16 days codeine detox relativly symptom free.

[DCBA]

Here i present a well know detox, the codeine detox, that in the US they dont give it much credit but in some european countries and asian ones is an hell of a drug for abusing and keep wd at bay..

So lets say you got a tolerance of smoking/snorting just 2 bags of around 30 to 40% heroin, then you would have a tolerance of around 120mgs of IM morphine cause smoking and snorting are so slow that much of the heroin is converted to morphine before reaching the brain so its way IVing heroin is 3 times more powerful, because heroin is 3 times more powerful, but smoking or snorting gives more than enought time for you body to convert heroin to morphine loosing its 3x incresase in potency..

So what i'm saying here is if you smoke or snort 2 or 3 bags of around 30 to 40% heroin it would be equivalent to a daily tolerance of 130mg of morphine, but if you IVed that it would be equivalent to aout 240 to 300mgs of daily morphine.. get it.. sorry if i got lost..


So this leaves where i wanted, a tolerance of around 130 morphine or even more like around 200mgs (if you a take more separated doses of codeine instead of all at the same time..) With that kinda tolerance you can easy detox using codeine almost symptoms free except drug craving. http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9712/codeinedetox16daysallmo.png And if you start at first fews days by adding around 300mgs to 400 mgs of tramadol to this regimem of codeine you can even increase the morphine equivalence to around 400 to 500 mg of daily IM morphine..
Thats about smoking/snorting 1gr daily around 40/50% heroin, or IVing 0.5mg daily (of the same shit 40/50%)...
So most junkies can lower their tolerance to that point if they want that.. most even dont have such a tolerance cause drugs are expensive.. Altought it will feel a lot different, the symptons will be allmost gone and one is able to go to work, play with your kids and such.. tust me.

And if you still got drug cravings you could add a benzo to that, but that becomes a little more dangerous territories.

I'll add the tramadol chart on top of that so you can see what morphine equivalence you can get from mixing codeine, tramadol.

In germany they used to use codeine only instead of methadone, and it worked pretty well so it seems.. But for detox it is wonderful, specially with tramadol and kratom. Like i said i'll will add more graphics so you get an idea of how the mixing can be quite potency in terms of morphine wd equivalence.

[DCBA]

Adding that to the fact that you can take about 400mg every 2 to 4 hours of codeine (about 2400mgs to 4800mgs per day instead of the 3 times daily..) who can get extraordinary amounts of opiates inside.
You can get up to 480mgs of morphine and up to 48mg of hydromorphone inside you because theese are byproducts of codeine. Say that you took 400mg each 2 hours per day as a start of a taper..that you'd mean 4800mgs of codeine that can be about 10% converted cause of the 2 hours in between doses, that 2 hours is almost sufficient for your body to create enough more p42d6 so it can convert again the next dose of codeine.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1548/480gsmorph.png

As you can see one can get a large opiate equivalence. About to 480mgs of morphine daily if you take them 2 hours apart apart, like 400mgs per at least 2 hours. Thats about 4800mgs of codeine corresponding to 480mgs of IM morphine daily [b]AND 48mgs of IM hydromorphone taken daily and together.


But if you are a less radical and only prefer to use it every 4 hours you can except this:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2069/240mgsmorph.png


But you get the picture, even if you dont feel codeine is it capable of supressing opiate WD symtpons in suffiecient doses, its like methadone in a way, you dont fell methadone ftera while too..




PS. In other day i will add other proven methados that really help.

[roxi*stardust]

Really good info! In the past I have successfully used a combination of Codeine and Tramadol to remain fairly symptom free of withdrawal from a 150-240mg Oxycodone habit. Granted you won't get high but this will keep you well for sure! This is getting stickied. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

[dharma bum]

Wow, thanks guy. This is really good to know. I appreciate this info.

[oxy kid]

Great post! Thanks for that!

[DCBA]

Thanks, i'll try to improve it for better understanding, and adding a LINE that equals to "Total Morphine Equivalence", that would make it better to understand.

Also, i plan on putting mgs the numbers in the graphics to be better readen too.

And also, i plan on adding tramadol, m1 to another chart..

Tomorrow i plan on doing that. And improving my much on these.




PS. When we can't sleep from benzos we have to do something..

[Ickyuck]

*looks for codeine's ceiling effect*

How does tramadol increase the body's ability to metabolize codeine??

[hydro chris]

good explanation.. i used codeine many times to low my tolerence which i also think workes the best for my.

[DCBA]

*looks for codeine's ceiling effect*

Codeine ceiling effect is around 400mg in most people but acording to acnedotal reports it can be much more than that..
But the codeine ceiling effect only exists for little time, say for 2 to 4 hours or so... After 2 to 4 hours of taking the codeine the ceiling effect "is gone", so you add more codeine to your body and the body will metabolize it to morphine and hydromorphone in about the same amounts of around the first dose. All you need to do is wait 2 to 4 hours depending on individual people responses..

How does tramadol increase the body's ability to metabolize codeine??

It doesnt... Just like any drug of the same class it adds effects to it.. Tramadol adds effects to codeine, it doenst inrease the body's ability to metabolize codeine.


