going from subs to hydro

[hydro chris]

i wanted to stop the pain meds for awhile and see how ill feel without them..and sota re asses the situation of my pain.
so iv been on subs for 20days @16mgs and want to discontinue them, and basically start back on the vikes.?? what should i do pretty much?
any question or help would be cool..

sorry so short but my pc is down and im left with this shitty phone.
thanks.

[bronyraur]

It's relatively simple–stop taking the subs, wait til you start to feel shitty, and then start taking the hydros again.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if the subs have fucked your tolerance all up. Hydrocodone might not do it for you any more.

[hovadagod]

It's relatively simple–stop taking the subs, wait til you start to feel shitty, and then start taking the hydros again.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if the subs have fucked your tolerance all up. Hydrocodone might not do it for you any more.

I have to agree with brony. Subs are so so much stronger.

[duck]

Wait until you feel truly shitty. This will take at the very least 24 hours after your last sub dose, and 48 would be better...with 72 ideal. This is only if you want to feel the hydros w/o taking 20 of them. Actually, I really don't think if I had been on 16mg of sub 20 hydros would do shit anyways...so, ya, waiit.

[hydro chris]

It's relatively simple–stop taking the subs, wait til you start to feel shitty, and then start taking the hydros again.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if the subs have fucked your tolerance all up. Hydrocodone might not do it for you any more.
yea thats what i was thinking but not knowing a hellov a lot about subs.
how does this sound, start tapering on the subs and increase the hydro?
since i dont have a problem taking them together..not a bad little buzz;)but serious though.

[hydro chris]

Wait until you feel truly shitty. This will take at the very least 24 hours after your last sub dose, and 48 would be better...with 72 ideal. This is only if you want to feel the hydros w/o taking 20 of them. Actually, I really don't think if I had been on 16mg of sub 20 hydros would do shit anyways...so, ya, waiit.
yea ,,was thinking at least around 72
and trying to sneak around the sickness. somehow.lol

[deltapsik0]

Thats a huge sub dose.. taper down to like 1-2mg first and then go cold turkey for 72 hours.. then start with the hydro.

good luck

[feelings of u4ia]

You were on 16mg of Subs for a Hydrocodone habit? If so, that was your first mistake right there. I HIGHLY doubt you will even feel Hydrocodone anymore, without dying from APAP poisoning first.

I personally don't think someone should go onto subs for a Hydrocodone habit, that is just me though.

[bigNasty]

You were on 16mg of Subs for a Hydrocodone habit? If so, that was your first mistake right there. I HIGHLY doubt you will even feel Hydrocodone anymore, without dying from APAP poisoning first.

I personally don't think someone should go onto subs for a Hydrocodone habit, that is just me though.
I think people should be able to get on subs for a hydro habit but these dr's need to know their shit
I've got 3 different friends that got put on subs for their hydro habit. 1 was put on 24mg's and other 2 were put on 16mg's. I tell them they are just raising their tolerances and fucking themselves in the long run but they don't listen cause "I didn't go to med school like the guy that wrote their script".

But I think people with mild hydro habits should be put on the 2mg subs

[TigerFan]

It's relatively simple–stop taking the subs, wait til you start to feel shitty, and then start taking the hydros again.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if the subs have fucked your tolerance all up. Hydrocodone might not do it for you any more.


You said it... I was on 10 mgs a day of bupe and wanted to go back to getting that lovin' feeling. It took roughly 80 mgs of oxymorphone to feel anything.

Then I realized soon after that my habit/tolerance was worse than ever. Waking up in the morning and needing to sniff 20 mgs oxymorphone (opana ER) just to stop from sweating and puking.

[feelings of u4ia]

I think people should be able to get on subs for a hydro habit but these dr's need to know their shit
I've got 3 different friends that got put on subs for their hydro habit. 1 was put on 24mg's and other 2 were put on 16mg's. I tell them they are just raising their tolerances and fucking themselves in the long run but they don't listen cause "I didn't go to med school like the guy that wrote their script".

But I think people with mild hydro habits should be put on the 2mg subs

Yeah, I could see 2mg...but 16mg for a Hydro habit? That is nuts.

[duck]

Then I realized soon after that my habit/tolerance was worse than ever. Waking up in the morning and needing to sniff 20 mgs oxymorphone (opana ER) just to stop from sweating and puking.

I don't think that is related to tolerance in the strictest sense of the word. I think it is related to simply bupe's higher bonding affinity, making other opiates less able to bond and then needing more. Tolerance, as I understand it, is relative to acclimation to certain drugs, no the constant filling of the receptors (for example: say you did two grams of smack for 5 years and you quit long enough to where there was ZERO opiates in your receptors. Even then, your tolerance would be far greater than an opiate naive person. Thus, your tolerance must be related to acclimation and not simply receptors being full).

