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Beefmang
02-18-2009, 11:15 PM
Today while I was in a rite-aid buying some Tagamet and being amazed at just how many over the counter medications exist at a modern pharmacy/store, I became curious as to what is the strongest legal otc stimulant out there? Is it simply caffeine nowadays? Because it was my understanding that ephedrine is now illegal to buy without a prescription...so that doesnt leave very much. I'm not really one for stimulants, as I've always taken more of a liking toward opiates and other downers, but just wondering what the "strongest" stimulant available is.

This also got me wondering what the strongest stimulant in existence is? Is it methamphetamine or some analogue of amphetamine? Is there a sort of "super-cocaine", if you will? It seems to me like stimulants dont get as much attention in the labs as opiates do being that opiates serve a much more common, complex problem.
So...just curious what some of the more educated people in this area might know about the major leagues of stimulants.

Opiyum
02-18-2009, 11:35 PM
I think Dexadrine is the top one or Desoxyn...one of those two. At least they are the strongest that can be prescribed. Only used for extreme obesity and narcolepsy I think.
Could be wrong though.

Hoss
02-19-2009, 12:13 AM
I think Dexadrine is the top one or Desoxyn...one of those two. At least they are the strongest that can be prescribed. Only used for extreme obesity I think.
Could be wrong though.

^ Dexedrine kicks ass - at least when I used to get it over 10 years ago, right around the same time pills containing Ephedrine were still legal to sell here in CA such as the real old school 'Mini-Thins'; take 4 or 5 of those with a soda and HEYO!

As far as your questions concerning the strengths and stature of advanced stimulants, I'm sure a few of the more chemically intelligent folks here may be able to assist you beyond my simple tales of debauchery.

Narkotikon
02-19-2009, 12:32 AM
I'd say Desoxyn (prescription methamphetamine) is probably the strongest pharmaceutical stimulant, at least in the US. I don't know much about Dexedrine, other than it's an amphetamine or amphetamine-like drug. But, I'd say the amphetamines are going to be stronger than coke.

Cocaine is actually a Schedule-II drug. It does have a few legit uses. I know it's a preferred local anesthetic in eye surgery and things where you want good vascular constriction, which means less bleeding. My youngest sister is a nurse, and when she was just starting out, she worked at the University of Kentucky's hospital. This was back in the mid 90's, but anyway she said one of the doctors there liked to rub liquid cocaine on people's nostrils when they had to have tubes or whatever put up there for scopes or whatever reason they put tubes up people's noses for. She said he was German, so maybe it's more common to do that in Europe than here, because she said that's the only time she had ever heard of a doctor doing that.

As far as OTC stimulants, I know one of the active ingredients in a Vic's Inhaler is L-Methamphetamine (levo-methamphetamine), but they spell it "metamfetamine." I'm assuming it's for aesthetic reasons because the manufacturers know that people know what crystal meth is now, but aren't quite smart enough to assume that just because the "h" is missing and the "ph" is changed to an "f" that it's the same damned drug (although I'm pretty sure crystal meth is the dextro isomer and not the levo). But, yeah, that won't get you high though. The "L / levo" version has little CNS activity.

Then Benzedrex inhalers actually contain an active stimulant (propylhexidrine or something like that, not sure of the spelling), that apparently you can get high on. I've never done it though. You apparently take the cottons out and soak them in a glass of water / soda / juice, and then drink the liquid, or you can just eat the cotton. I looked at one once when I was in the pharmacy. I think it also contains lavender oil, kind of like how the Vics contains menthol oil. I can't imagine that would taste very good. Might make you nauseated and vomit I would think. But, apparently, from what I've read on here, it will get you speedy and high.

Opiyum
02-19-2009, 12:42 AM
Don't they use benzocaine for stuff like that like at the dentist and such?
Now that I think of it is benzocaine the same as cocaine? I heard that somewhere because they sell some product in the pharmacy I go to that is an oil that has benzocaine in it for bee stings or something like that.

