Finally got switched to OC80's!

[exitwound]

Thank god.

I got the Watson brand; anyone have an opinion as to how they compare to other brands of OC?

[shaunclo]

I am seriously very happy for you EW, I know how long you have been trying to get something to be able to help you out the way you need to be helped.

I have only had experience with the mexican generic form, but I dont see why you would even care, I mean YOU FINALLY HAVE SOME OXYCODONE!!!! WOOOOO HOOOOO!!!! (that is not mean to be sarcastic at all) Who cares how they compare to other brands, dont look the gift horse in the mouth. just start popping and let us know how they work for ya. That is unless your asking because you get to pick what brand you get and you want to know what the best are. Serioulsy, I havnt noticed any difference between different brands, as long as it has some opiate derivative in it.

I am so glad your doc finally listened to you and gave you what you needed. Say goodbye to the blow-torch in the groing, heh?

You must be so fuckin stoked right now, I bet you could barely hold back that 10 inch grin when your doc said he was going to switch you the OC's, ESPECIALLY 80'S!!!! I have never even seen an 80mg oxy, CONGRATS TO YOU, YOU LUCKY DUCK!!!

[exitwound]

thanks shaunclo :-)

i'm still surprised that things went this way. but honestly, it was about time. i would have tried to make do with more MS Contin, but I'm a lot better off this way.

Less fatigue, no more morphine nightmares every night.....

Now I just have to be patient and wait a little longer to take my first dose.....I'll be sure to report back on how it goes :-)

[BiGbOi]

Thank god.

I got the Watson brand; anyone have an opinion as to how they compare to other brands of OC?

I am very pleased to hear the good new's exit =) I sincerely hope these can at least ease your pain enough that you can carry on with a somewhat normal life. i have an appointment with my doc on wed to see how much they raise my methadone and see what kind of breakthrough med's i get. I have surgery next friday and i am dreading it(severe nerve damage and 2herniated discs).

Once again i am so happy to hear this exit and i hope ths help's ya cope with your daily routine as you have said to me so often no one deserve's to be in such pain.

Be safe and have fun!!

[devilsdrug]

great its about time eh

[Frontier Psychiatrist]

I think the watson brand is the one thats the same color and shape. It even has the 80 on one side, but says ABG on the other. That's the kind I've always gotten from my "pharmacist".

[caesee]

Thank god.

I got the Watson brand; anyone have an opinion as to how they compare to other brands of OC?

I have had the 40's that were watson brand. They didnt gel up on me when I chewed, though the 80's might be differnt. your doc finally come around? Just curious what changed his mind, being as you said u though he would never take you off of morph...

[Neo]

Thank god.

I got the Watson brand; anyone have an opinion as to how they compare to other brands of OC?
I remember seeing on a site that the Watson brand does contain talc. if iv'nn could be bad news. just warning ya, do check up on it.

[ZodiacKiller]

Glad to hear it, EW--and let me secong those above that said IT'S ABOUT FUCKING TIME!!

So, now ya gonna go nuts and get high, burn through your whole supply in a week, and have a big snarly monkey on your back like the rest of us do? j/k, but the OC high is what got me where I am, brother. She's a seductive bitch who will OWN you if you ain't careful. Because of Mistress Oxy I am now a heroin addict, yay!!!

Ah, don't mind me, I'm just poopy 'cause I've been back on boring 'ol sub after like eight days of heavy indulgence; you have cause to celebrate!! I am glad for you!

ZK

[Cornburglar]

Thank god.

I got the Watson brand; anyone have an opinion as to how they compare to other brands of OC?

exit.. that's awesome. Here's to hoping this releases you from the chronic pain.

[exitwound]

I think the watson brand is the one thats the same color and shape. It even has the 80 on one side, but says ABG on the other. That's the kind I've always gotten from my "pharmacist".

Yup, them's the ones :cool:

They smell like fresh paint.

I'm going to have to dive into heavy-duty, in-depth OC knowledge gathering the way I did about morphine and mscontin when I was put on them.

I have a fairly big stash of mscontin left, and I'll use them as secondary long-acting meds and sock away most of the extra hydro I get for a rainy day......same with the opium I grow/make.

[goagirl23]

I have enjoyed all the brands except for the generics that are an oval shape. They tend to get gummy, stick to your teeth and instead of getting "the nod" They just make me really tired. Im not complaining though, I take what I can get! Any brand of OC 80's is much better than MS Contin. Congradulations!

[opiobsessed]

Ah, don't mind me, I'm just poopy 'cause I've been back on boring 'ol sub after like eight days of heavy indulgence; you have cause to celebrate!! I am glad for you!

