Suicidal friend. What should I do?

[norseman]

Hey guys, a good friend of mine is going through a real tough patch. Basically lost his pride and joy (his business), wife split with the kids, and just last night he lost his license for drinking and driving. To top it all off its his B-day today.

Lately he has been very depressed and when I am with him he talks about hurting himself for no reason, and just ending it all. I think he really trusts me mainly cause he knows I struggle with addiction as well, but opiates instead of alcohol.

The majority of his problems come from drinking, but I am really worried about the way he has been talking about hurting himself and being of no use anymore etc.. I feel like he is reaching out and wants some help, but I have no idea what to do other then listen and talk with him and be a good friend.

I don't think he would do this to his kids and wife but you just never know and I feel like he is telling me this stuff for a reason. Have any of you guys had to deal with a friend talking like this? How should I treat this situation?

[opiALOVE]

i say to talk to him about the kids. no kids should be fatherless. kinda a tuff one, if you tell someone else you lose trust, plus possible 5150 he prolly wont talk to you anymore. otherhand sometimes those 5250 72 hour holds wake some ppl up. but if he has children yer best chance is to appeal to him that way.

let him know everyone loses shit, we all have. the drinking is a hard one, tuff to quit. brutal WDs, worse than ours i think, tho ive never had them, known many that have. seizures can be deadly, and cant ween like opis. man thats tuff. i think most ppl in this situation just need to know they are loved, have value, needed, those kinds of things. if he hurts himself tho, he will hurt his kids in a massive way. he may be gone, but there is some brutal damage done to children who lose parents from suicide. he cant do that to them. not only will they not have a dad but he could really ruin them psychologically. i think thats yer best bet to help... the kids..

[Narkotikon]

Poppylvr would be the perfect one to answer this question, as I believe she's a psych nurse.

But, based on my experience, you DEFNITELY should intervene IF--AND ONLY IF--you honestly do feel as though they are truly going to harm themselves. Suicide is not funny. It's a VERY serious thing. If they're your true friend, they will understand and not get mad.

When I was 20-22, I would routinely make threats of harming myself to my family, always for attention. I was NEVER serious about it. BUT, my oldest sister is a social worker, and was working at psych emergency at a local hospital at the time, and she would ALWAYS convince the doctors there that I was serious, even though I was never serious, and just wanted some form of attention from my family, and the doctors would at least have me held for a night, sometimes the full 72 hours.

Looking back, I understand why she did it. But, I do think she crossed the line. I mean, she was my sister, worked at the hospital where I was held, and I find that highly unethical. I also find it unethical for her to call in favors from psychiatrists to put me on a hold. So, I had issues with her for that for a long time. But, again, suicide is a major thing, and should NEVER be taken lightly, so I can understand why she did it. I was just mad at how she did it.

And, the funny thing is, she herself has major depressive episodes sometimes, where she can't even get out of bed. She herself should be held on a psych hold sometimes, at the very least to rework the shitload of meds she's on. But, because she's a social worker, she knows what to say and what not to say, so even if my family tried to intervene, I highly doubt she'd get held. She just knows how to play the psych system.

But, back to your friend. If you even feel the slightest bit of truth in what they're saying, then I say intervene.

Signs are:

Do they have a feasable, detailed plan?

Are they harming themselves?

Are they saying odd things, like making plans to dispose of their stuff, saying things like "when I'm gone, I want you to have this?"

Making a suicide note.

Making arrangements for work / school / family members (i.e., telling you to let them know things).

Things like that are red-flags.

[Uncle Wiggly]

The majority of his problems come from drinking, but I am really worried about the way he has been talking about hurting himself and being of no use anymore etc.. I feel like he is reaching out and wants some help, but I have no idea what to do other then listen and talk with him and be a good friend.

I'm not a medical professional but I can tell you that your friend IS reaching out to you. Does he have any family members you can talk to about the things he's telling you? Do you think he would talk to a counselor if you suggested it to him?

My personal experience with two very similar situations leads me to believe that your friend needs help. The sooner the better. He's been through a lot of negative experiences. Add to that the fact he's abusing alcohol, which is a depressant, and you've got a very unstable mix.

I hope this helps in some small way. Good luck.

[Cherry's Jubilee]

Uncle Wiggly pointed out the most important thing, which you've obviously recognized as significant--your friend is reaching out to you. I believe you should respond quickly and forcefully. He's clearly in a very dangerous and hopeless place right now--in addition to losing his job, family conflicts, struggles with addiction, verbalizing thoughts of "ending it all" etc., the fact that alcohol is his DOC puts him in an even more high-risk category. Statistically speaking, alcohol plays a significantly higher role in suicides than any other drug, probably due to such severe loss of inhibition and logical decision-making capacities.

I've worked with a lot of suicidal individuals and it's never something to tiptoe around. I would voice your concerns, ask him flat-out if he has a plan. Ask him what he believes it would solve. Be compassionate and empathetic, but firm. He needs to hear that if he makes that decision, there's no going back, and he's choosing to permanently impact the lives of his family. One of the most effective things I've found in working with people seriously contemplating suicide--especially those with children--is to talk to them about the "Legacy of Suicide."

He will leave a family who will have to deal with the mixture of suicide-derived emotions in addition to the normal feelings of dealing with a death. There is also something else. Suicide is hereditary. Once a family member carries it out, a Pandora's box is opened for other family members by creating an acceptable or alternative end-of-life option. I've personally seen this in a number of families. Ask him. I wouldn't be surprised if he has an uncle or cousin or grandparent who has taken that way out. A family history of suicide is the #1 pre-existing risk factor for individuals who attempt suicide. Suicide creates a precedent; bestows permission; forms a familial legacy that may be impossible to eliminate.

What parent would want to leave that legacy to their children? It's a selfish choice. NOTE: I'm not saying here that a person who has considered suicide is selfish. It's desperate thinking. It is the act of suicide, murdering someone that everyone close to you cares about..... that is selfish. Please understand the difference is huge. Evin Daly wrote, "Suicide is the result of an inability to cope; of intolerance to pain and suffering, physical and mental. It’s described by some as a cowardly act; the action of a weakling. It’s not. It takes incredible courage for someone to decide when and where to end their lives. They must, in the time prior to carrying out the act, go through what seems like a lifetime of self-incrimination and self-loathing; face an avalanche of hopelessness to conclude that the world would be better off without them. They die many times prior to the final act. There is no upside for the suicidal; it’s not an escape to somewhere; it’s an end. A termination."

I would tell him this. Suicide doesn't take away the pain.... it multiplies it. It multiplies it times TEN and gives it to everyone that loves you and cares about you.... You can't steal $10 from your grandmother, how can you kill her grandchild? You can't steal a hairbrush from your best friend, how can you murder her best friend? You can barely take a toy away from your child for an hour.... how can you steal their last line of defense, their parent, life as they know it? You can't. You aren't that selfish. You'll never be that selfish. Promise now that you won't ever forget. Not now. Not ever. Promise me that.


You would be surprised how effective it can be to ask someone to promise you that they won't harm themselves, or that they'll agree to talk to someone first, or that they won't do anything until they talk to you again. I don't know why it's so effective but they even use it professionally. Poppylvr probably knows what I'm talking about--it's an official, approved, evidence-based therapeutic intervention usually called "Safety Contracts" or "No-Suicide Contracts" and they can be verbal or written.



Sorry for the long post--you asked! This issue is painfully close to my heart right now. I've seen suicide destroy so many lives. :(

[bronyraur]

This is excellent advice, CJ.

I'd just offer this thread, which has lots of suicide/depression hotlines: http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=19896