daily use but no physical wd'S

[Fentx12]

ok, first off, im new here and I apologize if this isnt the appropriate place for this thread. Anyway, just to give a little background, I am a CP patient on fentanyl 50 mcg patches since November 08. I also have a daily oxycodone habit of 160 mg's, which I ahve been maintaining for about 3 years now. I don't kno if its a gift from god or what, but I would honestly say that I do not ever get sick. The only thing that ever happens is that i get depressed and cant sleep. Sometime's i just wonder why im not sick with withdrawals? I know people that have smaller habits than me, that actually get sick. Does anyone know how this works? Do some poeple just not get addicted like others? Thankyou for reading any replys are appreciated

[God_Albino]

how long have you gone without opiates? it took me maybe 48 hours to get good and siiiick cold turkeyin from the 75's and oxy/dilaudid.

edit misread how long you were on opes

[Fentx12]

well i started doin daily oxy when i was 19. got on fent 6 months ago. i have gone several days, even a week before. all that ever happens is that i cant sleep and im depressed. I definitely fiend for it tho, just dont get sick.

[hovadagod]

Do you take tramadol or imodium when you kick?

[wisegal]

im interested to read the replies to this. I think that it is totally possible. I used to think the same about myself, i could use everyday for a month or so and not get sick when going CT. Didnt last long till I had a horrible kick my first time. I didnt know much about w/d symptoms and thought i was horribly sick. A little lookin around online let me know i was an addict!

[Papa Verine]

Well I'm baffled... Are you still wearing a patch and running out of Oxycodone? Is that what you mean? Or do you mean you go completely opioid free and don't get withdrawals?

[EleusisII]

Think it's def. possible. Either that you don't experience WDs until your endorphine balance reaches some kind of tipping point, or that some people are just lucky.
I don't get particularily hard WDs. No puking or chills or serious bodyaches.

[Papa Verine]

There's a progression involved with withdrawal effects. When I first started to suffer I could and would actually sleep for hours and hours during opiate withdrawals. I never suffered from insomnia, in fact quite the opposite. Not any more... and the vomiting thing, I've seen a friend of mine go from no recognizable W/D's to severe vommitting as soon as she runs out of dope, over the past couple years.

I believe withdrawals get worse and symptoms change with time, and as your addiction progresses. Everybody here can describe different withdrawal symptoms because we're all at different stages of the opiate game/addiction.

So, I'm confused about the OP's experience, and I'm wondering if she is running out of Oxy but still wearing a Fent patch, wondering where the Oxy withdrawals are. Because that's totally different then going completely opiate/opioid free. It would explain the mild withdrawal effect from cutting down, not going completely CT.

[SUBoxZERO]

hmmmm sounds like mind over matter. If you dont think you are withdrawaling then you wont feel the effects. Do you do anything to keep yourself in shape, exercise, eat healthy etc. When I'm not goin on drug binges I usually keep myself pretty healthy. I exercise and eat fairly healthy food. When I stop using opiates I still go through withdrawals, but its nothing too bad. Just kinda the same stuff you described. I also get really lethargic, but after 4-7 days I feel much better. I never really get to the point where Im dry heaving and shittin liquids.

[lib.sOCialist]

There's a progression involved with withdrawal effects. When I first started to suffer I could and would actually sleep for hours and hours during opiate withdrawals. I never suffered from insomnia, in fact quite the opposite. Not any more... and the vomiting thing, I've seen a friend of mine go from no recognizable W/D's to severe vommitting as soon as she runs out of dope, over the past couple years.

I believe withdrawals get worse and symptoms change with time, and as your addiction progresses. Everybody here can describe different withdrawal symptoms because we're all at different stages of the opiate game/addiction.

So, I'm confused about the OP's experience, and I'm wondering if she is running out of Oxy but still wearing a Fent patch, wondering where the Oxy withdrawals are. Because that's totally different then going completely opiate/opioid free. It would explain the mild withdrawal effect from cutting down, not going completely CT.

