Small habit addicts?

[The Paregoric Man]

A little about my habit first, I've been using opiates for 5 years daily.
I started when I found out about poppy seed tea, found a cheap source of very potent seed and used daily. I moved on to pods when potent seed was hard to find, and then when I left the US moved to using paregoric primarily as it is cheaper and less risky then shipping pods from the US.

I was a daily user literally from the first dose, it was AMAZING as I was battling depression for years and had not much of a life, I was just proud I had avoided suicide.
SSRIs and counseling did not really help me, I had no reason for my depression and anhedonia either.
My first taste of opium was just amazing, I realized I had found my cure.

I liked PST or pods best because it was both cheap and long lasting, I was using the wash of 1/4 to 1/2 pound of seed or 1-2 jumbo pods a day. I also used .5mg-1mg of buprenorphine daily for awhile.

Right now I'm taking 30ml of paregoric a day plus 12mg of diphenoxylate daily usually.

I still feel high from my daily dose for 5-6 hours, even though its only supposed to have 12mg of morphine, if I stop and get through the WD completely the original depression just returns.

My habit is costing me about 60 USD a month, to me its worth every penny for how much it has improved my life and how much enjoyment I get out of it.

I have never felt guilty or shameful, I see it as needed to keep my mental health.
I went from a depressed unmotivated agoraphobic too unmotivated to shower to married and happy in 5 years because of opium I believe.

But my wife is pressuring me to quit, I see nothing wrong with my use. I know with my tiny habit I should be able to quit but the depression that comes back is so horrible it scares me shitless.
The depression is so absurd its funny, I could see The Simpsons as a epic tragedy when sober.

Basically as I see it the drugs give amazing value, they add to my life rather then detract.

I have been able to maintain the same dose for years because I feel sated by it, I don't see any reason to escalate it if I'm happy on it. Other users have laughed and said I could not possibly be getting high off such small doses but I do. Could something be wrong with my brain chemistry/endorphins?

To head off any misinterpretations I'm not trying to say I am a superior addict or any shit like that, I just don't understand fully why I an satisfied with small daily doses for years but sobriety is torture. I think something is different/dysfunctional about my brain chemistry.

Is anyone else in my boat?

[clinton]

why is she requesting you quit?

[LTHG]

I have a similar deal...Only with pot.

I cant stop smoking it. Period.

I have been a daily user of MJ practically since I first tried it, and I doubt I will ever stop. I would consider myself addicted to MJ without a doubt.

I can be what you call "tense" at times and need something to balance me out. I refuse to use pills, as I feel MJ is a safer alternative. MJ gives me what I need to balance out. Im about to graduate from college next year with a 4 year degree and I couldn't be happier with the way my life is going. Take MJ out of the equation.....and Oh boy.....

When I first started using and experimenting with drug(s), I would try and take as much of whatever I could. However, over time, I have realized that less is more. I keep my MJ habit relatively small so it does not break me financially. I use a vaporizer, and use anywhere from .3-.5g per day. It keeps me satisfied, and it keeps my brain chemistry in check. Not many people know of my use, and I prefer to keep it that way.

Naturally, Im sure some of you are wondering why Im on an Opiate forum with a MJ habit, and if you check out my bio, I think it explains it self why Im here. Im fascinated with all drugs and their effects, however, I feel some drugs carry risks that are too great to indulge in their use. If I can help people out by sharing my past experiences and knowledge with others, I will happily do so.

Plus, I know I have an addictive personality, so I find it better just to not experiment any more than I already have because I never know what I will instantly fall in love with and over-use.

I think the key to moderately and responsibly using drugs, of all types, is being familiar with your body, and knowing yourself and personality very well.

Stay Safe.

[losangeleslifer]

Would she rather have the happy you, or the basket case I feel like shit and I might want to check out of here you?

[The Paregoric Man]

why is she requesting you quit?

She is ideologically opposed to mood altering chemicals, including beer or wine. She sees it as wrong and won't use any psychoactive chemicals even when medically required.

She also sees the money as ridiculous waste, the amount doesn't matter its just what its spent on.

[clinton]

was she aware of your use prior to your marriage?

[LTHG]

She also sees the money as ridiculous waste, the amount doesn't matter its just what its spent on.

