Potentiators...

[SafeHaven]

I read somewhere that grapefruit juice potentiates certain opiates. anyone know the reason for this? also, does it matter whether its ruby grapefruit or white grapefruit? any feedback would be appreciated...

[Paregoric Kid]

it inhibits the intestinal cytochrome P-450 3A4 system (specifically CYP3A4-mediated drug metabolism) which is responsible for the first-pass metabolism of many drugs.
white grapefruit is more potent

[jacky]

lots of other things potentiate opiates. antideppressants are notorious. the obvious shit like alcohol and benzo,s ( seems like most OD,s are associated with these, I know mine was.) cats claw herb, and a host of other herbs most likely......memantine, TAGAMET. I think the word potentiate sometimes should really be lengthen, some compounds keep the opiates in your body longer....which can be a good tool for the user.

[Paregoric Kid]

memantine is a partial NMDA antagonist which could lower your tolerance but I think dextromethorphan might work better. Memantine is not available in the US at this time. It is in stage 3 trials for Alzheimer’s disease. US approval may come within the next 2 years. Memantine is now approved in the European Union for the treatment of Alzheimer’s. It has been marketed in Germany since 1978 for the treatment of dementia and other cognitive disorders. It comes in 10mg tablets. One or two tablets/day are sufficient to prevent opiate/amphetamine tolerance, overactivity of the NMDA receptor and consequent free radical stress inside the neuron. The most expensive option though.
benzos add to it but I get really bad memory loss if I use to big a dose. when I first started using opiates/opioids I was on prozac, then effexor, I got more fucked up than I ever did back then but I think it is a case of tolerance than antidepressants potentiating. there was a period after prozac and before effexor and it still worked great for me, so I don't think it made all that much of a difference, but definitly some. alcohol is never good to me, when I drink more than a few beers or a few shots I end up getting really sick, last time I drank a lot with opiates I threw up blood the next morning.
immodium can potentiate but you could get really constipated as a result.
diphenhydramine and other antihistamines are great for potentiating in my expierience
tagamet works too, just like grapefruit juice it inhibits CYP2D6

[doctor diesel]

Does anyone know if ranitidine works as a potentiator, and also lansoprazole? Tagamet tabs used to be widely available here in the UK, but they've vanished over the past couple of years - can't think why. I take daily lansoprazole (zoton) for G.E.R.D. (reflux) and I can get ranitidine over the counter.

Thanks,

Diesel

[replicant76]

do these potentiators work with all opiates or just heroin?

[jacky]

I think you need to consider each opiate on its own, some opioids have quite different chemical structures, some drugs work to potentiate by stopping enyme destruction of opiates, some potentiate the ability of binding inhibition perhaps, or complement opiates by creating added somniferic effects. I have read that Uncaria (cats claw) stops the destruction of methadone and thus potentiates that drug, but perhaps this might work with other opiates, in my experience I THINK that it does. perhaps cats claw also stops the enzyme destruction of endogenous opiates as well, which may have an added effect for helping with rheumatic pain? doing interent searches/consulting a doctor, reading books is a good idea when considering trying to augment the effects of opiates in these ways.

[Endorph]

cat's claw eh? hmm, haven't heard of that one.. is it an herb? think i should give it a whirl jacky?

[jacky]

consult your local DR......I take mine in the standardized 4% extract, as the raw herb contains more like.3% alkaloids....this cats claw herb and kratom actually have some familiar chemistry, it would be interesting if cats claw would also effect kratom as well? I dont endorse anyone do anything on a whim, herbs can have serious side effects, cats claw may affect a person on opioids in a NEGATIVE way as well, that is why in the literature there are warnings about consuming cats claw with methadone or buprenorphine.

[replicant76]

cats claw would also effect kratom as well? I dont endorse anyone do anything on a whim, herbs can have serious side effects, cats claw may affect a person on opioids in a NEGATIVE way as well, that is why in the literature there are warnings about consuming cats claw with methadone or buprenorphine.

jacky , do u know something we dont about cat's claw and kratom? if so, please share.

[Perspect]

Is it really worth it messing around with the pH-balance in the stomach by supplying baking soda and such? I can only imagine it would induce major nausea. Otherwise, how much should one take, a tablespoon or so in half a glass of water I've heard been recommended?

