Surprising Bupe Results

[tch2296]

So I was recently discharged from a detox facility after my parents found all my rigs. I had been injecting high-quality east coast heroin for about a month, basically 4-day benders with 2 or 3 days in between each run. I was in detox for 5 days, and they gave me a tapering Suboxone dose every day (starting 8 mg day 1, 6 mg day 2, and so on...).

I was sent home with 5 x 2 mg Suboxones. I also got a bunch of phenobarbital (I took all 180 mg and it didn't do shit except make me a walking zombie for 2 days). I waited 24 hours after my last 2 mg dose of Suboxone and tried injecting 4 mg of the bupe. It gave me a bad headache, for hours, and I almost vomited. I could feel the bupe working but overall the experience sucked.

Of course, junkie that I am, I decided to repeat the experiment. Today, after waiting 48 hours after my last bunk 4 mg injection, I injected 2 mg. There wasn't really any rush to speak of, but after 5 minutes I started to feel pretty damn good. So I injected another 1 mg. That was about half an hour ago. I feel great now.

First, I am surprised that I didn't get a headache again. I suppose maybe there was still a little bit of heroin in my system the first time I injected it, and maybe there is none left now. But then I should have experienced precipitated w/d in detox, which I did not, even the first day with an 8 mg dose.

Second, I am surprised at the quality of the high. It is very energetic and uplifting, not tiring and noddy. Although I certainly prefer the noddy-dreamy high of drugs like heroin, this is a nice change of pace. In my past experience, however, I could not get ANY kind of opiate high until I waited at least a week after my last dose, and that was when I was on 8 mg/day (I used to be on 24 mg/day). I only waited 48 hours this time and had great results. Maybe it was because I am not maintained on bupe, and just took it 7 days in a row, so plasma concentrations have reached low enough levels that a good dose actually gets me high.

I'm gonna save my last 3 mg for Sunday, and since my blood levels will be lower than they were today, I'm looking forward to a really good experience. On Thursday or Friday I'll probably be checking into a 28-day rehab, where supposedly I will have a spiritual awakening by admitting I am powerless over heroin and begging my higher power to save me :rolleyes:

I'll let you know how that goes, I don't honestly hold out much hope for it, but I will put all my effort into it, since lately my opiate addiction has got me really beaten down.

[alowishus]

It's good to see your parents money worked so well at the detox....;)

I wouldn't think you had any h still in you, how long was it since your last?
Less is more.
That is the best advice w/ bupe.

The headache is from the naloxone more then likely.

Phenobarbital and banging opies. :rolleyes:
You aint long for this world my friend, you want to be a old junkie?

We all must find our own way.

[tch2296]

It's good to see your parents money worked so well at the detox....;)
I wouldn't think you had any h still in you, how long was it since your last?
Less is more.
That is the best advice w/ bupe.
The headache is from the naloxone more then likely.
Phenobarbital and banging opies. :rolleyes:
You aint long for this world my friend, you want to be a old junkie?
We all must find our own way.

I appreciate you looking out for my parents;), but I am paying for the detox myself. VERY hefty cost, but it was either that or the homeless shelter, because my parents said they would allow me back in the house once I'm cleaned up. Because I've doing so much heroin these last few weeks I have almost no money, and no job.

I thought the naloxone did not have any effect because the buprenorphine had a higher binding affinity? Do you know if it is true that the naloxone has a higher affinity for certain specific opiate receptors (the mu I think), I read that in a thread at bluelight (I hate bluelight), and the person claimed that the naloxone prevented the bupe from having any euphoric effects when injected, only a mild opiate buzz.

Obviously I know that you can get high from shooting Suboxone now, but this person claimed that was why shooting Subutex was more euphoric and worthwhile (aside from not having orange sweeteners in your veins).

What do you mean "You ain't long for this world"? Are you making reference to mixing barbiturates with opiates? I know it is a stupid idea in general but phenobarbital is so incredibly weak, it barely did anything, not to mention they gave it to me in detox alongside the Suboxone. Again, thanks for your concern though.

If I had some real barbiturates, like Nembutal or Seconal (dunno if they even exist anymore :(), I def wouldn't mix them with anything, I would treasure them, and enjoy them thoroughly on their own.

And yeah, if I have the finances, and it doesn't take a huge toll on every other part of my life (like it is now), I would like to be an opiate user for the rest of my life. I love the shit, can't get enough of it. :p

[alowishus]

No problem, please tell them I said hi. :p

Fuck mate, why don't you try a state run place, the cost should be a lot less, or have health insurance pay it, if you are under a certain age your parents health insurance should pay it, then no matter if you're cured or not after it runs out you're "cured". Love the way that works.

I would think, at least in the circles I've been in, that it's well documented that the nalx causes headaches, it did me and almost everyone I've talked to.
I got a buzz from my bupe and I only ever took it by mouth (1mg or less for a high anything more would just keep me well), of course I can't get that high now though, it's a fickle bitch.
I can't speak of any certainty about shooting bupe, I have never seen the worth of it, and yes the nalx is "supposed" to keep it from being banged, but we all know that aint working and so did they, but it called plausible deniability.

There has been so many deaths from people taking barbs and other things it's like standard no no stuff, you said yourself you where a zombie, then you said it didn't do anything.... have you ever taken it before other then in detox? It aint an opie high.
My aunt died from take a small dose and having a couple drinks, went to sleep and never woke up.