QFT, W/D's have changed for me every time ive had them.

[ryan]

There's a progression involved with withdrawal effects.
<snip>
I believe withdrawals get worse and symptoms change with time, and as your addiction progresses. Everybody here can describe different withdrawal symptoms because we're all at different stages of the opiate game/addiction.
</snip>


Couldn't have said it better myself. Hate to point out yet ANOTHER burroughs reference, but he talks about this "progressive withdrawal" process in Junky. That's a good way to describe it too PapaV (progressive).

[roxi*stardust]

hmmmm sounds like mind over matter. If you dont think you are withdrawaling then you wont feel the effects. Do you do anything to keep yourself in shape, exercise, eat healthy etc. When I'm not goin on drug binges I usually keep myself pretty healthy. I exercise and eat fairly healthy food. When I stop using opiates I still go through withdrawals, but its nothing too bad. Just kinda the same stuff you described. I also get really lethargic, but after 4-7 days I feel much better. I never really get to the point where Im dry heaving and shittin liquids.


Mind over matter exists only with the mental part of opiate withdrawal. Opiates cause the body to become physically dependent. It's a matter of fact. Addiction does not always occur with long term opiate use but physical dependence does, that.ls is the nature of the type of drug. It is also important to realize their IS a difference between addiction and physical dependence.

Like papa said withdrawal symptoms appear to be proporiate to the length or use and amount of times you kick.

[Fentx12]

I was talking about going from wearing a fent patch and doing oxy and then stopping cold turkey.

[digby]

I wonder if the body can develop the ability to store opiates the same as it stores proteins, fats and some chemicals? That would certainly account for lack of WDs, as it would be a case of the body learning from repeated experience what it needs to do to maintain proper functioning, which in this case would be storing chemicals and allowing for a gradual taper even though its supply was cut off cold turkey.

Certainly an interesting subject.

[hovadagod]

I think we should do experiments on you and use you to come up with some kind of opiate WD cure.

[NOLA]

There's a progression involved with withdrawal effects. When I first started to suffer I could and would actually sleep for hours and hours during opiate withdrawals. I never suffered from insomnia, in fact quite the opposite. Not any more... and the vomiting thing, I've seen a friend of mine go from no recognizable W/D's to severe vommitting as soon as she runs out of dope, over the past couple years.

I believe withdrawals get worse and symptoms change with time, and as your addiction progresses. Everybody here can describe different withdrawal symptoms because we're all at different stages of the opiate game/addiction.

So, I'm confused about the OP's experience, and I'm wondering if she is running out of Oxy but still wearing a Fent patch, wondering where the Oxy withdrawals are. Because that's totally different then going completely opiate/opioid free. It would explain the mild withdrawal effect from cutting down, not going completely CT.

I'm sorry to say that this is exactly true.

I remember thinking that everyone else around me was full of shit, that they were just exaggerating or whatever.

Then finally, I realized that they were just building up.. And ever since then, they've just gotten progressively worse.

[Fentx12]

haha a guinea pig?

[Dolomiti]

That's really odd! You've got a unique physiology.
When you go +5 days without ANY opiates, what is your tolerance like when you restart? Is it the same tolerance from the first restarting dose as it was before? Or does it take a few days to jump back up to where it was?

[Duckfeet]

Yeah: I'm with PapaV on this one...we're all exceptions until we aren't...

