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DCBA
05-06-2009, 07:02 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Desomorphine.svg/200px-Desomorphine.svg.png

Desomorphine, 10xmorphine made @ home from codeine is rapidly growing in the underground of russia.

Drug police RB is alarmed with growth of Desomorphine usage


January 21, Ufa, "Bashinform", Elena Makushina
The number of cases of Desomorphine consumption grew up in Bashkortostan. Desomorphine is a home-made drug, which components can be freely purchased at drugstores. News-service of Federal Drug Circulation Control Service in RB reports in 2007 drug police has revealed 70 cases of Desomorphine production, storage and sales - four times more than in 2006.and from the wiki


This drug has attracted recent attention in Russia due to an upsurge in clandestine production, presumably due to its relatively simple synthesis from codeine.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desomorphine#cite_note-3) It is prepared from α-chlorocodide, which is itself obtained by reacting thionyl chloride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thionyl_chloride) with codeine. By catalytic reduction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_%28chemistry%29), α-chlorocodide gives dihydrodesoxycodeine, which yields desomorphine on demethylation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demethylation).[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desomorphine#cite_note-4)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desomorphine#cite_note-5)

not asking how, but i am asking if this is so easy as is said? and available to?

Papa Verine
05-06-2009, 07:04 PM
I don't know... but I'm real curious to find out from one of our resident smart people.

DCBA
05-06-2009, 07:35 PM
me too. why didnt i follow chemistry.. shit :(

alowishus
05-06-2009, 08:02 PM
I really don't take anything from wiki as law.... ;)
It was most likely written by a former member here, called Woods!! :rolleyes:

Why don't you post this in the chem forum, so the brains can take a look and chime in?

DCBA
05-06-2009, 08:06 PM
I really don't take anything from wiki as law.... ;)
It was most likely written by a former member here, called Woods!! :rolleyes:

Why don't you post this in the chem forum, so the brains can take a look and chime in?

thats not just wiki.. just look at its growth at russia..

Yeah, your right, if any of you mods can do that, my thanks in advance..

alowishus
05-06-2009, 08:38 PM
I'm not saying it's not, I just really have found wiki to be about as reliable as fox news.

Like saying "OC is a morphine type drug", that statement is wrong on so many levels.

Paregoric Kid
05-07-2009, 12:27 AM
I was just reading about desomorphine yesterday. could you get the equipment for the catalytic reduction from a catalytic converter? what homemade options are there for demethylation? of course if you can already do demethylation then you could just turn the codeine into morphine and take it as is or make it into a different goody.

DCBA
05-07-2009, 01:19 PM
I was just reading about desomorphine yesterday. could you get the equipment for the catalytic reduction from a catalytic converter? what homemade options are there for demethylation? of course if you can already do demethylation then you could just turn the codeine into morphine and take it as is or make it into a different goody.

Maybe the demethylation of dihydrodesoxycodeine to desomorphine is less sensible than from codeine to morphine, maybe just a reflux in a strong acid will work.. dont know..

What is know for now (here) is:

1 - Codeine + thionyl chloride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thionyl_chloride) = α-chlorocodide

2 - α-chlorocodide + catalytic reduction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_%28chemistry%29) = dihydrodesoxycodeine

3 - dihydrodesoxycodeine + demethylation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demethylation) = desomorphine.

Maybe this will be the next illegal opiate on the streets... in russia is allready began.. And codeine is allways sold OTC in small doses.. if the procedure gives a good yield than with the potency of 10xmorphine that ensures lots of doses.. Heroin is just 2x or 3x morphine.. 10x is more profitable..
And home users could sustain their habit if they could do this at home.
For example, i can get 1gr of codeine for 2.5€ if the yield was even just 50% then i would get 0.5gr of desomorphine, and because the normal dose is 3 to 6mg per IV then i would get 83 to 166 doses (equivalent to h bags) from just 2.5€ of codeine.. theres no heroin in the world that can compete with that prices.. not even pods can..
Even if just get the low dose of codeine pills (8mg to 16mgs) they would be worth it cause after converting those mgs per pill are enought for more than just 1 or even 2 doses..
If this is easy done then its a fucking revolution for some junkies..

Restharrow
05-07-2009, 01:22 PM
Is this the same "Homebake" that an old friend from New Zealand told me about.

