1.5% or so. And the plant that survived doesn't seem to have any problem anymore. I will get some Epsom salts and add that just to be sure. Thanks Mustelid.

I checked on it today, still looks good and healthy. If we keep getting rain I'll just leave it alone.

[Papa Verine]

I have a new question for the experts.

I've been pretty broke lately and during these hard times I can't always afford bud. But I must have a pretty decent variety growing because I can pluck off some of the tops (new growth), dry them out, and if I smoke a joint to myself this leaf gets me good and high.

So, this leads to my questions. I understand when you "top off" a cannabis plant it branches off into 2 or more when the new growth comes up. Well... I think I might've "pruned" mine a bit too much because of my lack of money. I didn't want to do this, it was pretty stupid, I just wanted to smoke so bad I did it... several times.

How is this excessive pruning going to hurt my over-all growth? I know I'll have many small buds instead of one big cola but most importantly, will I end up with a lower yield in the end because of this? Also...can the stress cause a hermaphrodite?

Any help with these questions? I'm leaving it alone from now on! just wondering if having done this too much will hurt my over-all yeild at harvest time... It still has about 2 more months to grow.

[chopstix]

I'm far from an expert, just started learning about growing within the last year, but my guess is that if you still have 2 mos of vegetation, you probably haven't affected yield too much, the plant will just put more energy into the branches that are still there; you might be right that you've "topped" the plant and won't see a single monster cola, but I bet you still get a decent yield if you stop pruning the tops..

Prune the bottom leaves, they won't get the light during flowering and just take nuts away from the better parts of the plant, you probably know this..

[Gimpy]

I'd take it easy on them, It sounds like they've already had a hard time. It sounds like you are trading good bud later for some poor shake now. I think alot of the advice about pruning comes from indoor gardeners whose vertical space is limited and a major concern, some of it doesn't apply well to outdoors. I've always sorta been against pruning except to remove diseased leaves, etc.

As for hermaphrodites, yes, stress can induce it but only in plants predisposed to it.

It's too bad the other plant died, hopefully the remaining one does better.

[Mustelid]

I agree with chopstix. You have until the September 21st until the autumnal equinox, when nature goes into 12/12. A little topping will make a bushier plant and higher yield. Un-topped, with a full growing season, cannabis sometimes gets 30 feet tall!

The fact that the vegetating plant does anything for you is a sign that you are growing some very extraordinarily potent genetics!

Don't pick at the plant at all after mid-September, after then, you'll start hurting overall yield.

[Dan K]

If you are having a problem with mites, i would skip the neem and go directly to Floramite or Avid.