[Patches]

My early years of opiate use were during the 80's,when getting scripts was not like today.....id go around a little,Id find a cool doc and play him out for 3-4 months untill someone smelled a rat and said 'no more'........it was all cool,around 02 or so ,here in Florida,the 'pain' Drs started opening up here and there,so's I started with 240 7.5 Hydro's back then,which suited me fine for a month,fast forward to today,usually takes me 2 75 Fents and about 10 dillies to have a good day.......untill halfway through the 30 days Im out.....but...haha.Im smarter then the average bear.......been around the block,yada yada yada.....I keep a bunch of Darvos,soma and the like on hand for the rest of the month,no prob........BUT,as Roxi,said,there is a diff between PHYSICAL WITHDRAWAL and ADDICTION........so,I used to be fine with my darvos,whatever I could scare up......but now........father time has gotten inta the picture,that shit dont cut it..............yes,no Physical Withdrawal but nooowwww.........feel Ok but really really want,no need, my fuckin meds,in fact GOTTA HAVE MY FUCKIN SHIT.....so guess thats the 'addiction'part in play.........but dont plan on changin anything at this point...........the good of all this is so far Ive havent fucked with da needle and da spoon....and/......got no use for booze anymore.....A good addict always finds the brightside right guys.............................................. ...P:)

[Fentx12]

That's really odd! You've got a unique physiology.
When you go +5 days without ANY opiates, what is your tolerance like when you restart? Is it the same tolerance from the first restarting dose as it was before? Or does it take a few days to jump back up to where it was?

my tolerance seems the same. last year i went 30 days while i was in rehab and when i came back out my tolerance felt like it was higher than before. that was probably just in my head but if definitly didn't go down

[Fentx12]

UPDATE: u guys were right! it only got worse. swim's been on fent, now 75mcg, for one full year in november. swim absolutely wd now! swim think that he just got to a certain point, and had been on fent long enough, that he now get withdrawls. in fact, just starting to wd now. bout to do a cwe on some APAP/CODEINE pills from canada. :) <kinda

[JonnyMohawk]

UPDATE: u guys were right! it only got worse. swim's been on fent, now 75mcg, for one full year in november. swim absolutely wd now! swim think that he just got to a certain point, and had been on fent long enough, that he now get withdrawls. in fact, just starting to wd now. bout to do a cwe on some APAP/CODEINE pills from canada. :) <kinda


I don't mean to burst your bubble but if you are taking 75mcg fent patch you probably won't even feel the ceiling dose (400mgs) of codeine...

I mean it comes out to under 15mcg's of fent...


I hope I'm wrong though for your sake!

[lotus]

im interested to read the replies to this. I think that it is totally possible. I used to think the same about myself, i could use everyday for a month or so and not get sick when going CT. Didnt last long till I had a horrible kick my first time. I didnt know much about w/d symptoms and thought i was horribly sick. A little lookin around online let me know i was an addict!

i did sort of the same thing - but i knew about w/d symptoms etc.......just - for whatever reason, it took me like a full year to realize no, i don't have the flu 3x a week, it's dope dope sick - i was shocked - utterly shocked and wordlessly stun'd.

1 year of shooting dope - running out - like clockwork getting some fucked up flu shit as i happen to desperately want more dope with everything in me *climb- the-walls-and-pull-my-hair-out-till-i-get-more*......fucking amazing~

[RxQueen]

hahaha... it's funny how so many of us mistook our first "dopesick" for regular sick-sick! or well, maybe i was just trying at the time to convince myself that it didn't have anything to do with all the morphine and dilaudid running out at the same time. but i do remember a little while afterwards, i was looking back on it... i was so bummed when it really dawned on me that i'd been dopesick, instead of catching a short flu. and then since the pill source was gone, i started into my first heroin habit.... go figure!

to the OP: sorry that the sickness finally caught up with you. it sucks, but it was inevitable. however, it's a good thing you let us know.... we woulda wanted to hunt you down and cut ya up to find the miracle secret to never getting sick! ;)

[OpiateQueen]

UPDATE: u guys were right! it only got worse. swim's been on fent, now 75mcg, for one full year in november. swim absolutely wd now! swim think that he just got to a certain point, and had been on fent long enough, that he now get withdrawls. in fact, just starting to wd now. bout to do a cwe on some APAP/CODEINE pills from canada. :) <kinda
thanks for the update! i find that interesting... what is cwe?? And if yoou are a CP patient how come u always getting in withdrawls?? Do u use more than ur supposed to all the time - like i no doubt would?? or is SWIM not getting any of the stuff scripted for him??