Now excuse me, but you seem young, and if you want to live to do those opies for the rest of your life....slow down sparky. You've got the rest of your life to fuck up, no sense doing it all in two weeks. :D

[tch2296]

Yeah, unfortunately there aren't too many state-run places around here, and the ones that are are filled up. My grandmother is paying for my 30-day rehab, it only takes cash but it is a really nice place, it practically looks like a hotel, has a pool/exercise room, a large hiking, area etc. I'm sure if I asked my grandmother asked she'd pay for my detox expenses, she has tons of money and really wants to see me get better, she's an amazing lady, and she's always been there for me, even when I fuck up bad.

As far as my mom's insurance, it sucks, doesn't pay for any kind of substance-abuse treatment. Doesn't pay for meds. Basically it only covers basic health care and some emergency expenses. It's a really terrible policy and I'm angry my mom got it because it means she can't afford to pay for suboxone maintenance. Otherwise I wouldn't have had to stop taking bupe 3 months ago, I managed to stay clean for a few months but it was torturous and it never got any easier, one day I was given an opportunity and decided fuck it, I'm sick of being miserable.

Sorry to hear about your aunt. Do you know what kind of barbiturates she took? I'd be really surprised if phenobarbital did that, unless she did some really heavy drinking and took a month's worth of medication. I did feel like a zombie after taking the pheno (did get a really nice sleep though), but it was only grogginess; not like i was falling asleep or stumbling around, just kind of residual effects from the night before. It had been 18-24 hours after taking it that I injected the bupe, and I didn't feel sedated enough that I thought it was dangerous, but I guess it's unsafe to make those kind of judgements.

Then again, it's unsafe to take high amounts of pheno, it's unsafe to inject Suboxone, shit it's unsafe to be an opiate addict in most cases. I have done a lot of stupid shit, and I've been around the block a few times, and I wouldn't count this among my greatest risk-taking behavior. If I had been even as sedated as 1 mg of xanax would have got me, I wouldn't have done it, I am aware of how dangerous barbs can be, even phenobarbital, the darvocet of barbiturates.

I was interested by something you said though: You said that less than 1 mg gets you high, but more just kind of satisfies you, can you explain why? I have heard this before somewhere, something about the partial-agonist nature of buprenorphine, but I always thought it was a myth or misunderstanding.

What would you say the ideal recreational bupe would be?

[Motown]

Yeah, unfortunately there aren't too many state-run places around here, and the ones that are are filled up. My grandmother is paying for my 30-day rehab, it only takes cash but it is a really nice place, it practically looks like a hotel, has a pool/exercise room, a large hiking, area etc. I'm sure if I asked my grandmother asked she'd pay for my detox expenses, she has tons of money and really wants to see me get better, she's an amazing lady, and she's always been there for me, even when I fuck up bad.

As far as my mom's insurance, it sucks, doesn't pay for any kind of substance-abuse treatment. Doesn't pay for meds. Basically it only covers basic health care and some emergency expenses. It's a really terrible policy and I'm angry my mom got it because it means she can't afford to pay for suboxone maintenance. Otherwise I wouldn't have had to stop taking bupe 3 months ago, I managed to stay clean for a few months but it was torturous and it never got any easier, one day I was given an opportunity and decided fuck it, I'm sick of being miserable.

Sorry to hear about your aunt. Do you know what kind of barbiturates she took? I'd be really surprised if phenobarbital did that, unless she did some really heavy drinking and took a month's worth of medication. I did feel like a zombie after taking the pheno (did get a really nice sleep though), but it was only grogginess; not like i was falling asleep or stumbling around, just kind of residual effects from the night before. It had been 18-24 hours after taking it that I injected the bupe, and I didn't feel sedated enough that I thought it was dangerous, but I guess it's unsafe to make those kind of judgements.

Then again, it's unsafe to take high amounts of pheno, it's unsafe to inject Suboxone, shit it's unsafe to be an opiate addict in most cases. I have done a lot of stupid shit, and I've been around the block a few times, and I wouldn't count this among my greatest risk-taking behavior. If I had been even as sedated as 1 mg of xanax would have got me, I wouldn't have done it, I am aware of how dangerous barbs can be, even phenobarbital, the darvocet of barbiturates.

I was interested by something you said though: You said that less than 1 mg gets you high, but more just kind of satisfies you, can you explain why? I have heard this before somewhere, something about the partial-agonist nature of buprenorphine, but I always thought it was a myth or misunderstanding.

What would you say the ideal recreational bupe would be?
Mad at your mom? Pay for your own suboxone then. Get your own insurance.....

edit: I'm still trying to figure the whole Bupe thing out - no insight on that for you

[tch2296]

I'm not angry AT my mom for getting it, what I meant is that i'm angry that my mom got it, rather than a regular policy, it's not her fault. Our last policy covered everything, including all the bupe. Read the post a bit more carefully dude, too bad you have nothing at all to contribute concerning the suboxone, i really wish someone did...

Seems to be like a lot of people are standing up for my parents in this thread...i guess that's what you get for posting a thread about shooting suboxone

[duck]

that good feeling will be gone shortly..I'll bet ya the farm

[tch2296]

that good feeling will be gone shortly..I'll bet ya the farm

Yep, it went away within a few hours, a lot sooner than I would have expected, considering it's bupe. Actually I feel pretty shitty now.

