Ephedrine sulfate

[resorcinol]

Is basically a dirty speed high. People who say it has no CNS effects are full of it, it's just crappy compared to the desoxy derivatives. It's decent though if you want to avoid appearing too tweaked out from the stronger speed. I'm on 100 mg right now and it definitely lifted the fog of the benzos I have to take every night to sleep bigtime and brought on some slight euphoric and clear feelings.

For reference, l-ephedrine is the isomer with the same alpha carbon chirality as d-amph and d-methamph. This is why IUPAC prefers the S / R system or the + / - system for more consistency for similar molecules. L / D is how a solution of the substance rotates plane polarized light ---- so similar substances can have the same spacial configuration at a chiral center but a different L / D. It's l-ephedrine that has the most CNS activity of any of the -OH substituted meth relatives.

d-pseudoephedrine, l-ephedrine, d-amph, and d-methamph ALL have the same spacial configuration at the alpha carbon, which is what matters for activity. D-pseudo and l-eph are diasteromers - same configuration at the alpha carbon, different at the beta carbon (the position of the -OH)..

Pseudoephedrine sucks compared to ephedrine. If you want a mild stim buzz get BRONKAID or PRIMATENE tablets - both contain ephedrine sulfate and guaifenesin (the latter causes nausea for some people but not for me ... I've taken a ton with DXM and never puked).

Now racemic propylhexedrine on the other hand REALLY gets you tweaked like REALLY ... like adderall or crystal tweaked. So if you want an OTC full on speed high, that's the ticket. I must warn you though... that cotton rod is the most repulsive thing on the planet smell and taste wise. Do an extraction. This is only if you actually want to tweak strongly though... propyl will get you VERY high and it WILL be obvious that you're tweaking. The ephedrine is good if you want a mild enough feeling that you will be able to hide the stimulant buzz.

All you have to do to get bronkaid or primatene is go to any pharmacy and sign their logbook / show ID. Easy, probably great to mix with opiates.

[ryan]

Now racemic propylhexedrine on the other hand REALLY gets you tweaked like REALLY ... like adderall or crystal tweaked. So if you want an OTC full on speed high, that's the ticket. I must warn you though... that cotton rod is the most repulsive thing on the planet smell and taste wise. Do an extraction. This is only if you actually want to tweak strongly though... propyl will get you VERY high and it WILL be obvious that you're tweaking.

I tried this a long time ago (benzedrex) -- the taste was downright obscene...
I never learned of an accurate extraction method..I'm searching for one now
The taste ruined it for me basically, it wouldn't let me enjoy the high :-\

EDIT:

Found a good extraction method that isn't too complicated:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3199784/Kitchen-Improvised-Crank-Propylhexedrine

[bodytec]

Cool man!
I used to find the original MaxAlert to be pleasing.
I always knew it was probly easy as hell to compound these into something really powerful.
Not sure that it is but i'll bet you would know.
They were eph. and guai. too
i think they were 25 mg.eph

[resorcinol]

I'm not sure why so many people think ephedrine is banned in the US. It's just not true. It's in every damn drugstore pretty much (just not on the shelf, but still OTC).

I believe what was banned was the marketing of EPHEDRA, the plant containing ephedrine and pseudoephedrine alkaloids, as a dietary supplement after a bunch of people OD'd on these products. Combining uncertain doses of a stimulant drug (nonstandardized plant concentrates) with vigorous exercise can cause heart problems -- seems like common sense.


I tried this a long time ago (benzedrex) -- the taste was downright obscene...
I never learned of an accurate extraction method..I'm searching for one now
The taste ruined it for me basically, it wouldn't let me enjoy the high :-\

EDIT:

Found a good extraction method that isn't too complicated:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3199784/Kitchen-Improvised-Crank-Propylhexedrine

Here's how you extract the propylhexedrine from benzedrex:
1)Swish cotton in a small beaker filled with a dilute hydrochloric acid solution for 10 minutes. Don't need to stir constantly, but swish it from time to time.