ZK[/quote]

Gee Zodiac, I feel very sorry for you right now after reading this, I wish you the best of luck and as much comfort as possible back on your subs, especially after what I just finished going through. And as usual, I'm looking forward to gearing up once again, I'm starting to feel lucky in a way that I'm a junky and feel like I'm in the company of cool people for once in my life. Most other junkies like me in various stages of life that I've met so far, both in rehab and in face to face real life and on here, for the most part we all seem to be calm, friendly, nice people as long as we're not wd'ing, even then I myself try to avoid people and curl up hidden inside so people dont have to see or put up with my being sick and I dont have to put up with the general people either. Good luck, hope you aren't as bummed as I've been the past week back on my subs.

[poppy]

Great news Exitwound,
Its not a drug i have any knowledge of but obviously you know your pain and clearly its what you needed to help you with your pain.(does that make sense? Sorry if it doesn't)

This site has given me an insight into what people who suffer chronic physical pain every day have to go through. I'm ashamed to say its something I'd never given much consideration to prior to getting involved with this site.(Hopefully I'm not the only junkie who has learned about this)

Anyway I just wanted to wish you all the best and I sincerely hope this new medication lives up to your expectations and enables you to live a life with less physical pain.

[exitwound]

great its about time eh

Ain't that the fucking truth, man!

I could kiss my friggin doc, and that's not usually my style at all :D

I still get some nasty breakthrough pain but the oxycodone works SO much better than the morphine....plus this dose is a lot more realistic for me. I don't need nearly as much extra hydro now -- although it's still a fair amount, I just downed 30mg on top of my bedtime OC80.

[exitwound]

Glad to hear it, EW--and let me secong those above that said IT'S ABOUT FUCKING TIME!!
So, now ya gonna go nuts and get high, burn through your whole supply in a week, and have a big snarly monkey on your back like the rest of us do? j/k, but the OC high is what got me where I am, brother. She's a seductive bitch who will OWN you if you ain't careful. Because of Mistress Oxy I am now a heroin addict, yay!!!
Ah, don't mind me, I'm just poopy 'cause I've been back on boring 'ol sub after like eight days of heavy indulgence; you have cause to celebrate!! I am glad for you!
ZK

Well, my OC's will almost entirely be staying in one piece, so that helps. I have a wife and baby to take care of every day, so I can't afford to be nodding or wasted on a regular basis.

Also, don't forget....the psychological addiction rate is less than 5% for chronic pain sufferers. I've tapered off meds several times before and never had any real issues, aside from a little bit of shitty mood syndrome ;-)

Anyhow, thanks everyone for your kind words and support and congradulations. It's not going to just nuke all my pain out of existence, but it's a shitload better than what I had to work with before that's for sure!

[exitwound]

I have had the 40's that were watson brand. They didnt gel up on me when I chewed, though the 80's might be differnt. your doc finally come around? Just curious what changed his mind, being as you said u though he would never take you off of morph...

Basically my condition got really bad a few months ago shortly after he switched me to the 180mg/day mscontin regimen and it has stayed that way, getting worse with time and now not only are my legs so bad that I can't walk a lot of the time, my back is so inflamed that I'm constantly having disabling spasms that pinch nerves, compress my spine and add a lot more pain to the mix. I just haven't been functional at all the past 10 days or so and I moved my doc appt up to today because I couldn't handle it anymore.

I told him all that, gave him some more details, he did some tests, asked some questions, and then handed me my scripts. I thought he'd just increased my morphine, which was all I thought I could realistically hope for.....

....then I looked down at the script pad in my hands and tried not to yell WOOOHOOOOO THANK FUCKING GAWD!!!! out loud right then and there....I fought to keep a straight face. It said "Oxycontin 80mg".....and my prayers were answered.

Hey, it's not like I've been put on Duragesic with Dilaudid for breakthrough or something top of the line like that, but hell....as I've said several times now, it's a lot better than the morphine!

[musingpoet]

Congrats Exitwound!!! What luck! That will take care of your pain and the super cool part is the doc is gonna keep your scripts at that level now that you have moved up! I am jealous;)
Have a good one, I know you will.

[devilsdrug]

this not ew thread but is related and have been going along w ew problems, anyway the continuing story of my buddy some of you will remember been gettin 100 oc40 for months , last month doc gave him 240 5mg oxy for breakthrough then 2 days later sent reg. letter stating he would no longer treat him in 30 days , so my friend gets another appointment inside the 30 day deal so he goes to find out whats up doc, doc says he was comin in early ( 1 time secrtary made app though) tells him hes a drug addict and is sellin pills. he is not sellin gave me a few thats it. he told doc yea hes addicts hes been scripted pain pill for over 10 yrs. doc says seeya so my friend the resourceful doper he is says he needs scrpt to get by till he can find another doc , he got written for 120 oc20 to taper but still got the breakthrough too, problem is dont think hell find another doc locallly the other who wrote died thats how come my friend got this one, gonna have to find one without spendin the $ which has been talked about here already to deathDOCTERS ARE crazy

[ZodiacKiller]

^ That is so fucked up, DD. I thinks some docs just assume that if they've been writing RXs for oxy, and the patient has just been smiling and going along with it for a long time, that the patient must be abusing or diverting somehow. I think it's best to keep complaining of pain, I guess, I don't know...If you seem content something must be amiss. Maybe your friend's doc was getting some DEA scrutiny and had to make some examples, but, yea, fucking doctors are crazy....