[COLONELWAYNE]

The grapefruit juice thing worked fantastic for me !!! At first I thought "bullshit" but then again, what did I have to lose? a $1.59 for a pint of juice I could just pour out if I didn't like? Anyway I had "nasally induced" an oc 40 an hour or so earlier and thought the ride was all but over and was kinda thirsty.Went into a quickstop,happened to see a pint of "DOLE" ruby red grapefruit juice and remembered reading here about the effects of this stuff with opiates.Gulped down 16 ozs.as fast as I could and 10-15 minutes later if that long I had another rush going that was stronger than the original!!!and it lasted 30 maybe 45 minutes before I noticed it tapering off! So go figure! Maybe just a freak one time thing for it to be that intense but I'll definitely gamble on the splurge again! Made a believer out of me! Kratom is what I can't get to produce results.Any suggestions anyone? How much should it usually take for a 180lb man? And does anyone know if there has been any extensive research done as far as long term effects on the "liver"? with this stuff.I know the last I tried in brew form and it wasn't a very large amount made me feel kind of sickly the next day and gave me a headache which is something I never have!I noticed I kind of felt tender and swelled in the general area around my liver.Maybe it's just a coincedence or maybe I was kind of paranoid because I remembered reading this article years ago about some kid who brewed the wrong kind of mushrooms in his tea and died a few months later waiting on a"liver transplant" as a result.Don't want a rush to the cemetary, I just want a rush!

[replicant76]

The grapefruit juice thing worked fantastic for me !!! At first I thought "bullshit" but then again, what did I have to lose? a $1.59 for a pint of juice I could just pour out if I didn't like? Anyway I had "nasally induced" an oc 40 an hour or so earlier and thought the ride was all but over and was kinda thirsty.Went into a quickstop,happened to see a pint of "DOLE" ruby red grapefruit juice and remembered reading here about the effects of this stuff with opiates.Gulped down 16 ozs.as fast as I could and 10-15 minutes later if that long I had another rush going that was stronger than the original!!!and it lasted 30 maybe 45 minutes before I noticed it tapering off! So go figure! Maybe just a freak one time thing for it to be that intense but I'll definitely gamble on the splurge again! Made a believer out of me! Kratom is what I can't get to produce results.Any suggestions anyone? How much should it usually take for a 180lb man? And does anyone know if there has been any extensive research done as far as long term effects on the "liver"? with this stuff.I know the last I tried in brew form and it wasn't a very large amount made me feel kind of sickly the next day and gave me a headache which is something I never have!I noticed I kind of felt tender and swelled in the general area around my liver.Maybe it's just a coincedence or maybe I was kind of paranoid because I remembered reading this article years ago about some kid who brewed the wrong kind of mushrooms in his tea and died a few months later waiting on a"liver transplant" as a result.Don't want a rush to the cemetary, I just want a rush!

well i weigh about 230 and i use 6-8 grams regular leaf everyday with the erowid recipe. but i will give u my exact recipe:
6-8 grams regular strength powdered kratom in a mason jar
fill it just above the kratom with 110 proof vodka
nuke for 15 secs. by then the alcohol kinda soaked into the kratom
fill with the vodka again just above (just enough to wet it) the kratom
nuke for 10 secs, strain it into a coffee cup using a tea strainer
put the kratom back into the mason jar add 1 tsp chamomile and 1.5 tsp kava
put 80-90 ml of water in the jar
nuke for 45 secs then let it sit in the micro for about 5 mins to steep (may not be necessary)
nuke for 10 more secs
strain into same coffee cup as the alcohol extraction (keep the kratom, can be water extracted 1 more time later)
pour about 12 oz grapefruit juice in a glass, add the kratom extraction
drink up (iff u added enough juice u should just barely taste the kratom)
about 20 mins l8tr u will have a good nod going

[replicant76]

I think you need to consider each opiate on its own, some opioids have quite different chemical structures, some drugs work to potentiate by stopping enyme destruction of opiates, some potentiate the ability of binding inhibition perhaps, or complement opiates by creating added somniferic effects. I have read that Uncaria (cats claw) stops the destruction of methadone and thus potentiates that drug, but perhaps this might work with other opiates, in my experience I THINK that it does. perhaps cats claw also stops the enzyme destruction of endogenous opiates as well, which may have an added effect for helping with rheumatic pain? doing interent searches/consulting a doctor, reading books is a good idea when considering trying to augment the effects of opiates in these ways.

does anyone have any idea what cats claw has to do with kratom?