Wtf is up with that anyways? Normally when i take suboxone sublingually, the feeling lasts for 8+ hours at least.

[libertine]

Yeah, its minimally surprising at first, and then you find out you're just putting more holes in your arm for nothing... fuckin' bupe

[jimmyfingers]

tch i thought you were some kind of big baller and bad ass drug dealer. you stated in a previous thread (happeist opio moment) that you were a bad ass drug dealer rolling around with over an ounce of coke and making 700 a night. Now you are complaining that your mommys insurance is no good. get a fucking job and pay for your own suboxone treatment instead of complaining that your mad because your mommy got the wrong insurance plan. act like a man.

as for the sub, im on about 1mg a day now, slowly tapering off this shit. ive tapered off it before after taking it for a year and had no w/ds. dont waste your veins shooting this shit. best advice is to taper down and get off asap

[alowishus]

There.
You got a god talking at.

Now finish your peas and go to bed. :rolleyes:

[JonnyMohawk]

tch i thought you were some kind of big baller and bad ass drug dealer. you stated in a previous thread (happeist opio moment) that you were a bad ass drug dealer rolling around with over an ounce of coke and making 700 a night. Now you are complaining that your mommys insurance is no good. get a fucking job and pay for your own suboxone treatment instead of complaining that your mad because your mommy got the wrong insurance plan.


I don't fucking get it man... he wasn't an asshole to you, no need to be a prick when alowishus already said what was needed.

You haven't been around enough to start being rude when it isn't called for.

[roxi*stardust]

Hey nothing wrong with what jimmyfingers said! Just because he is newer here doesn't mean he can't speak his mind. If you air your laundry for everyone to see than everyone who sees it has the right to comment on it good or bad. I don't think he was being a dick only asking a legit question!

[ryan]

tch i thought you were some kind of big baller and bad ass drug dealer. you stated in a previous thread (happeist opio moment) that you were a bad ass drug dealer rolling around with over an ounce of coke and making 700 a night. Now you are complaining that your mommys insurance is no good. get a fucking job and pay for your own suboxone treatment instead of complaining that your mad because your mommy got the wrong insurance plan. act like a man.

If you're going to go to a rehab TCH, you'd better get used to hearing things like this.
Trust me, there are going to be tons of crochety old people there who WISH they actually had a relationship with their mom / dad, cept they burned that bridge years ago and now won't even aknowledge their birth.

That's the worst part about being a younger person in rehab IMHO.
All the old people say "you'd better stop now before you turn into me!!" it's so annoying.

Also if you wear nice clothes and have family visits you can bet your ass people will be jealous of you and try to take advantage.
Do not loan anyone any money, that's for damn sure.

[PiLL CLiNToN]

Hey nothing wrong with what jimmyfingers said! Just because he is newer here doesn't mean he can't speak his mind. If you air your laundry for everyone to see than everyone who sees it has the right to comment on it good or bad.

Co-Signage totally...Couldnt have said that betta!

[roxi*stardust]

If you're going to go to a rehab TCH, you'd better get used to hearing things like this.
Trust me, there are going to be tons of crochety old people there who WISH they actually had a relationship with their mom / dad, cept they burned that bridge years ago and now won't even aknowledge their birth.
That's the worst part about being a younger person in rehab IMHO.
All the old people say "you'd better stop now before you turn into me!!" it's so annoying.
Also if you wear nice clothes and have family visits you can bet your ass people will be jealous of you and try to take advantage.
Do not loan anyone any money, that's for damn sure.

What's wrong with old heads telling you "stop now or you will end up like me"? They are actually giving you good advice, don't think that shit won't happen to you. Evetually your family will get sick of helping and they will try the tough love way. There are some older opiophiles here that give great advice because they have been through much worse that many of us have yet. Don't think because you cop in the hood and been to rehab that you know it all about the road heroin addiction can lead you down. Shit I don't use heroin so I can't claim to know what it's like but I know this for a fact, I wish I would have listen to some of those old heads that told me to stop now while I could.

[tch2296]