[JonnyMohawk]

thanks for the update! i find that interesting... what is cwe??


CWE = Cold Water Extraction (http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=19376)

[jacky]

well,....no opiates is worse than some opiates.
when forced into withdrawal...but having access to small amounts of opiates/opioids....I was always alot better off...because for a period of time I felt OK, and could get food and water and meds into me.

its like an accidental weening regimine sometimes when I couldnt get stuff and had to go sick for hours or days. I usually had some meds that would help...and alot of the time it was hydrocodones and codeine that was used to ramp down from a high tolerance.

I had to do this when I was sick with Hep B, unable to work, and pretty much moneyless, and also too sick to score for other people...I lost my ranking in the system of doper to dealer, and became the charity case.
dealers wouldnt come into my house I was so sick with Hep B...I looked like death.
if anyones interested, I have a post called shitting out of my mouth here at opiophile that is one of the more grotesque and painful experiences I have gone through during this period of my learning experienc.
anyway....
the codeine and hydrocodone helped....but not for long...after a few days though....it all starts coming together.

when I use buprenorphine I dont feel quite right for a few days at least....
ramping down onto less potent meds is similiar I think.
you go a few days, your tolerance is quick to reduce a bit, the meds starting having more effect for around a week until your tolerance starts to build again...or days...

I have wished many times that I could still get OTC codeine....alot of the shitty experiences I went through wouldnt have been nearly as bad if I could have had some codeine to put a speedbump into a withdrawal experience.

back in the earlier part of the century...a Dr could administer you opiates for opiate addiction on this type of a ween regimine.

[xannyman]

Damn, I am definately jealous. I have gone through some withdrawls were I thought and wished I was going to fucking die!!! Then I have been suprised at the fact that sometimes I am expecting bad withdrawls and hardly feel a thing? It's weird the way the human body can work. I am happy now though cuz its Saturday around noon, listening to the radio and on my usual 100mcg fentanly patch, chewed an OC 40 and 4 vicoden 10's (norco), took 2 2mg xanax bars, and smoked some hash.....AHHHHH if I could only feel this way every second for the rest of my life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[doctor diesel]

AHHHHH if I could only feel this way every second for the rest of my life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


...you'd get bored of it.
:p


Doc

[Papa Verine]

I agree 100%. When I'm dope-sick I'd rather have a couple Tylenol 3's than no opiates at all. Even with a huge tolerance it can take the severity of withdrawal symptoms down a notch.

[OpiateQueen]

why would anyone bother with that cwe stuff?? i mean llike u say - a few tabs of codeine isn't gonna do shit for an opiate addict.... is it?

[nick]

why would anyone bother with that cwe stuff?? i mean llike u say - a few tabs of codeine isn't gonna do shit for an opiate addict.... is it?

Depends how sick and desperate you are and if you do a CWE,you can take a lot of them-up to the ceiling dose of codeine.

[JonnyMohawk]

why would anyone bother with that cwe stuff?? i mean llike u say - a few tabs of codeine isn't gonna do shit for an opiate addict.... is it?


Well its not just codeine either, it can be done to remove tylenol from any pill, whether it be hydrocodone/apap, oxycodone/apap, etc.

[Fentx12]

haha the shitty part about doing that cwe last night.....forgot that their is 15mg caffeine and as far as i kno caffeine is water soluable. i did the cwe hoping i cud sleep......it didnt work. and to JH - i kno ur rite about codeine not doing shit for me anyway cuz of my tolerance. it was just a little head trip for me to make myself feel better

[doctor diesel]

Well its not just codeine either, it can be done to remove tylenol from any pill, whether it be hydrocodone/apap, oxycodone/apap, etc.


Yep, or even those good ol' H3s - remember them? 30mg diamorph/500mg APAP.
Aaah yes.... CWE about ten of those and you're well away.
Hmmmm.... delish. :D



Doc