[TigerFan]

^^
Yeah, I've heard that before and it could be true - I'm not sure what it was, all I know was I was baffled it was happening.

[duck]

Yes, I understand as it has happened to me as well. It sucks, nonetheless.

[Oakleyskier]

i would just like to add that SWIM is a pretty big dope fiend.... and 2 mg of sub can get me through the day with 4 mg being perfect (of course when swim was at his worse subs NEVER worked... so granted my tolerance is down) but swim can still easily snort two bundles of fire, or shoot about a bundle in a day pretty easy, so i would highly suggest taking your sub dose down dramatically, especially if you want to stay with the less powerful shit!

[duck]

of course when swim was at his worse subs NEVER worked...

how long did you give the subs to work? One day? 5 days? Big difference...subs take a couple days to get right (ask Indy..he made the point recently which brought it to my attention)

[Oakleyskier]

ummm when i was smoking about 3 grams of tar a day, and also when doing a little under a brick of jersey powder SWIM NEVER had success, and that was never giving it more than a day, i always could never take it and gave up....

when i jump on the subs now with a lower tolerence the first two days are mad easy, but still some chills and residual stuff going on, but by the 3rd day, i feel GOLDEN! i'm sure thats what you ment? if i had a super huge habbit i would still be too scared to take some subs, even with a doc really in the know sitting right next to me.

[Dan Steely]

It's a shame you are on so high a sub dose. You prob would have been fine on 2mgs or maybe even as little as 1/2 mg.

Good news, and this is real good is you haven't been on them too long.

You don't HAVE to wait to switch but you wont get high for quite awhile.

It's gonna take (a rough guess) 10 days to get all the bupe outa you. Think about all the 3 day half life implications. You prob have about 48 mgs in you at any one time when you take 16/day.

You'd be smart to get off that stuff now. Don't even try to get high for at least a week when you switch. You'll just waste a lot of good drugs and jack your tol.

Just take enough to stay outa sub wd which lasts a solid 2 wks and it sucks but the hydro should cover it but I don't know, that's a lotta sub.

If a reasonable amt of hydro doesn't cover the sub wd then you're gonna have to taper. Try it though. I think you will be ok. Let us know how it goes.

Good luck man(I don't know if it's gonna suck or be easy or what for ya but it is worth doing. You don't want to be on that shit long term).

[deltapsik0]

You were on 16mg of Subs for a Hydrocodone habit? If so, that was your first mistake right there. I HIGHLY doubt you will even feel Hydrocodone anymore, without dying from APAP poisoning first.

I personally don't think someone should go onto subs for a Hydrocodone habit, that is just me though.

Not everyone goes on to bigger and better things, not everyone has resources to find a new DOC to move up once the tolerance is high enough..

SWIM has known lots of friends that have been up to 20-30 Norco a day habbit, Doing CWE's and parachuting like mad...

Personally any opiate problem can be approached and dealt with by suboxone and it's pretty faulty to try and downplay one drugs signfigance just because your speculative mind see's hydrocodone as a weak opiate or some shit..

bad advice !

[hydro chris]

sorry guys forgot to add i had a big prob. i was chewing 100mcgs of fent. a day

[feelings of u4ia]

Not everyone goes on to bigger and better things, not everyone has resources to find a new DOC to move up once the tolerance is high enough..

SWIM has known lots of friends that have been up to 20-30 Norco a day habbit, Doing CWE's and parachuting like mad...

Personally any opiate problem can be approached and dealt with by suboxone and it's pretty faulty to try and downplay one drugs signfigance just because your speculative mind see's hydrocodone as a weak opiate or some shit..

bad advice !


I said it was my OPINION. Not advice. Again, you failed to read and jumped to instant conclusions. The main problem I had, was the 16mg dose, but that is all speculative now, as he didn't just have a Hydrocodone problem.

So personally, if any of your friends have been put on 16mg of Suboxone for a Hydrocodone problem, that doctor is an idiot. Hydrocodone IS a weak opiate. WD's from most other things are 10x worse.

Also, 200mg of Hydrocodone a day still isn't that high.

[longduckdong]

You were on 16mg of Subs for a Hydrocodone habit? If so, that was your first mistake right there. I HIGHLY doubt you will even feel Hydrocodone anymore, without dying from APAP poisoning first.

I personally don't think someone should go onto subs for a Hydrocodone habit, that is just me though.