LOL, I'm really kind of overwhelmed here by the variety of comments, almost NONE of which have anything to do with my original question.
In the summer of 2007 I was making $700 a night on the weekends selling coke and rolls, I didn't need any help from my parents, and I wasn't really addicted to drugs yet. It was the best time of my life, so far.Once I became addicted to opiates, more and more of that money started going towards opiates and cocaine until by the summer of 2008 I was not making enough to support my own habits and came back to the east coast to recover and live with my parents.
During the period from June 2008-Sep 08 my mom still had Tufts, from when we lived in Boston (I live in Maine), but after a while she was forced to get cheaper insurance because she works at an inn instead of at a hospital and they don't offer much in the way of benefits. I don't know how much clearer I can make this, BUT I'M NOT ANGRY AT MY MOM FOR GETTING THIS INSURANCE. I am disappointed the insurance we ended up with didn't cover suboxone, because when I had to stop in September, it was only a matter of time before I jumped back on the opiate train, which I did a month ago.
I don't really understand why people feel like unloading on me, but cut the shit, I'm not bitching about my situation, stop misreading my posts and then posting dumbass comments, especially you jimmiyfingers, stop being a little cunt. I could care less what you think about my personal life. You know nothing about it. I am not angry at my mom, I am glad they are supporting me and helping me recover at the moment, and I feel lucky in that sense.
I don't care how many old-timers wanna wag their cane at me, the fact is these flamers aren't even interpreting what I am writing correctly, so FUCK OFF
Anyways, back on the fuckin ' topic, although it is probably hopeless at this point, I seem to have woken up in mild withdrawal, which is weird because usually bupe holds me over for a good 24 hours before I feel anything at all. Does it only last a little while when you shoot it or something.
If you're going to go to a rehab TCH, you'd better get used to hearing things like this.
Trust me, there are going to be tons of crochety old people there who WISH they actually had a relationship with their mom / dad, cept they burned that bridge years ago and now won't even aknowledge their birth.
That's the worst part about being a younger person in rehab IMHO.
All the old people say "you'd better stop now before you turn into me!!" it's so annoying.
Also if you wear nice clothes and have family visits you can bet your ass people will be jealous of you and try to take advantage.
Do not loan anyone any money, that's for damn sure.
Ha, yeah, I guess I should get used to it. The place I am going to, luckily, is mostly young people so hopefully I won't get jimmyfingered there.
Oh ya, jimmyfingers, I have spent a year on suboxone and I tapered all the way off it before, don't need your cranky-ass's advice on what to waste my veins on. Sometimes I just need to use a fuckin' needle, and it actually worked pretty well yesterday.

[dharma bum]

Seems to be like a lot of people are standing up for my parents in this thread....

Hey dude, I love them, they love me, that's all you need to know right now.

[ryan]

What's wrong with old heads telling you "stop now or you will end up like me"? They are actually giving you good advice, don't think that shit won't happen to you. Evetually your family will get sick of helping and they will try the tough love way. There are some older opiophiles here that give great advice because they have been through much worse that many of us have yet. Don't think because you cop in the hood and been to rehab that you know it all about the road heroin addiction can lead you down. Shit I don't use heroin so I can't claim to know what it's like but I know this for a fact, I wish I would have listen to some of those old heads that told me to stop now while I could.

I think I have been down some pretty tough roads, considering I was arrested by the DEA \ US Marshalls in 2005...and back then, my parents totally disowned me, so I do know what tough love is like.

However, I would never say that to someone younger than me (i'm only 25 but anyways..)

"Stop now while you're young" isn't really good advice at all..it's kind of stating the obvious...and when you hear it from almost EVERY single older person in the entire joint, it gets tiresome.

I think some good advice would be to explain HOW to stop or where to turn to when you need help instead of just unloading on someone because you're older and are jealous \ want to take advantage of them.

On a good note, I have to say that I did meet some really cool and understanding older people in the one rehab I was at. They always told really good stories and especially the ones that actually built up clean time over the years told how they did it, and then what went wrong \ why they relapsed \ etc.

But I have to say a majority of them were just miserable and jealous fucks.

[chopstix]

Anyways, back on the fuckin ' topic, although it is probably hopeless at this point, I seem to have woken up in mild withdrawal, which is weird because usually bupe holds me over for a good 24 hours before I feel anything at all. Does it only last a little while when you shoot it or something.

Gotta pay to play, It's never held me quite as long IV and if you're getting off, you can expect a rebound sickness, especially this close to an H/OC run..

[tch2296]

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna be pretty sick, I have 3 mg left, which I will probably inject either tonight or tomorrow.

Right now I feel fucking great, I took a gram of pregabalin, I am high as fuck. I had no idea this stuff could be so powerful. I think it will hold me a couple days after the bupe runs out, it completey removed my w/d's.

[roxi*stardust]

I think I have been down some pretty tough roads, considering I was arrested by the DEA \ US Marshalls in 2005...and back then, my parents totally disowned me, so I do know what tough love is like.
However, I would never say that to someone younger than me (i'm only 25 but anyways..)
"Stop now while you're young" isn't really good advice at all..it's kind of stating the obvious...and when you hear it from almost EVERY single older person in the entire joint, it gets tiresome.
I think some good advice would be to explain HOW to stop or where to turn to when you need help instead of just unloading on someone because you're older and are jealous \ want to take advantage of them.
On a good note, I have to say that I did meet some really cool and understanding older people in the one rehab I was at. They always told really good stories and especially the ones that actually built up clean time over the years told how they did it, and then what went wrong \ why they relapsed \ etc.
But I have to say a majority of them were just miserable and jealous fucks.

Well I don't know what you have experienced in regards of being taken advantage of. As far as advice on how to stop, if that was so easy do you think we would all be here. Who cares who has it the toughest, that doesn't impress me or probably most others here. But if you would open your ears and listen maybe you could find some good advice from the old heads rather than thinking that you are tried and true street tuff. I like you and enjoy your posts, most are really good. But I think you are taking my posts a bit to much to heart. It was meant to say some of them old heads may have some excellent advice. Like if duckfeet or nick was in rehab with you.

[ryan]

But I think you are taking my posts a bit to much to heart. It was meant to say some of them old heads may have some excellent advice. Like if duckfeet or nick was in rehab with you.

LOL I would love to be in rehab with duckfeet \ nick, that would be some good times.
They aren't miserable bastards like most of the older people I've met in NA \ rehab.

