Salvia suicide

[katomic]

Although sad it is lose someone I have my doughts that the lad killed himself because he smoked salvia, it has been around for years and smoked by hundreds of thousands of people around the world with no apparent problem, then one lad kills himself after smoking it and the gov quickly see there chance and ban’s it. Much like kava in Europe, 0.08% had liver problems over 10 years and they ban it.
Any excuse it seems, and once the US ban it they will push other countries to do the same.
And this is called freedom?

[psilocybin]

I agree with you completly.

[skeletontea]

--I for one am proud to live in a country that bases it's drug laws on fallacies of logic rather than facts. By not researching such claims, we save millions of dollars, and pass the savings on to the people. -- Sorry, I think I just channeled the spirit of Ronald Reagan. Don't worry, it's gone back to Hell, and won't bother us again.

Why must our laws be based on the panic of the uninformed rather than the insight of the learned? It's a fucking kakistocracy! Hey lady! Perhaps your kid was just clinically depressed, and wasn't lured into suicide by voodoo music and soul-sucking narcotics! Just maybe, huh? (Sorry, I'm ranting a bit, but this really upsets me.)

Well, at least I have those two plants (or assuming it gets scheduled around here anytime soon, I never had those plants to begin with).

[chemboy7]

--I for one am proud to live in a country that bases it's drug laws on fallacies of logic rather than facts. By not researching such claims, we save millions of dollars, and pass the savings on to the people. -- Sorry, I think I just channeled the spirit of Ronald Reagan. Don't worry, it's gone back to Hell, and won't bother us again.

LMAO. Seriously though, it can't come as that big of a suprise... if people are getting high on something the government is going to find a way to criminalize it. Kratom is next, mark my words.

[HistoryofMadness]

Although sad it is lose someone I have my doughts that the lad killed himself because he smoked salvia, it has been around for years and smoked by hundreds of thousands of people around the world with no apparent problem, then one lad kills himself after smoking it and the gov quickly see there chance and ban’s it. Much like kava in Europe, 0.08% had liver problems over 10 years and they ban it.
Any excuse it seems, and once the US ban it they will push other countries to do the same.
And this is called freedom?
No, silly, that's not freedom. Even though I am offended by your suggestion, I will assume you don't know better and be nice. Our government does not always speak for its people. I suppose you would suggest communism? Ok, that was a cheap shot, so now we're even. Besides, its not our fault your country is a pushover for our cash.

Sorry, I really do not have an issue with you, I am really pissed at the way our government has chosen to act and the consequences it has had on our people's image around the world.



Why must our laws be based on the panic of the uninformed rather than the insight of the learned? It's a fucking kakistocracy! Hey lady! Perhaps your kid was just clinically depressed, and wasn't lured into suicide by voodoo music and soul-sucking narcotics! Just maybe, huh? (Sorry, I'm ranting a bit, but this really upsets me.)


I think our laws are based in large part on winning elections... it sure looks like they're (politicians) doing something when they perform these sleight of hand magic tricks. Its not really what they're doing, but what they're not doing, that pisses me off... But they have to either have a chemical patented or illegal to make money off of it, otherwise they don't get a cut. Especially if its sold on the internet... then they don't even get sales taxes... hahaha fuck you taxman!

Here's an idea: we should establish a harm-reduction program for all these non-scheduled materials, to show we are addressing the 'problem' that the material can be harmful if misused, like a car, a gun, and coffee.

We should also organize vendors and users, like NORML, and spend a little money lobbying the gov't (I do know this works, its part of my profession!) to keep the materials legal. Present the case as a cost-savings plan for the state (gov't). Because people are going to continue to use them, legal or otherwise, and then taxpayers have to pay for more beds in the clink... Anywho... sorry about the rant!

Kratom is next, mark my words.
If we keep sitting around waiting for it to happen and not doing anything, then yes, eventually this will happen. And we wonder..... (warning: this comment may be followed by defeatist attitudes)...

Wow, I'm on a tangent today. Ptea hangover is a bitch.

