PDA

View Full Version : Cocaine to Aid Opiate Withdrawal ?



More Feen
04-11-2009, 11:43 PM
I was curious if anyone knows what the effects are if someone was going through ~moderate opiate withdrawal and wanted to use cocaine (sniff/snort) to help feel better.

1- Of course coke will do nothing to tickle the (screaming) opiate receptors, but the drug does tend to make a person feel good---> better, no?

From reading many many posts here, benzo-tranquillizers seem to be the best thing for treating WDs (besides the obvious, more opies :D ).

If one only had access to coke, would that help, or simply intensify the horror of withdrawal?

Thanks for your input!

M. F.

P.S. Sigmund Freud advocated the use of cocaine for the treatment of morphine addiction; granted, some of his work was hit & miss in some areas. I figured there's a few people reading this who have first-hand, or at least "swim-hand" experience that they could share--gracias!

SHELLEY
04-11-2009, 11:45 PM
cocaine makes ya forget you're even kicking
until you run out
then you feel even worse
if you're gonna get some yay for w/d, my suggestion is, don't run out

Rent
04-11-2009, 11:48 PM
It effects everyone differently. It helped me, but for others it just made wd worse

PrisonHer
04-11-2009, 11:48 PM
^ absolutly right. I once said to my homegirl "man if I could get my hands on a bunch of coke I could stop using dope" and then she said "but then you'd have one hell of a coke habit" about right. It works for a few minutes but you will feel like a dump druck just hit you..twice..if you're still sick when you come down. And you'll never feel *right* you'll still feel like your dope sick..only on coke.

SHELLEY
04-11-2009, 11:58 PM
^ absolutly right. I once said to my homegirl "man if I could get my hands on a bunch of coke I could stop using dope" and then she said "but then you'd have one hell of a coke habit" about right. It works for a few minutes but you will feel like a dump druck just hit you..twice..if you're still sick when you come down. And you'll never feel *right* you'll still feel like your dope sick..only on coke.

i dunno about that, i feel fuckin great as long as the coke holds out
although in that situation, you either gotta make plans to get some dope at the end of the day
or tweak for a week, whichthefuckever

More Feen
04-11-2009, 11:59 PM
^ absolutly right. I once said to my homegirl "man if I could get my hands on a bunch of coke I could stop using dope" and then she said "but then you'd have one hell of a coke habit" about right. It works for a few minutes but you will feel like a dump druck just hit you..twice..if you're still sick when you come down. And you'll never feel *right* you'll still feel like your dope sick..only on coke.


I was worried about something like that. Not knowing much about coke and ultimate effects. I could imagine it could ease opiate withdrawal, or make it nightmarishly more horrible.

Thanks for the info !

M F

libertine
04-12-2009, 12:08 AM
ahahah
cocaine makes ya forget you're even kicking
until you run out
then you feel even worse
if you're gonna get some yay for w/d, my suggestion is, don't run out


that is the fuckin' truth. same goes for meth, as long as it's runnin' through your veins, up your nose, or in your lungs, you won't even remember you we're cluckin, but time is a motherfucker

NOLA
04-12-2009, 01:10 AM
It definitely helps, but I think I would much rather xanax, while just trying to wait it out.

I've done coke a few times during WDs, but never during VERY serious WDs, just basically mild one's. So for mild WDs it definitely helped me out for a few days, but I'm thinking under worse conditions, it would probably just aggravate me, but who knows.

HandMeSomeOpiates
04-12-2009, 01:14 AM
Fuck Coke, get some Vyvanse. That shit will make you forget your kicking and 1 pill lasts 12 fuckin hours. Vyvanse is no joke, its pretty much ER Dexedrine(it actually is). It won't get you high but will add mood elevation and energy, and I swear to you 1 pill in the morning and you're telling yourself, what W/D???

NOLA
04-12-2009, 01:14 AM
Fuck Coke, get some Vyvanse. That shit will make you forget your kicking and 1 pill lasts 12 fuckin hours. Vyvanse is no joke, its pretty much ER Dexedrine, but I swear to you 1 pill in the morning and you're telling yourself, what W/D???

Where do you get that? I've never heard of it.

