Wandering?

[newjerseysfinest]

so newark and irvington LOVE to give wandering charges.... also known as solicitating in a known drug area.... blah blah blah

well my question to you is how do you get around this? what would you say?

from what i think i know it seems that a cop could ALWAYS get you for this if he wanted you.

they were gonna charge me with wanderin in essex county but were lazy and didnt wanna do the paperwork (car got stolen with me in it)

i dont really know how the law works so if someone could break it down for me i would REALLY appreciate it!.


MUCH LOVE!

[Woowoo]

I'm a little ignorant, but wtf is "wandering"? Is that like "loitering"? What is the actual crime being committed?

I used to be a junky in Atlanta so I know all about how cops love to harass a guy just for being a "white kid in the wrong part of town". To them, it LOOKED like I must be a junky looking for a fix. And well, yeah, they were right on the money. But still, that's no excuse.

The last time I checked, it's still perfectly legal to be in a public place--regardless of the color of your skin, and regardless of the "kind of neighborhood" that it is. Cops can harass you for anything, but when it comes to actually putting the bracelets on your wrists and escorting you to the county jail, they need at least a pretense of a crime. If they don't, the DA has to throw people back on the street, the DA gets mad at their boss, and their boss gets mad at them.

It could be that cops will continue to do this until some brave person gets put in jail and fights it all the way to the supreme court. It sort of reminds me of that Rastafarian who got busted in California for "not having ID on him" ... he suffered like hell, but he fought and fought, in the end the state had to recant and admit that the USA is not (yet) living in a police state where people can be carted off because "their papers are not in order." (Give Obama a few years and that might be a thing of the past, too.)

Sorry I don't have much facts about this subject but you've piqued my interest, as I am a staunch believer in individual freedoms and the limiting of fascist police powers. Do tell more.

[SHELLEY]

well i dont know if this helps
but in the city of west palm beach, they have a similar city statute involving hookers
where if you've either a)been arrested in the past TEN years for hooking or drugs or
b) look like a hooker to the cops or c) not buying anything, just chillin
then they can immediately write you up and/or jail you for
"loitering with INTENT to solicit drugs or prostitution"

this always pissed me off majorly, because you shouldn't be able to legislate "intent"
could they have proved beyond all reasonable doubt what someone intends on doing?
hells to the no and yet they do it all the time
just stay the fuck out of that part of town when you know certain cops are out
that's what i did

[Angelwolf13]

a)been arrested in the past TEN years for hooking or drugs or
b) look like a hooker to the cops or c) not buying anything, just chillin


oh, that's just lovely. you have to buy something to not get arrested... doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of the "law"???

and what is a hooker supposed to look like? i've seen hookers dressed like your common garden variety street bum. i, myself, might be prancing out in a tight tank top and hot pants, not because i'm a hooker, but because I LIKE TO! geez!

pfft, next thing you know hookers will be dressing up like nuns to avoid LE interfering in their private affairs, no pun intended.

if cops are just looking for an excuse to arrest people because there are not enough rapists/murderers to go around, maybe there are just too many on them on the force getting their paychecks from us. too bad we couldn't arrest them for "harrassment".

"wandering" huh? i'll have to look into that one. amazing.

[digby]

I have never heard of such a thing, but the mere thought of it makes we want to challenge the heck out of that law. Stuff like this really brings out the dissident in me.

[SHELLEY]

oh, that's just lovely. you have to buy something to not get arrested... doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of the "law"???

and what is a hooker supposed to look like? i've seen hookers dressed like your common garden variety street bum. i, myself, might be prancing out in a tight tank top and hot pants, not because i'm a hooker, but because I LIKE TO! geez!

pfft, next thing you know hookers will be dressing up like nuns to avoid LE interfering in their private affairs, no pun intended.

if cops are just looking for an excuse to arrest people because there are not enough rapists/murderers to go around, maybe there are just too many on them on the force getting their paychecks from us. too bad we couldn't arrest them for "harrassment".

"wandering" huh? i'll have to look into that one. amazing.

apparently its because "local businesses complain"
well hookers are just as much local businesses as the rest of them storefronts right? :)
and the cops, they just have nothing better to do sometimes
which is crazy in west palm, because there's people getting shot and killed and burglarized all the time
sometimes even on camera (http://www.bigmoneyentertainment.com/)
and yet the cops bother this 14 year old girl walking to school because she "looked like a hooker"
......?