DCBA
05-07-2009, 01:35 PM
Is this the same "Homebake" that an old friend from New Zealand told me about.
no

Mayo
05-07-2009, 04:01 PM
...with the potency of 10xmorphine that ensures lots of doses.. Heroin is just 2x or 3x morphine.. 10x is more profitable..


don't rely on this type of info to determine the effect or high you will get from a drug.
remember, they say bupe is many times stronger than morphine too.
not to mention the 'rush' factor so many H users desire.
being classified as stronger than morphine doesn't make it a 'stronger' or better drug.

Seedy
05-07-2009, 04:23 PM
Is this the same "Homebake" that an old friend from New Zealand told me about.

That's made be reacting morphine with AA. As far as i know the typical result is some diacetylmorphine (h), some left over morphine, and a few different inbetween molecules (3 & 6 monoacetylmorphine and such I think). I hear it's a pretty full spectrum buzz. I'l have the oppurtunity to try some soon but i don't (and hopefully won't) shoot up so I'll either have to plug it or react it with something to make it smokable. Anyone know how to do that? Maybe i'll ask in another thread.

DCBA
05-08-2009, 01:37 AM
don't rely on this type of info to determine the effect or high you will get from a drug.
remember, they say bupe is many times stronger than morphine too.
not to mention the 'rush' factor so many H users desire.
being classified as stronger than morphine doesn't make it a 'stronger' or better drug.

Yeah, but i would be more than willing to participate in home trials in order to check its potency.. But its showing in the black market exponentianly so it must be good.. or at least it has its place..
and hey if you can convert the easy adquired codeine that i can get into a thing that is more powerful than morphine by using just home products is more than atractive for me.. even if it was morphine it would be attractive (but the AA and pyridine are hard to find and pyridine is can cause cancer...) but when you speak of a drug that is like 10x morhphine that is simpler to make than the NZ home bake .... xi.. thats a dream come true for me.. and other responsable junkies... And even for the black market too...
Imagine if desomorphine starts a trend of labs for doing it pretty much like methamphetamine labs trend started.. After all you can get the codeine and other chemicals all inside the country and near you so this can be really big..

and the high must be very good, especially for IV, as oxymorphone is one the best IV drugs of all opiates. something tells me that desomorphine should bear some effects..

DCBA
05-13-2009, 09:02 AM
just upping this thread... i think it deserves more... a least i wished to..

ryan
05-13-2009, 09:06 AM
FYI about the new zeland homebake:

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/codeine.homebake.labs.html

Papa Verine
05-13-2009, 09:15 AM
Recorsinol??? Where are you???

Us junkies are getting antsy over here...

Ickyuck
05-13-2009, 09:18 AM
Recorsinol??? Where are you???

Us junkies are getting antsy over here...

I know, right?!

DCBA
05-19-2009, 11:53 PM
any chemical wiz? please, please... even if it just general talk, not recipes... please someone guide us on this.... all us are hungry for something like this that just allows us to say "fuck you" to the powerful forces that rulled the narc trade..

Restharrow
05-20-2009, 01:46 PM
FYI about the new zeland homebake:

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/codeine.homebake.labs.html
Thank you! Good article.

Seedy
05-20-2009, 04:08 PM
^^ yeah, very interesting. A mate came round with some fresh homebake the other day. He shot me up with 30mg worth (bad I know, I've overstepped my mark) - I barely felt the shot - no rush, anyway, but quite a nice buz when it kicked in. I tried smoking the leftovers off foil which I definitely felt. Good to try it but far to expensive to make a habit of it, maybe i just swap the occasional oxy I get every weekend for some.... to smoke.

borohydride
02-04-2010, 04:22 AM
The Russians call this drug 'The Crocodile'. It's made in a similar manner to methamphetamine (i.e. Red Phosporous & Iodine) but with a few twists. First codeine is extracted from OTC products (loads of them in Russia!) and dissilved in dH2O. Iodine crystals are added and the mixture is heated to reflux. After a couple of hours, the RP is added and the mixture refluxed for 24-36 hours (everyone has their own route). An A/B reaction is carried out and the product is salted using H2SO4.
It's NOT pure and it's NOT clean. It IS strong and very cheap indeed. It's also VERY addictive. You will end up shooting it every 3-4 hours and good luck when you run out.
See all the junkies hanging arond Moscow and think about using it ;-)

euphoricontin17
08-13-2010, 10:42 AM
I figured I'd bump this after bugsy's recent phenominal thread about heroin in Russia. It seems quite a few people's interests have been piqued, I know mine has. Anyone else have anything to add on this seemingly bittersweet revelation of desomorphine? Such a shame IMO, a great, potent, relatively easily made opiate is finally in reach, but it costs you your health and body in a month... Wonder if it can be purified at all?

tui
08-13-2010, 10:50 AM
^
After watching the fucking horrific video Bugsy posted, I wouldn't touch this shit with a ten foot pole.