And if I came off as being "Street tough" I apologize, I'm just stating my experiences and where I've been.
I always thought I was a sensitive guy ^_~.

[hydro chris]

imo..IVing subs doesnt last as long.
that all i got to say.. sorry.

[tch2296]

Yeah, it seemed like it only lasted like 12 hours as opposed to the usual 24-30 when I take it sublingually.

I woke up with minor w/d symptoms (yawning, sneezing, bad mood), but took a shitload of Lyrica and was high all day.

Tomorrow morning I'm gonna slam the other 3 mg, should be really nice.

[roxi*stardust]

LOL I would love to be in rehab with duckfeet \ nick, that would be some good times.
They aren't miserable bastards like most of the older people I've met in NA \ rehab.
And if I came off as being "Street tough" I apologize, I'm just stating my experiences and where I've been.
I always thought I was a sensitive guy ^_~.

No need to apologize! I wasn't talking about you in particular, just generalizing! Sorry you had experiences with some ignorant fucks in rehab. I was just trying to say some old heads can be great and provide a welath of knowledge, they aren't all miserable assholes.

[libertine]

Lyrica is the bomb for staving off withdrawal

but yeah, IV'd bupe is muchh shorter in duration but not in intensity of course, trade off
but shooot it up if you're still feelin' fine

[tch2296]

I spent 5 days in detox. There was this 62-year old Oxy addict in there, he'd been a junkie for like 40 years. 4 fuckin' decades of opiate addiction. It was awesome to talk to him.

He used to drink bottles of paregoric, a tincture of opium they don't make any more. He talked to me about his experiences with Quaalude, which was really cool, "black beauties" speed, all that shit, it was really cool to listen to him because he had so much experience.

But more importantly, he told me that the most important thing for me to do was stop using drugs. He really stressed that, he kept telling me that I have a great life ahead of me if i can stop with the opiates. He was very sincere and it made an impression on me, I realized I didn't wanna be 62 years old and still doing Oxys, I didn't wanna be like him. I really do want to clean up my act. He really made an impression on me, I'm glad he was there.

About the bupe, yeah it definitely didn't last long injected, I'm slamming the rest tomorrow, It will have been 48 hours since my last shot so I'm probably gonna get pretty fuckin' high.

And the Lyrica was perfect today, didn't feel any withdrawals once it kicked in, and I got high as hell, crazy body buzz like GHB or something...

[roxi*stardust]

tch, have you consider MMT until you can get back on your feet and stable. When you get to that point then you can start a slow detox? Is that an option? Sounds like you have the same problem alot do with Bupe, it works great for physical symptoms but not so much for the mental cravings. It is also MUCH less expensive than Bupe.

[Narkotikon]

First of all, I didn't read all of this. I read your first post, and then sort of skimmed. I will say the part Roxi said about your family getting fed up WILL happen. It just does. I also think it depends on the family and it's attitude. For instance, my mother is VERY anti-everything. Cigs, pot, heroin: no distinction in her mind. Smoking weed is the same as IV drug use in her mind. Anyway, I was sent to a lot of rehabs when I was younger, some before I probably should have been, and each time I came home to the expectation of being cured. And of course when I used again, it was always "well, you went to the damned rehab, I thought they were supposed to cure you." It's so comical it's not even funny. The woman has been to the damned family classes, and still knows nothing more than before she had gone. She's just not willing to learn or change her mind / opinion / views.

That being said, the sort of unspoken rule now is that if I get caught using, I'm out. That did briefly happen in June 2007. I was sent to detox, then told I couldn't come home unless I went to rehab. And, let me tell you, the older I get, the less nice rehabs I get sent to. The last one was the Salvation Army Rehab Center. NOT NICE! So, yeah, that's mainly why I do seeds: they're legal, I don't have to worry about the street thing, I don't have to worry about having things shipped in the mail, etc. Granted, I'm pretty sure my mother knows that I still use. I mean, she wants an itemized deduction of all the money I spend. It's very fucking annoying, but I understand why she does it. So, I should say, that rule is basically this: it's not so much me using that will get me kicked out, it's being sick and a total bitch. If I'm in major w/d and a bitch, it's not going to be fun. And I couldn't survive on the street, so I try my best to not put myself in that position. I mean, I certainly don't do seeds because I prefer them over other things, I do them because they suit my situation better.

The only saving grace is that my family knows I wouldn't survive on the streets, so I think that makes the threat of me being kicked out kind of hollow. Sure, they might do it again for a few days sometime (although I certainly hope not, because I just can't go through that whole ordeal again...not fun), but if I were to call from some phone booth downtown and say I'm scared and afraid of being shot / stabbed / mugged / raped, I'm pretty sure they'd take me back. So, it is kind of hollow. It's just a fucked up situation all around.

But, enough of my life story. Yes, your family will get fed up. Unless they use themselves and are totally hippy progressive and just don't think drug use is bad. Then they might not. But, honestly, I've never been around people like that, so I can't say that that would be common / normal.

Also, I wouldn't shoot the rest of that bupe. I'd take it sublingually, especially if you only have a very small amount left. Less is definitely more with bupe, although I will say I do think some need more than 1-2mg a day. But, yeah, the headache was probably from the Naloxone in it, or from taking too much bupe.

Is it possible just to get on Suboxone Maintenance? I mean, it seems like you're not ready or not wanting to quit. Would your family consider helping you with that? That sounds like the better choice, especially if you're already relapsing the first day home.