I'm working on a graph that will be much more easier to understand, and then i plan on using it for everyother drug that exists in this forum, and needs tapering, with time...

[DCBA]

Update like i said:


This time i calculated everything! Including the daily acumulation / half-life of the active codeine metabolites morphine and hydromorphone. And i did the same for the tramadol acumulation / half-life of the parent compound but also of the active M1 metabolite.

To bad the graph is not so explicit with numbers but here it goes, but its real if the half-lifes suits you they are as real as can get..

Notice the last line that says MORPHINE EQUIVALENCE (TOTAL) in Miligrams, thats the equivalence to morphine of all the opiates in the serum at the time. Thats calculated too!

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6051/codeineandtramadolandmo.png
So as you can see from taking 2400mgs codeine daily (from taking 400mgs of codeine each 4 hours) of oral codeine and another 400mgs of oral tramadol (once daily) you can get the equivalance to allmost 400mgs of morphine in terms mu activity, more precisely 389.40 mgs of morphine in terms of mu activity.

If you like the numbers to confirm/read it better..
Up till day 25...
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9698/metabolism1.jpg
From day 21....
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1364/metabolism2.jpg


P.S. And dont fortget that in this case you took 400mgs codeine every 4 hours, and that instead of that, you could take 400mgs each 2 hours increasing the total daily morphine to 4800mgs.. You could also add more tramadol than the used 400mgs (at least more times daily..), and with that you can reach or overcome the mu potency of aground 1gr of morphine per day...

[DCBA]

So accordng to the numbers you can detox from a mix of tramadol, codeine.

And if you add other medications like enzyme delayers/boosters, even other class of drugs will help what this cannot do: that is eliminating your craving..

[pinn3d]

Thats cool..... too bad i can't get fucking codeine..... I can get trams no problem... and I've managed now to cut my pod dose in half! I now take only one dose of pods in the morning, roughly 15-20 grams worth, and then just take 100mg of tramadol every 3 hours or so, coming to about 300-400 mg of tramadol per day..... this has helped me save money on pods, and the spacing of the trams seems to be more effective than taking abunch at once, at least for me..... I think eventually, if I really wanted to, I could switch entirely to trams......

[DCBA]

Someone asked for a copy of this spreadsheet, i dont know who, so tomorrow i´ll copy it to a google account and put it on google docs.
It calculates everything thats presented automatically, all you have to do is to fill the dose of the day.

[Paregoric Kid]

what do you mean so slow? I've read that vaporized heroin crosses into the brain and takes effect faster than if it was administered IV.
tramadol and codeine together are great for wd. good info

[DCBA]

what do you mean so slow? I've read that vaporized heroin crosses into the brain and takes effect faster than if it was administered IV.
tramadol and codeine together are great for wd. good info
Yeah, but it takes time to smoke the heroin and in that time more heroin is going to be converted into morphine, its a matter of a few minutes and that will decrease the heroin/morphine ratio leading to a more morphine high than an heroin high (the few minutes that a heroin high has).
I think that decreases the heroin efficacy by reducing it from the 3x morphine that rapid IV has. Its just my logic speaking, so i can be wrong.

[Woody Bear]

I read on the heroin helper website, that IV heroin is 3x the potency of morphine, but smoked heroin is only 2x the potency of morphine. And I read somewhere else that diamorphine tablets (oral heroin) is 1.2x the potency of morphine.

[Opiyum]

I went ahead and made a copy of this thread and put it in the Healing & Remedy forum.
It's so nice I posted it twice.:D

[Synack]

DCBA: I was the one that asked for the spreadsheet... I'll check the site for the link tomorrow :)

Thanks.

[Chipper]

I went ahead and made a copy of this thread and put it in the Healing & Remedy forum.
It's so nice I posted it twice.:D

I agree. Well done DCBA. Full marks (and some rep.) just for presentation, alone.

[Papa Verine]

Thanks for posting this DCBA, it's very cool. I would be a perfect candidate for a codeine detox. My regular maintenance dose, in my best estimate, is about 60-80mg of morphine a day, but I can't know for sure drinking poppy tea. I use heroin about once a week, and by knowing what my tolerance is to the heroin I can make an educated guess. It takes me 3 bags (300mg) of average quality heroin to get high and enjoy myself for several hours. I don't "nod out" at this amount, it's just very comfortable. Equivalent to a day of heavy tea drinking, not my regular maintenance dose of "Not sick".

I wish I could get some codeine for this. It's fucking rediculous that we can't purchase codeine over the counter in this country! In many ways I've always been very patriotic, and proud to be an American, but as time goes on it's less and less. We are SO FAR from what our founding fathers had envisioned for us. They'd be shocked and outraged if they were told that a man cannot make the choice to purchase some codeine over the counter from they're friendly, CUSTOMER SERVIVE ORIENTED local pharmacist!

I think a codeine detox would be my best shot at kicking my habit. I've been trying and I always cave in because the withdrawals are always only good for one thing... that's making sure I go get my hands on some tea... and it's a viscious circle.

Hey, are there still reputable on-line pharmacists I can purchase codeine from? This is moronic...

[DCBA]

the document is in google docs and i cant export it without loosing content. sorry i'll later later again.