-H

[bi11i]

My personal feelings are the woman on this anti-salvia crusade is doing her best to channel away from herself her own guilt in her sons's death. I certainly feel for her; I don't know if I'd be able to handle the loss of my own child, but to blame it on Salvia? I think something is definitely missing here and most likely it's an ability to accept her own responsibility for what happened. Nah, blame Salvia instead.... Let the rest of the world pay for her own unfortunate shortcomings... (perhaps had she put the same amount of energy into a 'related cause' before the tragedy?)

[slugbone]

My personal feelings are the woman on this anti-salvia crusade is doing her best to channel away from herself her own guilt in her sons's death. I certainly feel for her; I don't know if I'd be able to handle the loss of my own child, but to blame it on Salvia? I think something is definitely missing here and most likely it's an ability to accept her own responsibility for what happened. Nah, blame Salvia instead.... Let the rest of the world pay for her own unfortunate shortcomings... (perhaps had she put the same amount of energy into a 'related cause' before the tragedy?)

it seems parents that suffer a loss but don't understand (or want to) just lash out at the easy targets. they have to because they are unable to cope with what could be the real reason. just look at the crap that went down with Judas Priest & Ozzy over lyrics that were blamed for some kid committing suicide. until people are willing to examine things like this for the root cause the scapegoats will always be the drugs, the music, the tv they watch, etc...

[katomic]

No, silly, that's not freedom. Even though I am offended by your suggestion, I will assume you don't know better and be nice. Our government does not always speak for its people. I suppose you would suggest communism? Ok, that was a cheap shot, so now we're even. Besides, its not our fault your country is a pushover for our cash.

Sorry, I really do not have an issue with you, I am really pissed at the way our government has chosen to act and the consequences it has had on our people's image around the world.


Why are you yanks so touchy about your country? Did you notice I mentioned EUROPE in my post it was not directed only at the US most govs are the same, ANY excuse to ban a drug.

Besides, its not our fault your country is a pushover for our cash.

What’s all this about? Why did do have to have a dig at the UK? That’s seems sad to me.

Most govs ban drugs they say to protect us the public, but I believe it has more to do with power, look back to the 60s groups of people started not to work and push aside consumerism, govs don’t like this they like us to work earn and spend spend spend it keeps the economy up, countries are nothing but very large businesses.

[HistoryofMadness]

Why are you yanks so touchy about your country? Did you notice I mentioned EUROPE in my post it was not directed only at the US most govs are the same, ANY excuse to ban a drug.



What’s all this about? Why did do have to have a dig at the UK? That’s seems sad to me.

Most govs ban drugs they say to protect us the public, but I believe it has more to do with power, look back to the 60s groups of people started not to work and push aside consumerism, govs don’t like this they like us to work earn and spend spend spend it keeps the economy up, countries are nothing but very large businesses.

I just thought it was interesting that you implied it would be the US's fault that the drug was banned in your country. Furthermore, I was just digging back, as you had a dig at the US first, no? And it appears yanks aren't the only sensitive ones, given your response to my 'dig at the UK.' See, its not so bad.

But I by no means was taking up for our gov; it was partially a joke and partially being a smartass... none of it was meant to be so serious as to start something...

And I agree, its all about money... again, it just sounded like the US was getting too much credit in your comment... after all, kratom, salvia, and others have already been outlawed in other coutries. We are the ones following suit this time.

Ok, and I was very moody the past 2 days, and very high, so that I'll give you.

Truce?

-H

[katomic]

no worries H
some disterbing news form some weird people, that think we need protecting from ourselfs

D.A.R.E. coordinator Dep. George Little is baffled by the product's accessibility.
"There comes a time when somebody ought to say enough is enough," Little said.
He says if people are smoking it and hallucinating, then it needs to be off the market.
"Just because something's legal, doesn't necessarily make it right," Little said.
So far, a handful of states are considering outlawing this drug. Louisiana and Missouri have already done so, and several other countries have named it a controlled substance.


The measure makes Salvia a Schedule I controlled substance, placing it in the same category as heroin. Similar legislation is pending in New York, Illinois, Oklahoma and Alaska. Last year, Salvia and 38 other plants with hallucinogenic properties were banned for human consumption in Louisiana, and Missouri added Salvia and 12 other drugs to its list of controlled substances.

who is running Louisiana and Missouri? it would be interesting to know what the 12 other drugs are


I like the comment "Just because something's legal, doesn't necessarily make it right," sounds to me this guy needs some serious Psychedelic therapy to deepen his thinking!!!