[newjerseysfinest]

yes there are many names for this law..... loitering with the intent to engage in illegal activity and other ways of wording it, but while i was sitting in the police station the law was "wandering..... (forget the rest of the sentance but it was something wandering in a known drug area)

now i tried looking this shit up when i got home cuz it seemed like such a fucked up law.... i mean this IS a free country..... but i couldnt find ANY information on it....

but it has been proven to me by other people in the "scene" and even one of my drug counslers confirmed it, but noone could really break down the law.

it seems to me if you cannot prove you live in one of the buildings (projects/ REALLY shiitty apartments, or Rowhouses on a certain street) you can be popped for wandering.

[hovadagod]

The way I would handle the situation is by clearly stating to the cop that I was not loitering but shopping and if they arrest you start bitching about it being a false arrest and if you are taken to jail, tell the jailers also because they would be falsely imprisoning you if the cop falsely arrested you. If that law turns out to be unconstitutional upon a challenge you will get some good money out of it. I have a feeling that people don't really get convicted under that law in a trial. Rather, the law is used so that cops can make the arrest and people generally plea bargain in the US. But I really never heard of this crap until now. IF I were charged under it, I would appeal everything and never stop fighting.

Edit:
Also wouldn't show the cop ID unless I HAD TO and if he used force tell him he is assaulting/ battering you because you did NOTHING wrong. Read about privileged arrests vs non privileged arrests if this is an issue in your area. This would be an unprivileged arrest and there is a higher level of scrutiny involved.

[SHELLEY]

it seems to me if you cannot prove you live in one of the buildings (projects/ REALLY shiitty apartments, or Rowhouses on a certain street) you can be popped for wandering.

i got busted for loitering with intent TEN FEET FROM MY DOOR
the landlord even said that i had lived there for months, cop didn't care
time to go to jail
and while i've never ever been convicted of this crap (it always gets "no filed" after a few days)
you do tend to hafta sit in county, and fuck all this "fight it" shit, that'll just get you on the second floor

[newjerseysfinest]

so im assuming cops would charge prostitutes cuz its a huge "problem" to them and also scared white boys out of there element just to scare them into never coming back?

i can tell you while in handcuffs i was NOT looking forward to Essex County Jail.....

also where SWIM cops sometimes is infront of a bodega.... so you think if SWIM bought a pack of gum and the jump out boys or even a marked unit rolled up on the spot and SWIM had yet to cop i could say "yo yo i just went in the store to buy summin!!!!" and that would lay any chances of being charged with wandering to rest?

[SHELLEY]

^
if they really want you out of the hood, no there's nothing you can do to stop them
they can arrest you for ANYTHING, they can make shit up, they can and they fucking will

i was sitting on a bus stop bench with a buck fifty in my hand, a cop tells me "come here"
this is the dude that chased me and tasered me because i wouldn't get in his unmarked truck
he tells me to get out of his city, so i start walking
and as i'm leaving, he says something (turns out it was "come back here") which i didn't hear
so he runs back up on me and slaps the fucking cuffs on me saying "i told you to come back here"
i'm like "what, you told me to get out of your city" he says "no i didnt"
i asked what i was being charged with, the cop says "because i feel like it"
being a smartass without considering consequences, i asked if that would be on the police report
he gave me a fucking rock (crack) and took me to jail
the charge wa "no filed" after 9 days, but i was in jail for 9 days for waiting for the bus/talking back to a cop
it will NEVER make it to court, some of the bullshit they come up with
but as i said before, you'll still hafta go to county until your court date or until they "lose the file"

[buc]

In Austin Texas........No sitting on the sidewalk. You can be ticketed.........you gotta keep wandering.

[SHELLEY]

that wandering shit is no joke, its just an excuse for cops to get folks off the street
and there is nothing any of us can do about it
"fight it in court" is completely meaningless when you've just spent 4 days detoxing in county
before they finally threw out the case...

[newjerseysfinest]

thank you shelley your so right.... its bullshit.... its like automatic if the po po wants to get gully on your ass!

someone please breakdown this law for me.... or at least explain how its constitutional....

or any advice in what to do about being in this predictament!

[Raz]

Man you guys live in one fucked up country.....The more i read about America, the more i am astounded....

In da UK we used to have da suss law , which was just a way of bustin black guys for hangin around...