ZK

[flipside]

^ That is so fucked up, DD. I thinks some docs just assume that if they've been writing RXs for oxy, and the patient has just been smiling and going along with it for a long time, that the patient must be abusing or diverting somehow. I think it's best to keep complaining of pain, I guess, I don't know...If you seem content something must be amiss. Maybe your friend's doc was getting some DEA scrutiny and had to make some examples, but, yea, fucking doctors are crazy....


ZK

I've found if you complain of pain to your doc your most almost immediately labled drug seeking, if you go with the flow and don't compain then they will think you are diverting( in reality probably just to afraid to ask for what ya need for the above formentioned reason. Either way your screwed. Doctors are a crazy lot, no doubt! And seem quite determined to make their patient's just as crazy!

[exitwound]

this not ew thread but is related and have been going along w ew problems, anyway the continuing story of my buddy some of you will remember been gettin 100 oc40 for months , last month doc gave him 240 5mg oxy for breakthrough then 2 days later sent reg. letter stating he would no longer treat him in 30 days , so my friend gets another appointment inside the 30 day deal so he goes to find out whats up doc, doc says he was comin in early ( 1 time secrtary made app though) tells him hes a drug addict and is sellin pills. he is not sellin gave me a few thats it. he told doc yea hes addicts hes been scripted pain pill for over 10 yrs. doc says seeya so my friend the resourceful doper he is says he needs scrpt to get by till he can find another doc , he got written for 120 oc20 to taper but still got the breakthrough too, problem is dont think hell find another doc locallly the other who wrote died thats how come my friend got this one, gonna have to find one without spendin the $ which has been talked about here already to deathDOCTERS ARE crazy

That is some weak shit. As much as I basically worship the ground my doctor walks on now that he's moved me up to a solid base med (even though he could do far better in the BT department), I do worry that some point down the line he's going to try to pawn me off on a surgeon, physical therapist, anybody he thinks might be able to convince me to take my case off his hands. I know prescribing me Oxycontin 80's isn't exactly his desired business plan.

[ZodiacKiller]

So, it's been a while now since you first started this thread, Exit, how's it working out for you? I'm very curious, because you've needed this for some time, friend.

Are you catching a nice buzz in addition to relief from your pain? Is it all that you'd hoped?

Not trying to be nosy, so tell me to piss off if I'm asking too much...:)


ZK

[exitwound]

So, it's been a while now since you first started this thread, Exit, how's it working out for you? I'm very curious, because you've needed this for some time, friend.
Are you catching a nice buzz in addition to relief from your pain? Is it all that you'd hoped?
Not trying to be nosy, so tell me to piss off if I'm asking too much...:)
ZK

Not at all; it's quite all right to ask whatever you want :-)

I still have some nasty breakthrough pain but it's like night and day. Plus no more constant morphine nightmares. I feel more alert, I get up in the morning easier, and the pain control is far superior. My symptoms are still raging away underneath the meds but they're doing their job properly for pretty much the first time since I've had this condition.

I still can hardly believe that my condition has gotten this bad, because I know it took a journey to the very edge of intolerable agony for my doc to switch me to Oxycontin. I'm not sure where we will go from here, I don't know if he is willing to continue advancing me at this kind of pace or if he'll start pushing me to cut back as soon as I'm in the slightest degree of remission. It's hard to say. For now, though, I'm a lot better off than I was.

[exitwound]

As for high....not really, except in the sense that I feel a lot better over-all. My legs still burn and my bones still ache brutally but it's not so intolerable as it was. I don't constantly feel like begging to be taken to the ER and have a triple dose of their pharmacy's finest.

Is it all I'd hoped? Not exactly, I'm a little stupefied that I still can't seem to feel "high" per se even on this high of a dose. I can add enough hydro to get even extreme pain down to a 6 or 7 instead of the old constant 8.5-9.5+ territory of the past several months....but then I feel like laying down for a nap. I don't feel high and energized. When I keep my doses remotely reasonable, though, I have more energy than I did on morphine.

[TTD]

At exitwound's tollerance level (or any tollerance level) it takes more than a linear increase to get high, typically its almost exponential.