[COLONELWAYNE]

Much obliged rep 76,next time I run out of the other,I'll definitely give your formula a try! Thanks again and I'll let you know how it worked for me. Later C.W.:hangloose :hangloose

[sp33dballin]

here ya go, this website is very useful for what youre looking for. hope it helps!
-steve
http://adhpage.tripod.com/potentiators.htm

[Peripat]

Cheers, sp33dballin (and welcome to the forum, by the way!), that page looks like such an interesting read, I've bookmarked it. I'm also going to post it over at the oxycontin forum here at opiophile, since it might help someone who was asking a similar question about oxys.

[Paregoric Kid]

Does anyone know if ranitidine works as a potentiator, and also lansoprazole? Tagamet tabs used to be widely available here in the UK, but they've vanished over the past couple of years - can't think why. I take daily lansoprazole (zoton) for G.E.R.D. (reflux) and I can get ranitidine over the counter.
Thanks,
Diesel
Ranitidine, in regularly prescribed doses, has a weak effect of inhibiting cytochrome p-450. I've ran out of tagamet so I've recently been using triple doses (450mg) of 3 year old ranitidines to try and get the same effect.

[salutaridine]

cats claw herb will work the same way

[Nuke]

As a general rule of thumb you shouldn't mix anything with heroin, most OD deaths come in consequence of depressants interactions, alcohol, benzos barbs mainly. I've only heard of people using potentiators when they have only a very smal amount of H. If anything I would use hydroxyzine which stops you from scratching and potentiates a bit, other than that, I would say is just playing with fire.

[katomic]

I used epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) 4 grams the other day good for constipation that comes with opate use as well as the magnesium acting on the NMDA recepter! should quiten down stomach acid too with out the consipation. cheap too!

[Dr Benway]

I tried "Milk of Magnesia" as suggested by Paregoric Kid (in some other link). It actually worked, but it did give me diarrhea. Another potentiator I use occasionally is "Hyoscine". I buy it over the counter in any chemist as cure for travel sickness. I usually take two tablets which is 600mcg. It will make your skin and mouth feel dry with a pounding heart if you take to much. Hyoscine is very toxic if you misuse. The most Iv ever taken is 1.2mg (4 tablets) and that was uncomfortable. But my all time favourite, with any opiate, is cannabis. Normally hash and sometimes green. Works better than any other potentiators Iv tried. The one I havent heard anyone mention is Thomas De Quincey's favourite, Tea! A very refreshing and subtle potentiator. I s'pose tea is an english thing. But I love getting up in the morning with a cuppa tea a pipe and a shot.
...oooh its divine....

[milky_tears]

Have a look here:- http://www.atforum.com/mdi_booklet.shtml for some interesting info on the subject of drug/herb interactions with methadone. Have to try a few!

Cool! Just read it again propperly, and I've got cupboards full of both Tagamet and Omeprazole for my acid reflux and 'coz I've got an ulcer. (At 25!.. Don't drink and do drugs kids!)

[SuperJunky]

I have some 1mg naltrexone pills a friend of mine left at my house. In K. Trouts paper on opiate tolerance he mentions using minuscule amounts of an opiate antagonist to increase the affects of opiate agonists.

An interesting approach is the combination of opiates with the opiate antagonists naloxone or naltrexone in miniscule amounts. The combination of less than 0.001% of what would be a normal dose of the antagonist with an opiate allows a far greater response (“at least 50%”) to the opiate which in turn permits a much lower effective dose to be used. It is also said to prevent respiratory depression, tolerance and addiction. This approach has apparently been patented (Crain & Shen 1996) and is being commercially developed by Pain Therapeutics. [R.A.H. 2000; Crain & Shen 2000]

What would be 0.001% of a normal dose of naltrexone? I took a 1mg pill, dumped it out, split the powder in half, mixed half of it with 1cc of water and figured that if I sue about 1.5 units (using a syringe to measure) that would give me about 1/128th of a milligram. I just draw up a tiny amount and add it to my shot. I used only half the dope I normally would and it gave me just as good of a high, with a more intense rush, as if I had of used my full dose but it wore off quicker. Any one else tried this or know anything about how this works?

[Paregoric Kid]

yes I think some pharm companies are researching the use of combining a small amount of an antagonist with an agonist for the purpose of potentiating AND to slow the development of tolerance.

[Evolbeaver]

my friends and i used to play up a rumor that we heard that fatty foods would make oxycontin effect you more. Whenever we would do lines of oxy we would always go get some greasy double cheeseburgers. I don't know where the fuck we heard that, or have any idea if it ever worked, but it was fun. Anyone else ever hear that about fatty foods?