2)Remove and squeeze out the cotton to get all of the liquid - discard the emptied cotton. Pour the propylhexedrine HCl / free HCl / traces of lavender and menthol solution into a separatory funnel.

3)Add a quantity of toluene to the funnel about equal to the amount of PHX HCl solution present. You'll see two layers form, toluene on top. Gently shake for a few minutes.

4)Open the stopcock and let the aqueous (water and propyl HCl) layer, which will be on the bottom, run out into a fresh beaker. Discard the toluene that remains in the funnel.

5)Repeat steps 3 and 4 for another toluene wash if you wish to ensure near complete removal of the nasty lavender oil and menthol crap.

6)Evaporate, in a suitable evaporating dish, the aqueous solution. Any excess HCl that didn't react with the propylhexedrine to form the HCl salt will evaporate too. If you add heat to speed the process, keep the heating gentle ... a hotplate set to a warm but not hot temp would be ideal. Leaving the dish in the sun would also be effective if your neighbors won't wonder about those crystals forming in a dish in your backyard.

7)Scrape the propylhexedrine hydrochloride crystals from the bottom of the dish into a pile. Done.

This can be done on many rods at once (it's actually preferable to scale this up to say 6 rods at once ... more efficient). You'll be left with pretty pure propylhexedrine HCl, which is a white crystalline solid (snortable and smokable).

[resorcinol]

I just realized something. The Primatene brand tablets contain ephedrine HCl 12.5 mg while Bronkaid contains ephedrine sulfate 25 mg. So two Primatene is actually a little bit stronger than one bronkaid (the Cl- ion is lighter than the SO42- ion ... and even though each SO42- binds TWO ephedrine molecules while each Cl- only binds one, the ephedrine HCl is still slightly more % ephedrine by weight because SO42- is so much heavier than Cl-). It's close though... they're both in the 70 to 80 percent ephedrine by mass range.

Look at the molar mass of ephedrine (165 g/mol) and hydrochloric acid (36.5 g/mol) and also sulfuric acid (98.1 g/mol) and yep, I just actually did the math, ephedrine HCl is 78% ephedrine by mass (36.5/165 = 0.22 = 22% HCl; so 78% EPH) . Ephedrine sulfate is 70% ephedrine by mass (98.1/330 = .297 = 29.7% H2SO4 = 70% EPH). EPH HCl is 8% more potent by mass than EPH H2SO4.

So, for example, a dose of 50 mg EPH sulfate is equal to a dose of 54 mg EPH HCl. So it's only a LITTLE more potent per mg.

You can do this math for opioids also to figure out which salt would be better if there is a choice. Freebase alkaloids are of course 100%, but freebase alkaloids are often undesirable for use except for certain drugs when one wants to vaporize the drug.

[ryan]

Good info...also for the extraction I've read to not even bother IVing the benzedrex extract...
It can apparently cause death...:mad:

[resorcinol]

Good info...also for the extraction I've read to not even bother IVing the benzedrex extract...
It can apparently cause death...:mad:

Yep, never IV propylhexedrine (any of its salts). It's just too strong a vasoconstrictor to have so much concentrated near the site of injection and IV use causes more to reach the heart at once too, and can damage the heart.

Edit: Also, fuck I need to sleep. I think I just stooped pretty low ... an ephedrine binge ... I've been buzzed on it since yesterday morning, stayed up all last night hyper as fuck. Ah, the boredom of opioid sobriety .... it fucking SUCKS. Ephedrine isn't that bad though ... especially when mixed with a little d-MPH (don't do this unless you know how much you can handle, don't have hypertension or other heart problems, and can avoid very heavy exercise). EPH also makes benzos a heck of a lot more fun than they are alone!