We got ridda dat shit in da late 70;s.....

[hovadagod]

Shelley,

You're right. The detox thing makes it really hard to stand up for yourself. That's another reason that they can get away with it; they know that junky's are terrified of jail (detox). Really sucks but just realize that if you did not intend on purchasing dope, it is a false arrest and you can go after the officer's bond.

Clarifies that "entering" a public place for a drug deal is conduct included
in C.2C:33-2.1. --> http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2002/Bills/A3500/3382_I1.PDF

[hovadagod]

Conduct that may, where warranted under the circumstances, be
deemed adequate to manifest a purpose to obtain or distribute a
controlled dangerous substance or controlled substance analog
includes, but is not limited to, conduct such as the following:
(1) Repeatedly beckoning to or stopping pedestrians or motorists
in a public place;
(2) Repeatedly passing objects to or receiving objects from
pedestrians or motorists in a public place;
(3) Repeatedly circling in a public place in a motor vehicle and on
one or more occasions passing any object to or receiving any object
from a person in a public place.
d. The element of the offense described in paragraph (1) of
subsection b. of this section may not be established solely by proof that
the actor engaged in the conduct that is used to satisfy the element
described in paragraph (2) of subsection b. of this section.

[Ickyuck]

Honestly, I don't know how to explain to a cop why I am loitering in a "high drug activity" area.

NJfinest, get this: My friend was walking around Asbury Park not to score, I think it was to see the property he was supposed to survey the next day. Anyway, Asbury cops roll by and ticket him for loitering/solicting! Not the first time I've heard this in Asbury, they are hardcore now about, basically, anyone walking around, regarless of race. Don't know what they call it there..

And when I lived in Baltimore, the mayor then (the O'malley years) and police commish enacted a new law to ban soliciting on street corners. Thing is, that's where you hang out with your neighbors to shoot the shit, its akin to hanging out on your stoop. So a lotta people where gettin eyed up and/or arrested. That sucked. Try hanging out there, WooWoo, i'm sure you'll gain a new perspective of public places. ;)

[ryan]

If the cops stop you for wandering, just be like..

"Roamer, wanderer, nomad, vagabond, call me what you will!!"

lulz

[hovadagod]

In State v. Kazanes, 318 N.J. Super. 421 (App. Div. 1999), the Appellate Court reversed a trial court decision convicting a defendant of the disorderly persons offense of "wandering" with the purpose of unlawfully obtaining or distributing a controlled dangerous substances in violation of N.J.S.A. 2C:33-2.1. The Appellate Court ruled that there was insufficient evidence that defendant "lingered" or "wandered," as required by the statute. Law enforcement officials are aware that buyers usually do not wander, linger or circulate, but instead go directly to the dealer, make the purchase and leave.

[newjerseysfinest]

wow hovadagod thank you very much! i realise most people would bitch saying that i should just look it up on the internet! and i really did try and came up with nothing....

that information is most definately very useful

"officer, i have not circled the block, i have not been walking the block, i simply came here, and stopped to ask for directions"

i mean he will know that is complete bullshit but could he honestly prove it otherwise?

and yeah ickyuck that is complete bullshit... i remember watching the wire and the cop said "this corner is now indicted" i wonder if thats what he ment....

i know i am not the smartest fucker on this website so if any of you could weigh in on the situation and what you would do if caught up in said situation!

[SHELLEY]

what you would do if caught up in said situation!

1) go to jail, wait, get released when case is dropped
2) figure out which cops enforce this ridiculous law
3) figure out when these specific cops are working, and where their beat is
4) avoid their beat while they are working
5) hide your dope so that if/when you get arrested for bullshit, you got somethin to bring in

[hovadagod]

"officer, i have not circled the block, i have not been walking the block, i simply came here, and stopped to ask for directions"


That's the idea... I don't think you can do much if the cop doesn't follow the law (which they don't) but showing the cop that you know the law is a good way to make him think twice before arresting you. False arrest is pretty serious and the cop should know that you know that (if that makes any sense).

[losangeleslifer]

I know around these parts there are signs of "no loitering" or "no trespassing" (usually for private property ie projects).