HandMeSomeOpiates
04-12-2009, 01:25 AM
Where do you get that? I've never heard of it.
It is prescribed for ADD(which I have). I guess saying "go get some vyvanse" is easier said than done haha But honestly the doc would be happy to give out vyvanse than adderall or ritalin. It is a schedule II but it's a pro-drug, and cannot be abused(shot up, or snorted, which doctors love). I have been prescribed both adderall and ritalin and vyvanse surpasses them both in treating my ADD........and opiate W/D's :p

NOLA
04-12-2009, 01:30 AM
It is prescribed for ADD(which I have). I guess saying "go get some vyvanse" is easier said than done haha But honestly the doc would be happy to give out vyvanse than adderall or ritalin. It is a schedule II but it's a pro-drug, and cannot be abused(shot up, or snorted, which doctors love). I have been prescribed both adderall and ritalin and vyvanse surpasses them both in treating my ADD........and opiate W/D's :p

Hmm.. Sounds pretty interesting.

Thanks for the tip.

JonnyM
04-12-2009, 01:53 AM
The one time I used coke in withdrawal it literally stopped all the effects for a good 7 minutes, then it was a straight shute down to hell....


Double edged sword if there ever was one.

ryan
04-12-2009, 05:30 PM
Very bad idea, especially if you are injecting it or smoking base...when you come down you will be dopesick AND uber paranoid almost to the point of psychosis. I've done this before and started halucinating and shit when the coke wore off, like a very bad lsd trip that you can't come out of.

nick
04-12-2009, 05:35 PM
I've actually tried to detox using coke and.................I'm still here.


I read about this type of detox in James Lee's journey to the east(excellent read) and there is historic presidents for using coke for opiate detox.These days it's not practical unless you have access to a LOT of coke.So,don't try this at home kids-unless you're part of a cartel.

SHELLEY
04-12-2009, 05:36 PM
^
i've managed to make it work several times over, and i'm not columbian

ZodiacKiller
04-12-2009, 06:32 PM
Heh, yeah, I'll chime in, too: coke has helped me in WD, but as everyone sez: once you run out or come down, it's pretty sucky.


ZK

KiloByte
04-12-2009, 06:36 PM
Well the question is do you have pot/benzos to help you get to sleep after using the coke? That makes a world of difference.

More Feen
04-12-2009, 11:51 PM
The one time I used coke in withdrawal it literally stopped all the effects for a good 7 minutes, then it was a straight shute down to hell....


Double edged sword if there ever was one.


Your response Jonny M-hawk made me laugh--and is still making me laugh. I think this would be the most likely situation--true, but funny and well stated !

You get points now.

M. F.

losangeleslifer
04-13-2009, 12:05 AM
The only thing coke is good for is putting dollars in your pocket, or taking dollars out of your pocket.

suffocate
04-13-2009, 06:34 AM
In my opinion, using cocaine during opiate withdrawals is a bad idea. Although you'll probably forget about the WD symptoms and feel good for a few minutes after taking that rail/shot, once you start to come down off the cocaine you'll be back at square one - plus you'll be anxious, sketchy, and sleep will (for myself at least) be more difficult.

Benzodiazepines are definately the way to go... at least in terms of making one feel more comfortable throughout the wholly unpleasant experience.

OxiContinKing
04-13-2009, 06:58 AM
I thought for sure that this thread would be pretty much one sided, and it is, but not the side that i thought it would be leaning towards.

I just dont see how being jacked up on cocaine can aid in wd's, although from everyones response, it must help...

I just know personally the last thing i want to be while im in opie wd is to be jacked up...

Like previous posters have said, maybe if i had like an oz at my disposal, so once i started getting high off cocaine, i wouldnt have to worry about coming down, because im sure thats double shitty. wd's ontop of coming down off of coke? no thanks, ill pass. besides, im not an upper type of person at all. thats why opies are my DOC.

runormal
04-13-2009, 10:44 AM
I always thought it worked well right in the beginning of w/d as it took my mind off of what was coming next and I'd go out with a last night of fun. But during the puking and shits (and coke sure doesn't help with the shits!!!) I would stay away from it. Then when I was just tired and aching sure then some blow would get me up and moving about the last day or two until I was in the clear. Its something to do but still could always feel the sick in my stomach etc.

nycjrt
04-13-2009, 07:01 PM
i dunno coke depression on top of the wd effects (including the amplified coke shits) never did it for me- it can work if you are using subs though, to get through second or third day when you are feeling better, but want to do something, and d is out of the question due to all the bupe in your system...

SHELLEY
04-13-2009, 07:16 PM
The only thing coke is good for is putting dollars in your pocket, or taking dollars out of your pocket.

ya know there is a point, however breif it is, where you actually break even :D

webay
04-13-2009, 07:31 PM
It's definitely a preference thing.One time i was sick and needed to bag up so i figured id do a few lines to help me do it quicker. It helped..For about 5 minutes then it was one of the worst experiences of my life..and i tried to do more did not help..I dont understand how it can stop you from throwing up or the pain an anxiety just amplified it times 100 for me thank god for subs

Larry
04-13-2009, 08:48 PM
The thought of a nasty coke come down during massive withdrawls, Makes me sick to my stomach Just Thinking About IT!