A scanner darkly..I think that's where I'm getting this from and from the bee sting stuff I saw in the pharmacy.
Anyway...so yeah is benozcaine cocaine?

digby
02-19-2009, 12:52 AM
Of the current legal stimulants being prescribed today, desoxyn would be the strongest followed by dexedrine which is about 30% weaker. Adderall would be next and weaker than dex, but has more "speedy" side effects so feels equal or stronger than dex to some individuals.

Narkotikon
02-19-2009, 01:05 AM
Don't they use benzocaine for stuff like that like at the dentist and such?
Now that I think of it is benzocaine the same as cocaine? I heard that somewhere because they sell some product in the pharmacy I go to that is an oil that has benzocaine in it for bee stings or something like that.

A scanner darkly..I think that's where I'm getting this from and from the bee sting stuff I saw in the pharmacy.
Anyway...so yeah is benozcaine cocaine?

Yeah, benzocaine, lidocaine, novacaine, and things like that are more commonly used. I know that cocaine can be used, but I doubt it frequently is. Which is why my sister thought it was odd to see a doctor do that. I'd say the pharmaceutical cocaine industry is very very small.

As for if benzocaine is cocaine, I have no idea. I think that a lot of the local anesthetics are similar to cocaine and maybe even structurally similar. But I don't know if it's just coke under a different name if that's what you mean. I mean, I think the numbing effect from novacaine at a dentist's office feels very similar to how cocaine numbs your gums.

Seedy
02-19-2009, 01:05 AM
^ Dexedrine kicks ass - at least when I used to get it over 10 years ago...

Yeah dexedrine does kick ass, definitely my favorite amphetamine!

Opiyum
02-19-2009, 01:09 AM
Yeah, benzocaine, lidocaine, novacaine, and things like that are more commonly used. I know that cocaine can be used, but I doubt it frequently is. Which is why my sister thought it was odd to see a doctor do that. I'd say the pharmaceutical cocaine industry is very very small.

As for if benzocaine is cocaine, I have no idea. I think that a lot of the local anesthetics are similar to cocaine and maybe even structurally similar. But I don't know if it's just coke under a different name if that's what you mean. I mean, I think the numbing effect from novacaine at a dentist's office feels very similar to how cocaine numbs your gums.

Yeah that's what I was getting at. I thought they just gave it a different name due to the stigma.

Narkotikon
02-19-2009, 01:12 AM
What does Dexedrine feel like in comparison to crystal meth or Adderall? Do they still prescribe it for weight loss, or any stimulant for that matter? I know Phen-Fen was a combination of two stimulants used for weight loss, but was taken off the market because it caused major heart damage. Well, actually, I think you can still get phentermine (the Phen) part, but the other one, the "fen" part, was taken off the market. I'm not even sure what the "fen" drug was, other than it was a stimulant.

Edit: I looked up Benzocaine on Wikipedia. From what I can tell, it's not cocaine under a different name. Would be interesting if they did that though. I wonder what the brand name for pharm cocaine is. I wouldn't think they'd just call it cocaine, because of the stigma and such.

Opiyum
02-19-2009, 01:20 AM
When I was doing meth in ohio for the few months that I did I was doing it all with a dude I met who was also cooking it and I got it from him for free by helping him with transportation and selling and making and getting ingrediants and what not. Anyhow he was a very experienced speed freak and he spoke of trying every thing from the actual Mau wong (sp?) plant and extracts there of and he said that dexedrine was just a really clean speedy effect.
Paraphrasing he has said its like adderal is to coke as dexedrine is to crystal meth.
Me I have no idea. Never tried the stuff and have never seen it. Just smoked and snorted and took one or two shots of crystal and thats about as far as my experience with speed goes other than a little adderal in my teens and cocaine of course all throughout my drug career.
I'd be really interested in trying dexedrine. Especially in a speedball I just wonder if it would be more intense than IV cocaine because I know that when I fired up some of that crystall that the dude made (which was top quality crystal, I knew from his customers and from a fer times we had to cop because we ran out before making another batch and it was no where near the power of what he made) it wasn't near as intense as shooting coke.
So far as I can tell nothing in this worls is as intense as that.
And yes I do believe they still prescribe it for severe cases of narcolepsy and obesity.