[alowishus]

Damn it son use your power for light not dark - for fucks sake, er wait no that was wrong, I meant use your powers for darker, yeah, DARKER, DARKER, DARKER

[mikey5string]

It can apparently cause death...:mad:

yeah but does it have a good rush?? im just trying to weigh the pros and cons here...

[resorcinol]

yeah but does it have a good rush?? im just trying to weigh the pros and cons here...

Smoke it in a meth pipe. It vaporizes just like d-methamp HCl does. You might get something resembling an amphetamine rush that way, and it won't kill you like IV could.

[ryan]

yeah but does it have a good rush?? im just trying to weigh the pros and cons here...

Hahaha nice one rofl

[alowishus]

It can apparently cause death...:mad:

That's just for pussies, fuck you can't take a little death???
I mean what are you a man or a mouse?

[mikey5string]

Smoke it in a meth pipe. It vaporizes just like d-methamp HCl does. You might get something resembling an amphetamine rush that way, and it won't kill you like IV could.

i was just kidding res. my stim days are behind me for the most part. i do enjoy an adderall here and there when theyre around but i enjoy my sleep nowadays :)

[resorcinol]

i was just kidding res. my stim days are behind me for the most part. i do enjoy an adderall here and there when theyre around but i enjoy my sleep nowadays :)

I figured you might be kidding ... at least hoped you were. It must be all the damn ephedrine I've been munching down causing me to doubt whether obvious sarcasm is obvious sarcasm :o

Seriously though for other folks, you can smoke PHX HCl ... if you must take this by a fast hitting route do that over IV. IV is TOO DANGEROUS with this stimulant.

[resorcinol]

Just realized I switched them around. 50 mg ephedrine HCl = 54 mg ephedrine sulfate. Got it backwards in my post.

[resorcinol]

Someone went on an ephedrine binge again. I actually LIKE this stuff to a degree it seems.

Over the course of two days I took 700 mg of ephedrine :eek:

Somehow I still managed to sleep for two hrs at night though (thanks zolpidem!).

I took my pulse and bp several times and neither were disturbingly high at any point ... the 700 mg was spaced out over two days (25 to 75 mg every couple hours), not all at once (that all at once would probably cause a heart attack).

I compared to the effects of dosing pseudo and can confirm what I said earlier ... PSE sucks compared to ephedrine. PSE has NO euphoria and very little energy boost even at 300 mg. Ephedrine on the other hand gives you HUGE amounts of energy and mild euphoria at even just 75 mg. Go for the ephedrine.

It works for its intended purpose too ... breathing is SO much easier on eph (don't have asthma but cigs kinda fuck with breathing).

[resorcinol]

A mod can merge ... can't edit my last post.

Last pill was taken about an hour ago ... binge over. Total consumption: 900 mg ephedrine. My body's gonna be exhausted tomorrow after all the cleaning and crap I got done.

[Chipper]

Please don't keep on taking them regularly. I used to take lower daily doses (many years ago when freely available as a diet-aid - still had to sign for it back then) for a week at a time and it would always lead to shortness of temper and dysphoria.

I once even IV'ed some and found it most unpleasant -- too much stimulation with too many side effects, then you're craving benzos, dope, alcohol even, anything to make you feel "normal".

I know you did say "binge over" but I just wanted to back you up there ... 900mg is excessive! It's probably safer to use less methamphetamine (less body load), comparatively. On the other hand, it's more addictive and has a bad reputation but still ...

[resorcinol]

Yeah 900 mg over two days was a bit excessive. I felt WIPED OUT today. I think I'm wrong about people not being able to tell if you're on ephedrine too ... I was hanging out with my friend during day two of the binge and she said out of the blue "are you on uppers or something?" -- I didn't think I was acting all that different but apparently according to her I was talking non-stop and grinding my teeth.

