found p. nitida seed extract 98%!

[luvrofopies]

ive been interested in trying the akkuma seed but when jacky told of his experience of the extremely bitter seed it turned me off. when now im turned on again. check it out. its a little more than half way down the page. http://www.ethnobotanicals.com/PureLandCatalogPS.html

[jacky]

this new 98% picralima nitida extract is of interest.

apparently the makers of the extract were able to isolate some specific alkaloids from the blend.

some think that this might allow the other alkaloids to have stronger activity.

there have been varying reports, from people with no opiate tolerance feeling very little from upwards of 200-400 milligrams of the material...
to people with no habit claiming they experienced effects.
a few opiate tolerant folks have made statements that the new extract is effective, and not effective.

the thing that troubles me at this point, is that no forthcoming information as to which exact compounds have been isolates and removed from the most part from this extracted alkaloid profile.

the prominent alkaloid in this blend is a reported agonist/antagonist as well.

another compound is a kappa agonist.

and yet another, has mu, kappa, and delta agonist activity.

which alkaloid they removed, in my opinion, should be shared with at least the people buying the extract.
as obviously, if they really know for sure which alkaloid they have removed, then they should be able to specify when specific alkaloid was targeted.

at this point I think they are just trying to protect their process and product perhaps....and it might be understandable for a time being, of keeping this proprietary.
in the interest of science and the customer though, I think eventually they will have to reveal their process.

I was very excited to research similiar extracts.
I bought a half gram, and also recieved a few hundred milligrams extra as a sample.

but I only consumed a small amount.
I felt some possible neck/muscle pain associated with the small amount....but its probable it was just me, and not the alkaloid blend.

I tested only as a cautionary amount.

and I have yet to research the alkaloids further.

I think its possible that this plant, and its alkaloid extract, have more potential for the person that is already opiate dependent.
surely, some people are either unaffected by the alkaloids, or have a high natural tolerance for such things.

it seems that the raw material, the 70-80% extract, and this alkaloid blend, all have similiar effects in the sense that some people experience nothing really, with the consumption of all different forms of the plant and its extracts, and some people experience moderate to potent effects with at least the extract forms.

the seeds are hard to get down in raw form. and I think these alkaloids might be a bit harder to extract with the standard A/B techs.
but still I think the kitchen chemist might be able to get the raw plant material extracted into a potent enough form that they could gel cap the extract, and have alot easier time consuming the material.
the seeds are literally loaded with alkaloids, so the raw material might be cost effective for those with a tight budget.
the 98% extract isnt so expensive that exploratory research is going to cost you alot. but if you decide you like the material, it might be a bit high priced for using on a regular basis.
I think the potential of a good price reduction is possible, as the seeds are alkaloid rich, and not extremely expensive to source.

I contacted the vendor, and asked about specifics.
I am particularly interested to know if the full kappa agonist was targeted for removal. it would make sense, and if so, it would be very interesting to have access to research an isolated kappa agonist.
he couldnt give me an answer either way.
when/if we finally find out which alkaloid types are removed, maybe we will get a little closer to understanding this interesting plant.

http://forum.opiophile.org/images/attach/jpg.gif pn01 lambo picralima image.jpg (http://forum.opiophile.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3480&stc=1&d=1235942556) (34.5 KB)

heres a photo of picralima nitida seeds courtesy of Lambo exporters

[luvrofopies]

i totally agree that we need more info on which alkaloids are in and out or if its just a full spectrum type thing. theres something like 8 or more alkaloids in there and each seem to have there own mu, delta, kappa, and antagonist and maybe partial agonist. its simply fascinating that each have there own recepter binding profile. where this seed is used as a pain killer the seed is used in "Picap Capsules" each containing 250 mgs of powdered seed. this amounts to approximately 1.4 mg of akuammine the main alkaloid which is actually an antagonist but there is evidence that it is metabolized to a full agonist, plus 0.085 mg akuammidine and 0.015 mg ψ-akuammigine. (i know you know these facts jacky, just saying this in case interested readers who are uneducated of this seed.) so these alkaloids must be quite potent. and a 98% extract might be dangerous for a non tolerant person. so since i have a decent tolerance at the moment i might try some of this stuff out and see if it keeps wds away...maybe. but if anyone is adventurous enough to try this extract which has potential give it ago and report back. hopefully you can get more details of the extraction process of this stuff jacky.

[jacky]

I finally got around to trying this 98% alkaloid extract.

I took some about 30 minutes after eating....7.30 pm, after a full day of work/research, and about 3 hours of solid reading...so I was pretty tired and wore out physically.

I took it in the following doses.
100 milligrams...waited around 45 minutes..
100 milligrams again.
and around an hour and a half,
another 100 milligrams.
and within 30 minutes...took the final 200 milligrams I had.

I noticed an alert and stimulation with the first two hundred milligrams.
it was a familiar, slight stimulant feeling that I notice from previous times consuming this plants seeds/extracts.
although there was no nausea.

I felt drifting sensations.
a glowing feeling...definite, but mild stimulant effects.
basically a general feeling of relaxation/stimulation, and my arms and legs, felt re energized.

I put off my nightly opiate dose for 2 hours.
and I didnt take the extract until 3 hours after my mid day opiate dose.

I have used picralima and put off my standard opaite dose for a few hours till I started feeling a bit crappy. picralima alkaloids do not seem to replace opiates...but the alkaloids might indeed cover a bit of withdrawl symptoms.

