Is "junky" a social role?

[The Paregoric Man]

I've always been fascinated by the constellations of behavior that surround drug addiction, some I've been puzzled by because they seem almost universal. I'm not talking about physical dependence here, I know thats real. I'm talking about the behavior and culture thats become associated stereotypically with drug addiction.

See in the USA the majority of stereotypical "junkies" are addicted to heroin, its a potent opiate and its not hard to imagine how that addiction could drive you to desperation that could account for some of the stereotypes but not all. Here is where things get interesting.

I've talked to people who lived in countries where the only opiate was codeine, even cancer patients were only given codeine. They claimed they had the stereotype junkies like the USA they were just codeine junkies. I've also talked to people who lived in the soviet union during the cold war and the only opiate they could get was pod tea, again they claimed they had movie style pod tea junkies.

I live in a country now with no heroin, again there are movie style junkies that are "addicted" to cocaine and marijuana. They live similar lives as heroin street junkies in the USA.

Is junky just another societal role people fulfill? Is it a reaction against an oppressive society, creating a role that exists outside said society? Because it seems most people think the drug is the centerpiece, I almost think the drug is incidental and a complex mix of social expectations and personality is whats really the centerpiece.
Because it seems even non-physically addictive drugs can fulfill the drug role.

My uncle in law is one such addict, never had a job or any adult responsibilities depsite being in his mid 40s. Will compulsively steal from family, was absent for his childrens birthdays and all that. And he has never touched an opiate, only cocaine and mainly marijuana. People in the USA would laugh at the suggestion he couldn't have a functional life and use coke and weed but here its seen as normal, hes a junky afterall.:confused:

Thoughts?

[supa325]

"Junkie" was a term given to people addicted to heroin when it first became illegal because people who were addicted to it, would go to junk yards and grab whatever they could, like scrap metal, which could be sold on a open market. Still happens today, just ask any electrician.

But, anything thats addictive and not sold legally, over the counter, will make the hardest addicted to do whatever it takes to get the substance they 'need'. Imagine a smoker who goes through four packs a day when they make cigarettes illegal. Either they'll quit or start growing their own tobacco, or start hitting up the corners for cigarettes; and doing whatever it takes to pay for them.

Sad, but thats commodities for you.

[EleusisII]

Reminds me of a report I once read.
Biologists were studying a group of monkeys, who figured out how to brew booze!
When it was the rainy season, the chimps would gather rotting fruit, and put it in natural crevices. After a rainfall, they'd wait a week and presto: Partytime!
The interesting thing (Well besides the obvious! And the fact that they'd take their drinking real fucking seriously, would try to skip the line when the hooch was served up, and get in fights over it. When one of the biologists got too close, and the monkeys thought he was going to steal their booze, the whole fucking group furiously attacked him!) was that they reacted just like people. Some monkeys were happy drunks, others got in fights, and a small percentage of the group, ten percent or so, would become alcoholics. So they responded to alcohol pretty much like humans.
So there's probably biological reasons why people turn into alcoholics or junkies everywhere. It's in our bodychemistry, in our DNA...

[EleusisII]

WHoops, double post!

[at&t]

Good post, Paregoricman..! and a good question, I think.......... I guess you have a good perspective on a different... place/culture.

I guess that over there where (Some (pg/etc)) specific opiates are (quasi-)legal, there are a few folks like yourself discretely maintaining without trouble, but at the same time you have others who... as you described it-- seem to fill the "'social role' of being a junky" without even having any junk (!!)

I'm afraid that don't know anything about that, but... it would be an interesting topic for folks with experience with "'underground' 'social roles,'" drugs, and so on in various other cultures........

The other thing-- Hey, Eleusis... thats crazy stuff man.. You wouldn't happen to have a link to anything about that with the monkeys and their moonshine operation? Thats pretty interesting.. Thats all...

Take it easy y'all, at&t

[Saint]

The other thing-- Hey, Eleusis... thats crazy stuff man.. You wouldn't happen to have a link to anything about that with the monkeys and their moonshine operation? Thats pretty interesting.. Thats all...

Take it easy y'all, at&t

Some even have an Happy Hour: http://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-001686.php

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/3291518/Quest-for-alcohol-gene-sets-monkeys-on-binge.html

[dharma bum]

I think the attraction for being a junky is a rejection of societal norms they find wrond, degrading, false, whatever. It's standing up for your individual rights in an often misguided way.