[HistoryofMadness]

(with apologies to the thread author for the earlier diversion)

I think bi11i is right, that grieving parents appear to need something to 'fix' - it is unfortunate that they are looking at the symptom of the problem (the drug use) and not the problem itself (depression and suicide).

The direction of the current salvia conversation only reinforces the stigma that depression is an issue caused by a behavior (drug use) that needs to be handled with punishment.

Just as a side note, all of this "education" to help us know what's bad for us is only driving interest in salvia d up, according to a local headshop where I live. The guy at the counter said that since a local news story, they have been out of stock... and sell out every time they get another shipment in...

And we know when use skyrockets, all kinds of urban legends start going around (fueled by government propaganda) and this momentum will most likely end in a federal law banning salvia.

Depression and suicide are real issues that need to be addressed. Yet another chance to address this stuff going down the drain. And yet another action that will keep pushing this stuff further underground and forward. On to the next novel innebriant, right?

I have attached a (txt file) list of hallucinogenics made illegal by Louisiana and Missouri (and sources)... a must-read for any research / entheogen vendors and customers...

-H

[Papa Suspensum]

I have attached a (txt file) list of hallucinogenics made illegal by Louisiana and Missouri (and sources)... a must-read for any research / entheogen vendors and customers...

-H

Thanks LA and MO! I have been looking around for a good list of hallucinogens to add to my To-Do list. Lets see how each one tastes.:rolleyes:

The problem is that good people end up being persecuted by gov so much that they don't want anything to do with it; then the political parade keeps on rolling without any competition: their own people.

I hope once my partying days are over, my wise ass gets motivated to endeavor into legislative decisions to help keep the free free. It's not looking good for freedom right now, but it is still in our hands.

[katomic]

That’s unbelievable two examples are Vinca rosea, Olmedioperebea sclerophylla

Vinca rosea
Few plants have generated as much recent interest among the scientific and medical communities as the Madagascar periwinkle, C. roseus (also known by its older name Vinca rosea). The interest began in the mid-1950s, when researchers, hearing of a "periwinkle tea" that was drunk in Jamaica, began to study the plant for its reported antidiabetic properties. They found much more than they had hoped for; the plant, they found, contains two anticancer alkaloids- vincristine and vinblastine- that inhibit the growth of tumors. Vincristine has proved most effective in treating childhood leukemia; vinblastine in treating testicular cancer and Hodgkin's disease (cancer of the lymphatic system). Like many drugs used in chemotherapy, both alkaloids produce such side-effects as nausea and hair loss.
Along with the lesser periwinkle, rauvolfia, and other members of the dogbane family, the Madagascar periwinkle is endowed with other medicinal assets, too. Madagascar periwinkle contains over 70 different indole alkaloids, including vinblastine, vincristine, alstonine, ajmalicine, leurocristine, and reserpine. Some of these decrease blood sugar levels; others reduce blood pressure

Olmedioperebea sclerophylla
a jungle tree, the fruits of which reputedly were the source of an intoxicating snuff employed formerly by Indians of the Pariana region of the central part of the Amazon Valley. It is now known only by its Portuguese name rape dos indios, "Indian snuff". No chemical study of this plant nor of the snuff have been published, and direct observations of the preparation and use of the snuff have been impossible to date.

So we have a anti cancer drug and a plant that we no almost nothing about, only that’s its used as a snuff
Also how do they expect to enforce these laws? Send the cops on a botanical course?

The parents are obviously hurt and not wanting the same thing to happen to anyone else, they think they are doing the right thing but trying to criminalize SD, but perhaps a different approach like an awareness charity for teen mental issues would be more fruitful also these seem to be more connected with the incident of there son.
It could educate parents of the signs of mental problems, how to approach there child and what to do about it and would bring much more satisfaction to them than there current quest.