No meth around here (that I know of) in the northeast. I could get adderall, but I don't wanna deal with the hassle of having to possibly wait a day to get hooked up ... or having to pay $5 for 20 mg xr if that's all that's available when the price for the 30 mg ones is IDENTICAL when they're around - the adderall heads around here don't seem to get pricing by drug quantity (and I never know when I could get a drug test sprung on me by the doc or family -- ephedrine can be explained away and might not even show up ... gc/ms would make adderall obvious).

Speaking of adderall, I've never had the IR pills, ever. XR is ALL that is available (it's available in massive quantities though, but usually the 20 mg caps, the 30 mg ones are uncommon). I assume though that the times I've had it and crushed the hell out of the beads to a fine dust made it pretty IR.

[dugwylor]

Figured I'd throw out -- there are a lot of people doing very basic extractions on these inhalers with just lemon juice. Hardly efficient, but far easier as well. The basic idea is: soak in lemon juice for a few hours, squeeze out the cotton, drink the lemon juice. Some people also filter it (wet filter first) to remove the nasty menthol oils, then throw it in the microwave and wind up w/ a gel-like substance after a bit. The gel can then be capped and swallowed. This might encourage people to give this a shot.

But the more professional extraction doesn't sound too bad... will maybe give it a shot. Also, I've been looking for ephedrine for a long time now, so thanks for posting this. I thought surely they only sold the inferior pseudoeph OTC. Ephedra also still isn't banned in the US; there's just been a call for "reputable sellers" to discontinue sale. Plenty of sites still sell it online, though the market's not really there for it. Ephedra contains pseudoephrine and ephedrine, though, so obviously the straight ephedrine is superior. A great find. Thanks again... been looking for a decent stim superior to caffeine I can use in moderation. Propylhexedrine unfortunately gives me raging headaches.

[resorcinol]

Figured I'd throw out -- there are a lot of people doing very basic extractions on these inhalers with just lemon juice. Hardly efficient, but far easier as well. The basic idea is: soak in lemon juice for a few hours, squeeze out the cotton, drink the lemon juice. Some people also filter it (wet filter first) to remove the nasty menthol oils, then throw it in the microwave and wind up w/ a gel-like substance after a bit. The gel can then be capped and swallowed. This might encourage people to give this a shot.

But the more professional extraction doesn't sound too bad... will maybe give it a shot. Also, I've been looking for ephedrine for a long time now, so thanks for posting this. I thought surely they only sold the inferior pseudoeph OTC. Ephedra also still isn't banned in the US; there's just been a call for "reputable sellers" to discontinue sale. Plenty of sites still sell it online, though the market's not really there for it. Ephedra contains pseudoephrine and ephedrine, though, so obviously the straight ephedrine is superior. A great find. Thanks again... been looking for a decent stim superior to caffeine I can use in moderation. Propylhexedrine unfortunately gives me raging headaches.

The method for propylhexedrine extraction I posted is indeed easy. You don't have to be a chem buff to do a great job .... it's much simpler than extracting an alkaloid from plant material (like DMT from mimosa hostilis bark) since there are only two undesirable substances (menthol and lavender oil ... so actually more than two since lavender oil consists of more than one organic compound, but it's still nothing compared to any plant matter). This fact makes the extraction very easy; there won't be emulsion issues and there's no need to do a shitload of defatting shakes with a nonpolar solvent while the aqueous solution is acidic. Just one or two "defatting" steps get rid of the lavender and menthol completely (the product has no odor of the benzedrex cotton ... and that's a massive improvement since menthol + lavender + freebase PHX = worst thing I've ever smelled ... it's like fishy flowers and cough medicine smell; it's totally puke-worthy). The fact that the PHX freebase is salted in this extraction to give PHX HCl kills the fish smell (PHX freebase, d-methamp freebase, d-amp freebase, and many other simple amines smell fishy) and the toluene washes pull the menthol and lavender out of the aqueous solution but leave the propylhexedrine since propylhexedrine is an organic base and is much more strongly attracted to the acidic, proton laden, weak HCl solution than to the toluene. It's kinda an A/B extraction except simplified ... there's no need for a basification step to do this, it's just acidify and remove menthol and lavender with toluene, then done. I've done it several times -- it works well and doesn't seem to waste much PHX at all, it's easy, and it doesn't take long (the longest part is waiting for the evaporation at the end to get the crystals of PHX HCl).

