Propionyl Chloride!

[robojunkie]

OK, for all you obsessed with making something or other with glacial acetic acid like heroin, which is an endeavor upon which you will fail, try something better. Like the list 1 chemical propionyl chloride.

A simple solution of glacial acetic acid in THF (anhydrous of course) is added to two equivalents (one for the proton, one for the enolate proton) at -78 to 0 C, wait oh an hour or so, depending on who you believe, of LDA (that's lithium diisopropylamide, made from the amine and butyllithium), then at 0C one adds a mild excess of methyl iodide and follows by TLC (which is easy by working up aliquots in HCl, using like methanol/ethylacetate type solvents, these are acids after all). Once finished (doesn't take long from what I've read), acidify with HCl (carefully) and extract with solvent of choice. One would use a low boiling solvent to avoid having to fractionate. Or simply do a basicifation and precipitate the salt out of the solvent.

Then once one has this, either reacidify or distill as is for pure propionic acid. Then as easy as pie chlorinate as per any number of thousands of preps with PCl5 or PCl3 or POCl3 or even SOCl2 (this is messier) or P2O5 (more complicated for a number of reasons).

Yes, I haven't done this one myself but it is so fucking easy and I've done very many similar reactions to both steps. The primary purpose isn't for most to do this reaction, if most even know the point, or have access, the point is this:

With this prep of PrCl, in theory one can now make the above category compound in 6 steps, not including these two, without ever touching a DEA list 1 chemical. Yeah, this ain't cooking crack and this undetailed (I could make it a hell of a lot more detailed and cite it, but it isn't here for instructional purposes, those who have access and could do it don't need my help on this) procedure is moderately vague, but as I said, there exists now a proven way to succeed in this endeavor for those daring souls who would try and can figure it out like I did once, without ever getting on the heat's shitlist. And don't worry I'll never write some "Uncle Fester" of fent type book and get like 10 things moved onto to the list 1 category, fuck that shit, not to mention all the wrong people getting the recipe to do it (and people with money, little conscience and connections through intimidation could do this like bigger gangs/mafia types/cartel types,though they'd probably kill the first two trying it and taking their profits, with a chemist of course, as easy as moving dope across the border, and I don't really want them having it).

Main point, no List 1's needed from start to finish...

[DreamSellerInc]

Just because I'm not familiar with synthesis procedures, what effect would this drug have, theoretically. From the perspective of a user.

[JonnyMohawk]

can I do this with the chem set I got in the children's section of my local mall?


http://kidstoys180.com/uploaded_images/science-toys-for-kids-701543.jpg

[at&t]

Propionyl Chloride? You don't know about that stuff? Your guy must be behind the times.. My dealers had that for years now.... You just mix it on up, drink a jug of it and you'll be feeling fine.

jk dreamseller.... sorry..... couldn't resist somehow, you know....:o

[doctor diesel]

There's no doubting that RJ has a brain the size of a planet.
But what the hell is all that stuff? Anybody?
Sounds a bit like that anaesthetic MJ allegedly had illegally pumped into him by that on-the-run quack.

Doc.

[StackBundles]

RJ is merely postulating a way to produce cool shit without placing yourself under scrutiny.

[at&t]

Well... I for one recall bookmarking this thread just about the moment it was posted... (and additionally-- just in case, also copying and pasting it to a separate text file...)

As for the "um. whats it for?" questions-- I'd say that Stack Bundles did a very good job of explaining it. This Particular Heavily (DEA) Watched Chemical + that children's chemistry set that Mr. J. Mohawk posted a picture of + you know... "Pour this here, Bake that at 350F, etc" and some other stuff = Good Things. -- e.g. FINALLY WINNING (one's part of) the drug war, etc.

You know... its not Really for drinking out of a jug for fun... :o I promise I tried to hold myself back... but.. sadly to no avail....

ok... I'll be quiet now.... Cheers all, and as always Thanks to RJ for, you know... yet another excellent post..... etc. at&t

[Papa Verine]

He's talking about Fentanyl. The precursor drugs are "controlled". However, if you're a skilled chemist you can make the precursor drugs without having to procure any "controlled" chemicals. That's the point of this thread.

I don't know anything about chemistry either... But this thread is pretty easy to understand. Robo wrote this one for us dumb people, I think...