During WD one of my worst symptoms is stomach cramps / excruciating pain and to throw coke into that seems to magnify the effects by 1000x.

sweet pea
04-14-2009, 12:25 PM
Well the question is do you have pot/benzos to help you get to sleep after using the coke? That makes a world of difference.

exactly what i'm saying. the coke takes your mind off of things for a night, then pop some xanax and/or kpins & pass out. and it works. but, i'd rather just save my $$$, skip the middle-man (coke) and pop some kpins, (and alcohol perhaps), pass out.

Papa Verine
04-14-2009, 02:01 PM
I wouldn't even think of it! Downers for W/D's...

More Feen
04-14-2009, 02:06 PM
It sounds like if someone has a ~heavy opiate tolerance where withdrawal would cause vomiting and other strong effects, coke would not be helpful at all.

It also sounds like if you have a fairly mild tolerance, where WD causes craving and maybe some leg cramping (aka Jimmy-Legs), coke may help "forget" the opiate craving--for a short time.

I'm pretty sure this is how Sigmund Freud intended cocaine to be used as an aid for kicking Morphine (specifically mentioned).

Although he was not terribly specific regarding the form of cocaine and route of administration. He championed Vin Mariani--a concoction of red wine and coca extracts with a ~fairly high level of cocaine: 6mg --7.2mg per ounce.

With regards to costs and the short duration of snorted coke, it might make more sense to create a form similar to Vin Mariani. One can use coca tea (Mate de coca).

Instead of making coca tea using hot water, one can let several tea bags effuse in a container of wine at room temperature for an hour or so. The used tea bags can be squeezed and removed and fresh bags inserted--one should experiment with the proper amount suitable for your needs.

A very close friend of a friend has tried this in conjuction with minor opiate WD. He has reoprted to me that using homemade Vin Mariani (in addition to plain coca tea, and using the tea bags orally with sodium bicarb, or lime (calcium hydroxide) to aid in oral mucosa absorption) has been quite helpful.

Using coca in this longer-acting way has a smoother onset (boring), but also a more-gradual let down (a blessing).

He relates the following:

Day 1 Cold Turkinskii : Minor, minor craving of an opiate, very minor restless legs, use and preparation of various coca preps helped occupy his mind with other thoughts.

Day 2 Cold Turkinskii : Very little craving for opiates. Feels quite good. Barely perceptible aching in legs. Although he had opiates available, he did not feel that he needed to use them.

Day 3 Cold Turkinskii : Absolutely no craving for opiates. He felt well. As a test, he took a moderate dose of his DOC (opiate) and it did not make him feel any better. He reported that it was really hard to even feel the opiate's effects!

Summary: There are many facets regarding addiction: tolerance, habituation, psychological components, physiological components. For those taking a fairly low dose of opiates (but can't quite stop completely), use of coca products can stimulate the "reward centre" of the brain and help remove the psych component of opiate addiction.

This might be all that is needed to help someone reduce, or stop their use of opiates.

Next step would be to try and take Cold Turkey withdrawal out 7 days or more, instead of just 3.

Regarding the use of coca products, in the forms mentioned above (no use of refined cocaine what-so-ever) there is strong evidence that abruptly stopping their use doesn't cause withdrawal. You can read about Peruvian coca leaf chewers quiting and experiencing nothing more than decreased productivity.

Lastly (for now), consuming coca products with alcohol causes the creation of cocaethylene in the liver. This drug is longer-lasting, stronger and more cardio-toxic than if alcohol is not taken.

If you plan to try this, keep this toxicity in mind--especially if you have heart problems. Moderation should be a goal that we strive towards, in all aspects of life. But sometimes, that's just so damn hard to do !

M. F.

NOLA
04-14-2009, 02:38 PM
^^^ I agree.

It's definitely worthwhile for smaller WDs, but would be a nightmare with anything more serious, I would imagine.

I've only used it with slight symptoms, such as aching legs, which works. But for anything more than that, especially if nauseous, I wouldn't even think about it.

marhatch
05-02-2009, 04:20 AM
I've Got sort-of mixed experinces using coke to ease W/D- I'm a very long time, heavy fent patch user and found that I can cut my fent dose WAY down while on Coke and not think twice about it. If I had say- 2-3 weeks supply of C, I could easly taper off the fent and do ok. Yes, then I would be addicted to Coke, but I know from experience that its much easier to kick that than opiates. Now on the other hand, I have tried to use C AFTER the fent withdraw was already in full hell mode and it really did not help.