[Kallie]

That’s unbelievable two examples are Vinca rosea, Olmedioperebea sclerophylla

Vinca rosea
Few plants have generated as much recent interest among the scientific and medical communities as the Madagascar periwinkle, C. roseus (also known by its older name Vinca rosea). The interest began in the mid-1950s, when researchers, hearing of a "periwinkle tea" that was drunk in Jamaica, began to study the plant for its reported antidiabetic properties. They found much more than they had hoped for; the plant, they found, contains two anticancer alkaloids- vincristine and vinblastine- that inhibit the growth of tumors. Vincristine has proved most effective in treating childhood leukemia; vinblastine in treating testicular cancer and Hodgkin's disease (cancer of the lymphatic system). Like many drugs used in chemotherapy, both alkaloids produce such side-effects as nausea and hair loss.
Along with the lesser periwinkle, rauvolfia, and other members of the dogbane family, the Madagascar periwinkle is endowed with other medicinal assets, too. Madagascar periwinkle contains over 70 different indole alkaloids, including vinblastine, vincristine, alstonine, ajmalicine, leurocristine, and reserpine. Some of these decrease blood sugar levels; others reduce blood pressure

Olmedioperebea sclerophylla
a jungle tree, the fruits of which reputedly were the source of an intoxicating snuff employed formerly by Indians of the Pariana region of the central part of the Amazon Valley. It is now known only by its Portuguese name rape dos indios, "Indian snuff". No chemical study of this plant nor of the snuff have been published, and direct observations of the preparation and use of the snuff have been impossible to date.

So we have a anti cancer drug and a plant that we no almost nothing about, only that’s its used as a snuff
Also how do they expect to enforce these laws? Send the cops on a botanical course?

The parents are obviously hurt and not wanting the same thing to happen to anyone else, they think they are doing the right thing but trying to criminalize SD, but perhaps a different approach like an awareness charity for teen mental issues would be more fruitful also these seem to be more connected with the incident of there son.
It could educate parents of the signs of mental problems, how to approach there child and what to do about it and would bring much more satisfaction to them than there current quest.

Great idea, Kat. Whole thread's very interesting.

[insanesteveo]

I have attached a (txt file) list of hallucinogenics made illegal by Louisiana and Missouri (and sources)... a must-read for any research / entheogen vendors and customers...

-H

i see calea, the dream herb, on that list. i have some of that right now. i smoked a ton of it and nothing. and thats pretty much the consensus ive read on erowid.

looks like alot of the rest make ayahuasca or have atropine, and those others like atropine.

[Phluck]

It's a fucking kakistocracy!


You win a zillion points for using that word in a sentence. It's possible my favorite word, but I've never actually heard it used. Kudos to you.

[psilocybin]

I new this would happen sooner or later.Next they are just going to add every substance in tihkal and pihkal as schedule one.Thank good shulgun is putting out a new one:D

I love that man

[handsome rob]

Salvia really never did much for me but for some it is a powerful substance. As for salvia causing suicide? It wouldn't have happened because of salvia, one would already be to that point. The gov. is just looking for an excuse and they found one.

[Special-K]

Avinza (MS Contin, Oramorph SR, Kadian) - Leave it to the U.S. to take something good and FUCK IT UP!

[Adormidera]

Although sad it is lose someone I have my doughts that the lad killed himself because he smoked salvia, it has been around for years and smoked by hundreds of thousands of people around the world with no apparent problem, then one lad kills himself after smoking it and the gov quickly see there chance and ban’s it. Much like kava in Europe, 0.08% had liver problems over 10 years and they ban it.
Any excuse it seems, and once the US ban it they will push other countries to do the same.
And this is called freedom?

What I want to know is: Where's all the uproar and fury when a kid commits suicide right after, for instance, going to church? I'm sure it has happened! Just because one thing happened before another doesn't prove a cause-and-effect relationship exists.

I'd like to see the reaction if a bunch of kids killed themselves after listening to recordings of George W. Bush's speeches (instead of Judas Priest albums or whatever). Would there be such a blamefest then?

Just a thought. . . .

[superman]

it's not uncommon for people to blame a tragic event on a drug, but what about the opposite? why aren't people touting heroin for it's remarkable ability to lift the spirits of some of the most depressed people.

or how about crack? i know one person close to me who wanted to die, even made an attempt(which i foiled, the bitch). she started smoking crack and all of a sudden didn't want to die anymore.....

if only the world knew how green the grass is over here ;)