My GF sees the same thing with my habit.

However, given that I spend less than $100/month on my DOC, the improvement in my quality of life is well worth the price to me.

As long as you are not pawning off possessions, stealing, panhandling...ect to spend thousands on getting hopelessly high every day, I think the wasting money issue is kinda petty.

If it makes you happy, and is reasonably under control....I see absolutely no problem with it.

[Duckfeet]

I agree...but me, I never could get both of those rolling at the same time, tho...I just got thru restudying algebra and *inverse*proportions for some sick reason...and I think this might be one of those "inverse" proportions: one goes up, the other goes down...too bad, tho, nice thought...:cool:


My GF sees the same thing with my habit.
However, given that I spend less than $100/month on my DOC, the improvement in my quality of life is well worth the price to me.
As long as you are not pawning off possessions, stealing, panhandling...ect to spend thousands on getting hopelessly high every day, I think the wasting money issue is kinda petty.
If it makes you happy, and is reasonably under control....I see absolutely no problem with it.

[The Paregoric Man]

was she aware of your use prior to your marriage?

Yes, but she thought I would grow out of it in her words. She was not always aware I was still using either, sometimes she would say something like I'm glad you stopped and see you are happy. I'd tell her I was still using she just had not noticed and she would get angry. Unless she saw the box or heard me grinding the pods she never noticed since I dosed once a day.

We have a sort of don't ask don't tell arrangement, the only thing I hate is when she applies drug addict stereotypes to me when she knows better.

I've asked her to point out the negatives of my use and she can only come up with money and a sense it is wrong. She thinks the positives are just rationalizing.

[The Paregoric Man]

I agree...but me, I never could get both of those rolling at the same time, tho...I just got thru restudying algebra and *inverse*proportions for some sick reason...and I think this might be one of those "inverse" proportions: one goes up, the other goes down...too bad, tho, nice thought...:cool:

Yea, its not really will power either its just that a small amount makes me feel fine and I don't feel the need to take more, but if I don't get my dose I'd walk 10 miles probably :D

Funny thing, my sister recently told me she has been taking darvocet daily for years and shes happy with it because it solves all her mental health issues. This stunned me since we had both stumbled on low dose daily opiates independently. Although propoxyphene is totally worthless to me.

I feel like opiates make me a normal person who can gain satisfaction from life.

[Chipper]

...getting hopelessly high...

I'm not sure how high that is but it sure sounds good to me! :)

It's been five years, that's a serious habit - big or small. If you suffer rebound depression then I would take that issue to a psych doc and see what's new in anti-depressants, habit or no habit. She will see that you're real about this and still battling this depression, whichever way you can.

FWIW, my ex-partner used to put the pressure on me and basically gave me the option of the drugs or me ... notice the use of "ex". We can sure be stubborn, but not always for the better. Explore your options and try to keep the girl.

As always, good luck!

[clinton]

so your wife doesnt like the stigma that is attached?

you have no problem paying for it, your not overdoing it..hmm..
tough nut to crack...

has she seen you w/o opiates?

[digby]

It can be a wonderful thing to be able to feel some euphoria from a very small dose of opiates. I once went for 6 years in this fashion, and as I was taking vicodins for chronic headache as well as another chronic pain condition, all I had to do was to stop taking anything for a few weeks every 6 to 8 months, and my tolerance was reset to zero.

It was great. All the benefits of opiates without ANY of the negatives at such a small dose. It wasn't until much later, when conditions changed and I was forced to go to larger doses of more potent pain killers, that the bad side effects of Chronic Opiate Use really reared its ugly head. There are some nice effects made possible by some of the heavy hitters, but for what it's worth, I think I preferred those early days.

[The Paregoric Man]

Yea I didn't know how to phrase it really, I sure don't feel like a chipper I feel like an addict, on the other hand I've been kind of laughed at and dismissed by other addicts just because they use more then me.

Once just out of curiosity I was investigating sub doctors when I was in the US and the cost was unjustifiable, but this one recommended counseling when I made the mistake of saying I had never touched heroin. He seemed to treat me as a wannabe or attention seeker or something. I felt like dude I am a drug seeker not attention lol.