And yes, phenobarbital is a long-acting barbiturate. It can still be abused, but won't be as fun as a shorter acting barb, like Seconal, Tuinal, Nembutal; or an intermediate-acting barb like butalbital. I've never done the short-acting ones, but I liked butalbital better then phenobarbital, although I did like it too. It didn't make me feel like a zombie. It basically just calmed me down, but with more euphoria than a benzo.

Also, DO NOT combine barbs with opiates, especially if you've never done that before. That's a sure-fire way to OD.

[tch2296]

I talked with my mother a lot about getting on methadone maintenance, but frankly, the idea horrifies her. We can't afford $400-500 a month for Suboxone maintenance, so that is not an option either.

My parents want me to stop using altogether, and the people in the detox I was in really sold them on the idea of this rehab. Supposedly it has an excellent success rate. They don't allow any kind of opiate maintenance, or any med that can be abused. Like if you were on benzos for anxiety, you would not be allowed to attend this rehab. Absolutely no mind-altering substances, except a few anti-depressants (also Neurontin and Lyrica apparently).

I don't want to get on methadone. I was 3 months clean, and I was only shooting dope for a month, it was like a binge, and my withdrawals aren't gonna be that bad. My habit just wasn't bad enough to justify methadone.

It is really hard for me to imagine myself emerging from this rehab a changed man, without a craving for opiates. Opiates are like a part of my personality now, they are like a part of my life, and it will be hard to change that. I love them so much and I always know that if things get shitty, 1 shot will make me feel better. I think I'm always gonna be like that.

But hey, I'm gonna give it my all, my parents are making me go, there is no choice. Hopefully something will change, maybe it will work, maybe I'll meet people that can help me stay clean. Who know. I really want to get clean, I just can't imagine it at this point.

About the bupe, I will probably still shoot it, despite the risk, because of the higher bioavailability and the high it produces.

[Narkotikon]

I can understand being forced to go. I've been there. But, honestly, all I can say is that don't expect things to change until YOU want them to. I don't mean to be mean by that, but don't expect to be cured or fixed just because your family wants you to go. People only quit when they want to quit, and if your family doesn't believe that, they're just wasting money. Believe me. I've been in that situation.

Secondly, don't believe success rates. The Salvation Army placed tried to do that shit. They told my middle sister that they had a 60% success rate. I think that's partly because 1.) it's a six-month, longer term program, and the longer you stay somewhere and not use, the easier it will be. They say the first year is the hardest. And 2.) I think it's because of the religious aspect of it. I mean, granted, it wasn't nearly as bad as what that Teen Challenge place would have been, but I feel like some of the people there that I observed just traded their drug addiction to an addiction to saying "praise god."

Rehab will only give you the tools to stay clean, they can't guarantee that you'll be "cured" or fixed, and if they do, they're full of shit. They can teach you about addiction, about the 12-steps, about triggers, cravings, how to cope in better ways, etc. They can't wave a magic wand and make guarantees that you'll never use again. So, I hope your family doesn't buy into that. They'll be disappointed if it doesn't work out, and that itself just causes a lot of problems.

Some states have subsidized methadone and even bupe programs. Ohio, for instance, I know offers free methadone. I don't exactly know of the criteria, but I'm not really interested. I was on MMT for ten months, and I just didn't do well on it. In some ways, I think it made things worse. I blame myself and the clinic. I just do much better on Subs. But, Subs are expensive.

The pharm company that makes Subs offers a patient-assistance program. I believe it's stickied on the bupe page. I never tried to get into it, but I think it's based on your income, and then you have to go to a doctor willing to fill out the forms, and if you're approved, they will send your medication each month, but the doctor can only have I think three patients on the program at one time. So, that may be an option.

Also, and I don't know if this is going to happen or not, because they can always file for an extension, but the patent on Subs expires in October of this year. But, again, that doesn't guarantee that there will be a generic. They could always file for an extension, which I'm sure the pharm company will.

Edit: I think this is very important too. I don't know why you use. I mean, I don't know if you self-medicate, or use to cope / deal with things, or if it's just because you just really like to get high, or what. But, I will say that if you want to get sober, and try, and go to the rehab, it's going to be so much harder if you have to go back into the same environment. Now, you can do it. For instance, if you use to cope / deal with family, and if you argue a lot, and that's a trigger, you can learn different coping skills and how to deal with those triggers. It can be done. But, ultimately, it would be so much easier if your family (in that situation) would be willing to change too / admit that they're a "part" (and part is the key word) of the problem. For instance, if them telling you you're a looser makes you want to get high to forget about it, then I see nothing wrong with asking them to stop saying that shit. That's just common sense. Unfortunately, some families aren't willing to do that though. I mean, again, I don't know why you use, but not changing the environment and dealing with why you use is going to trip you and most people up

[roxi*stardust]

I am going to be blunt so don't be offended by my post. You say your habit isn't bad enough to justify Methadone but you have been to how many rehabs and failed Suboxone at least once or twice. Frankly, I don't see why you wouldn't try Methadone if you are serious about getting stable. You say you have went back to using because of your cravings even with Suboxone. What else is there.