I was put on 40mg oxycontin Q6 a few years ago, and i remember it didnt take much to get my doc to prescribe the opiates (any), i was given hycodan (hydrocodone bitartrate plus homatropine, an anticholinergic) before that at 10mg Q4, i thought he was either crazy or somehow underinformed when he said "have you ever been on oxycontin before?" then he wrote the oxy script for 40mg Q6, which is nearly 3 times the equivalent dose i was on before that of hydrocodone, not to mention purdue thinks OC is a Q12, even though theyre crazy too. This was no more than a week after i had been on nothing at all, so from 0 to 40mg oxy Q6 in 8 days.

10mg hycodan oral Q4 is 1/3 of an equianalgesic dose, whereas 40mg oxycontin Q8 is a full equianalgesic dose, and i was on it Q6 which is obviously more.

It was after that simple change that things got worse, he kept changing from 90 per month, to 30 per 10 days, and back. Granted i was not a good little patient, i conceived my own lab proceedure for extracting 300mg of them at a time into sterile 30ml vials , for injection at a later time (ill post that proceedure later). But i never actually went over my stated dose per day until the waking up in wd happened. There were times i woke up in the middle of the night, and obviously anything i took before sleep had worn off ( Q6 adds up to 18 hours), and at this dosage your obviously dependant, so i woke up in withdrawal quite often and had to use part of one of the pills. In the end that caused a problem when i ran out sooner than i should have.

The doc never knew any of that of course, never knew i IVd it or anything else. If it werent for the waking up in wd i woulda been fine. In the end though running out a day or 2 sooner than you should have, labled me an addict.

Despite my use of oxycontin and all the others for fun, when i actually needed them for pain they did work, and even then and afterward i was never psychologically addicted to them, ive never been an addictive person, i have no idea what a craving feels like, withdrawal sucks but thats physical.

Anyone else ever have to explain the difference between physical dependance and psychological addiction to a doctor? or a nurse?

[exitwound]

thank god, my doc knows the difference well. then again, i got his name after specifically asking for someone compassionate -- able to handle strange incurable conditions -- and not afraid to prescribe serious pain meds.

[exitwound]

Another congrats to you, EW. You've suffered way too much and deserve this... and now FINALLY it's happened! Happy to hear you are doing better, and continued good luck w/ the BT meds.

And a ? for you... as we've discussed before about the M side-effects of being tired, drowsy, lethargic, etc. Do you find a huge difference w/ the Oxy (Watsons, I think you said)? Or maybe just a little? I'm wondering 'cause I'm feeling very burned out now... and it didn't feel like that at first on the M. And I also read that's a side-effect (as well as constipation) that opie users don't get use to or over after a period of time. That's some happy news, huh?:(

Gotta love it! :(

I don't quite know how to quantify the difference in fatigue but it's definitely significant. Substantial might be a good word, since dramatic or huge might be a bit of an overstatement. I still get tired sometimes when the effects peak 90-150mins after taking a dose. Especially if I've taken the higher end of my 10-30mg breakthrough pain range of Hydrocodone doses alongside it. But overall, I feel less fatigue by quite a bit.

I also don't have to deal with the poor sleep quality due to nightmares -- and my night sweats aren't as frequent, although that could be the higher dose and my partial cross-tolerance allowing the Oxy to last longer since I'm not used to it yet.

[TTD]

Morphine itself causes peripheral histamine release which then affects peripheral Histamine receptors as well as central histamine receptors in the brain. Thats the cause of many of the side effects of morphine, though morphine interacts with other systems as well.

This effect is not reduced with continued use, morphine can predictably and reliably cause histamine release in long term use. Its quite an inhibition to using it for serious pain as many have noted.

Synthetic morphinans like oxycodone dont share those same qualities, in fact oxycodones only clinically relevant effect is Mu1 agonist activity, but it does affect mu2 causing respiratory depression as well, with slightly less kappa agonist affinity.

It should be noted it IS possible to prevent histamine release, though the effects of doing this may well be worse than the side effects of any of the drugs listed below. Histamine is involved with a lot of the systems in the body and in the brain.

Some drugs known to prevent cell mast release of histamine are cromoglicate and nedrocromil.

The best way to block the effect of morphine mediated histamine release, is with a central acting H1 inverse agonist along with a peripheral H2 inverse agonist, there are many reports in the medical literature about using those together in morphine analgesia.

H1s in this case would be diphenhydramine, promethazine, doxylamine, clemastine, cyclizine, hydroxyzine, meclizine

H1s with little sedation would be loratadine, cetirizine etc

It should be noted that most drugs with H2 activity are modifications of histamine or rather, guanidine, itself as in the case with cimetidine, they are not related to the H1 class drugs chemically. The others are further modifications of cimetidine, replacing the imidazole ring with a furan ring, which is ranitidine.

H2s would be cimetidine, ranitidine, famotidine, although the last 2 have little CNS effects.

