Codeine freebase != Codeine salts! Do the math..

[DCBA]

Most codeine is sold in his salt form, the phosphate salt. But when you are figuring your dose you need to do some math because you are taking less codeine freebase than you tought..
And because codeine has a ceiling dose you need to do the right math in order to get the most of codeine.

So heres the conversion, for each 100mgs of codeine salts you would get:

- 80mgs of codeine freebase from the codeine hydrochloride.
- 73mgs of codeine freebase from the codeine phosphate.
- 85mgs of codeine freebase from the codeine sulphate.
- 84mgs of codeine freebase from the codeine citrate.
- 68mgs of codeine freebase from the codeine salicylate.

The most commom one is the phosphate like i said, and many people when they take 100mgs of codeine phosphate they think they are taking 100mgs of codeine but they are not! they are only taking 73mgs of codeine, the rest is the weight of the salt molecules.
So the ceiling dose for codeine phosphate is not 400mgs but 547mgs of codeine phosphate because that is the equivalent for codeine freebase.
Thats a lot of difference.. so if you are one of those that only take 400mgs of the phosphate thinking that no more effects can be obtained then you got good news.. you can take 150mgs more and still have aditional effects cause you will still convert codeine into morphine.

[Papa Verine]

That's good to know. But, it's still just codeine man...

[DCBA]

That's good to know. But, it's still just codeine man...

I know, and at the moment i got no use for it, i am just bored and i just remembered posting this info cause many people confuse both..

[DCBA]

Some more info from wiki about the ceiling dose:

The ceiling dose can be more accurately calculated by using 7 mg per 1 kg of bodyweight for males and 6 mg per 1 kg of bodyweight for females, taking into consideration an 18.5-25 BMI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMI) bodyweight to not over or under calculate in cases of obese or underweight people (this rule does not take into consideration the usage of other CYP2D6 inhibiting drugs, alcohol or naturally low or high enzyme presence though a 25% enzyme occupancy reduction can prove more accurate results).

Example: A 85kg male, bearing a height of 180cm is 5kg overweight, therefore the ceiling dose can be calculated by 7mg x (85-5)kg = 560mg and for a female of the same height and weight, 6mg x (85-5)kg = 480mg. 25% reduction to consider momentary enzyme occupancy, (560x0.75) putting the ceiling limit at 420mg.
Total CYP2D6 saturation or exceeding the ceiling dose often results in excessive histamine release to combat the yet to be processed codeine which results in swelling of bodily areas such as the genitals, cheeks, hands and feet often mimicking an adverse or allergic reaction despite subsidence with time.

[Indy]

But who's to say the original ceiling dose wasn't determined for the salt form?

[Paregoric Kid]

thanks for the info, great post!

[DCBA]

But who's to say the original ceiling dose wasn't determined for the salt form?

it wasn't. read above how the ceiling dose is calculated nowadays.

And also, when you convert to morphine (around 10%) you should only use the freebase mgs and not the salt form to calculate how many morphine you have consumed.

Thanks PK

[Indy]

Wow, you seem VERY sure!

[DCBA]

its has no logic otherwise, and hey do the math and calculate the normal ceiling dose for prodrugs of that enzyme using the general medical acepted formula thats posted above and see what you get.. you get more than 400mgs for my weight... for my weight the ceiling is of 550mgs of the freebase, much more than the 292mgs of codeine freebase you would get from your proclaimed ceiling of 400mgs of codeine phosphate!

[Indy]

...nevermind...just don't put words in my mouth. I never "proclaimed" anything.

[DCBA]

sorry, instead of "you" i should have used something else. can´t edit anymore..

[Indy]

It's cool.