I'm glad too that OTC ephedrine is still available albeit limited to 9g per month (they track it). That's fine as taking enough ephedrine to exceed that is extremely unhealthy and probably a guaranteed ticket to heart problems after awhile. I wouldn't exceed 150 mg ephedrine in a day to keep things safe. 150 mg is safe to take daily for people without cardiovascular diseases ... that's actually the recommended max dose of bronkaid daily for its intended use as an asthma medication and that will be plenty stimulating.

Ephedrine tolerance does build VERY rapidly though .... I found that out pretty quickly and stopped taking it after binging on and off for a little bit. Stopping it after a binge is a bitch too -- you feel totally wiped out, unfocused, lethargic, and hungry -- just like after a binge on more potent amphet-like stims but not as bad most likely (i've never binged on amphetamines long enough to really know how bad it can be, but I'd imagine it's pretty awful). Just beware of tolerance. It's probably best to use ephedrine on a prn basis only to retain efficacy. It's actually mildly euphoric at 50 mg with no tolerance (although it's obviously not like harder speed, it's much more subtle), but that euphoria will vanish within DAYS of using it consecutively due to very rapid tolerance buildup. It will certainly help one get through a rough day (be it work or school/studying) pretty effectively ... don't expect adderall-level superhuman performance; ephedrine isn't a good enough crosser of the BBB to do that, but it will be MUCH MUCH more effective than caffeine could EVER approach. It is addictive in a speed-like way too, just less so than actual speed --- I've still heard of people getting massive EPH habits though and having a very hard time quitting (just google search 'ephedrine addiction' to see some stories of people hooked on 500 mg a day and unable to stop --- yes, a WHOLE BOX of bronkaid a day -- there are also stories of people who got hooked on EPH and switched to MPH, amphet, or methamphet when tolerance rendered EPH "not enough" to keep going). Just keep in mind that ephedrine can be habit forming and IS somewhat recreational despite what some may say.

Benzedrex never gave me headaches, but it gave me GI issues and a comedown from hell. I don't use it anymore. I mostly swore off stims as I seem to regret using them on each occasion that I've taken a rec dose. The therapeutic dose I take daily of an Rx stim (methylphenidate) is plenty fine for improving my focus and energy levels. I wish I had the kind of self control for opioids that I do with stimulants ... they're the CIIs that I can have and not use in a week no problem. I guess it comes down to what your "drug of choice" is ... some folks hate opioids, some like 'em but can chip without issue .... and at the same time some of those folks can't control themselves with uppers. I think most addicts tend to only have serious self-control issues with one or two drug classes and that true polydrug fiends (active addiction to uppers, downers, and dissociatives at the same time for example) are rarer in the drug community.

[dugwylor]

After I read over the extraction protocol it did seem pretty straightforward, and I may give it a shot. But it's still nothing so easy that it can be repeated in a sentence or two -- those seem to be the only preps that really survive and get out to the masses... as in, "cut it up, stick it in some lemon juice, swish it around and then chug." That's the level that most people are looking for. Still, that just keeps you from swallowing the cotton and doesn't get rid of the oils, which are quite nasty. I've almost grown accustomed to them, and if you leave a citric acid extraction to evaporate a bit, the oils seem to evap pretty rapidly as well.

But the other issue is that your protocol might be difficult even for the diligent homebrewer. I work in a bio lab, but just as a grunt and know very little about the work except how to make food for microorganisms and buffers for scientists. But it means that I can get my hands on both the hydrochloric acid and the toluene quite easily. Sadly, had to look up stopcock, though... and the bottom line is that however easy this is in a lab, few people have access to a lab. What would it take to turn this protocol from "easy with a lab" into "easy as a homebrew?"