Your mom is not keen on the idea of MMT but I think it's time she stopped listening to the people at these rehabs, they are there for one sole purpose, to make $$$$. They don't give a shit if you fail and end up back there time and again. In fact, they would prefer it. I think your mom should read up on opiate addiction, read about the success rate of being opiate free. You needs to quit lying to herself and quit letting these voo doo healers convince her they can "heal" you. There is a damn good chance that you will relapse again. If I were your Mom, I would much rather see you get stable on Methadone, be evaluated for depression/anxiety, be treated for any underlying psych condition, and work towards getting off the Methadone at a later date sometime in the future than go to another rehab and fail; which is the most likely thing to happen. You and your mom need to sit down and talk about this.

[PiLL CLiNToN]

LOL, I'm really kind of overwhelmed here by the variety of comments, almost NONE of which have anything to do with my original question.
In the summer of 2007 I was making $700 a night on the weekends selling coke and rolls, .

This is not somehing you advertise.....esp since youre talking to a bunch of strangers just giving you a heads up dude use caution before its to late.

[tch2296]

This is not somehing you advertise.....esp since youre talking to a bunch of strangers just giving you a heads up dude use caution before its to late.
I wasn't advertising it, there was a thread about "Greatest Opio Moments" and I had mentioned it in there, it was kind of integral to my story since it explained how I was able to consume ungodly amounts of drugs without any sort of financial trouble. Plays a large role in this period of time being the best of my life. I am not afraid that people know that, I am not sure exactly what kind of danger that this poses anyways, but thanks for the heads up...

Roxi... In many ways you are right. I highly doubt that I will emerge from rehab a "new man" without the urge to get high. I just can't imagine myself that way, it has been such a large part of my life for so long it will be very hard to change. But I went to a few NA meetings and met a few people that were exactly like me, just as addicted to opiates, and one especially told me that if I really put the effort in, it is possible. This guy had gone to the same rehab I'm going to.It has worked for some people.

I have only been to two detoxes and I have never been to rehab. The first detox was necessary only because my Suboxone doctor lost his license, thus forcing me into benzo + opiate withdrawal. I would likely have had a seizure without it. Also, I have only had one real relapse - this last couple months with the heroin. So I really don't have much of a history of failed detoxes or multiple relapses...

I also stayed off opiates for about 3 months after the first detox. This shows me that it IS possible for me to remain clean. I gave in to the urge a couple months ago, but I feel that if I had a good doctor, who wasn't afraid to prescribe benzos (like my last sub doctor), I would be able to resist this urge if I really tried.
I am young enough that I still have a chance, why not try? Fuck methadone, that shit is impossible to quit and if I start taking it, I am quite sure I won't stand a chance at long-term sobriety. I would certainly consider Suboxone if I had the financial resources, but as I explained, they aren't there at the moment. Suboxone is less mind-numbing and not as ridiculously addictive as methadone.

It is very true that few people are able to fully recover from opiate addiction and stay clean long-term. But I am in a position that puts me at an advantage over most recovering addicts. I have a loving family who will pay to help me get better. I have only been an opiate addict for 3 years, and have had periods of sobriety. I am in good physical shape and am not miserably depressed. Most importantly, I really do want some sobriety, at least for a while, until I have a steady, well-paying job. I can do it, I'm not just gonna throw in my hat and resign to lifelong opiate addiction.

I do feel like I need a few years without opiates. I need to have my mind at full capacity when I go to finish my degree, especially since I've already put myself at an academic disadvantage because of poor grades during periods of heavy opiate/cocaine use. Maybe once I land a good job and can hold it, I might be able to handle using opiates.

I will always love opiates, they are like an old friend to me, they are always there to help when I feel shitty. That's gonna be the challenge for me. Realizing I need to be able to cope without having to cop. Being able to handle periods of unhappiness. I'll probably also need a good shrink and a Valium prescription, I think if I had benzos I wouldn't have relapsed, I just felt so jittery and miserable for so long I gave in.

[alowishus]

Motherfucker you can type tch, :p of course you are not at the point in life where you want/need to quit.

When you lose your house or family or kill someone driving drunk, etc things may change. Of course none of this may happen to you, and you coast through life using all the while staying a functional addict.

Not just being caught by mom w/ drugs and being made to get clean is gonna make you want to get clean.

Like I said (I think), you got a lot of time left to fuck your life up, make a plan, and take your time and do it right. :rolleyes:;)

[jimmyfingers]

Sorry tch i geuss i must have hit a nerve you overly sensative bitch. i just find it extremely funny how you were old enough to be tony montana and make all that money being a badass hustler, yet you want to complain about how your mom's insurance won't cover your suboxone. it seems like you would man up and get a job to help pay for your fuck ups you.

that being said I really would like to see you get clean. i wish the best for you. i know its not easy but its not impossible either.

[bronyraur]

I am going to be blunt so don't be offended by my post. You say your habit isn't bad enough to justify Methadone but you have been to how many rehabs and failed Suboxone at least once or twice. Frankly, I don't see why you wouldn't try Methadone if you are serious about getting stable. You say you have went back to using because of your cravings even with Suboxone. What else is there.