[Curio]

dd post kinda stirred up some stuff that no one has to read if they don't want to, but I had to get it out again so other ppl will know to request your own medical records NOW, or even before some painful problem happens so that you know what your doc really thinks of you and can read whether they really understood your situation on a certain visit, etc...I WISH...I WISH I had done that before I found out the HARD way that she was emotionally immature and simply all about covering her own butt and had no qualms lying AND going back and changing/forging medical records after the fact to ensure HER success and my demise...
this not ew thread but is related and have been going along w ew problems, anyway the continuing story of my buddy some of you will remember been gettin 100 oc40 for months , last month doc gave him 240 5mg oxy for breakthrough then 2 days later sent reg. letter stating he would no longer treat him in 30 days , so my friend gets another appointment inside the 30 day deal so he goes to find out whats up doc, doc says he was comin in early ( 1 time secrtary made app though) tells him hes a drug addict and is sellin pills. he is not sellin gave me a few thats it. he told doc yea hes addicts hes been scripted pain pill for over 10 yrs. doc says seeya so my friend the resourceful doper he is says he needs scrpt to get by till he can find another doc , he got written for 120 oc20 to taper but still got the breakthrough too, problem is dont think hell find another doc locallly the other who wrote died thats how come my friend got this one, gonna have to find one without spendin the $ which has been talked about here already to deathDOCTERS ARE crazy

this is what happened to me after my doc of ....maybe three years had been rxing my oxycontin for just over one year....the OC enabled me to keep working as a firefighter/paramedic and live my life....then they pulled all the cox-2 inhibitors off the market and I don't know exactly what happened other than she came at me WAY outta left field, broke HIPAA and called my husband even though I specifically told her NO as he did not keep up on my medical and prescription information or even care to know what was going on....I still don't know what they discussed....my mistake was in admitting that I was having coping problems what with suddenly NOT able to continue working through the pain, marriage and communications failing at home...basically NO support structure as far as friends, etc... as I'd moved here and just went straight into the military, then all my fire and medic training without taking a breath...no time to develop friends aside from my husband. I pulled MYSELF off duty because of neurological symptoms/deficits developing that forced me to admit to MYSELF that for the safety of the public and my crew...were I to *fail* on my job performance...well, I knew I wasn't able to do 100% or enough of what I needed to for ppl to be taken care of properly)
anyway, I suggested to my doc that she just give me a script and I'd fill it and then they could dispense it in smaller quantities...my dosages were skyrocketing because of double crush syndrome on the median nerve at the neck and at the wrist as I had also developed bilateral carpal tunnel...now had NO anti-inflammatory medications, can't take steroids, stress has increased and thus increased pain...plus I'd developed a prob with nausea and vomiting several months earlier and they could not really find a "organic" cause like an outright ulcer...it seemed obvious to someone I went to later than I was vomiting because...HELLO, my spinal cord was being compressed! anyway, I'd dose and then end up vomiting, then have to re=dose....plus my btp meds were the same way...so I was running out early and felt guilty for no reason, so I probably sounded lame in my excuses of vomiting....but yeah, I'd panic that w/d's were gonna set in at work during a call or something, so I would take MORE after throwing up to try to compensate and keep some sort of therapeutic level constant in my bloodstream...that's when I tried the patch and it made me even worse cause it lasted shorter and shorter amounts of time; before two weeks were up, a patch only lasted 36 hours!! then I had to take all my percocets or oxy 5 IRs in order to keep off w/d's and pain while I waited several hrs. for the new patch to kick in...
makes me angry still to this day....stupid woman....can NOT believe the shyte she put in my chart...I ended up losing one attorney before I figured out what was going on was way worse than I'd imagined. She destroyed my credibility and any chance I had at a worker's compensation benefit or settlement...not to mention all the docs she referred me to and apparently "warned" ahead of time and I never did get those notes...but the worker's comp ins. attorneys sure got everything THEY needed....yeah If I had lots of money for a big fancy attorney and a doc to check me out and say Yeah, everything is from lifting, and firefighting, etc...if I had that kind of money I wouldn 't have n eeded to file for help in the first place!! My dept is a bunch of spineless pricks too~ esp. my fire chief....
just let me wither away and then when all was clear fired me....all my patient care reports I got back afterwards had "deficiencies" marked all over even though they'd passed along just fine before all this shyte....it became obvious they just were "backing" themselves up in case I sued or something....I know NOW WHY women in these kinds of roles end up HAVING to sue...it's just ridiculous..
.I walk away with NOTHING AND NO JOB .....or I can be the "bitch" and prove they were right all along...she didn't want to work, she just wanted a free ride or whatever...
I worked my butt of and it was MY DREAM<>.
it's pretty obvious they never learned who I was or what I was about...