[Jeff_D]

I'd never even heard of paregoric until I came across this thread! Shit! You learn something every day! Can you buy it over the counter where you are Mr Paregoric Man?

I had to look it up on Wikipedia - I'm in the UK and in 48mins from now I'm gonna pick up my 'done - but while I'm in there I'm going to attempt to purchase said liquid...0.4mgs of Morphine per mg - worth investigating I think...:)

Wish me luck...

I'm struggling not to refer to the recent victory over the Windies by the magnificent England Cricket Team - and I have failed!

[The Paregoric Man]

I'd never even heard of paregoric until I came across this thread! Shit! You learn something every day! Can you buy it over the counter where you are Mr Paregoric Man?

I had to look it up on Wikipedia - I'm in the UK and in 48mins from now I'm gonna pick up my 'done - but while I'm in there I'm going to attempt to purchase said liquid...0.4mgs of Morphine per mg - worth investigating I think...:)

Wish me luck...

I'm struggling not to refer to the recent victory over the Windies by the magnificent England Cricket Team - and I have failed!

LOL I am from the US originally so its cool, I don't take the Windies loss personally.

You can indeed buy it OTC, I got my username from this one pharmacy clerk that dubbed me that. He thinks hes hip and cool that he knows the secret:cool:

My wife can't understand the joy I get being able to pick up my DOC at the same time we buy groceries from the in store pharmacy, its just so flipping cool. Pound of ground beef, two pounds of sugar, three bottles of opium tincture, dry rice...

[Swellin]

Has your wife ever experienced severe depression. I would venture to say no simply because of what you said before, she does not believe in any mind altering drugs, not to be rude but that is just ridiculously ignorant. Any one who has experience full blown depression knows its probably the worst feeling out there, death would be a welcomed presence if only to take away the depression. I have experienced it once in my life at about 16 and it only lasted about 3 days but i never plan on experiencing it again. I don't know about your depression issues but if you explain to her that this is your treatment, and its changed your life she should at least agree with you on some level. Does she eat chocolate? drink coffee those all alter your body chemistry. Bottom line if she cares about you and your mental state she should just back off. Self medicating should not be looked down upon especially in your case since it has helped you out so much.

[hovadagod]

If such a low dose of opi's is treating serious depression, I don't see the problem. If you are an addict and all you care about is your paragoric, I can see the wife getting pissed. Maybe you should be more low key. Like maybe grind some pods and put them in capsules so people stop calling you paragoric man. That doesn't go over well with an anti-drug wifey. IF you put pod flour in capsules, you can take your vitamins in peace.

[Restharrow]

She is ideologically opposed to mood altering chemicals, including beer or wine. She sees it as wrong and won't use any psychoactive chemicals even when medically required.

She also sees the money as ridiculous waste, the amount doesn't matter its just what its spent on.
Sounds like my wife. Poppy pods freaked her out. She was a hippie in the late 1960's, early 1970's, but she only rarely smoked weed and took no other drugs. She stopped smoking MJ mid-1970's and is opposed to all drugs, medicine, etc. My wife was a hippie more for politcal reasons and I was only looking for fun.

We have been together about 30 years now. Even though all my meds have been obtained from my doctor, it has been a big issue with us.

There is a mental "divide" that people have over drugs. There are some people who will NEVER be comfortable with any type of mood altering drug. I think you and I both married one. The "don't ask - don't tell" situation is where we are at and it has worked well since the late 1990's. IMO thats the best case scenerio for you -- she is not going to change her deeply held conviciton that there is something wrong with changing your brain with chemicals. MY WIFE EVEN GETS ANGRY OVER MY SPENDING MONEY ON VITAMINS and she is having medical difficulties due to some vitamin deficiency. I was forcing her to take vitamins with breakfast and she finally started claiming "nausea" as a reason not to take them.

Your post describes my wife perfectly. I am a lot older than you and have worked on the issues for a while.

Good luck!
Will

[Papa Verine]

I really feel you on this one. I maintain on PST and as long as I don't do any heroin or drink too much I can stay happy on low doses day after day.

I don't have a wife, or a girlfriend, and don't think I'd like being in that situation. I wish I could give you some advice but my experience with relationships is very limited.