Narkotikon
02-19-2009, 01:31 AM
That's interesting. I've never shot coke (or meth) just snorted coke and smoked rock, and then smoked crystal three times, and have taken Adderall orally three times I think. I tend to agree that coke is a lot better. I just don't like the amphetamines as much. I've never shot coke, though, so I can't speak for that, but smoking it was VERY intense. I think I'd be too afraid of dropping dead from a heart attack if I shot coke or any stimulant. Especially since my dad died of a heart attack and high blood pressure runs in my family. I can definitely see myself mumbling the words "mother fucker" after I pushed down on the plunger, while I'm clutching my heart.

I'd love to have a script of a stimulant for minor weight loss. Like, after the Holidays, getting a yearly script of Dexedrine or Phentermine or Adderall or whatever for weight loss. I know it was common to get that in the 60's / 70's. I wonder how often it's done now.

Seedy
02-19-2009, 01:32 AM
What does Dexedrine feel like in comparison to crystal meth or Adderall? Do they still prescribe it for weight loss, or any stimulant for that matter? I know Phen-Fen was a combination of two stimulants used for weight loss, but was taken off the market because it caused major heart damage. Well, actually, I think you can still get phentermine (the Phen) part, but the other one, the "fen" part, was taken off the market. I'm not even sure what the "fen" drug was, other than it was a stimulant...

To me dexedrine felt much cleaner than meth (and I know I was getting good quality stuff). A bit more subtle too and it didn't have that instant addiction factor that meth has - especially smoked. The comedown of dex seemed much smoother too and was easier to sleep off. Like dex has all the euphoria as meth without the rush and insidious need to keep taking more! Very nice mixed with opiates too.

I've tried phentermine too which I quite enjoyed but nowhere near in the same league as dexedrine.

Opiyum
02-19-2009, 01:36 AM
To me dexedrine felt much cleaner than meth (and I know I was getting good quality stuff). A bit more subtle too and it didn't have that instant addiction factor that meth has - especially smoked. The comedown of dex seemed much smoother too and was easier to sleep off. Like dex has all the euphoria as meth without the rush and insidious need to keep taking more! Very nice mixed with opiates too.

I've tried phentermine too which I quite enjoyed but nowhere near in the same league as dexedrine.

If you don't mind answering I'm curious as to how you got ahold of dexerine and phentermine? Perfectly cool if you don't want to say. I understand.

Narkotikon
02-19-2009, 01:36 AM
To me dexedrine felt much cleaner than meth (and I know I was getting good quality stuff). A bit more subtle too and it didn't have that instant addiction factor that meth has - especially smoked. The comedown of dex seemed much smoother too and was easier to sleep off. Like dex has all the euphoria as meth without the rush and insidious need to keep taking more! Very nice mixed with opiates too.

I've tried phentermine too which I quite enjoyed but nowhere near in the same league as dexedrine.

Thanks for that. Did dexedrine cause you to be anxious? My limited experience with Adderall and Crystal weren't that great because each time I'd get very very anxious and paranoid even. Like looking out the windows, thinking that the cops "knew" somehow what I was doing, etc. Plus, I was just all jittery. Like I had drank a couple pots of coffee. Just shaking like crazy. I wonder if Dexadrine would be as bad. Anyway, thanks for the comparison.

Seedy
02-19-2009, 01:55 AM
Opi- the dexedrine was bought from an acquaintance, I didn't ask where it was from but at the time err... people were faking anxiety symptoms to get benzos and were prescribed 2.5mg lorazepam straight off so maybe people went to the same quacker with narcloepsy...