[exitwound]

That's freaking horrible that you've had to go through all that, my friend! I hope that my posts can in some way help....

dd post kinda stirred up some stuff that no one has to read if they don't want to, but I had to get it out again so other ppl will know to request your own medical records NOW, or even before some painful problem happens so that you know what your doc really thinks of you and can read whether they really understood your situation on a certain visit, etc...I WISH...I WISH I had done that before I found out the HARD way that she was emotionally immature and simply all about covering her own butt and had no qualms lying AND going back and changing/forging medical records after the fact to ensure HER success and my demise...
this is what happened to me after my doc of ....maybe three years had been rxing my oxycontin for just over one year....the OC enabled me to keep working as a firefighter/paramedic and live my life....then they pulled all the cox-2 inhibitors off the market and I don't know exactly what happened other than she came at me WAY outta left field, broke HIPAA and called my husband even though I specifically told her NO as he did not keep up on my medical and prescription information or even care to know what was going on....I still don't know what they discussed....my mistake was in admitting that I was having coping problems what with suddenly NOT able to continue working through the pain, marriage and communications failing at home...basically NO support structure as far as friends, etc... as I'd moved here and just went straight into the military, then all my fire and medic training without taking a breath...no time to develop friends aside from my husband. I pulled MYSELF off duty because of neurological symptoms/deficits developing that forced me to admit to MYSELF that for the safety of the public and my crew...were I to *fail* on my job performance...well, I knew I wasn't able to do 100% or enough of what I needed to for ppl to be taken care of properly)
anyway, I suggested to my doc that she just give me a script and I'd fill it and then they could dispense it in smaller quantities...my dosages were skyrocketing because of double crush syndrome on the median nerve at the neck and at the wrist as I had also developed bilateral carpal tunnel...now had NO anti-inflammatory medications, can't take steroids, stress has increased and thus increased pain...plus I'd developed a prob with nausea and vomiting several months earlier and they could not really find a "organic" cause like an outright ulcer...it seemed obvious to someone I went to later than I was vomiting because...HELLO, my spinal cord was being compressed! anyway, I'd dose and then end up vomiting, then have to re=dose....plus my btp meds were the same way...so I was running out early and felt guilty for no reason, so I probably sounded lame in my excuses of vomiting....but yeah, I'd panic that w/d's were gonna set in at work during a call or something, so I would take MORE after throwing up to try to compensate and keep some sort of therapeutic level constant in my bloodstream...that's when I tried the patch and it made me even worse cause it lasted shorter and shorter amounts of time; before two weeks were up, a patch only lasted 36 hours!! then I had to take all my percocets or oxy 5 IRs in order to keep off w/d's and pain while I waited several hrs. for the new patch to kick in...
makes me angry still to this day....stupid woman....can NOT believe the shyte she put in my chart...I ended up losing one attorney before I figured out what was going on was way worse than I'd imagined. She destroyed my credibility and any chance I had at a worker's compensation benefit or settlement...not to mention all the docs she referred me to and apparently "warned" ahead of time and I never did get those notes...but the worker's comp ins. attorneys sure got everything THEY needed....yeah If I had lots of money for a big fancy attorney and a doc to check me out and say Yeah, everything is from lifting, and firefighting, etc...if I had that kind of money I wouldn 't have n eeded to file for help in the first place!! My dept is a bunch of spineless pricks too~ esp. my fire chief....
just let me wither away and then when all was clear fired me....all my patient care reports I got back afterwards had "deficiencies" marked all over even though they'd passed along just fine before all this shyte....it became obvious they just were "backing" themselves up in case I sued or something....I know NOW WHY women in these kinds of roles end up HAVING to sue...it's just ridiculous..
.I walk away with NOTHING AND NO JOB .....or I can be the "bitch" and prove they were right all along...she didn't want to work, she just wanted a free ride or whatever...
I worked my butt of and it was MY DREAM<>.
it's pretty obvious they never learned who I was or what I was about...

[TTD]

"Bronchodilator activity, and anti-histaminic and analgesic (javascript:defwindow('analgesic')) effects have been demonstrated experimentally and confirmed clinically, An antiemetic (javascript:defwindow('antiemetic')) effect, both by the apomorphine (javascript:defwindow('apomorphine')) test (javascript:defwindow('test')) and the veriloid test, has been demonstrated. Pharmacological and clinical (javascript:defwindow('clinical')) studies indicate that hydroxyzine in therapeutic (javascript:defwindow('therapeutic')) dosage (javascript:defwindow('dosage')) does not increase gastric secretion or acidity (javascript:defwindow('acidity')) and in most cases has mild antisecretory (javascript:defwindow('antisecretory')) activity. Hydroxyzine is rapidly absorbed from the gastrointestinal (javascript:defwindow('gastrointestinal')) tract (javascript:defwindow('tract')) and Atarax's clinical effects are usually noted within 15 to 30 minutes after oral (javascript:defwindow('oral')) administration."