It is though a label society gives and it's relative to that society. Like your 12 mg a day morphine habit I remember from another thread. In your culture it may be seriously taboo and a type of extreme behaviour. In American drug culture 12 mg a day is nothing. Most of us would be jealous we couldn't maintaIN on such a small amount.

I think society needs people to look at and say," Well at least I'm not a junky." It makes them feel better about their shitty lives to have a "boogeyman" to look at. Maybe we need those roles of junky and outlaw and criminal, etc.

I know this. If I quit opiates today that doesn't mean I'm still not me. I would still be involved in some form of crime. I don't mean violence either. Just what cops would consider illegal. If I quit opiates today I'm not gonna be a spiritual superhero just made out of white light.

[lotus]

i agree with what's already been written here. if it wasn't illegal, it wouldn't be this way.

all we have to do is look at what happen'd when booze became illegal......i think it's a much more immediately drastic situation because by that point it'd been a few decades since everything else had become a non-option........taking that last thing away - don't fukin think so. also, booze is just - i dunno...you give people an unlimited option of mind altering chemicals, booze, for most, is the last thing they're going to have a problem with.

my family is full of drunks - it's takes a long time, and many years of hard work to become one.....and, at least 5-10 years to get real dt's, 15-20 to get the ddt's. obviously you drink every day for a year, it's going to be uncomfortable stopping - but you're not going to get the severe withdrawal like dear ol' gramps had - strap'd to his bed with leather belts because he was shaking so bad, screaming and yelling bears and wolves were in the room trying to tear at him, siezing uncontrollably, going in and out of conciousness........all way back when dr's made housecalls, would check on him daily, and gave my grandma giant bottles of valium, librium, some type of barb.....and a fourth thing.......

heroin, however, you keep someone loaded daily for two weeks or two months - not only do they get the full effect of kicking, they're also forever changed. i don't believe chinese hate was the reason opiates became illegal.

there will always be some sort of sub-culture around a thing. doesn't matter if it's music, art, engineering or dope - just, illegal poses a whole whack of shit that will totally destroys a persons life. what bothers me most about it, is societys total lack of respect, compassion, understanding and empathy - the fact we are the last thing it's still acceptable to degrade and shit on with no repercussions - the fact the medical community is the worst for this...... yeah, stereo-types exist for a reason, but those reasons exist for a reason.

[Duckfeet]

This is a really good answer, for me, as that's kind of how I see it...I'll admit, I had a rather romanticized view of heroin addiction: I was in another country, but was heavily influenced by the Beats, u know, Jack Kerouac, and in Vietnam, there was this whole, kind of counter cultural mimicking of what was going on in the U.S., where the whole hippy/anti-war thing was going full blast. This was in later years of war, when we no longer looked like we could win it, and the youth in this country were really rocking everything...as soldiers, we just wanted *out* and we would part our hair in the middle and wear shades all and beads whenever we could, trying to be "hippys" in a war zone...it's hilarious and kind of sad, in hindsight, as now I see us as just kids, wanting to be like the cool kids back home...

But anyway, "junky" back then, meant what came out of the big NE cities, New York particularly, and the junky was a sort of "figure", and we all had read "junky" and everybody seemed to know some older addict who had come back to the war, just to get dope, etc...

And I remember exactly what I kind of thought, which was that heroin was deadly, not to be touched, avoid at all costs, *serious* "narcotics" etc...so "junky" to me, probably had the same kind of dangerous appeal that had gotten me to Vietnam in the first place: I was tired of feeling like just another middle class California white kid, and wanted to be part of "something" different...and of course, at that age, everything was very, "romantic", I guess is the right word...and so when I started smoking heroin, it was because I wanted to be one of *those* guys, not the giggly pothead eat-pizza, guys, but one of the tragic times square jailhouse junkies I would read about...I even took a leave from Vietnam, and went across the world to Tangier, rather than back to USA...I was young enough to think I'd bump into Burroughs in the Arab Quarter...and I ended up smoking Kief in some little cafe' just like in the movies...but never met him :)

I got my wish, tho, to be "one of those guys"...


I think the attraction for being a junky is a rejection of societal norms they find wrond, degrading, false, whatever. It's standing up for your individual rights in an often misguided way.

It is though a label society gives and it's relative to that society. Like your 12 mg a day morphine habit I remember from another thread. In your culture it may be seriously taboo and a type of extreme behaviour. In American drug culture 12 mg a day is nothing. Most of us would be jealous we couldn't maintaIN on such a small amount.