And I'm not shitting you I found a bottle of 30 or so phentermine 25mg extended release in a garden. That was a fun christmas and new year! I've also been given some by a (very hot) friend who was possibly prescribed them to lose weight. I didn't ask out of courtesy (wanted to score) :)

Narco- I think any stims will make you anxious to some extent, just the way it works, stims fire you up, speed up the metabolism and are inclined to make you anxious. Downers chill you out, slow your metabolism and ease anxiety. But you can find a good equilibrium thats for sure! Remember it only takes a small amount of your benzo of choice to take the edge off. Or opiates do a pretty good job and the combined euphiria of the two is pretty swell. Out of all the stims I've tried dex seemed the least edgy.

losangeleslifer
02-19-2009, 02:15 AM
I dont think that otc inhalers have the ingredient they had in them 20 or so years ago. It was Benzedrine. They don't use it in inhalers anymore since it was so widely abused.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2f/Benzedrine_inhaler_for_wiki_article.jpg/150px-Benzedrine_inhaler_for_wiki_article.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Benzedrine_inhaler_for_wiki_article.jpg)


As far as phentermine goes, its still prescribed for weight loss. It used to be prescribed in conjunction with Fenfluramine, *Phen Fen*, but Fenfluramine was discontinued due to heart valve damage. I used both years ago with great success.

Narkotikon
02-19-2009, 03:41 AM
I dont think that otc inhalers have the ingredient they had in them 20 or so years ago. It was Benzedrine. They don't use it in inhalers anymore since it was so widely abused.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2f/Benzedrine_inhaler_for_wiki_article.jpg/150px-Benzedrine_inhaler_for_wiki_article.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Benzedrine_inhaler_for_wiki_article.jpg)


As far as phentermine goes, its still prescribed for weight loss. It used to be prescribed in conjunction with Fenfluramine, *Phen Fen*, but Fenfluramine was discontinued due to heart valve damage. I used both years ago with great success.

No, it's not Benzedrine anymore. The Benzedrex (brand name) inhalers contain something called propylhexedrine now. It's a CNS active stimulant that can apparently get people high / be abused. Although it's probably not as good as what the original Benzedrine inhalers were.

roxi*stardust
02-19-2009, 08:10 AM
Dexedrine and Dextrostat, both Dextroamphetamine, are COMMONLY RXd for ADHD and ADD in children. When I worked in an institutional pharmacy we serviced several children's facilities and both drugs were more often prescribed than Desoxyn (methamphetamine), which is the most potent prescription amphetamine and also the hardest to get a doctor to script.

Benzocaine is not the same thing as cocaine.

firefeind
02-19-2009, 11:01 AM
ever heard of arecoline? its an extract from betel nut, commonly chewed in asia. its very potent, a regular size key bump is too much for most people w/out a tolerance. it can be sniffed or taken orally. it brings on an intense body rush. side effects: nausea esp at higher doses; extreme sweating. wears off completely in about an hour. legal up here, not sure about america. over all, id say its worth looking into, and if available, investing in.

halfalien_s4
02-19-2009, 11:13 AM
Today while I was in a rite-aid buying some Tagamet and being amazed at just how many over the counter medications exist at a modern pharmacy/store, I became curious as to what is the strongest legal otc stimulant out there? Is it simply caffeine nowadays? Because it was my understanding that ephedrine is now illegal to buy without a prescription...so that doesnt leave very much. I'm not really one for stimulants, as I've always taken more of a liking toward opiates and other downers, but just wondering what the "strongest" stimulant available is.

This also got me wondering what the strongest stimulant in existence is? Is it methamphetamine or some analogue of amphetamine? Is there a sort of "super-cocaine", if you will? It seems to me like stimulants dont get as much attention in the labs as opiates do being that opiates serve a much more common, complex problem.
So...just curious what some of the more educated people in this area might know about the major leagues of stimulants.


well, since ive been tried on & medicated w/ every type of anphetamine in the past for severe ADHD that i have, ive gotta say Adderall was the definant strongest. It actually contains both Dextroanphetamine & just plain ol' Anphetamine both togather in one pill. so i vote that being the strongets for me....

roxi*stardust
02-19-2009, 12:10 PM
well, since ive been tried on & medicated w/ every type of anphetamine in the past for severe ADHD that i have, ive gotta say Adderall was the definant strongest. It actually contains both Dextroanphetamine & just plain ol' Anphetamine both togather in one pill. so i vote that being the strongets for me....

