Morphine Precursor in metabolism

[TTD]

This is probably one of a thousand stories about morphine being found in nature, and in the brain through normal the metabolic process, but this also furthers a theory ive thought for a long long time was true, namely that opiate addiction could be a result of natural deficiencies in the brain of not necessarily morphine, but any of the enkephalins, and that chronic pain could also be a result of this deficiency.



This story also has something interesting in it called Reticuline, which is said to be a precursor to morphine in the body. Reticuline is chemically a benzylisoquinoline, which is turned into a phenathrene in the body first as a conversion to Salutaridinol, then into Thebaine and from there the rest of the phenathrene opiate "morphinans"



I thought id post the relevant parts to see if anyone else has heard about this, and to see if anyone else thinks opiate addiction or chronic pain work in the same way as theorized :)



http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65053,00.html

"Instead of pumping patients full of morphine, Stefano said, doctors could instead give a morphine precursor -- a molecule that would set off a chain reaction eventually resulting in increased morphine production in the brain. Stefano, who has championed the existence of morphine in the brain for years, published proof of such a precursor, called reticuline, in the journal Molecular Brain Research in 2003. The approach could circumvent dependency because it would increase an individual's own morphine levels instead of replacing natural morphine with a synthetic version. Similarly, a drug called levodopa, a precursor to dopamine, is commonly used to treat Parkinson's disease."



"The discovery could also explain why some people are more susceptible to addiction -- they may have a morphine deficiency. "All of a sudden," Stefano said, "(morphine-deficient individuals) take this compound (and) it really makes them feel not only good but normal." A morphine deficiency could also be the cause of some chronic pain, Stefano said."

[jacky]

yes, yes yes, and another one is called salutaridine, reticuline is salutaridines precursor, reticulin will turn into morphine if it is fed to the tobacco plant, this I know from some old book on alkaloids from the 60's.

the reticuline is taken up into the plants biosynthesis pathways...and turned into morphine.

some scientists think that pretty much the same process happens in primates.

although it doesnt seem that supplementing with reticuline or salutaridine might lead to added opiate effects?

I know that reticuline and salutaridine are found in some medicinal herbs and some general plants that I am not sure of any medicinal use...taken from Dr Alexander Shulgins book on Isoquinolines, also co-authored by Wendy E Perry...reticuline is found in sassafras
papaver bracteatum
argemone gracilenta
peumus boldus
california poppy
opium poppy
and a whole list of other plants

salutaridine is found interestingly in Papaver fugax, which after much waiting and
looking I have found seeds for, tried to grow them last year, and failed...but this year I have
nearly 20 containers with hundreds of papaver fugax plants growing...will share photos
later in the year....

salutaridine occurs in some croton species, which I have though possible as the most likely source plant for the production of "red rock opium"? but I could be wrong...
papaver orientale
glaucium species
corydalis species
stephania species
generally alot of the papaveraceae species have this
compound occuring... of the above species listed
salutaridine doesnt appear in all the different species
just 3-4-5 of them....

I will be interested in any research done on these compounds, perhaps poor metabolic/catabolic synthesis is part of my attraction to exogenous opiates, maybe I am deficient, maybe I could use some help doctor..."hey, why dont you run a opiate precursor screen on me, and see if I am deficient of reticuline or saluraridine, and if I am, well dammit, getrdone!"


thanks karen for pulling our attention to this natural product..
hey, dont we have a salutariding around here?
and if you will notice my avatar folks, a poor representation of the salutaridine molecule at hand, complete with warpage effects

[exitwound]

TheTripDoctor is the man.....and despite what his name may sound like, he's one of the most well read pharmacology experts and opiophiles I have ever met! He's a good friend of mine and I hope you'll all welcome him to the forums; clearly he's got a lot of fascinating shit to share with us -- this is just a small example! :-)

[jacky]

ahhh, my mistake....
I confused karen360 with the TTD....sorry TTD
thanks for bringing this info to the head!

[exitwound]

ahhh, my mistake....
I confused karen360 with the TTD....sorry TTD
thanks for bringing this info to the head!

You are going to like TheTripDoctor. He is a very old and good friend of mine from my earliest days as a human drug encyclopedia, long before I developed chronic pain. He has suffered from CP and other dire health conditions, knows a ton about practically anything you'd ever want to know, and IMHO is one of the great Opiophiles of our generation :cool:

He has a lot to offer this forum and I'm so glad that he has been posting here more actively, recently. I hope he'll continue to share his considerable body of knowledge and experience with us.....as he continues to defy death every day despite a very precarious and complex heart condition (genetic, not caused by any drug use).

[ZodiacKiller]

I also would like to extend a welcome to TTD. I think you will be a great addition to the board; talk about the right way to introduce yourself---newbies take note!!

As for me, some of the more advanced chemistry involved with opiates flies right over my head (which also makes me question whether that lack of knowledge would affect my ability to be a good mod overall), but it's great to have more people like TTD and Chemboy-7 who do possess that kind of info. And Jacky would probably have more people he can relate to, haha...


ZK

[TTD]

Thanks for all the welcoming, and the complements EW :)

Jacky: when you say red rock opium, are you refering to dragons blood the stuff they sell everywhere as incense, or are you saying perhaps some small percentage of material sold as red rock opium could in fact come from a plant with a chemical such as mentioned above, with real CNS effects?

Thats a very interesting concept, i had always thought red rock opium was 100% "incense" sold as opium.

Or, are you saying dragons blood might actually have similar compounds in it?

[jacky]

if the red rock opium is what I think it is, croton lechleri resin, or another related croton species, then there is a chance that the alkaloid salutaridine is present, especially in croton salutaris would I expect to find salutaridine....I have shulgins book on isoquinolines at hand right now..so lets see.........

I see names like salutaridine...reticuline the precursor to salutaridine....isosalutaridine in around 10 out of 20 some croton species listed....
I notice that the only isoquinoline listed in croton salutaris is salutaridine...

also present in some of these species I notice is nuciferine...a chemical present in other medicinal herbs like chinese dates...these dates are really good for opiate withdrawl..they help stop the sweats, and are sedatives. I think nuciferine occurs in the nympheae flower species...and possibly could have some psychoactive effects as nuciferin is described as a hypnotic...

I know some of these croton species are highly toxic. some are used to draw the toxins in boils to the skin, some are used as purgatives I think.

croton lechleri can be consumed orally, I have done so more than a few times. I think if a person is going to get an effect from "red rock opium" it would be someone eating the material, not tediously smoking a material that might take a few grams orally to give a psychoactive effect.

I am coming out from left feild on this subject....but there COULD be some interesting findings with this plant species, also I think that a gifted chemist might find some of these plants useful for alkaloid material for analog research....hell, maybe even one of these species could be used to coax morphine from selective biosynthesis.

a few species contain norsinoacutine...which is related to sinoacutine , a precursor of sinomenine, a compound explained as epimeric to morphine.

croton lechleri is used as an analgesic....so is sassafras, which contains reticuline.

I notice that in Shulgins book that croton lechleri is listed as containing only 1 isoquinoline salutaridine... perhaps there is more to learn about saluraridine and other morphine precursors?