Woody Bear
08-13-2010, 08:57 PM
Purification would be easy. But finding journal references, now that's the impossible bit.

The journal references for this come in basically two parts:
Codeine to alpha-chlorocodide

And then
alpha-chlorocodide to dihydrodesoxymorphine-D

The reference for the synthesis of codeine to alpha-chlorocodide is: (Small and Cohen, J. A. C. S. 52, 2214, 1931)
But if you look it up, you'll find that the article was called "Desoxycodeine Studies. I The Desoxycodeines", the authors are Lyndon F. Small and Frank L. Cohen, it was published in vol. 53 (not 52) of the Journal of the American Chemical Society on page 2214, it was published in 1931.

However, that article does not describe the synthesis of codeine to alpha-chlorocodide, it does however state that they prepared their supplies of alpha-chlorocodide the same way that Freund did, except that they ran the reaction for 2 hours instead of 24. The reference Small gave was:
Freund, J. prakt. Chem., 101, 23 (1921)

Which means:
Author = Freund
Journal = Journal of Practical Chemistry
Volume = 101
Page = 23
Year Published = 1921

However, this journal is impossible to find. Small also mentioned that thionyl chloride could be used to produce alpha-chlorocodide from codeine, he said that it had worse yields, and it was written up in another impossible to find journal:
Wieland and Kappelmaier, Ann., 382, 337 (1911)

Which means:
Author = Wieland and Kappelmaier
Journal = Annuals of Chemistry?
Volume = 382
Page = 337
Year Published = 1911

However if you already have alpha-chlorocodide then a good reference to convert it into dihydrodesoxymorphine-D is a US Patent 1980972, by Lyndon F. Small, "Morphine Derivative and Processes for its Preparation" date 1934.

Here Small describes how alpha-chlorocodide is hydrogenated with palladium on barium sulfate, which converts it into dihydrodesoxycodeine-D. He then describes the process of converting dihydrodesoxycodeine-D into dihydrodesoxymorphine-D by demethylating it with 48% hydrobromic acid.

Now I can see how if the Russian codeine to alpha-chlorocodide synthesis with thionyl chloride works, then hydroiodic acid could be a workable subsitute for hydrobromic acid.

So then apart from the codeine, you'd need an industrial lithium-thionyl chloride cell battery for it's thionyl chloride, plus red phosphorus from match books and iodine to make the hydroiodic acid. It could work, but without the journal references for the codeine to alpha-chlorocodide syntheis, you'd be shooting in the dark. It might be a case of mixing the two together then heating them for 2 hours. You'd have to do an extraction after that of course.

I'm not actually sure what the Russian desomorphine cooks are actually producing. Codeine is reduced into dihydrocodeine, not alpha-chlorocodide. And hydrobromic acid or hydroiodic acid act as demethylation agents which convert codeine-type opioids into morphine-type opioids. But I've read that codeine can't be converted into morphine by this route, because it doesn't work or else the yields are impossibly low, which is why the Aus/ NZ home bakers used pyridine.

So what ever those Russian guys are making, HI acid alone will not produce desomorphine from codeine. So unless they are going the whole route, with the thionyl chloride batteries, they are just blindly mixing chemicals and hoping it will convert the codeine into something else.

Whatever it is though, all they have to do to clean it up after the reaction, is raise the pH of the solution with sodium carbonate (washing soda) upto pH 10-11. Then extract into toluene. Then separate and dry the toluene then gas with hydrogen chloride gas. Then filter out the crystals and dry them fully for a couple of days before use.

Bugsy
08-25-2010, 07:03 AM
I'm not actually sure what the Russian desomorphine cooks are actually producing. Codeine is reduced into dihydrocodeine, not alpha-chlorocodide. And hydrobromic acid or hydroiodic acid act as demethylation agents which convert codeine-type opioids into morphine-type opioids. But I've read that codeine can't be converted into morphine by this route, because it doesn't work or else the yields are impossibly low, which is why the Aus/ NZ home bakers used pyridine.

So what ever those Russian guys are making, HI acid alone will not produce desomorphine from codeine. So unless they are going the whole route, with the thionyl chloride batteries, they are just blindly mixing chemicals and hoping it will convert the codeine into something else.

Whatever it is though, all they have to do to clean it up after the reaction, is raise the pH of the solution with sodium carbonate (washing soda) upto pH 10-11. Then extract into toluene. Then separate and dry the toluene then gas with hydrogen chloride gas. Then filter out the crystals and dry them fully for a couple of days before use.