I like Adderall to, I would most definitely agree that it's more potent that Dexedrine & Dextrostat (Dextroamphetamine). I haven't had the pleasure of trying Desoxyn myself so I can't comment of it's potency other than going by the pharmacology. I really liked Adderall, my SO used to take it for his ADD.

Hammilton
03-01-2009, 03:48 PM
Anyone who's on a 2.5-5mg dose of selegiline (Available online from the anti-aging set, they think it helps them live longer) should give a 25-100mg shot of beta-Phenethylamine a shot. It's way more intense than amphetamine, which isn't a big surprise. It's just too short acting, though. 30 minutes is about it- but it's a hell of a rush, even orally.

Dimethocaine is now available online, and IIRC, the para-desamino analogue will be available soon. That should be much, much better.

Not to mention para-fluoro-tropacocaine which is available online now, very potent. Then MDPV, diphenyl prolinol, both at least as potent as meth IIRC.

The latter two aren't very euphoric though, imho. I hear smoked MDPV is a hugh rush though. Smoked PEA is likely even stronger, but is probably goign to be on par with crack in terms of euphoria.

Papa Verine
03-01-2009, 08:36 PM
ever heard of arecoline? its an extract from betel nut, commonly chewed in asia. its very potent, a regular size key bump is too much for most people w/out a tolerance. it can be sniffed or taken orally. it brings on an intense body rush. side effects: nausea esp at higher doses; extreme sweating. wears off completely in about an hour. legal up here, not sure about america. over all, id say its worth looking into, and if available, investing in.

I'm not sure what the legal status of Betel Nut is, but we certainly do have Pan Masala (Betel nut, lime, flavorings/spices) here. They're sold in little colorful pouches you cheek and spit for a small buzz. I thought Betel nut felt more like nicotine then cocaine. If I chewed too much I'd feel light-headed, dizzy and nauseous.

tch2296
03-01-2009, 10:10 PM
The strongest over-the-count stimulant would have to propylhexadrine, found in Benzedrex inhalers. You can remove the cotton on the inside and swallow it with a drink. It feels like a really shitty amphetamine. Some dumbasses tried to extract the propylhexadrine and then try to inject the extract, resulting in a painful death. Apparently it causes a horrible reaction. One guy's next swelled up to the size of a watermelon before he bit the dust. I would not recommend propylhexadrine, especially not injecting it.

In my opinion, the strongest stimulant in terms of intensity of high and duration would be methamphetamine. It feels distinct from cocaine; it is more adrenaline-based, some people think it is less euphoric than cocaine, but I have found that meth is more euphoric than even a shot of cocaine. I have always thought amphetamines in general are more pleasant than coke, I prefer the feeling, and I hate how coke wears off so quickly. Amphetamines also provide me with a more "useful" high - I actually want to get things done and I love fucking doing it. Meth tends to be a little less "useful" and more just intensely energizing, to the point where I just want to party, talk, and fuck for 8 hours.

Cocaine, injected especially, might provide a more powerful rush, though, sometimes to the point where it is so intense it overwhelms me (only when injected), sometimes to the point where I have to throw up and my head feels like it is going to explode while it's in the toiled as I vomit explosively. I think snorted cocaine is great for a party or especially with alcohol; meth tends to overpower alcohol to the point where I can't get drunk, no matter how much I drink.

I also think the comedown from amphetamines is MUCH worse than cocaine, especially since it is drawn out over 12-24 hours depending on how long I've been tweaking. The coke comedown is over within a couple of hours, at which point I fall asleep. It is especially painless if I pop a couple valiums or xanax. The meth comedown makes me want to lie in bed all day, even though I can't sleep for at least 16 hours, I have no energy or motivation to do anything except try to find benzos or opiates to ease the crash.

