Simplicity

[Hammerhead]

I know the info is in here coz i have used it. but this not a good time for me to go heavy searching.

Similarity of names and international naming makes it hard as well.

And I need Plain Speak not Doctor/chemist malarky.

(We are in Australia.)
I take Subatex and am aware of timing, dosages etc. for me 4 mgs means 12 hours immunity. (thanks to the excellent graphs here) as well as self experimentation with both types.

But I am having trouble explaining the fact that Suboxone is Bupe + Naloxone (Narcan). and Tex is just Bupe

My friend waited 13 hours and took her Suboxone. She has gone into heavy withdrawals. Full on.

I have some suboxone but she is talking about scoring. Have explained that scoring now will possibly make her worse. I know that suboxone will make her better but she refuses to listen to me about it.

[Hoss]

Hello Hammer - first off, you take Subutex, yet now what you have is Suboxone?

Also, it is largely dependent on the condition of your friends long and short term history with opiates concerning why she went into precipidated WD's; what opiate(s) was she taking? What is her tolerance like? When was the last time she dosed her DOC before Buprenorphine administration? I know you mentioned 13 hours, but given such I suppose what she has been using beforehand is the real question here, and furthermore if she has ever been on Buprenorphine before - that and ROA; is she taking the Bup sublingually or otherwise?

With a little more information I believe we could steer you in a better direction. Through personal experience I know Subbies can throw curveballs at you, so the more info the better in order for us to give you the best knowledge we can offer.

[Opiyum]

doing dope now wouldn't make her feel worse thats for sure. Precip works the other way around. She should be feeling better soon.
And as I;'ve learned its not the naloxone thats making her sick its the bupe itself. so until it decides to start working and the rest of the dope is gone she is gonna feel shitty.
Whatever it is she wont be feeling this way for very long at the most 24 hours until she gets stable on the subs.
Thats my 2 cent.

[Opiyum]

Hello Hammer - first off, you take Subutex, yet now what you have is Suboxone?

Also, it is largely dependent on the condition of your friends long and short term history with opiates concerning why she went into precipidated WD's; what opiate(s) was she taking? What is her tolerance like? When was the last time she dosed her DOC before Buprenorphine administration?

With a little more information I believe we could steer you in a better direction.

He said 13 hours. Im guessing she was on methadone.

Ask her if she has taken any Methadone in the last 24 hours.

[OCintheOC]

i was on sxone for a long time and my doc told me if i was gonna relapse that naltrex is active in body for up to 40 hrs..but a min of 24 should be waited. i have tried waiting like 12 hrs..after taking 4 and puked after doing a shot and was shivering...horrible. my advice is play it sae wait 24 at least. I KNOW it sucks and you dont feel that great but youll be worse off if you dont. i hated sbxone it made me depressed and ended up getting more fucked up then when i started it.

[Opiyum]

to OCINTHEOC and the hammerdude....

Something isn't making sense here. Naltrexone only has a half life of like four hours or so....maybe six I don't know but if you have taken naltrexone and you use dope it will not make you sick. It will block the effects of the agonist to a point until you break through it in which case you will get high.
I used to think (up until recently) that it was the naloxone in suboxone that was giving me my precip WD's but its the bupe because of it's super high affinity for the receptors.
It could be an allergy to Naltrexone because an allergy to it resembles opiate WD's.

I have no idea what happened to you OCintheOC. That's just weird. Also if you were taking Sxone as you said then you werent on Naltrexone you were on Naloxone. In which case Naloxone doesn't have as long a last effect as Naltrexone.

This is all confusing me very much.

[Hoss]

This is all confusing me very much.

Me too, which is why I guess I went on ahead inadvertently and did not keep it 'Simplicity' style by asking so many questions in my post, but I just know there are so many variables with Bup through personal experience.

[Opiyum]

Yeah I think it's just the personal variabilities that is at work here. Since the guy hasn't posted again I guess things settled down.

[roxi*stardust]

I don't know why people even post these questions if they read any of the threads stickied in this forum they would know. Everything they need to know. There is no searching involved, they are stuck up top.

[Hammerhead]

First. My bad. I take Subatex. and that is what i had to offer. Not Suboxone. My error is exactly part of my whinge about confusing nomenclature. I got the names mixed and I am supposed to know what I am talking about. (that is also a foul rumour and base lie.:cool:)
So what happened in the end? She scored H and got better.
Yes the Naloxone part only lasts for two hours yet she had these symptoms five hours later. And that was waiting 13 hours after her last H. (despite not feeling WD's she took the Suboxone to keep the script current.)
Hoss asks about her history. Long term H and Methadone user who had spent 2-3 years reducing dosages before stopping done and going onto Suboxone low dose as a gap drug, especially in view of her long history of the chemist culture. Also she has long history of benzo use

Opiyum. What you said is just about what happened.

OCintheOC. You fallen for same trap about names. Naloxone(short half life) is not Naltrexone (long half life.)
Then the docs, medics and know everythings get upset if we use term Narcan. FIKW., when just about everybody else gets confused and stays this way. (and as I find personnally bupe to be a dumb down, it just about becomes impossible for me too proprly explain the differnces at the best of times. Let alone to an hysteric with preicipatated WD's).

Yes the variables. My best guess is that she had a miss in the previous 24 hours and opiate was still present in the muscle tissue. She may have been lying (benzos are excellent for this kind of self created make believe). And had a taste that morning. When she was better she admitted that she had a similar reaction when she first started on the Suboxone, post methadone. And I give her top marks for getting over methadone. It's just the community thing of all your friends been users got her back using H. Way too early in the long term process. Especially with a benzo history, confusing the whole diagnoses and treatment options.

Roxi. Why start a new thread? I had a crises going on and did not have time to wade through the sticky threads and seek out the answers I needed. Especially as I had read those threads with one eye, seeking answers relating to my conditions. Hence I was asking for pointers to those parts of the thread (or plainspeak links), which may have related to the circumstances, we were facing.. I would still like them so that I may paraphrase and set out a small Info Zine written in Australian. As Medical and American texts are near useless for those with low reading and comprehension skills, like so many of our brothers and sisters.
Especially if facing hysterical conditions.

And this may be an answer. The Suboxone made her feel off colour, so she psyches that into WD and then comes here looking for approval to get on. That she doesn't get. So she uses hysteria to increase the symptoms until I am nagged enough to get on for her. I resisted for over an hour to be sure the Narcan was out of the picture. Even then we got her to split the dose to be sure a further adverse reaction would be halved and to settle her receptors. The response? "I should have had it in one" :juggle:

[roxi*stardust]

First, you would not have to wade through stickies. Those stickies are plain and straight to the point; How long after taking my DOC can I take Subs? and I took Subs how long until I can take my DOC and get high?

Secondly I would like to clear a thing or two so people are not confused by what they have read in this thread, Opiyum is right it is very confusing because there is alot of misinformation in some of the posts.

So, Let's clear this up. It is not the Naloxone in Suboxone that causes withdrawal, it is the Bupe itself that does this. Why because Bupe is a partial agonist with an extremely high binding affinity. It basically boots the other opiates with less binding affinity off your receptors and you go into withdrawal until the Bupe has attached to the receptor and started to activate it.

Lastly, precipitated withdrawal is not caused by taking your DOC after taking Subs. It is caused by taking Subs too soon after taking your DOC.