From monograph that i can gain some insight into what it does since noone apparently listed it when they rammed it through the fda, it IS an antihistamine somewhere, my guess would have been peripheral H1 inverse agonist, but it also states that it has a mild suppresant effect on gastric acid release, which is mediated by H2 as well as proton pumps, among other things. So definitely H1 inverse agonist for now, it might have some other side reaction that coincidentally inhibits gastric acid, IE not through H2.

I looked over the molecular structure for them, the closest one i can find in activity would be cetirizine, it has the same 2 benzene rings one with a para-chlorine, same piperazine type ring as well as an alkyl chain on the piperazine nitrogen, the chain is slightly different on the 2 drugs but that shouldnt affect them much, in SAR it has all the same features as cetirizine, it might even be that one is a metabolite of the other, since the real difference is the chain, quite possible that cetirizine is a metabolite of hydroxyzine. Its a common reaction in the body to reduce an alcohol which is what is hanging off the end of hydroxyzine, so theres some basis for that theory.

As for lethargy, im not sure that histamine itself would cause you to be tired really, histamine is a stimulating inflammatory response by the immune system, definitly histamine, if acting on its own receptor subtypes H1 and H2 , would probably NOT cause sedation, but its possible the effect overall could be a tiredness.

I think you should probably try it a few times for sure, hydroxyzine seems to be an inverse H1, while i know cimetidine to be an H2 antagonist (might be inverse agonist im not sure atm), definitely those 2 are worth a try since neither one is supposed to cause sedation since there peripherally acting.

They will stop much of the side effects but some of your side effects might not be histamine related, morphine itself has metabolites that are active, and im sure some of them have activity other places than just Mu, kappa for instance would cause lethargy.

Thank you exit for being my answering machine, ke kicked my ass right over here when he saw your post.

[TTD]

Use 25mg atarax (hydroxyzine), with either 400-600mg cimetidine, those are perfectly safe amounts, so by dose alone those wont hurt you, be careful of any side reactions though, start low like the amounts i put up there, if they work you can increase them a bit.

[TTD]

Ahh you want something that will stop the tired feeling, hn the only thing i know of would be a kappa antagonist like buprenorphine might help but thats not an option for obvious reasons (mu antagonist), other than centrally acting stimulants there not much you can do to target the tired effect without knocking down the pain relief as well, some you could try that arent so bad would be phenylephrine possibly pseudoephedrine in SMALL amounts. honestly amphetamines arent going to help in this case youll feel worse, cocaine might but thats not a good suggestion.

Caffiene would perk you up but would just be a side reaction not really helping the core problem, you want either a norepinephrine agonist or reuptake inhibitor, or something that keeps your bp from dropping, since heart rate and bp can cause you to feel like you have no energy, check your blood pressure and pulse before you take anything and post back. There are things taht will help just need to know what your BP is

[exitwound]

*bump* :-) :D :D :D :D :D

[ZodiacKiller]

^ Sure, I'll have a bump....;)


ZK

[vaxn8]

Thanks, TTD, for trying to help... but that went over my head like a jet whizzing by. Wtf? Is there anything, in layman's terms, that would off-set the morphine's sedating effects? That's what I'm trying to find. The rat bastard doc gave me ritalin for 3 weeks, which was absolutely great, but he won't refill and I'm dragging my tired ass through today (and yesterday, when it ran out). Just something in the meanwhile to offset the lethargy, if you know if anything.

Sorry to be a pain, but this is freaking exhausting. No herbal stuff works, or caffeine, etc. I just miss that instant energy. Got any suggestions (that my tiny little brain can understand)? Thanks, TTD (or anyone else. And no, I don't have any crack, crank or speed [nor want it]. Thanks.)

Karen,

Ask you doc about Provigil, he/she may be ok with prescribing that. It is typically used for narcolepsy, but has several other uses (depression, fatigue, ect.). It is not a classic or controlled amphetamine-type drug and your doc may be more "okay" with giving that to you. I will tell you, it does work, I took it for a while about a year and a half ago. At the time, I was taking 180 mg methadone three times a day. I'm amazed I was even awake and moving at that dose, but during the time I took the Provigil I noticed a huge difference. I once took 2 tabs instead of one and was awake for 2 or 3 days.

[vaxn8]

Anyone else ever use Provigil and wanna share more experience(s)?

K-

Glad your doc was open to trying it and hope it works well. :) Just wanted to let ya know to be careful with the dose until you know how it affects you! Unless you don't mind staying awake several days. Personally, I hated it and just wanted to sleep. It doesn't give you a speedy feeling (didn't for me, but remember I was on a lot of done at the time). I can't even imagine what it would have done to me if I was taking it without anything else. Hope it works out for ya! For some reason, most docs are cool with writing for it, which seems kind of dumb, it just hasn't been listed as controlled... yet! :confused:

[ZodiacKiller]

Well (sorry to highjack your thread again, EW), but I had that appt today and tho he's fine w/ the Avinza... he's freaky about ritalin. So he did put me on Provigil. Only now the insurance may or may not cover, so I paid up front... $300.29. Sux, but hopefully I'll be reimbursed. Other things are tied up and just one of those days, ya know? (Feeling a bit crabby and all.) Yesterday, great. Then some bad news today, so f'k it. Won't last forever. Just returned from more vacation and things are seeming to pile up. Ugh.