Absolutely right Woody bear...I hear from dozen of good chemists that reacting codeine with red phosphorus/iodine (reaction usually used to turn ephedrine into methamphetamine) will NOT yeild anything like desomorphine!!! Russian makers of "crocodile" are terribly mistaken! It is probably more like a toxic coctail of dihydrocodeine, some unreacted codeine and it's various partially converted codeine-phosphorus and codeine-iodine derivatives. All this stuff together will produce much stronger high taken IV than codeine alone but will likely kill you within a year or so. That's exactly what happens in Russia now.

danny
08-25-2010, 08:07 AM
maybe worth having a pop at it properly, sounds like its got potential if the side effects that make peoples limbs rot and heads deform are just a result of brewing it up in your kitchen....
still like to see a few other people have a run with it tho' before i would after watching bugsys horror films...

mainline
08-25-2010, 12:34 PM
I'm not actually sure what the Russian desomorphine cooks are actually producing. Codeine is reduced into dihydrocodeine, not alpha-chlorocodide. And hydrobromic acid or hydroiodic acid act as demethylation agents which convert codeine-type opioids into morphine-type opioids. But I've read that codeine can't be converted into morphine by this route, because it doesn't work or else the yields are impossibly low, which is why the Aus/ NZ home bakers used pyridine.

So what ever those Russian guys are making, HI acid alone will not produce desomorphine from codeine. So unless they are going the whole route, with the thionyl chloride batteries, they are just blindly mixing chemicals and hoping it will convert the codeine into something else.

Whatever it is though, all they have to do to clean it up after the reaction, is raise the pH of the solution with sodium carbonate (washing soda) upto pH 10-11. Then extract into toluene. Then separate and dry the toluene then gas with hydrogen chloride gas. Then filter out the crystals and dry them fully for a couple of days before use.




I thought they were using the batteries. Mayeb I'm wrong and making things up in my head. < thats probably it. haha

WalkingLucid
09-07-2010, 01:21 PM
I'ma start hitting the books. Wish me luck. :)

borohydride
09-18-2010, 09:32 AM
The Russian makers only get a low yield or an impure product BUT codeine phosphate capsules are about $1.50/50x25mg so the start material is cheap. The exact route varies from maker to maker but they all seem to do more or less this:

1-Codeine + SOCl2 ---> α-Chlorocodide + HCl + SO2

2-α-Chlorocodide + I2 ---> 7,8 diiodo α-Chlorocodide

3-7,8 diiodo α-Chlorocodide + HI ----> desomorphine

Basically steps 2 & 3 are done in 1 pot. The iodine adds across the 7,8 double-bond in the same way Br adds across a double bond. The chemist then adds P to make HI which is a reducing agent. It removes the Is. The HI also demethylates the 3-methoxy. Looking at a list of the stuff formed, 6 or 7 impurities are found in varying amounts. Yield of product is about 30% at best. Of course, the stuff is x10 morphine so about 4x heroin (the BNF directs doctors that diamorphine is x2.5 morphine in medical uses).
Now, the product has a bare phenol on it so it cannot be smoked. One can readily esterify this compound (acetyl ester, nicotinic ester and so on) so it's BP becomes sufficiently low.
I will do a full test including pictures if enough people ask me to. It's about £300 of stuff I will use and I have no interest in taking the product... or selling... or giving away.

borohydride
09-18-2010, 11:15 AM
Now, I notice that the OFFICIAL synthesis from codeine goes something like this:


React SOCl2 with codeine, purify with 2M HCl then precipitate with Sodium Carbonate extract the amorphous precipitate rapidly into ether. Repeat, then wash with cold ethanol, with removes further inpurities. This give a-chlorocodide freebase.

Five grams of a-chlorocodide suspended in 100 ml of water was brought into solution by addition of 37% hydrochloric acid and hydrogenated in the presence of 1.05 g. of palladium-barium sulfate. The absorption amounted to 2.27 moles of hydrogen most of which was taken up in the first hour. Expect it to be finished in under 11 hours.

By precipitation with ammonia and extraction with ether, 1.5 g. of Dihydrodesoxycodeine-D hemihydrate was obtained.

A solution of 1.5 g. of dihydrodesoxycodeine-D in 4.5 ml of hydriodic acid, sp. gr. 1.7 was boiled vigorously for three minutes.

To the cooled solution, water (about 15 cc.) was added slowly with scratching until crystals no longer separated. The mixture was warmed nearly to boiling, whereby the crystals became pure white and more granular. The yield of dihydrodesoxymorphine-D hydriodide was 1.73 g.