[nephalim]

I have spent literally years chasing that virgin high, and can share a lot on potentiators.

DXM, Dextromethorphan, might work a little in the beginning, but long-term has no real significant effect.

Grapefruit juice works for some opiates by inhibiting the liver enzymes that break them down.
Tagament/Cimetidine (OTC in the states, for heartburn,) "" ""

Note that you should NOT inhibit liver enzymes for the codones - and this even includes oxycodone, moreso hydrocodone, but ESPECIALLY plain codeine (which is completely a pro-drug - it's converted to morphine) - you want to do the opposite, and good luck doing that, only things I can find are phenobarbital or if you are god and can get your hands on glutethimide (something similar to 'ludes they don't make anymore, N-A-S-T-Y stuff.) They used to mix it with T4's (codeine), it was called "doors and fours" I believe.

Now, we come to the only real "tolerance reducing" agents that exist:
A) Ultra-low-dose Naltrexone (perhaps another antagonist would work just as well.)
B) Buprenorphine

Describing ULD Naltrexone is too much for me right now. Search google or ADH. A good dose is 0.025mg. Anything else worth mentioning, you can't get.

(Obviously, other depressants can "potentiate" opiates.)

In the end, there is no magic pill that will make your tolerance go away. Not yet.

[milky_tears]

What about a cyanide pill, placed under the tongue like so...



(Sorry)

[duke_nemmerle]

What about a cyanide pill, placed under the tongue like so...



(Sorry)

rofl - meaniehead alert - haha

[Mild_Man]

I have spent literally years chasing that virgin high, and can share a lot on potentiators.

DXM, Dextromethorphan, might work a little in the beginning, but long-term has no real significant effect.

Grapefruit juice works for some opiates by inhibiting the liver enzymes that break them down.
Tagament/Cimetidine (OTC in the states, for heartburn,) "" ""

Note that you should NOT inhibit liver enzymes for the codones - and this even includes oxycodone, moreso hydrocodone, but ESPECIALLY plain codeine (which is completely a pro-drug - it's converted to morphine) - you want to do the opposite, and good luck doing that, only things I can find are phenobarbital or if you are god and can get your hands on glutethimide (something similar to 'ludes they don't make anymore, N-A-S-T-Y stuff.) They used to mix it with T4's (codeine), it was called "doors and fours" I believe.

Now, we come to the only real "tolerance reducing" agents that exist:
A) Ultra-low-dose Naltrexone (perhaps another antagonist would work just as well.)
B) Buprenorphine

Describing ULD Naltrexone is too much for me right now. Search google or ADH. A good dose is 0.025mg. Anything else worth mentioning, you can't get.

(Obviously, other depressants can "potentiate" opiates.)

In the end, there is no magic pill that will make your tolerance go away. Not yet.

What if someone drank grapefruit juice after letting the hydrocodone metabolize partailly into hydromorphone? Since you'd be inhibiting the breakdown of the hydrocodone after it's already been partially metabolized into hydromorphone.

[bogumil]

Hey,

this reply might also fit into the chmistry forum, but it is about potentiating stuff.
I personally dont use heroin, but I know someone, who does and he did the following and I can say with 100% that it is true.

I dont know how it is in the US and in Canada, but in Europe people basically get the crude brownish heroin base. When you snort this it isnt absorbed very well. Much of it is swallowed or just dires in the nose. Salts are always better because they enter the system faster and more complete. The procedure below doesnt make the heroin itself stronger but the effects will be stronger when snorted, maybe even when smoked, I cant say that cause I never smoked heroin. The reason is that it enters the system faster and completely. So SWIM did the following with great success:

1. He put 1 drop of HCl (25%) to 50 drops of distilled Water.
2. He took the heroin base, about 0.5 gr. and added 50 drops of dH2O.
3. Swirled it a bit.
4. Added the Hcl he had made up drop by drop until everything had dissolved.
5. Messured the pH with hydronium paper. At pH 5 he stopped.
- He overshooted to pH 4, so he added sodiumtricarbonate (Na2CO3), to bring the pH up to 5 again.
6. He dried it in the ofen at 50C with a fan blowing over it.

The took a long time and it will be sticky in the beginning. It has to be chopped into smaller pieces from time to time, those dry faster and after one day youre left with a darker powder that has much better effects than the base.

If you worry about the long drying, take bigger amounts (if you are so lucky to have some supply and money).

Its really worth a try. It is way stronger and it hurts less in the nose than the base, when the pH is adjusted correctly to 5. Says SWIM.