I wonder if they'll post "no wandering" signs. Dion is shit out of luck then.:)

[898522986]

in hartford ct i recently had something similar happen. upon leaving a friends house me and my girl were cut off by a newer kia and out jumped two undercovers with guns drawn. they had me out of the kar and in cuffs in like five seconds. they said their reason for stopping us was they saw us pull out from behind a known dope house. after searching us and the kar to no avail the decided i must have it in my ass (which i diddnt) so they arrested me for criminal trespassing and said when they find the drugs in booking theyll juat add charges. after a slighty akward strip search in booking they released me on a pta and my old lady picked me up (she had the bundle on her in a safe place:p)and all was well. the charges got nollied in community court shortly after.

[Oakleyskier]

yeah this is my thread *posting as NJF* but yeah i'm sure the charges are almost exact, from the info HOVA brought to this thread, if the situation comes up i'm going to explain that i understand the law, and that i was NOT "wandering" or "loitering" but who knows, cops are cops you know?

[blackdog]

so newark and irvington LOVE to give wandering charges.... also known as solicitating in a known drug area.... blah blah blah
well my question to you is how do you get around this? what would you say?
from what i think i know it seems that a cop could ALWAYS get you for this if he wanted you.
SNIP-SNIP
they were gonna charge me with wanderin in essex county but were lazy and didnt wanna do the paperwork (car got stolen with me in it) Would you want to explain a bit further if'n ya don't mind?:rolleyes:
MUCH LOVE!


I'm a little ignorant, but wtf is "wandering"? Is that like "loitering"? What is the actual crime being committed?
I used to be a junky in Atlanta so I know all about how cops love to harass a guy just for being a "white kid in the wrong part of town". To them, it LOOKED like I must be a junky looking for a fix. And well, yeah, they were right on the money. But still, that's no excuse.
SNIP-SNIP
Sorry I don't have much facts about this subject but you've piqued my interest, as I am a staunch believer in individual freedoms and the limiting of fascist police powers. Do tell more.


The way I would handle the situation is by clearly stating to the cop that I was not loitering but shopping and if they arrest you start bitching about it being a false arrest and if you are taken to jail, tell the jailers also because they would be falsely imprisoning you if the cop falsely arrested you. If that law turns out to be unconstitutional upon a challenge you will get some good money out of it. I have a feeling that people don't really get convicted under that law in a trial. Rather, the law is used so that cops can make the arrest and people generally plea bargain in the US. But I really never heard of this crap until now. IF I were charged under it, I would appeal everything and never stop fighting.
Edit:Also wouldn't show the cop ID unless I HAD TO and if he used force tell him he is assaulting/ battering you because you did NOTHING wrong. Read about privileged arrests vs non privileged arrests if this is an issue in your area. This would be an unprivileged arrest and there is a higher level of scrutiny involved.


Man you guys live in one fucked up country.....The more i read about America, the more i am astounded....
In da UK we used to have da suss law , which was just a way of bustin black guys for hangin around...
We got ridda dat shit in da late 70;s.....Welcome to our nightmare sweetheart......:p


yeah this is my thread *posting as NJF* but yeah i'm sure the charges are almost exact, from the info HOVA brought to this thread, if the situation comes up i'm going to explain that i understand the law, and that i was NOT "wandering" or "loitering" but who knows, cops are cops you know?

A Long while ago one time as i was being asked by the female rookie cop when i was pulled over in the Bronx NY area around 2-4 am "don't you realize that you are in a drug zone" Well that struck me as odd. So i proceeded to shoe the the cop my 30 page spiralbound new york and the five boros street atlas and guide whereupon i asked her to show me one page that isn't/wouldn't be considered a drug zone. which caused a large amount of hilarity and amusement to the situation. whereupon i was told to get the hell out of dodge and immediately proceeded to do just that. being that i had what i did indeed come for.The jokes on who?:rolleyes:

[The Paregoric Man]

Welcome to our nightmare sweetheart......:p



A Long while ago one time as i was being asked by the female rookie cop when i was pulled over in the Bronx NY area around 2-4 am "don't you realize that you are in a drug zone" Well that struck me as odd. So i proceeded to shoe the the cop my 30 page spiralbound new york and the five boros street atlas and guide whereupon i asked her to show me one page that isn't/wouldn't be considered a drug zone. which caused a large amount of hilarity and amusement to the situation. whereupon i was told to get the hell out of dodge and immediately proceeded to do just that. being that i had what i did indeed come for.The jokes on who?:rolleyes:

You handled that perfectly, you used humor to establish a rapport and throw off the probing nature of the question. Good work!