I think society needs people to look at and say," Well at least I'm not a junky." It makes them feel better about their shitty lives to have a "boogeyman" to look at. Maybe we need those roles of junky and outlaw and criminal, etc.

I know this. If I quit opiates today that doesn't mean I'm still not me. I would still be involved in some form of crime. I don't mean violence either. Just what cops would consider illegal. If I quit opiates today I'm not gonna be a spiritual superhero just made out of white light.

[Saint]

Good posts DF (and Dharma and Lotus too btw). I remember that - even before I ever touched dope - I was already fascinated by it. I read every article I could find, read Junkie, read Christiane F's 'Children from Bahnhoff Zoo' etc. etc.

We used to have those heroin hookers walking in the main street around the corner of my house back in the 70'ties and my mum always warned me to wear a scarf, glasses and no sexy skirts, so that I wouldn't be *looked at* by the men driving by.
But then came the punk-era and I was sort of unhappy, overwhelmed with feelings of anger and sadness and raging hormones at 14. And all drugs sounded more and more appealing to me.

So I tried speed and I remember walking on the street one night, speedy like hell, and overhearing an elder couple whispering ''See that? That's one of them under-aged junky hookers'' and in an odd way I felt sort of 'proud' that they saw me like that. I know it sounds utterly ridiculous - and it is - but that's how I saw things at the time I guess.

I still hadn't touched heroin but that was about to change soon. I definitely 'romanticised' H.. a lot. I even went looking for it everywhere. I still have my diaries from back then. When I re-read them now I see an adolescent that didn't fit in the 'normal' world and wanted to be part of an underground scene, which I did.
And ofcourse very soon - way too soon - it wasn't all that ''romantic'' anymore.. I was on the run, had big debts while still too young to work and things got bad, really bad..

But somehow I doubt if I'd do things differently if I could do it all over again.
For me it was a need to be 'different' then most people my age, or that's how it started anyway. Nowadays I try very hard to change people's perception of 'junkies'. I often try to explain to doctors/social workers/family/friends etc.. that a junky isn't necessarily equal to a low life piece of shit. That even junkies lead different lifes.. That some actually function very well in society, that they study, work etc. That they aren't bad people per se..

Sometimes I think that many H/opiate-users have *over-sensitive personalities*. They simply ''feel too much'' so to speak and it hinders them in leading a normal life. By using dope they get balanced again. but that's just one of my simple theories..
Ah what the fuck, I'm sort of rambling I guess..

[dharma bum]

Ramble on Saint, ramble on!!

True on some addicts feel the world too much and it's too painful but at the same time I think part of me used to like withdrawal and the pain I created for myself. It was kinda my pentance(sp) for feeling so damned good. I would vomit at the thought or mention of that while in w/d and say you were crazy but still, part of me must have gotten something out of the pain or I wouldn't have kept doing it over and over again, ya know?

Saint:::: They simply ''feel too much'' so to speak and it hinders them in leading a normal life. By using dope they get balanced again. but that's just one of my simple theories.." -----kinda the opposite of the truth we were taught.

This is were I think opiate therapy for endorphin deficiency syndrome could be a life saver/life enhancer. Call it EDS, depression----what the hell ever, if a small dose of opiates improves a human being's poor, miserable life then what does it hurt?

I remember reading the Cobaine biography " Heavier than Heaven" and Kurt was describing to a friend about when he quit heroin, his stomach was so painful and messed up, he couldn't function anyway. So, he said, if he was gonna feel strung out 24/7 with no sleep, he was gonna go back to H....

Now I'm the one rambling.

[duck]

Reminds me of a report I once read.
Biologists were studying a group of monkeys, who figured out how to brew booze!
When it was the rainy season, the chimps would gather rotting fruit, and put it in natural crevices. After a rainfall, they'd wait a week and presto: Partytime!
The interesting thing (Well besides the obvious! And the fact that they'd take their drinking real fucking seriously, would try to skip the line when the hooch was served up, and get in fights over it. When one of the biologists got too close, and the monkeys thought he was going to steal their booze, the whole fucking group furiously attacked him!) was that they reacted just like people. Some monkeys were happy drunks, others got in fights, and a small percentage of the group, ten percent or so, would become alcoholics. So they responded to alcohol pretty much like humans.
So there's probably biological reasons why people turn into alcoholics or junkies everywhere. It's in our bodychemistry, in our DNA...