I would just point out that the Russians don't use hydrogenation equipment. Its all done using VERY homemade apparatus. The above writeup uses HI to cleave the methyl ether BUT I would suggest that HBr in GAA @ 125C in a bomb would be higher yielding as the ether bridge will not be affected. Although the HI salt is formed, I would question it's usability. Freebasing into ether or THF & forming the sulfate salt would surely make the salt that passes the BBB efficiently?

Woody Bear
09-20-2010, 05:19 PM
Hey borohydride, got a reference for the a-chlorocodide from codeine synth?

retrogradeamnesia
09-20-2010, 09:44 PM
LMAO easier to just cook the mef, sell it and buy your gear....

two words, GERMAN PATENTS

Woody Bear
09-21-2010, 02:43 AM
RE: GERMAN PATENTS

Basically, a Chemistry journal article is like a cake recipe, and a patent is like the ingredients list on the back of a cake. Not the same thing at all.

For a start I only read English. Secondly, patents are not accurate writeups of experiments, like what you read in Chemistry Journals. Instead patents are all about claiming ownership over an idea, and they are almost totally filled with conjecture rather than facts.

More often than not, if you were to follow what you read in a chemistry patent, the outcome would be different, and may not even work at all. This is because the patent authors did not try everything that they are claiming. Instead they tried a couple things out, and then said, "The rest will work", and bunged it all into a patent.

So while there are interesting things in patents, they are a secondary and poorer information source than a chemistry journal. As if you read of a write-up in a chemistry journal, and do the experiment exactly as written, you can be 99% sure that your yield will match the journal authors.

retrogradeamnesia
09-21-2010, 02:52 AM
Well I was tryn to nudge you down the right path..guessn you must have never seen any of the German morphinan derivatives patents? more like cookn a hot pot than baking a cake (assuming you can even get the ingerdients let alone equipemnt to bake this cake) :P

enough said, wont mention it again...

Woody Bear
09-21-2010, 03:10 AM
Using English language to search for products sold in Germany is an exercise in futility, as they are not the same language and have different words.

I do use Google Scholar to search for chemistry reports. And searching for USA patents is easy. But a Google patent search for Desomorphine didn't turn up any German Patents that I could see.

So if you've got a link to those German Patents or a German patent search page then great. But just saying, "German Patents" without providing a link or any more information is not helpful.

borohydride
09-21-2010, 08:04 AM
LMAO easier to just cook the mef, sell it and buy your gear....

two words, GERMAN PATENTS

Patents only give minimal practical information - they don't want it to be easy to repeat. They just give enough to protect their new techniques. Research papers are better.

Bugsy
10-06-2010, 01:32 AM
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100603/159292501.html

this gives short story about desomorphine illicit production in Russia.

borohydride
10-09-2010, 08:08 AM
Thanks for the link - VERY interesting. Now, I think it's fair to say that hydrogenation is not being used by whoever was performing there synthesis using a boxful of rubbish left for the binmen!!! The only 'problem' with the P/I synthesis of desomorphine is that there is a mixture of products. These include failure to deprotect the ether, loss of the phenolic -OH, breaking of oxygen bridge, addition of 6-I, N-demethylation & a mixture of the former list. GC/MS showed an unidentified fragment at 284 (I think). I spent ages trying to figure it out on paper. I could not for the life of me find a simple answer to that one! It's too light to have I or even Cl left on it BUT too heavy to be anything like ether breakage.
Oh, one thing I also read was that they found small traces of 6 methyl desomorphine. Now THAT says a lot. I mean, either the 3 or N methyl are being introduced at the 6! It's a good practical synthesis to study if only so you can see just how many side-products are formed. Makes the few products formed in the P/I2 reduction look simple (aziridine is the only one to worry about. Most people DON'T worry about it, but it's not fun stuff).

B-()

duck
10-09-2010, 08:14 AM
i love reading all things related to drugs and crime in Russia...so engaging.

borohydride
10-09-2010, 10:11 AM
Hey borohydride, got a reference for the a-chlorocodide from codeine synth?