[Indy]

Try to keep it as low as possible for as long as possible. I managed that for a few YEARS and everything worked out perfectly. I can still remember the maybe 3 or 4 decisions that lead to the increase in my habit.

[The Paregoric Man]

MY WIFE EVEN GETS ANGRY OVER MY SPENDING MONEY ON VITAMINS and she is having medical difficulties due to some vitamin deficiency. I was forcing her to take vitamins with breakfast and she finally started claiming "nausea" as a reason not to take them.


Oh lord this made me laugh, my wife also will NOT take vitamins despite me buying them for her even as she doesn't eat the best diet and complains about low energy and other problems. I try to eat good but I also take a cheapo generic full vitamin/mineral supplement once daily and she has made numerous comments that I look like a druggie taking a pill every day.:rolleyes:

I'm really easy going and open minded so it doesn't bother me so much, just some ugly comments she can make bother me. Other then that sometimes I like her stance as it gives an interesting alternate view on reality.

[Restharrow]

Oh lord this made me laugh, my wife also will NOT take vitamins despite me buying them for her even as she doesn't eat the best diet and complains about low energy and other problems. I try to eat good but I also take a cheapo generic full vitamin/mineral supplement once daily and she has made numerous comments that I look like a druggie taking a pill every day.:rolleyes:

I'm really easy going and open minded so it doesn't bother me so much, just some ugly comments she can make bother me. Other then that sometimes I like her stance as it gives an interesting alternate view on reality.
I am easy going and try to use humor also.

My wife eats a very good diet, cooks most meals from scratch and thinks vitamins are a scam.
It got to the point, that I was trying to feed her vitamins, like you feed a 2-year old child, "Open wide sweetie, the little space ship wants to land, Woooooooooo, Woooooooooo, its a little train and your mouth is the tunnel. The blue vitamin is the engine Wooo Woooo, here comes the little caboose vitamin". If you have ever fed a 2-year old, this post may make sense.

After thinking about it, your situation is a little more difficult than mine. Since pods are not really designed to make tea with, its harder to argue your point. My impression is its OK legally to make poppy tea, as long as you are NOT trying to refine drugs from it. You might try, a low-key attempt at explaining that the same chemicals in the pods are available in pill form, and your only other option is to go to expensive doctors, expensive prescriptions, etc. You probably will not convince her, but it may make the DADT work better.

Its basicly an argument you can't win so my strategy is to keep it low key. Our situation improved drasticly, when I had serious health problems. Worrying about prescription co-pays, vitamins, etc. gets overshadowed quick, when real problems occur. I wish I could go back to the days when concern over the cost of vitamins was a problem.

Good luck!
Will

[Dan Steely]

Eventually if not already she is going say something like I can't believe that is more important to you than I am. Turn it around and say I can't believe you would let such a little thing come between "us". Not that logic will get you anywhere. In reality you would probably just be better off hiding it from her which you should be able to pull off since you only dose once a day. and screw honesty. its so f'n over rated. If people were truly honest with each other all the time society wouldn't function. A good friend of mine has hid his daily weed habit from his wife for 15 years. Pretty much a don't ask don't tell situation. Nonsense, sure but they are still married and have a nice family. Me, I managed to stay married for 8 months. She also thought I would change. I did, I stopped listening to her crap.

[OverDriven]

This is my biggest fear when it comes to opiates. You use them as a crutch, and then form relationships and friendships while using that crutch. If the opiates were removed, would everything come tumbling down like a house of cards? It's very likely if you go back to your pre-opiate self. The knowledge that someone might only "love" the person that the drug makes me become is a sobering thought. It sounds nice to imagine that you can keep this game up forever, but in reality you probably can't. My best advice is to taper off, and then seek help with the problems that were plaguing you in the first place. It will take a lot of effort, and a lot of dedication in your marriage, but you have a chance of making it through this with everything in tact.

[doctor diesel]

This is my biggest fear when it comes to opiates. You use them as a crutch, and then form relationships and friendships while using that crutch. If the opiates were removed, would everything come tumbling down like a house of cards? It's very likely if you go back to your pre-opiate self. The knowledge that someone might only "love" the person that the drug makes me become is a sobering thought. It sounds nice to imagine that you can keep this game up forever, but in reality you probably can't. My best advice is to taper off, and then seek help with the problems that were plaguing you in the first place. It will take a lot of effort, and a lot of dedication in your marriage, but you have a chance of making it through this with everything in tact.