[robojunkie]

Since this one's up, another fairly easy way to make the shit would be acetic acid and diazomethane (I believe its called an "Arndt-Eisterst Rearrangement" or some shit), where you first make the acetyl chloride (or probably AA would suffice, though I'm uncertain) and react with diazomethane, which is CH2N2, two equivalents of it. Then what happens is that "loose" CH3 ending the acetic part of the azo compound does a one carbon shift as nitrogen is lost. Sorry I don't got the chem software, even non-chem people could probably get the main gist of it from the drawings and such. Nitrogen is so good a "leaving group" and the only thing in the reaction to replace the lost electrons is the alpha methyl group. The CH2 from the diazomethane stays, and WOW, we've inserted a CH2 in between the CH3 and COOH of acetic acid, making propionic acid. Then follow standard chlorinating procedures (SOCl2, PCl5, PCl3, POCl3, DMF/(COCl)2, etc).

This stuff makes me wonder if one could drive a rearrangement like this using DCC (something that turns the OH of a COOH acid into a pro-dialkyl urea moiety, also a very good leaving group). Anyway, there are these and several other ways to make Propionyl Chloride, such as simply hydrogenating the all important and incredibly common and impossible to ever control because millions of tons are used every year methyl acrylate. Add H2 to methyl acrylate and one has methyl propionate. Easy to see from there, hey? Or Jones oxidation (H2SO4/CrO3 or other Cr+6 compount) of 1-propanol to the acid. Or ethyl magnesium bromide Grignard and CO2. And on and on and on. Even the "big piece" isn't much more difficult, ie steps 1 to 3. The average meth cook would fail in this last endeavour, but if I can do it I'm sure there must be some other determined/equipped/prepared opiophile out there in this nation of 300,000,000 oversized children who could also figure out the clues and pull it off. Every step has analogous precedent in the literature. Hell there are papers to selectively make step one a two step process to give the 3-methyl F derivative. Not to mention a commonly prescribed substance that would be much better used as the feedstock for alpha-methyl fent in the first step.

Just as an example, between the darkness and emptiness of last summer, and about two or three months ago, just to prove a point (and it did take that long to bit by bit gather up all the flour and sugar and flavorings and bowls and spoons and so forth), a certain pseudo-tranny who would fuck himself in the fourth dimension if he could get there, succeeded in this endeavor, (not the above, the rest that remains unspoken), without too much frustration and failures. Not enough for the guy to provide for anyone even himself for much time, more just to prove the point that it could be done "clandestinely" as in w/o access to all the modern instrumentation and equipment, only knowledge, supplies and determination. But as I said in another post I am on long term vacay from this line of work, trying to be pragmatically straight as I slowly come off the methadone (on 27 mgs now) and rebuild the career/bullshit reputation amongst my detractors/finances/etc.

Nonetheless, someday I really do believe this is so easy relative to the benefits gained to work/difficulty level that others (hopefully not the gangster/kill a few junkies so more want to buy their bags type) figure it out with greater access to greater amounts of material than I and also share the idealism and belief that the only way to win (from our side) the war on drug users, especially opiophiles, is to literally flood the junky world with free (or damn near free, ie at cost) fentanyl in standardized solutions with instruction manuals on dosing (like they do when you buy rigs in MA) so people don't accidently OD, ie any OD's would be true suicides, no need for the "Two in the arm's better than one in the ground shit", just read the equivalency charts one could easily give out. As in concentrated (saturated) fent HCl solution when used like this is about equal in volume at around 4 units to a high quality stamp, give or take. This is somewhere around 1.5 mg or slightly less, probably just over a mg.

Anyway, just for fun imagine a robojunkie type dude in every major city with access to much more supply that I ever had with idealism and enough smarts to isolate him/herself from discovery by the higher up dealers/leo, as in operating in cells of 10 or 15 "clients" so that any takedown by either enemy is always ineffective at eliminating the "movement". Seriously if I could train around 2-300 people I trust reasonably well to do this safely (both life wise and law wise) and they shared my views/ethics/opinions, dealers would be put out of business, the dea would fail at trying to put most of the ingredients on "List 1" or anywhere else (because they are, for the most part, ubiquitous in industries unlike NPP or ANPP or other drug percursors). Maybe then if society saw that free IV fent would help far more at a far higher success rate than methadone or rehab or any of that shit, as far as keeping jobs, staying away from crime, having stable families, etc, maybe they'd begin to open their minds and realize, at least as far as opiates go, virtually all the deleterious and even deadly effects of the addiction are the result of the lack of the drug, that a stable supply means a stable life!