I have just asked a friend to get hold of & translate some Russian articles on how they actually do it over there. The replacement of the 6-OH with a 6-Cl using SOCl2 is a really wide-reaching reaction. I don't have Vogels (PTOC) in front of me, but the general route they give works just fine.
I have also wondered about producing hydrocodone, replacing the C=O with a C=S (ketone to thioketone) using PS5 & then reducing the thioketone; there are simply LOADS of ways of doing that. (Sodium) Borohydride is a very effective one ;-) This isn't an idea to increase yield necessarily, but a way of varying the chemicals/equipment needed. Also means that different bees can go for the route they prefer.

opiomagik
12-02-2010, 09:22 PM
I have just asked a friend to get hold of & translate some Russian articles on how they actually do it over there. The replacement of the 6-OH with a 6-Cl using SOCl2 is a really wide-reaching reaction. I don't have Vogels (PTOC) in front of me, but the general route they give works just fine.
I have also wondered about producing hydrocodone, replacing the C=O with a C=S (ketone to thioketone) using PS5 & then reducing the thioketone; there are simply LOADS of ways of doing that. (Sodium) Borohydride is a very effective one ;-) This isn't an idea to increase yield necessarily, but a way of varying the chemicals/equipment needed. Also means that different bees can go for the route they prefer.

I have thought about this on more than one occasion. NaBH4 is the reducing agent I would use as well. I have often wondered if what the russians are making is not exactly desomorphine. Also, much like impurities are washed away from meth in the end, I do not believe chemicals such as phosphorous and iodine are washed - very, very dangerous. We know what compounds like fluorophosphates can do, shit organophosphorous is used in insecticides, now even though these are not products I would definitely still want to wash phosphorous and iodine residuals from the end product..

Woody Bear
12-03-2010, 05:04 PM
I have thought about this on more than one occasion. NaBH4 is the reducing agent I would use as well. I have often wondered if what the russians are making is not exactly desomorphine. Also, much like impurities are washed away from meth in the end, I do not believe chemicals such as phosphorous and iodine are washed - very, very dangerous. We know what compounds like fluorophosphates can do, shit organophosphorous is used in insecticides, now even though these are not products I would definitely still want to wash phosphorous and iodine residuals from the end product..
I'd also want the desomorphine to be washed or better yet extracted. Consuming the reaction mixture along with the desomorphine is extremely dangerous and fatal in many instances. However, I'm not convinced that it's the phosphorus or iodine that's to blame. Iodine is very safe, and apart from the Japanese, most people are deficient in it. Consuming 50 mg iodine per day makes most people who take it feel very health after the 3 month period where your body uses it to flush out the toxic fluorine and bromine: Source: Video presentation by Dr. David Brownstein (http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/videos/#BROWNSTEIN)

Repeately injecting pill fragments would block up capillaries and cause tissue death, and it's tissue death which leads to rotting limbs and fatal toxic shock. This is what I believe is responsible for most of the desomorphine deaths: pill fragments in the shots, plus overacidification of the blood, if the pH isn't adjusted upwards after the reaction.

Also although phosphorus can be used to make toxic organo phosphates, inorganic red phosphorus does not carry near as much of the risk that organo-phosphate compounds do. And the red phosphorus found on matchbooks, or bought to make desomorphine does not cause phossy-jaw, like vapors from white phosphorus used to do, before the match companies switched from white phosphorus to red phosphorus to make matches with.

Here's a couple quotes from wikipedia's page on Phosphorus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus#Biological_role)

An average adult human contains about 0.7 kg of phosphorus, about 85-90% of which is present in bones and teeth in the form of apatite, and the remainder in soft tissues and extracellular fluids (~1%). The phosphorus content increases from about 0.5 weight% in infancy to 0.65-1.1 weight% in adults. Average phosphorus concentration in the blood is about 0.4 g/L, about 70% of that is organic and 30% inorganic phosphates.[39] A well-fed adult in the industrialized world consumes and excretes about 1-3 g of phosphorus per day, with consumption in the form of inorganic phosphate and phosphorus-containing biomolecules such as nucleic acids and phospholipids; and excretion almost exclusively in the form of urine phosphate ion. Only about 0.1% of body phosphate circulates in the blood, but this amount reflects the amount of phosphate available to soft tissue cells.


Organic compounds of phosphorus form a wide class of materials, some of which are extremely toxic. Fluorophosphate esters are among the most potent neurotoxins known. A wide range of organophosphorus compounds are used for their toxicity to certain organisms as pesticides (herbicides, insecticides, fungicides, etc.) and weaponised as nerve agents. Most inorganic phosphates are relatively nontoxic and essential nutrients. For environmentally adverse effects of phosphates see eutrophication and algal blooms.