Oh yeah, I have used Betel Nuts many times, which contain arecoline, and found them no more stimulating than caffeine or nicotine.

borohydride
03-14-2011, 09:40 AM
I checked into the biosteric volume of desamino dimethocaine and it was very, very similar to cocaine indeed (0.7 between aromatic & basic amine). Being flexible, knowing the energy difference between conformational isomers becomes important, well, in this case it's 4.7kJ/mole which is good enough.
It seems like the people who designed dimethocaine were trying to copy cocaine right from the start. The p-amino is bad for several reasons:

1-Reduces LogP (reduces affinity for fat - the brain in this case)
2-Increases local anesthetic effect (increases danger from arrhythmia)
3-Increases pKa (increases onset time & potency)

It turns out that the diethyl is the best for activity but it means that there will be more N-oxide formed (presumably) which means there is potentially more hapatotoxicity from this drug. It will be just as bad for chronic cardiotoxicity (Na & K channel mediated).

The potent fused-tropane analogs will have vastly reduced hapatotoxicity (since there is less material being used) & the p-Me would be about the best choice because hydroxylation gives the body another way to metabolise the compound, bringing down the duration so it's nearer to cocaine itself.

So, the only issue with this compound (and all the drugs that work on the DAT substrates to produce stimulation/euphoria) is chronic cardiotoxicity. In reality, cocaine is a really bad drug. I know heroin is the biggest killer but cocaine is a surprisingly close second. I would much prefer a fencamfamine analog because it's at least as euphoric, lasts longer & has an amazingly high TI.

FYI the dimethyl side-chain is there to replace the methyl ester. In cocaine, this change produces a highly active analogue. A single propyl side-chain is actually the most potent & I would imagine that the 2-monopropyl para-methyl analog of dimethocaine would be at least 1 & maybe even 2 orders of magnitude stronger than cocaine. I would tend to stick with the desamino or p-Me desamino because such a strong drug would lead to many overdoses & deaths.

kdog
03-14-2011, 09:57 AM
Cocaine is actually a Schedule-II drug. It does have a few legit uses. I know it's a preferred local anesthetic in eye surgery and things where you want good vascular constriction, which means less bleeding. My youngest sister is a nurse, and when she was just starting out, she worked at the University of Kentucky's hospital. This was back in the mid 90's, but anyway she said one of the doctors there liked to rub liquid cocaine on people's nostrils when they had to have tubes or whatever put up there for scopes or whatever reason they put tubes up people's noses for. She said he was German, so maybe it's more common to do that in Europe than here, because she said that's the only time she had ever heard of a doctor doing that.

In the summer of 95 I was traveling through Ohio when I got the WORST nose bleed of my life, I mean, it just wouldn't stop. Ended up going to the ER and the doctor put liquid cocaine in my nose before putting this tampon-like thing in there to stop the bleeding. He said "I hope this is the first and last time you ever use cocaine." This was when I was 15, so I guess I just threw that advice out the window some years later, lol.

borohydride
03-14-2011, 10:46 AM
I can certainly see how one could make a very strong analogue - there are some analogues that appear 2 orders of magnitude stronger than cocaine itself; some with a duration measured in days. The trick is to keep the SERT activity at the right ratio to DAT activity. Without SERT it will feel much more stimulating but be far less euphoric. SERT activity reduces the subjective 'speedy' effects which is why I assume cocaine is considered to be so valuable.

The p-iodo analogues would appear to be the best in this activity but getting the precursor could be a challange. p-iodo benzamide isn't something that you see commercially, it's made to order AFAIK. When all said & done, potency doesn't equate to euphoric potential. Heroin appears to be much more euphoric than fentanyl, for example.

panda
03-20-2011, 06:35 AM
a few years ago when i was doing my "ER rounds", when i had no money. at the time i visited all the different ER's in the area recently(thats a lot!) so i had to resort to a different ER that i never used before and really didn't want to use it because it is where they take you when you get 302'd and i had bad experiences with that even though the doctors were cool and let me out because they realized it was all BS. but anyway, i used my old ER hustle about a bad tooth and jaw problem(wasn't really fake it just didn't hurt as much as i said). anyway it was a full proof plan, as soon as the ER doc looked at the tooth going sideways into another tooth bulging out under the gums and how "my dentist couldn't fit me in for 3 days and if the pain got bad go to the ER" it was a done deal, a script of pain pills and i am out, nothing else they could do.