Really? Maybe because Hydro is my DOC at this time, but I find it interesting how some high and mighty dicksizing goes on here about how weak hydros are. And people shouoldnt be on subs, or done if vics were their DOC. Sure they aren't the strongest things in the world. I'm a 150-250mg/day user, and within 12-24hrs of my last dose, I am in pretty severe WDs.

Its an opiate. It creates a strong phsycial dependence. So we're not on heroin, but it still creates hell-full WDs.

[duck]

Not everyone goes on to bigger and better things, not everyone has resources to find a new DOC to move up once the tolerance is high enough..

SWIM has known lots of friends that have been up to 20-30 Norco a day habbit, Doing CWE's and parachuting like mad...

Personally any opiate problem can be approached and dealt with by suboxone and it's pretty faulty to try and downplay one drugs signfigance just because your speculative mind see's hydrocodone as a weak opiate or some shit..

bad advice !

Unfortunately, his advice is pretty good. few things get 'dealt' with very well with sub. The shit is one of the biggest scams around these days in relation to how it is sold. Now, as a maintenance opiate that makes you incredibly dependent but lets you maintain a reasonable life...it's ok...but it's no miracle pill that helps 'deal' with other drugs. It just replaces hydro with a far worse addiction. I know, I'm on the motherfuckers, just cus I can't get on mdone.

[DCBA]

sorry guys forgot to add i had a big prob. i was chewing 100mcgs of fent. a day

On top of the bup? If so you waisted 2mgs of fent over 20days..

I also dont think people that were on codeine/dhc/hydro and some cases of people that were even kratom and tramadol users SHOULDNT BE PUT ON BUP, and in some cases they are.. Docs are just not doing their stuff, and they should, after all only docs with a special licence and formation can prescribe bupe in the US..
Bupe has some strong afinity and the doses that it is marketed are way to high for someone with low habits/dependencies such those with low-grade opiates.
There are exceptions, but hey its like they say: the exception only confirms the rule!

[duck]

On top of the bup? If so you waisted 2mgs of fent over 20days..



That's not entirely true. He may not be getting all of it, but he is still getting a LOT of it. I take sub every day and can feel at least 60-70% of my normal DOC dose I take in the evenings, as do many others here.

[DCBA]

That's not entirely true. He may not be getting all of it, but he is still getting a LOT of it. I take sub every day and can feel at least 60-70% of my normal DOC dose I take in the evenings, as do many others here.

With 16mgs of daily bup? Thats hard to believe, at least in most people it doesnt work like that..

[hovadagod]

Not everyone goes on to bigger and better things, not everyone has resources to find a new DOC to move up once the tolerance is high enough..

SWIM has known lots of friends that have been up to 20-30 Norco a day habbit, Doing CWE's and parachuting like mad...

Personally any opiate problem can be approached and dealt with by suboxone and it's pretty faulty to try and downplay one drugs signfigance just because your speculative mind see's hydrocodone as a weak opiate or some shit..

bad advice !

I think you are missing the point. Suboxone is a more powerful drug than hydrocodone. It just doesn't make sense to use a stronger drug to quit a weaker one but to each his own right?

[hovadagod]

That's not entirely true. He may not be getting all of it, but he is still getting a LOT of it. I take sub every day and can feel at least 60-70% of my normal DOC dose I take in the evenings, as do many others here.

It is hard to believe but certain drugs work while you are on bupe. Like methadone for instance. but Fent was never one of those drugs for swim.

[duck]

With 16mgs of daily bup? Thats hard to believe, at least in most people it doesnt work like that..

ah, hadn't noted the 16mg dose. Yeah, I use about 1-2mg of sub a day and still feel my DOC enough to justify spending the $.

[Dan Steely]

I'm pretty sure he was saying that he was doing the fent before he went on sub. Trying to explain why he was put on 16 mgs.

I didn't think that was that hard to understand.

There is too much irrellavent discord in this thread. I seriously doubt that was what hydro chris was looking for when he started it. He was looking for our help.

[DCBA]

didnt understand that way..

But hey, switching from an mixed agonist/antagonist like bupe to a full agonist like hydro is simple and its like it was said here, just wait for wd effects to grow for a few hours and then start taking the hydro and adjust the dose until all your wd symptoms are gone, then you maintain on that hydro dose daily or start a taper to detox from it..
From bupe to hydro is simple, the other way around (from bupe to hydro) is the more complicated one, but this one is simple..

[deltapsik0]

I said it was my OPINION. Not advice. Again, you failed to read and jumped to instant conclusions. The main problem I had, was the 16mg dose, but that is all speculative now, as he didn't just have a Hydrocodone problem.

So personally, if any of your friends have been put on 16mg of Suboxone for a Hydrocodone problem, that doctor is an idiot. Hydrocodone IS a weak opiate. WD's from most other things are 10x worse.