Because the red phosphorus used in desomorphine production is inorganic, and the average diet contains 1-3 g phosphorus per day, I do not believe that it is the phosphorus that's to blame for the desomorphine deaths, even if peope were consuming the reaction mixture. Red phosphorus is insoluble in water, so if the reaction mixture was properly filtered, then the amount consumed would be far far less than the 0.4 g phosphorus amount that you have already got in each Litre of your blood.

SuperJunky
12-03-2010, 07:11 PM
pill fragments in the shots, plus overacidification of the blood, if the pH isn't adjusted upwards after the reaction.


Pill fragments are a bitch, I have numb limbs due to getting careless on this one.

Also, Over-acidification of the blood can cause serious problems not to mention a painful shot. Tooth aches, in the case of HCL or CITRIC it can cause blood clots in the rig or worst yet in the arm... Ascorbic (vitamin C) on the other hand seems harmless. I watched a documentary the other day about "what you eat matters" and one guy IV'ed a half kilo of vitamin C in less than 24 hours to check for toxicity as well to debunk the too much vitamin c gives you kidney stones theory. Other than being a little queasy and dehydrated he was fine. Being the needle freak I am I injected somewhere between three and four grams of pure ascorbic acid (ACS grade, not USP) and was expecting black blood in the rig, I was suprised to find the blood was actually a dark pink color at the end of the shot where the blood from registering had settled to the bottom of the 10ml barrel. I was expecting achy bones and godawful tooth pain the next morning but nope. Ascorbic acid injections are used in place of chemo in some anticancer regiments practiced in mexico, so I think it has more to do w/ what excess acid ends up in your blood than the quantity. 10 extra mgs of pure citric is hell, burns all the way to the heart, methamphetamine hydrobromide burns like hell when injected even if there is no excess HBr remaining.

As far as a reducing agent I'd go w/ sodium borohydride or if that proved to weak LAAH (lithium aluminum anhydride) is another possibility.

borohydride
12-04-2010, 06:07 AM
Because the red phosphorus used in desomorphine production is inorganic, and the average diet contains 1-3 g phosphorus per day, I do not believe that it is the phosphorus that's to blame for the desomorphine deaths, even if peope were consuming the reaction mixture. Red phosphorus is insoluble in water, so if the reaction mixture was properly filtered, then the amount consumed would be far far less than the 0.4 g phosphorus amount that you have already got in each Litre of your blood.

Red phosphorus used to be used as RAT POISON! P in the form of phosphates yes, as the pure material, NO!

borohydride
12-05-2010, 11:10 AM
^Just to clarify, the LD50 for red phosphorous is quite high, but samples are usually contaminated with at least some white phosphorous (30mg is fatal, folks). The toxic symptoms seen from Desomorphine in Russia do indeed sound similar to P poisoning... nasty, nasty, nasty...

Indy
12-05-2010, 01:57 PM
Yeah it's crazy isn't it? There are a lot of things that aren't really dangerous in inorganic or elemental form. Elemental lead isn't even that toxic, but when you get salts that are more easily absorbed by the body it starts getting a lot more toxic. IIRC even elemental mercury isn't that toxic on its own, but in the body it gets converted to mercury salts.

borohydride
12-12-2010, 11:06 AM
I was under the impression that RP is now pretty hard to get in the US? Now, hypophosphorous acid MAY work here, but it seems like a messy route that forms a LOT of side-products.

Anyone considered:

-Rearrangement to hydrocodone
-Clemmenen reduction to desoxycodeine
-Deprotection of methyl ether

OK, OK, it's more work, but the yield will be higher AND you will be able to keep out iodinated products & other junk...

borohydride
03-06-2011, 08:47 AM
I've talked with a Russian guy and it IS the RP/I route that is used to make desomorphine over there. The product is very impure and quite toxic. Seems to be killing a lot of people, causing cancer & so on. BAD. It's a shame since a slight alteration to the route will result in a much purer product. The thing is, it's people making it in their kitchens.

surreal
03-06-2011, 09:39 AM
some proper recrystallisation wouldn't help, maybe?

btw: great, great, GREAT Thread!! :)

thanks!
(even if codeine isn't freely available here, let alone OTC, all you lucky bastages, you ;) )

borohydride
03-06-2011, 11:40 AM
No, in this case there are impurites that cannot be A/B extracted. Partial crystalization SURE, but best to avoid them in the first place. Things like the 2-iodo derivative & stuff missing the phenolic -OH. I even noted that the researchers claimed methyldesorphine was in there - how I do not know (it's VERY potent). There was always an unidentified compound with a MW of 267 - I puzzled long & hard on that one...

surreal
03-06-2011, 01:15 PM
ah, ok, i see.