well at this hospital i had some hot ass younger girl doctor, i want to say she was German but i can not be sure. she gave me the script for oxyIR 5's(magically turn to 15's) because my tummy can't take apap. but.....

she rubbed this thing all over my gums and it numbed my mouth like nothing else. i have had countless novacaine shots, dental blocks, etc.. this was no injection just a rub! it did relieve the little pain i did have, i then asked her what it was and she said "its basically medical cocaine". i was thinking fuck, i leave the room when people smoke rock in fear of getting contact high lol. i could only imagine how my panic disorder would be with cocaine.

i didn't feel any different, just had a numb ass mouth. wonder if i got some Cocaine off the street and rubbed it on my mouth if it would have the same effect, that i wouldn't get high but it would numb my pain better then benzocaine? the benzocaine just aint cutting it anymore, i think i built a huge tolerance to the shit. i wish i could get a script for novacaine and just shoot my mouth up with it every night lol.

SHELLEY
03-20-2011, 07:06 AM
didn't read the thread
but this fuckin' desoxyn i'm about to do a line of is some of the speediest shit i've ever had
in some ways it tops street shards

The Ryan
03-20-2011, 01:19 PM
a few years ago when i was doing my "ER rounds", when i had no money. at the time i visited all the different ER's in the area recently(thats a lot!) so i had to resort to a different ER that i never used before and really didn't want to use it because it is where they take you when you get 302'd and i had bad experiences with that even though the doctors were cool and let me out because they realized it was all BS. but anyway, i used my old ER hustle about a bad tooth and jaw problem(wasn't really fake it just didn't hurt as much as i said). anyway it was a full proof plan, as soon as the ER doc looked at the tooth going sideways into another tooth bulging out under the gums and how "my dentist couldn't fit me in for 3 days and if the pain got bad go to the ER" it was a done deal, a script of pain pills and i am out, nothing else they could do.

well at this hospital i had some hot ass younger girl doctor, i want to say she was German but i can not be sure. she gave me the script for oxyIR 5's(magically turn to 15's) because my tummy can't take apap. but.....

she rubbed this thing all over my gums and it numbed my mouth like nothing else. i have had countless novacaine shots, dental blocks, etc.. this was no injection just a rub! it did relieve the little pain i did have, i then asked her what it was and she said "its basically medical cocaine". i was thinking fuck, i leave the room when people smoke rock in fear of getting contact high lol. i could only imagine how my panic disorder would be with cocaine.

i didn't feel any different, just had a numb ass mouth. wonder if i got some Cocaine off the street and rubbed it on my mouth if it would have the same effect, that i wouldn't get high but it would numb my pain better then benzocaine? the benzocaine just aint cutting it anymore, i think i built a huge tolerance to the shit. i wish i could get a script for novacaine and just shoot my mouth up with it every night lol.

coke will def numb your entire mouth with only a small bump, you could make a gram last forever using it for numbing purpose only. id assume 10mg would be enough to numb your entire mouth, ive had cottons leftover from shots numb my entire mouth so...yea, cocaine has great numbing effects.

edit: also you should not get high or notice any effects from rubbing a little on your gums/mouth, cocaine is not very active orally and you would be using such small amounts you wouldnt get high.

Cognitive_Shift
03-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Propylhexerine is the strongest stim you can get OTC. It has SOOOO much euphoria, but also a lot of tweaky side effects.

jmorri2nd
06-16-2011, 05:48 AM
Desoxyn

duck
06-16-2011, 09:37 AM
i would pay anything to have a stimulant with the legs of methamp and the euphoria of cocaine.

There is just something so special about the euphoria from cocaine. There really is nothin else like it. MDMA also feels great but its not the same aa coke. God, coke just has that pure euphoria that is so god like.

Fuck, I love great cocaine.

Nagelfar
08-06-2011, 07:13 PM
i would pay anything to have a stimulant with the legs of methamp and the euphoria of cocaine.

There is just something so special about the euphoria from cocaine. There really is nothin else like it. MDMA also feels great but its not the same aa coke. God, coke just has that pure euphoria that is so god like.

Fuck, I love great cocaine.