I can see how some people might compare to kratom,....but I felt no euphoria from the seed alkaloids that was similiar to kratom.
and no downer type effects.

just a very interesting stimulation, that does not seem strong enough to hold off sleep for more than a few hours.
redosing every hour might change that....but I could hardly afford to take 4-5 grams to find that out.

I have tried this plant in various forms, and every time gotten a low grade stimulation...that does seem to mix very well with other opioids/opiates.

the alkaloid blend also tastes very similiar to coffee, like instant coffee. the bitter is entirely tolerable, and actually, tastes good.
this seed I think has alot of potential as a coffee substitute, as opposed to being an opium substitute!
I dont see how some people can take a half gram of this alkaloid, and not feel at least some stimulant effects...be they mild.
the stimulation is actually a very nice, and different type of stimulant effect.

I got a bit of thumping in my ears. something that happens when I mix ssri's and opiates/opioids. even large doses of tryptophan can do this.
I thought about the sensation in my ears...sat back, and quit focusing on what I was, and sort of meditated for a few seconds...and the thumping completely went away.
I kicked back and enjoyed the slight, clarifying stimulant effect.

later in the night I am writing this....some 6 hours after consumption. I can still feel a sort of mild stimulant effect. I have pain in my back, around the kidney areas. definitely feels like my kidneys are getting a work out...sore, as if they were bruised.
I think it might actually be my muscles having been a bit more strained more than usual in the last 6 hours.

I think this extract is great for what it is.
my only suggestions, is that the price be worked out a little cheaper, and that divulging in what manner this alkaloid profile differs from the standard full spectrum product.

I think this seed has alot of potential as a mild stimulant.
there is the possibility that it might help during withdrawl in some manner.
there is the possibility that daily use might augment tolerance to standard opiates/opioids...
and it seems that for me, these alkaloids are a reliable, mellow stimulant that goes very well with standard opiates/opioids.

combined with kratom would probably work really nice as well.

I cant believe how much better the flavor of the extracted alkaloids are over the acrid bitterness of the whole seed.

I am pretty much over considering that this seeds alkaloid might produce a strong acting opioid experience. maybe its possible with further isolation products.
as one wise soul said, taking alkaloids out of a plant are alot easier than putting them back!
ha ha.

I would really like to try the single acting kappa agonist in this plant in pure, isolate form. if there is possibly another kappa opioid agonist with psychedelic activity, I want to know!

this plants products seem to affect some people more strongly than others. it seems those on opiates/opioids seem to get more effect than some that are taking no opiates/opioids.
the alkaloids are not extremely potent as far as action and weight is concerned...
but the seeds have a moderate to high alkaloid content generally listed as being somewhere between 3-4.8 % according to one source on african ethnobotany.

that means that 100 grams of seed, could potentially hold as much as 4.8 grams of alkaloids, and would most surely at least/ most likely at least contain 1 gram alkaloids per 100 grams.
so a pound should contain, anywhere from at least 4 grams to maybe up to a little over 16 grams of a range of picralima nitida alkaloids.

those figures seem consistant with my initial experiences of consuming a little over 20 grams of seed material, and getting similiar effects as I did consuming a a little over a gram of the 70-80% alkaloid extract, or .5 grams of this 98% extract.

the seeds are not extraordinarily expensive usually....it just depends on where you get the seeds.

with those figures, I think that people might see that if picralima nitida gets more attention, the alkaloids would have potential for dropping in price.
especially if a person was interested in doing their own alkaloid extractions.

I never did get exact yeilds from the chemist that initially produced some picralima nitida alkaloid extracts for me.
but I do remember him saying that the alkaloid yeilds were alot higher than trying to extract similiar types of opioid active compounds from leaf material of other apocynacea plants.

and its possible I guess that these seeds could occasionally be higher in alkaloid content than even 4.8%....I think some species of seed can contain almost up to 10% alkaloid content!

my interest is renewed with this plant. I think its got potential for the dietary supplement industry.
someone with money and the energy and time should try and get this plant approved on FDA approved bottling/handling plants...if nothing, as a coffee substitute flavoring/herbal stimulant component.

you know, I also felt that tonight that these alkaloids could have a slight aphrodisiac quality...but I didnt get to actually test that out.
maybe some other time.

sometimes you just have to accept a plant the way nature intended.
the alkaloids are not extremely potent, but mother nature compensates by giving a great general alkaloid yeild....and the plant is obviously not endangered.

[luvrofopies]

damn you tested this out quick jacky! from your experience i don't think that i will be trying this extract, and it sounds like its not too good for warding off withdrawal. its interesting that you said that it worked better with other opioids. mitragynine also has this effect in which if a full mu agonist is used with mitragynine it helps it cross from delta receptors over to mu. maybe p. nitida or at least the alkaloids in the extract behave in a manner smiler to kratom.

kinda strange that it produced a stimulant effect and that you read that its more effective in some people and less in others. maybe theres a metabolites produced in the liver by cyp450 like codeine and tramadol. i didnt know that alkaloid content in the seeds was almost 5%, fucking high compared to most other plants and seeds.

well it looks like this seed will need more alkaloid isolation and testing to really have a valuable opioid properties. it just sounds too "dirty" right now or at least on its own to be useful to junkys. maybe theres some good possible synthed chems from akkumma seed that may be explored in the future. this seed is just to unheard of to put much effort into tests and research.

damn you do some interesting work jacky. i hope you go far in the area of botanical and plant research. and thanks for letting me into opiophile its been great.:D