I would disagree with that, OD. Paregoric Man has a long-term problem with depression, that the medical experts have not been able to help with.
Then PM himself finds the solution, in the form of opiates (the world's most effective and least recognised anti-depressants) and goes about self-medicating to tremendous effect, in a highly controlled and moderate fashion.
It works, works well, and it's highly unlikely that weaning off this and going back into the 'care' of medics is going to result in anything better. Highly unlikely.
Tolerance isn't even rearing its ugly head in PM's case, so the ONLY issue is his partner's negative stance - negative and really quite unreasonable. I think Paregoric Man should continue this effective regimen of self-medication, and the next time the partner starts criticising, he should sit her down and very firmly explain that he is not prepared to become depressed again, that this is as good as things get, that no harm is being done, and that this situation is going to continue.
As someone said previously, it sounds as if wifey/girlfriend has no personal experience of depression; if that's the case, she clearly needs educating, and educating firmly.

Doc.

[Larry]

Eventually if not already she is going say something like I can't believe that is more important to you than I am. Turn it around and say I can't believe you would let such a little thing come between "us". Not that logic will get you anywhere. In reality you would probably just be better off hiding it from her which you should be able to pull off since you only dose once a day. and screw honesty. its so f'n over rated. If people were truly honest with each other all the time society wouldn't function. A good friend of mine has hid his daily weed habit from his wife for 15 years. Pretty much a don't ask don't tell situation. Nonsense, sure but they are still married and have a nice family. Me, I managed to stay married for 8 months. She also thought I would change. I did, I stopped listening to her crap.

+1

It sounds like your only option is to keep doing the dont ask dont tell shit, As its pretty damn obvious she wont change her opinion on mind altering substances. I wouldnt even bother trying to explain or reason with her why you take the small amount of opiates that you do, because no matter what you say she has already made up her mind. Shes never tried any type of drug, Surely never been addicted so its pretty obvious she doesnt understand or doesnt want to understand either.

The Small amount of opiates you are taking sounds like its doing alot more positive on your life then negative I honestly dont see a problem at all.

[StackBundles]

^^^It's one, the other, or both. I'd be damned if I'd let somebody shit in my generic corn flakes for the sake of some illogical moral belief.

If that situation got out of hand, I'd do what Steely D wisely did and break the fuck out like a rash.

[Narkotikon]

$60 a month for a habit is damned good in my opinion. She should be thankful that it's not something more expensive.

I really don't understand people who object to drugs simply because it's "morally wrong." I can understand objecting to it when it decreases the person's quality of life: if it's causing problems; if the person can't be responsible anymore while on drugs; if they can't take care of themselves (or their children if they have children). That type of thing. I mean, people nowadays act like anyone who takes a drug (even prescriptions) is automatically an addict. Addiction is properly defined as when the drugs affect a person's life negatively. Sure, it may some people, but other people can handle it.

For instance, chronic pain patients who take narcotics everyday for pain get pegged as addicts simply because they take narcotics, or because they have tolerances and are physically dependent (which is normal and will happen to everyone if taken long enough). But that doesn't mean they're addicts. That irks me. Addictions doesn't necessarily play into that. Addiction and tolerance and dependence aren't the same things. And recreational use isn't addiction either. I wish people, and especially people in the medical community, would recognize that. It's fucks up treatment for people, addicts or not, who ever admitt to even smoking the odd joint.

And then they wonder why people lie. Um, because even if you're not an addict, and admit to having the odd joint, you get pegged as an addict and get no treatment. Of course people are going to lie. I'd never tell a doctor that I'm an opiate addict, unless I absolutely had to--like now because I'm on Subs--because I know I wouldn't get adequate treatment if I needed it. It's not really because I'm an evil junky looking to score pills (although that is what would be perceived), it's because I want treatment if I'd need it. And I'd rather get something shitty like a script for Tylenol 3's that would only do an opiate-naive person good, than nothing at all because I'm an opiate addict.