Another thing- I too am given Vyvance and what they were saying is absolutly true... 12 hours, better than ritilan etc. I really think the Vyvance is the reason I have not needed to increase my fent dose in the past couple years. it actually helps with the perception of pain (one of opiates qualities). Im in a better mood and we all know depression and pain go hand-in hand


PS: Freud did use coke for morphine addiction but later wrote " it was like trading the devil for beeazlbub"

Duckfeet
05-02-2009, 10:36 AM
I was kicking dilaudids once, and a friend brought me a shot of cocaine....and I felt great--as always--for about 3-10 seconds, then withdrawals returned, along w/coke paranoia and hyper-sensitivity to *any* fucking thing...horrible

Fuck that....makes it much worse...

DCBA
05-02-2009, 11:45 AM
I was kicking dilaudids once, and a friend brought me a shot of cocaine....and I felt great--as always--for about 3-10 seconds, then withdrawals returned, along w/coke paranoia and hyper-sensitivity to *any* fucking thing...horrible

Fuck that....makes it much worse...

My words exactly!

resorcinol
05-11-2009, 02:57 AM
Stimulant euphoria can totally cancel the misery of w/d (proof that it's really not the physical shit, which is obviously still there, bothering us, but rather the mental agony) - so perhaps it is the precipitous fall in dopamine release in the NAc shell that makes w/d seem so fucking awful, since uppers can completely obliterate w/d worries even though a look at your body shows sweating and gooseflesh still happening. Oddly, the hot / cold flashes are canceled by uppers when you'd expect a sympathomimetic to worsen them ...... perhaps they don't stop, you just don't notice because you feel so good.

BUT... opioid w/d lasts for a week for all acute symptoms to go away. Staying up on adderall for more than one night starts some crazy shit for me... and it'd be worse in w/d due to the other brain chemical changes in addition to the amphetamine psychosis.

Thebane
05-11-2009, 03:18 AM
Stimulant euphoria can totally cancel the misery of w/d (proof that it's really not the physical shit, which is obviously still there, bothering us, but rather the mental agony) - so perhaps it is the precipitous fall in dopamine release in the NAc shell that makes w/d seem so fucking awful, since uppers can completely obliterate w/d worries even though a look at your body shows sweating and gooseflesh still happening. Oddly, the hot / cold flashes are canceled by uppers when you'd expect a sympathomimetic to worsen them ...... perhaps they don't stop, you just don't notice because you feel so good.

BUT... opioid w/d lasts for a week for all acute symptoms to go away. Staying up on adderall for more than one night starts some crazy shit for me... and it'd be worse in w/d due to the other brain chemical changes in addition to the amphetamine psychosis.

This is a bit off-topic, but do you happen to know anything about other (as in not euphoric stimulants) drugs which increase dopamine and help withdrawals in that way? I think there's been a post or two about legal supplements supposed to do this, so I'm rather interested since I'll be kicking soon, hopefully, though God only knows how many times I've said that.

I have around 60 mg. of adderall, but I doubt that will help me for more than 24 hours - considering that after a year of on and off use I just get mildly buzzed after 20-30 mg. and don't feel much at all from 10. I've never taken enough to get a real "high," because I can't eat at all on doses higher than I take and sooner or later I get too nauseous to swallow kratom/pods to get well and that really blows - looking at a bag of kratom or pods and not being able to swallow any without throwing up a minute or two afterwards. So I'm wondering if there's anything that may help boost dopamine without being adderall which I don't have much of and has pretty bad side-effects for me.

Also, (sorry for the long post) do you notice at all if adderall (or other uppers) help your kick be over quicker? Assuming you've used it in a kick and not just to feel better when you were finding more opies. On a normal day adderall seems to make opiates clear my system much faster, but this might not effect the total w/d time, though it seems like it might.

Edit: Obviously I took too much adderall today if I'm still posting at 5:20. :rolleyes:

Morfiend
05-11-2009, 12:21 PM
Phenibut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenibut) stimulates dopamine receptors and seems to help quite a bit. Tho you probably saw that right below this thread http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=23537 lol.

You can buy it on Amazon.com

Thebane
05-11-2009, 01:37 PM
Phenibut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenibut) stimulates dopamine receptors and seems to help quite a bit. Tho you probably saw that right below this thread http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=23537 lol.

You can buy it on Amazon.com

Thanks for the link/tip. I missed that thread somehow. I'll research it and if I give it a go I'll post my results.

oxy kid
10-06-2009, 04:25 PM
I've wondered about Adderall helping w/ds. Every morning when I wake up and take my addy, I really feel like it helps. Especially if there is about .5-1mg of kpin thrown into the mix to take the edge off the adderall. Thoughts?