Also, 200mg of Hydrocodone a day still isn't that high.


Sorry, Didn't mean to get on your case.. but people with their opinions and their ridiculously high tolerance to more powerfull narcotics tend to downplay hydro abuse and the like...

I did read your whole post ! It's just hard to understand why people downplay Hydrocodone... but i agree, my main gripe is with the huge bupe dose a day !

But still, if your bad enough on any opiate then subs can be a life saver, just depends on the quality of life you are currently at and the level you want to get to.

Cheers !

[hydro chris]

alright guys i know my OP was alittle confusion cuz it was to me. im on this cell my pc is down and this phone sucks for internet explore sorry.
heres the deal im scripted 42mgs of hydrocodone a day for various pains
so what happened i started fucking around with fent and oc"s and got a hell of a tolerance/habbit
so there for, i went on subs thinking i might get some pain relief also but..no! big mistake..
what i want to do is just go back to taking my reg. stuff ..just hydrocodone!

what your opinion on how to lower my tolerance again?

[digby]

alright guys i know my OP was alittle confusion cuz it was to me. im on this cell my pc is down and this phone sucks for internet explore sorry.
heres the deal im scripted 42mgs of hydrocodone a day for various pains
so what happened i started fucking around with fent and oc"s and got a hell of a tolerance/habbit
so there for, i went on subs thinking i might get some pain relief also but..no! big mistake..
what i want to do is just go back to taking my reg. stuff ..just hydrocodone!

what your opinion on how to lower my tolerance again?

taper, taper, taper. Get some lower increment oxys and work your way down to 10 mg/dose. From there you can go back to hydros easily.

[bigNasty]

heres the deal im scripted 42mgs of hydrocodone a day for various pains

Is that a typo? If not, why or how are you rx'd that amount?


And people do downplay hydro too much on this site. One thread will say "i snort 3 OC 20's a day and i am out" and someone will tell them they're gonna be in hell when WD's kick in

Then another thread will say "I've been eating 10 norco's at a time, three times a day" and someone will tell them to just tough it out instead of taking a sub cause hydro is weak, etc... AND everybody will agree with it and say yeah man just tough it out, you shouldn't get anything more than a runny nose

[hydro chris]

Is that a typo? If not, why or how are you rx'd that amount?


And people do downplay hydro too much on this site. One thread will say "i snort 3 OC 20's a day and i am out" and someone will tell them they're gonna be in hell when WD's kick in

Then another thread will say "I've been eating 10 norco's at a time, three times a day" and someone will tell them to just tough it out instead of taking a sub cause hydro is weak, etc... AND everybody will agree with it and say yeah man just tough it out, you shouldn't get anything more than a runny nose yes it was my bad i mean actually 45mgs..
i hear you on the rest, i got ya.but....

[hydro chris]

taper, taper, taper. Get some lower increment oxys and work your way down to 10 mg/dose. From there you can go back to hydros easily.
at the moment i can only get my hands on fent and hydros..im good with the fent even though it wouldn't probably serve any purpose. definitely good.. lol. thanks

[hydro chris]

well this is how i played it out..
brief: was being script... 100mcgs of fentanly, 7.5 mgs of hydrocodone. basically for lime.

the last three months of this ,i landed a connect for 60mgs oc's, 50mcg fent .
i was using about 100mcgs of fent, between 120-180 of oc's and about 45mgs of hydro a day.

so on day i decided i wanted off everything and re access the old pains i was havein and get back on track and just take what i needed to to get by.

pretty much i was looking like shit and losing mad weight.
so.. i went to my p.c. and told him the deal.. and i wanted off everything.

he put me on 16 mgs of subs, and with in a day or so i was good.
two weeks later the side effects blow.. and i was hoping it would help with ankle,knee,neck and back pain..but nothing.
so i was like fuck this shit.

i went back and told him whats up, i just want my hydro's back.. fuck with the fent. didnt notice much with it anyway.
so i got my script for my 7.5s. but we got to talking about other things and i left with no knowledge of how going back to the hydro from the subs. his fault my fault whatever.

anyways this is how it went..
i went for a taper of subs like.... 16 to12 to10 to8 to6 to4 to2 to1 to .5 to nothing every 2or 3 days, and started to feel w/ds around 10mgs..

then just kick in the hydrocodone enough to feel comfortable toward the end of the sub taper.. i was up to around about 80 to 90 mgs of hydro a day and now im tapering down to 45 to 53mgs were i should and wanna be..hoping im good.
i definitely thought it was gonna be bad, but it wasn't i have no time to miss work or other things i had planed.

anyways, thanks guys.... for your reply and such. H.C.