[at&t]

nod... Just wanted to say thanks once again for sharing your ideas/theories about this stuff..... Despite, of course, the fact that I, personally, (obviously) certainly (otoh at least) know absolutely Fuck All 0.0 whatsoever about any
step 1. Diazomethane + Arndt-Eisterst Rearrangement, etc, step 2, 1 cup egg whites, 1tbsp sugar, step 3. ??? -> Strictly watched (and exceedingly blatant) precursors

but... I did smile when reading your "not dead, just busy" thread, when I sort of thought back to this post from months ago, and assumed that it might well be what you were subtly alluding to when you said "12 steps to sobriety, 6 steps to paradise."

Anyway.... like I said, I am posting, first off, just to say that-- you know... thanks again for posting your thoughts/etc...
and second off-- Good....!! I *also* just wanted to say that I've... always really appreciated-- admired even, your attitude about some of this stuff.... In this case, specifically referring to the "finally fighting back in the drug war" closing paragraph of your post...

I was just posting in another thread that I really find myself thinking more and more lately that Its GOT TO BE finally just about time to start going on the offensive in the drug war for once. You know... its just that they were Only Too Happy to start it, perpetuate it, be the sole aggressor in it all this while, and crush so many people/rack up so many casualties with it, etc...


And..... as much as one's mind (well, my mind, at least... :))is drawn to the idea of handing out Guns, Badges, and Arrest Warrants for Drug Enforcement Personnel--

it is of course much more practical, more satisfying (well.. probably), and strangely enough, even much more *likely* to ever happen, to just say something like: "Well. You fuckers want a war? A Drug War? You absolutely sure? well.... OK. If thats what you want, you know...." and then pause for a moment, before continuing with: "3.. 2.. 1.. thats it. Opioids [ed: well... you know.. some of them at least] are Free Now. Get it? No more bottlenecks, No more choke points, No more control, monopoly, extortion, etc... No more having an 'enemy' (or Prey, rather, to use a more accurate term...) that you can See or Find or even Catch a few of here and there.. etc."

Anyway... Take care of yourself, Robojunkie.... Good luck with all the stuff work/etc you have going... Bye for now, at&t

[DreamSellerInc]

nod... Just wanted to say thanks once again for sharing your ideas/theories about this stuff..... Despite, of course, the fact that I, personally, (obviously) certainly (otoh at least) know absolutely Fuck All 0.0 whatsoever about any
step 1. Diazomethane + Arndt-Eisterst Rearrangement, etc, step 2, 1 cup egg whites, 1tbsp sugar, step 3. ??? -> Strictly watched (and exceedingly blatant) precursors

but... I did smile when reading your "not dead, just busy" thread, when I sort of thought back to this post from months ago, and assumed that it might well be what you were subtly alluding to when you said "12 steps to sobriety, 6 steps to paradise."

Anyway.... like I said, I am posting, first off, just to say that-- you know... thanks again for posting your thoughts/etc...
and second off-- Good....!! I *also* just wanted to say that I've... always really appreciated-- admired even, your attitude about some of this stuff.... In this case, specifically referring to the "finally fighting back in the drug war" closing paragraph of your post...

I was just posting in another thread that I really find myself thinking more and more lately that Its GOT TO BE finally just about time to start going on the offensive in the drug war for once. You know... its just that they were Only Too Happy to start it, perpetuate it, be the sole aggressor in it all this while, and crush so many people/rack up so many casualties with it, etc...


And..... as much as one's mind (well, my mind, at least... :))is drawn to the idea of handing out Guns, Badges, and Arrest Warrants for Drug Enforcement Personnel--

it is of course much more practical, more satisfying (well.. probably), and strangely enough, even much more *likely* to ever happen, to just say something like: "Well. You fuckers want a war? A Drug War? You absolutely sure? well.... OK. If thats what you want, you know...." and then pause for a moment, before continuing with: "3.. 2.. 1.. thats it. Opioids [ed: well... you know.. some of them at least] are Free Now. Get it? No more bottlenecks, No more choke points, No more control, monopoly, extortion, etc... No more having an 'enemy' (or Prey, rather, to use a more accurate term...) that you can See or Find or even Catch a few of here and there.. etc."

Anyway... Take care of yourself, Robojunkie.... Good luck with all the stuff work/etc you have going... Bye for now, at&t



that kinda went into left field

[at&t]

Posted by DreamSellerInc:
> that kinda went [ed: Way way the fuck] into left field

Fair enough man.... So it did... ;)