SHELLEY
10-06-2009, 07:30 PM
I've wondered about Adderall helping w/ds. Every morning when I wake up and take my addy, I really feel like it helps. Especially if there is about .5-1mg of kpin thrown into the mix to take the edge off the adderall. Thoughts?

dude, just ride it out

mikey5string
10-06-2009, 07:36 PM
... If I had say- 2-3 weeks supply of C, I could easly taper off the fent and do ok. .....

man, how could you have a 2-3 week supply of coke? seems like however much i have is a 1 looooong night supply ;)

SHELLEY
10-06-2009, 07:39 PM
man, how could you have a 2-3 week supply of coke? seems like however much i have is a 1 looooong night supply ;)

or maybe the next morning

More Feen
10-07-2009, 10:43 PM
Stimulant euphoria can totally cancel the misery of w/d (proof that it's really not the physical shit, which is obviously still there, bothering us, but rather the mental agony) - so perhaps it is the precipitous fall in dopamine release in the NAc shell that makes w/d seem so fucking awful, since uppers can completely obliterate w/d worries even though a look at your body shows sweating and gooseflesh still happening. Oddly, the hot / cold flashes are canceled by uppers when you'd expect a sympathomimetic to worsen them ...... perhaps they don't stop, you just don't notice because you feel so good.

BUT... opioid w/d lasts for a week for all acute symptoms to go away. Staying up on adderall for more than one night starts some crazy shit for me... and it'd be worse in w/d due to the other brain chemical changes in addition to the amphetamine psychosis.


NAc = Nucleus Accumbans?

M F

analogyawn
03-21-2012, 08:58 PM
man, how could you have a 2-3 week supply of coke? seems like however much i have is a 1 looooong night supply ;)

LOL so awesome.

I'll be trying to do coke during my upcoming w/ds (friday, I'm set to go). I'll report back. I don't have much. Maybe .5 gram. .75 maybe.

danny
03-22-2012, 06:38 AM
LOL so awesome.

I'll be trying to do coke during my upcoming w/ds (friday, I'm set to go). I'll report back. I don't have much. Maybe .5 gram. .75 maybe.

honestly mate, dont fuck with that pissant amount of coke if youre doing a rattle, i personally am too lily livered to try it full stop, but the general consensus (read this thread again) is go big or go home...that amount of coke will have you good for half an hour and then ten times worse afterwards.my personal advice fwiw is stimulants + w/d = bad idea...

sorry for bringing this lazarus like thread back from the dead...

Dr. McKay
03-22-2012, 07:17 AM
I had a few friends that would always get some coke when they ran out of opiates. They used to swear by it.
Never tried it myself though.

Benz
03-22-2012, 09:09 AM
Just my two pennies worth, it's quite well known around where I live that people who inject their gear inject speed or smoke crack when they don't have heroin.

The universal consensus is that you are only getting a brief respite & the withdrawls are more hellacious when you inevitably come down. Cocaine in particular probably makes you feel especially bad on the way down, coke causes the brain to produce more opioid receptors. When these aren't filled, you will feel worse w/ds.

This effect of cocaine is responsible for the lure of the speedball & why taking gear at the end of a coke bender is more satisfying than other sedatives.



Benz

SHELLEY
03-22-2012, 09:13 AM
i've dropped my opiate dose/tolly a shitload just by smoking a lot of crack and doing speed
last month i was smoking a fent patch on top of 200mg morph shots just in the morning to wake up
now i'm pretty cool using every other day
the shit WORKS

danny
03-22-2012, 09:26 AM
^fair play shell, it is what it is, but im right about saying go big or go home aint i? half a g aint even gonna make a tiny dent in a habit is it?

iriewon
03-22-2012, 09:29 AM
^fair play shell, it is what it is, but im right about saying go big or go home aint i? half a g aint even gonna make a tiny dent in a habit is it?

helllll no it aint...thats gonna land dude in a world of hurt 1000x's worse than he already was....id say an 8ball a night minimum imo!!! and even that might not be enough...ugh like i've said before you couldnt pay me to take stimulants in wd. just the thought makes me shivver

Count Zero
03-22-2012, 09:44 AM
I haven't done coke or had serious w/ds in years but the thought of combining the two makes me want to crawl into a corner shut my eyes and make it go far away. Ugh.

SHELLEY
03-22-2012, 09:58 AM
^fair play shell, it is what it is, but im right about saying go big or go home aint i? half a g aint even gonna make a tiny dent in a habit is it?

whats that like 3 shots? fuck no