The other thing that irks me about this mentality is that they're objecting to people being happy. Not everyone is a happy person, and if you've found something to make you happy, and it's not causing you any harm (i.e., there are no negative side effects, which is possibly true for some drug users), then what's the harm? It's like they're saying being happy is a crime.

I say if it's not causing you problems, and you're happy, no harm done. It sounds like a fairly managable habit. And even if it is causing you problem, look on the brite side: it's only 60 bucks a month compared to thousands. Good luck.

[OxyQueen]

Would she rather have the happy you, or the basket case I feel like shit and I might want to check out of here you?
always always go with "having the happy you" option....without a doubt ...the basket case i feel like shit and i might want to check out of here you is NOT a good situation for anyone

[kellyblue]

Paragoric Man-

I'm going to toss something out here, but before I do- PLEASE don't take offense. I am in NO WAY assuming anything--- just putting an idea out there. Now- before I "go there" let me make it clear that I do have legitimate chronic pain for which I take sometimes large doses of mostly prescribed narcotics. But- once I saw, FOR ME PERSONALLY, how well the opies worked for my day to day depression and my overall mood in general- I've since been known to self-medicate, and/or use my pain meds in more of an "off label" use for depression. So- in NO way am I suggesting that I'm better than you... holier than thou... or anything even close. "K"? Nor am I calling you "weak" in ANY sense of the word!

Also- I have always been of the mindset that "If it's not broke, don't fix it". Meaning that, in your case, other than your wife not agreeing with your using... there are no major problems in your life caused by or as a result of your using... so basically, If I had to "choose a team", I'd be on yours.

WHEW! Now that my disclaimer is out of the way:

Have you ever considered that just the FEAR of the depression is what keeps you coming back to the Paragoric? I mean- I've been there, where I was terrified to quit the opiates from FEAR of the pain, not the actual pain itself. Does that make sense? I've also been known to "up" my dose- from fear that the pain MIGHT get worse.

I always manage to justify it of course, "I did alot more walking than usual today- better take an extra pill before the pain hits." Or- "Doc MIGHT want to do a more involved exam today- better take an extra so I'm ready just in case." And honestly (until that weird happening today) I don't get high on my meds... no matter how much I take.

If I take too much, I'll throw them up... way before I have a chance to get high... so in my case- it's truly the "fear" of the pain that causes me to continue to take more and more, stronger and stronger meds. As a result, my tolerance is sky high now- and I'm desperately trying to bring in down to a more manageble level. But- again- FEAR of the pain taking complete control is making it pretty hard to do so.

I read this posting fairly quickly so I may have missed it- but have you (recently) tried to give up the Paragoric, just to see what happens? With an open mind... of course.

Ok- I've droned on plenty... I just wanted to offer another viewpoint. Think about it before you answer, as it took me a long time to realize this is what I was doing. Again- not judging you, assuming anything, or suggesting that you have anything psycological going on... it's an honest fear! My last doctor is actually the one who pointed out what I was doing before I realized it myself. She didn't accuse me of any wrong doing, or assume that I was mis-using my meds. She was just trying to figure out how my tolerance was so high, so fast. Loved that doc... half tempted to move three states away simply so I can continue to see her.

Anyway- it's something to think about- keep us "posted"... !

[OverDriven]

I would disagree with that, OD. Paregoric Man has a long-term problem with depression, that the medical experts have not been able to help with.
Then PM himself finds the solution, in the form of opiates (the world's most effective and least recognised anti-depressants) and goes about self-medicating to tremendous effect, in a highly controlled and moderate fashion.
It works, works well, and it's highly unlikely that weaning off this and going back into the 'care' of medics is going to result in anything better. Highly unlikely.
Tolerance isn't even rearing its ugly head in PM's case, so the ONLY issue is his partner's negative stance - negative and really quite unreasonable. I think Paregoric Man should continue this effective regimen of self-medication, and the next time the partner starts criticising, he should sit her down and very firmly explain that he is not prepared to become depressed again, that this is as good as things get, that no harm is being done, and that this situation is going to continue.
As someone said previously, it sounds as if wifey/girlfriend has no personal experience of depression; if that's the case, she clearly needs educating, and educating firmly.

Doc.

I hear ya. I'm just kinda going from my own experience. Those are the feelings I've dealt with because of my own addiction.