I'm assuming citric acid could still do the trick in the place of the hydrochloric, though ideally not as lemon juice but just the powdered variety (sour salt from kosher section, or just sold as citric acid in an indian food store) mixed in a bit of water. Or just white vinegar -- is that concentrated enough? Just thinking the easier to access, the more likely it is that people'll do it. If these will work, how much would be needed? Could work it out to household measuring devices, such as the teaspoon, presuming nobody has pipets, graduated cylinders or scales (well, a lot of people here might have scales, haha...).

Instead of a beaker we'd be looking at an empty, clean jar I'm sure. What's a separatory funnel, and what could be rigged instead of it?

Toluene ... can you pick this up at the hardware store in a pure enough form? Is there anything that could be used in its place? And on step 4, we open the stopcock on the separatory funnel. Ah, I see how this works, OK. Can someone just use an eye dropper to suck off the top layer of toluene? Will that leave too much behind? Will it evaporate off cleanly? I do remember that just wetting a coffee filter and pouring the solution through there seems to do the job to a decent extent -- for getting rid of most of the oils -- surprisingly. If getting all of them out isn't a high priority, maybe the toluene can be skipped?

Suitable evap dish: what would be the equivalent in the home? Glass baking dish? Could it be put in the oven on a low temp to speed things up? Also, how long should this take?


I know, a lot of questions; sorry for that. I've just been looking for a more worthwhile approach to getting propylhexedrine and this is as close as I've seen, particularly with a protocol that requires very little in terms of materials and knowledge... just want to try to knock it down to total layman level, where it could then be used by 50% of the population rather than the .5% or so that'd have access to the very few things you're requiring. Not, of course, to create a better protocol... but just a less demanding one. A good example is that you can make a pretty good cocaine freebase with a bit of knowledge, but once people found out that you can just throw baking soda in a pan with some coke, it was really able to get going...


Wow, lot of blathering. You might be able to see that I bought some ephedrine. MUCH better than pseudoeph or ephedra. I can even feel 25mg (rarely use stims)... and it's just enough to let my mind stay concentrated, especially when already on opiates. I've got a ton of reading to do and was trying to keep myself from going on the nod just a bit ago but now I'm ready to tackle it. Thanks again. I have no idea how I went so long without figuring out they sell this OTC. Oh, and no headache or feeling of intense skull pressure like with PHX. Fucking grrreat!

[resorcinol]

It's pretty easy to improvise with non lab equipment. The sep funnel is just easier to use than any improvised tool; an improvised tool though could be as simple as a container from which the toluene is poured off instead or perhaps a bag which is snipped to allow the water and PHX HCl solution to run out.

For evap, tons of dishes would be perfectly fine. If using no heat and just time, almost any dish is fine, glass dishes are better b/c it's easier to see the crystals. If heat is being used just make sure the glass is borosilicate so it resists shatter due to temperature changes (like Pyrex).

And any acid will do so long as it's not toxic in itself (like oxalic acid would be no good). However, acids like citric acid need a calculation for how much is needed to protonate all of the PHX if you don't want excess unreacted citric acid in your product ... unlike HCl, excess of citric acid will NOT evaporate along with the water. HCl will because hydrogen chloride is a gas when not dissolved in water and will escape away when the water does. I don't recommend sulfuric acid because excess of H2SO4 won't evaporate and it's a very strong mineral acid ... and sulfate salts of amphetamine like drugs are generally not preferred (except in countries where street AMPHETAMINE [not METHamphetamine] is the form of "speed" available, like in the UK ... I think that is amphetamine sulfate; I remember reading that something about amphetamine HCl makes it undesirable [perhaps hygroscopic?] where with methamp and PHX too IME the HCl salt is quite ideal). HCl is easy to get even for an average person too -- it's just usually called muriatic acid for some reason in hardware stores; it's one of those outdated names that stuck for some purposes.