Your mom is not keen on the idea of MMT but I think it's time she stopped listening to the people at these rehabs, they are there for one sole purpose, to make $$$$. They don't give a shit if you fail and end up back there time and again. In fact, they would prefer it. I think your mom should read up on opiate addiction, read about the success rate of being opiate free. You needs to quit lying to herself and quit letting these voo doo healers convince her they can "heal" you. There is a damn good chance that you will relapse again. If I were your Mom, I would much rather see you get stable on Methadone, be evaluated for depression/anxiety, be treated for any underlying psych condition, and work towards getting off the Methadone at a later date sometime in the future than go to another rehab and fail; which is the most likely thing to happen. You and your mom need to sit down and talk about this.

Good advice, Roxi.

MMT is a viable option that you really should consider–it's a lot better than going in and out of rehab.

<snip>...I might be able to handle using opiates.<snip>

Frankly, you probably never will be able to–you went on a month long bender, and only stopped because you were forced to. Do yourself a favor and admit that it'll either be all or nothing. That's what I learned. I'll always be on opiates. If I wasn't scripted them for pain, I'd be obtaining them any way possible. That's just the way it is for me (and lots of folks here–whether we like it or not).

I'm not trying to put you down, or discourage you, I just want you to know that it isn't an easy battle...

[tch2296]

Thanks for all the advice guys - especially roxi and bron - I don't take offense to your posts at all, rather I am grateful you are blunt about it. I'd rather you be honest, and i value your advice very much.

Certainly, MMT is a viable option, I am just not at the point quite yet where I want to surrender to it, because I know once I start that, there is no turning back. At least that's the way it seems, from the people I've talked to who regularly take methadone as a maintenance treatment.

What I meant by being able to handle opiate use, was that maybe once I have a steady job I could afford to be an addict - meaning using all the time. Personally, if I had the money and the means, I'm sure I would do that. But at this point in my life, an opiate addiction is a hindrance to my education and well-being, so I can't handle it. I am not so disillusioned that I think I'll be able to snort an 80 once every couple of weeks - it's all-or-nothing for me, that's just the way it is, I've learned that from experience.

I am hoping that I'll be able to stay away from the opiates for a few years, until I finish my education and start into a decent career.

And jimmyfingers, I wasn't Tony Montana, I sold a couple ounces of coke on the weekends, I wasn't a "bad-ass drug dealer", I was making a ton of money, more than I had ever made before, but it's not like I was moving kilos or anything. Stop over-dramatizing what I said, you little cunt. This income afforded me the ability to use all the drugs I wanted. It afforded me the ability to live a wild lifestyle, and I still smile every time I think about that period of my life, it was AWESOME. However, this lifestyle eventually led me into a severe opiate and cocaine addiction which has persisted to this day.

I personally don't give a shit what you think, jimmyfingers, I don't give a shit that you hope I recover. You're just a grumpy little cocksucker, that's all I think about you.

That being said, I appreciate the advice from everyone else, it's good to hear other peoples' point of view, especially when their advice is based upon years of experience.

[roxi*stardust]

Well tch, I hope this works for you but in you yourself said you have talked to people who said it is possible if you are commited to it. Frankly, I don't think you are commited to it. Reading your posts above comvinces me of it. You admit if you had money you would just use everyday, that means you are not quitting because you ABSOLUTELY WANT to be free of opiates, you are quitting because you can't support your habit and your parents and family want you to go to rehab. You have to WANT to be clean for yourslef and WANT to be free of opiates because you don't want to be an addict your entire life not because you can't do them right now. I truly hope you can get off opiates and cocaine! Remember cocaine addiction is strictly about willlpower, no physical dependence like with opiates. Good luck!

[tch2296]

Man, roxi, believe it or not, your posts are really causing me to re-think all this. Now I feel really confused about what to do.

I guess I was hoping I would learn something in rehab that would change the way I thought about things, the way I thought about life in general, maybe teach me to be a bit more spiritual. But in my heart I know I'm not that type of person and when it comes down to it I'm always gonna be an addict, even if I do stay sober, that part of me will always be there, and I doubt that any period of sobriety will last long.

I meant it when I said that if I had the ways and means I would continue using opiates.

I know that methadone would satisfy the craving that is always in the back of my head. I know it would give me some much-needed stability in my life, rather than all the ups-and-downs that have been plaguing me lately. There is just a part of me that doesn't want to surrender to methadone.

I guess I need to put a bit more thought into this before I commit to rehab, or it will just be a waste of my family's money. I am gonna have a talk with my mom tonight about this. Even though I have talked with her in the past about getting on methadone, and she hates the idea. I think she just doesn't want to believe that her son is a full-blown opiate addict, but the fact is, I am, and I probably will always be.

I really need some stability to get back on my feet, so I can finish my education and pursue a career. I've tried for 7 months now to get over this addiction, but it always beats me back down. It's like my life has been put on hold, I think I have to approach this more rationally, because shit is just not working right now and I'm sick and fucking tired of living here with my parents feeling like shit. I need to move on.

Either way thanks a lot for the input. Now I just feel really confused, I am really gonna have to think all this over, it's some heavy shit. :(

[roxi*stardust]

Here is a post that goes to the heart of this very conversation.

http://forum.opiophile.org/showpost.php?p=360920&postcount=22
Little preachy but goes to the point I was trying to make

[tch2296]

Wow, that was an amazing post. I ended up reading this guy's blog (suboxonetalkzone.com) for a long time. He's a super smart guy, a former anesthesiologist, psychiatrist, and 15-year opiate addict. Pretty amazing stuff on his site.