so that mentioned thionyl chloride - step is crucial before the I2 and the HI reduction, right?
i'm no chemist of any grade, so this question will probably sound pretty dumb - just trying to understand

edit:
ps.: do you maybe know the molar weight of a-chlorocodide?
just to get the amounts for the first step right.
but in the end it doesn't matter, to complicated for a home bake,
palladium-barium sulfate, hydrogenation ... no clue ...
:)
and still no codeine anyway, what a pitty

borohydride
03-07-2011, 04:05 AM
Do I know it's MW off hand? No, I would have to work it out like anyone else. No, I think the vital step is to halogenate the double-bond before the RP/I. I think they usually do this by adding the I2 first, but then you get odd things like aromatic halogenation. TBH, the yields are so low that I WOULD go down the patent route of thionyl chloride, hydrogenation & then demethylation. They get 84% that way. RP/I is more like 15-20% avec dangerous crap.

surreal
03-07-2011, 12:08 PM
sure, would have been a bit tough to expect, so no problem anyway - maybe it's in the Merck Index.

too complicated by now this thread will anyway get a nice place in the big treasure box :)

thanks again!

borohydride
03-07-2011, 01:35 PM
US Patent 2694067 is everything you need to know. They made a mistake on the images, there is no 7-8 double-bond left but maybe back then it was a case of calculating from H2 uptake & their catalyst or some side-reaction made them underestimate (it was 1952 after all - no HPLC, NMR and so on).

Nagelfar
07-22-2011, 09:50 PM
I'm not saying it's not, I just really have found wiki to be about as reliable as fox news.

Like saying "OC is a morphine type drug", that statement is wrong on so many levels.

Well oxycodone is a morphine type drug, so it's right on at least as many levels as whatever levels it is "wrong" on. I don't understand why people separate codinones from morphinones when codeine is just an ester of morphine itself: 3-methyl-morphine (just like how heroin is 3 & 6-acetyl-morphine).

mainline
07-23-2011, 12:01 AM
Well oxycodone is a morphine type drug, so it's right on at least as many levels as whatever levels it is "wrong" on. I don't understand why people separate codinones from morphinones when codeine is just an ester of morphine itself: 3-methyl-morphine (just like how heroin is 3 & 6-acetyl-morphine).




Well, duh. I assume most people(users) seperate -codones from -morphones is because of the subjective difference in effects. Also, You can call any opioid a "morphine type drug", and most mediction inserts say just that. (ie; XXX is a morphine type analgesic, or XXX may cause dependance of the morphine type. I think they even say that about tramadol)

Codiene is basically Morphine in a wheelchair, and I don't think many people sperate those two very much, unless speaking in terms of potency. Calling Oxycodone(and hydrocodne, ect) however, a Morphine type drug isn't really accurate. I think that term "morphine type" is used as a way of describing other opioids, because the general public is familiar with what morphine is and what it's used for.

borohydride
07-27-2011, 08:11 AM
I guess it's supposed to differentiate between prodrugs like codeine and active compounds like morphine. Having said which, oxycodone is active in itself so it's not a very accurate term. An oxygen (and maybe a nitrogen) at the 14 position seems to allow binding at the MOR even without a phenolic (or carboxamido) at the 3. 3-deoxyetorphine is almost as potent as it's parent (it's used to knock out giraffes if I remember correctly...)

MushroomMan
06-23-2013, 01:21 AM
Why was borohydride banned?

40mgtoFreedom
06-23-2013, 01:39 AM
for necroing old threads

Tea Time
06-23-2013, 03:52 AM
for necroing old threads

:D:D:D

Thanks dude. I needed a good laugh.

taytoechip
06-23-2013, 07:06 AM
for necroing old threads


Wahahaaha yes, nothing like a laugh first thing in the morning. Thanks 40.

Der Alte Krieger
06-23-2013, 07:28 AM
Why was borohydride banned?

I'm not sure.

He just couldnt't let things alone, I feel bad for him, I think he's a good person, he just couldn't help himself, I guess.

What got him 86ed for good was sending his email address to everybody via VMs, conceled in a chemical formula.

jdub
06-23-2013, 09:30 PM
I wanna know wtf happened to papa verine. He posted about going through some shit and that was it. Hope he's ok.

Ryouge
06-23-2013, 11:48 PM
Boro threatened JM or something.

Tea Time
06-24-2013, 08:32 AM
I wanna know wtf happened to papa verine. He posted about going through some shit and that was it. Hope he's ok.

I've asked about Papa V before too and no one knew anything or had spoken to him. He is a good dude...I hope he's doing okay.