Anyone else ever use Provigil and wanna share more experience(s)?

(I already read the WebMD synopsis.)

More vacation? Damn, Karen, wanna trade lives for a while? Mrs. K is a great luvah, dahling, and I'm told I'm great with kids...just kidding, of course, but I was starting to wonder where you'd buggered off to again--it's just not the same when you're not around.....:p

ZK

[exitwound]

LOL! Hopefully things will be looking up for you soon, Karen. And no worries at all about "hijacking" my thread.....you're always welcome in my threads, regardless of the topic of conversation :-)

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

recently got bumped up to the 80's i hope they work well for my pain. The 40's were alright, but obviously 80's are better. so now theres a few of us with 80's...pretty cool. How has your pain been ExitW...have the 80's still been treating you well? I noticed you said something about nightmares i too suffered from that weird nighttime side effect...since ive been taking the OC's i havent had that problem...thank God.

[exitwound]

recently got bumped up to the 80's i hope they work well for my pain. The 40's were alright, but obviously 80's are better. so now theres a few of us with 80's...pretty cool. How has your pain been ExitW...have the 80's still been treating you well? I noticed you said something about nightmares i too suffered from that weird nighttime side effect...since ive been taking the OC's i havent had that problem...thank God.

Yeah, being free of the nightmares is nice. It's amazing how, even with a small dose of morphine leftover from my days on MS Contin, I can go back to having very intense and weird nightmares again. It's like turning a light switch on/off.

I wish I could say that 3 of the 80's per day was still enough to get me by with minimal breakthrough meds. Not only do I end up taking more like 320mg's per day (four 80's instead of three) of OC, I end up having to take a lot more of my OxyIRs than prescribed on top of it to even make a dent in my extremely high pain flare levels recently.

My doc gave me an extra bottle of Oxy 5mg to try to get by, but I would burn right through than in a week if I fully medicated my pain. It has to last me at least two weeks total, or another 1.5 from now. Thankfully I have some extra OC's and should be able to use those to get me by, although my pain levels still hover dangerously close to 10 and my nausea levels are high enough that I risk vomiting incidents.....

Next month what I really need is some additional OC's....maybe 100-120 of them instead of 90, and at least 90 of the 15mg OxyIR's. I might be able to get by on 90 OC80's and 120 of the OxyIR 15's, but I'd still have to use ROP hydro and now that I am trying to be 100% APAP-free, that means I have to do CWE's which are not 100% efficient.

I'm waiting on a ROP refill right now in fact, 120 of the 10/325 Norcos which I'll then CWE to produce around 1,000mg of hydro in the extracted water. At the rate I've been going lately, that will last me about a week at best.... =/

[exitwound]

The simple point is, I can't get much use out of opium or morphine anymore, despite the large opium harvest I'm having this summer. What I really need is the high-end opiates: oxycodone, hydromorphone, fentanyl, maybe demerol. My doc is always one step behind my pain, and the supplemental meds I used to use (ROP hydro, homegrown opium/online-ordered pod tea) are no longer of much help. I can't risk taking more than ~60mg of mscontin per day because of the nausea/vomiting issue and the hydro barely scratches the surface.....

It's a damn frustrating place to be. MJ helps but that's so damn expensive and it can only do so much pain-wise. The rest, I need serious heavy-lifter opiates and they're so hard to come by. There really ought to be some kind of compassionate mercy service that offers unlimited free opiates to chronic pain sufferers; after all, none of us wants to take more than we need, tolerance and vomiting are serious problems that we don't want any more than we want to suffer through intolerable pain. Sigh.....it's a fucked up world.

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

something you mentioned that i too hate is the fact that sometimes we need to take so much shit that we are at the nausea level. Last night i had to take so much shit i was just waaaayyy to f'd up. All i wanted was to be pain free and have a nice mellow euphoria to help me drift off but the amount i took caused nausea and a strange vibe which just kinda goofed up my euphoria which in turn is what helps me sleep. That was the first time had that reaction with Oxy, it was also the highest dose i have ever had, so i dont know. Sometimes us Chronic Pain dudes just cant get a break even from opiates. I dont know if this sounds f'd up but sometimes Opiates are like a good friend or a chick, in that they usually are great to be around they can make your day better, help you get through life...but on the other hand they can be a bitch or like a punch to the gut. Alright im way to opiated at this point i better stop before i wake up in the morning read this and wonder what the hell i was talking about last night. peace i hope your feelin good...and i hope the opiates are getting you to where you need to be.