I'd definitely be the happy drunk monkey. I'd walk around with an air of elitism, managing to get drunk everyday and still keep my shit together, bananas ripe and the bills paid on time. I'd still go to the country club, looking at all the other stupid drunk monkeys as if they're so retarded that they suck at being a drunk. I'd read Cigar Aficionado and have a personalized license plate on my Corvette that said "MnkyBiz"

[pain-pateint]

This a fantastic thread --- from crazy, drunken, island monkeys to the deep issues such as what is junky and why are they here.......This is why I love it here!;)

[pain-pateint]

They have studied mice in situations where some on them are in a cage that's a real pleasant mouse environment -- plenty of wheels to run on, things to scratch up, plenty of food and water, etc., like a mouse Club Med -- while other mice were in a cage that was a terrible environment for mice -- too small, a zip code that's associated with poverty, just enough to eat and drink, and the like -- and then the researchers introduced a tube through which the mice could ingest morphine.

The mice in the pleasant environment used little to no morhine, while almost all of those in the nasty environment became dependent on morphine.

This leads me to believe that suffering is somehow related to opiate addiction, whatever the cause of the distress, be it EDS, unrelieved pain, anxiety, etc. If our society is really committed to reducing drug abuse and addiction, maybe they should think about relieving unnecessary suffering, and offering comfort to those with sufering that can't be relieved? I know that's radical thought and all:rolleyes:.

THoughts?

[duck]

Once again, I would be the mouse with the nice living environment but still unable to be happy so I'd use the morphine too.


But really, that's a very, very interesting study PP (hehe sorry). It's hard to start extending the study's findings to people though, there are just too many areas for us to fall into the trap of contriving connections.

[Narkotikon]

I think "junky" is a social role created by people, albeit unintentionally. Whenever you make something illegal, like drugs, or alcohol, or cigs, or whatever, that has such a powerful hold on people, they're going to break the law in order to get it, whether that be stealing to pay for it, or just breaking the law by simply possessing it. I think it's absurd for the government to think that just because something's illegal that it will prevent people from getting it. The drug war will never end because the power of addiction and the psychological and physiological need for illegal drugs will always trump legality. I would like to think that the politicians and lawmakers of the early 20th century would have never made drugs illegal if they could have foreseen what it would have created in the future, namely a black-market and increased crime and mortality rates.

As for codeine addicts and coke addicts and pot addicts and whatever type of addicts in comparison to heroin addicts and the perceptions of such, I think it depends on the person and their individual circumstances. Do I think codeine is as addictive as heroin or morphine? No, I don't. I think codeine is rather lame and weak. But, that's because I have had access to stronger opiates. If I lived in a country where you could only get codeine, and nothing else, I think it might be different. It's not that I wouldn't take codeine if that's all I could get, but why would I choose to take that when there are other things available? I think it's the desire to get high (psychological) for whatever reason, or well (physiological) once you're physically dependent on opiates. The point I'm trying to make is that if codeine is all you've ever had and could get, I think it can be just as addictive, in that the desire to use for whatever reason is still there. So, I'm talking about the desire, not the drug itself. I don't think codeine is as addictive as heroin or morphine or any other strong opiate, but I do think the desire is as strong, especially if that's all you have ever had.

The same would go for coke or pot or whatever. I think it depends on what your drug of choice is and what you're programmed to like. Some people really really like acid. I've done it a few times when I was younger, but didn't think it was that great. Would I steal from my family or commit a crime to get acid? No. But that's because I don't particularly like it. If a person were to like acid, though, I think it would be easier for them to do whatever they needed to do to get it. I think it depends on what a person likes. I personally can't see myself living on the street and forgoing responsibilities for an acid habit, but that's just me. I can see some people doing it though.

I also think it has to do with your personality / soul / moral agenda. If you've been taught to believe that screwing over other people is wrong, I think it will be somewhat harder for you to do that to get your fix. I'm not saying it won't happen, because it does. I just think it would be harder. I don't believe that drug use automatically makes a person a bad person. I do think, however, that drug use can make a person do bad things in order to get the drug. I think the difference is guilt / your conscience. If you feel guilty after stealing, or whatever, then I think that you've done a bad thing and should make restitution for whatever it is you've done, but I don't think you're a bad person. Now, if you don't have a conscience and you weren't raised with an ethical outlook or whatever you want to call it, I think it would be much much easier for someone to just not care and do whatever they damn well please to get what they want. I call those people bad people. In short, I don't think drugs make people bad, although I think they can make them do bad things or things they would never have done prior to drugs simply because of the need to use, whether that be to get high or to get well. I think you're either a bad person or a good person prior to drug use, and then the drugs can exacerbate that I guess.