Agreed. Benzoyl substitutions of cocaine that aren't phenyl (because phenyl's make it less water soluble), or covalent binding benzoyl-tropanes, would succeed at this.

Not currently on the market, but anyone have experience with Preludin? My aunt used to do it but wouldn't talk about it because of cravings, also being a recovered methamphetamine user. They still have Phendimetrazine on the market, I wonder how much of a process it would be to de-methylate it to Phenmetrazine?

Dutch
08-06-2011, 08:33 PM
I've always wanted to try 4-Methylaminorex (better known as 4-MAR). Supposed to be a cross between MDMA and Methamphetamine in effects. Users report strong mental stimulation and desire to explore and share ideas with others. Sweaty palms, pleasurable body sensitivity, increased ability to focus on projects or tasks, and empathy. Lasts from 6-10 hours or longer depending on dose and frequency of administration. Looks just like Crystal Meth and can be smoked just the same way. I've heard it's like the desert wine of stimulants.

INhead
08-07-2011, 02:53 AM
Desoxyn. Nothin that a dr will give on regular basis. Ask I've read her post and she seem too have it quite often.


Done know if it scripted too her just good hook up. But it so clean and mind blowing in strength.

IN

--- auto merge ---

Desoxyn. Nothin that a dr will give on regular basis. Ask SHELLEY I've read her post and she seem too have it quite often.


Don't know if it scripted too her just good hook up. But it so clean and mind blowing in strength. It only speed I'll do beside Mexican shards.

IN

borohydride
08-07-2011, 12:10 PM
There are cocaine analogues active @ the sub-milligram level - they must be the strongest overall. If your thinking of phenethylamines then plain aminorex actually packs one heck of a punch. 4-MAR is a bit nicer (has some serotonin activity) but MAR is x5 more potent...

Zoops
07-15-2014, 12:26 AM
Damn wanted to bump this old thread.


Wrote out a long winded post, hit the wrong button, then whammo! Gone into the ether, headed to Alpha Centari, maybe.


I was describing my brief experience second year of second college degree schooling ,when I acquired a full 50-count bottle of desoxyn 5mg tablets (d-methamphetamine).


Lasted me (and one buddy who I kicked down a few to), about two weeks+. Yeah I know 250mg of d-meth lasting 2 weeks is ridiculous (Chipper would just get the taste with a quarter gram even pharmaceutical shit). One time took six tabs (30mg) and puked like a champ. Felt just like taking a huge hit of rock when it kicked in, basically all at once, which was weird with orally administered drugs. I mean having an orally administered drug kick in real fast all at once like you shot it - but with like a 20 minute delay from when you swallow it (one of the two times I took real E this also happened).


Oh and Dexedrine is fucking great too. 30mg and I'd be flying to the moon. Gotta have some temazzies, xannies, vals, or atties, or even some Ambien (doesn't keep you asleep though - only like for an hour if you're comin down off speed and you take it) in your toolkit if you gone be fuckin with uppers though. One and a half somas help to "activate" the benzos if you need some good sleep comin down off speed. A good night's rest and the next morning you'll be able to do it again.

You can keep up the cycle of speed in the morning, heavy depressants at night to go to sleep for about a month before you start to go completely batshit. Not eating, sweating like crazy all the time, hands a little shaky. My vision at night was so blurry from my pupils being so blown on Ritalin when I was using that IV real heavy.


Anybody ever fuck with dimethocaine? RC stripped-down cocaine analog, half the potency as stimulant (DNRI), unscheduled. topical anesthetic.

Narkotikon
07-15-2014, 12:31 AM
I once had a stupid drug counselor say that taking benzos and cocaine produced benzocaine (the local anesthetic). I think she got confused with the whole "taking alcohol and cocaine produces a stronger pro-drug called cocaethylene" thing, but still, pretty stupid on her part. I had to laugh.

Random stim story.

Zoops
07-15-2014, 03:22 AM
Yeah and a similar reaction takes place when alcohol and (very) large amounts of Ritalin (methylphenidate *C-II) ethylphenidate is formed in this fashion.


And cocaethylene is not a pro-drug. It is a drug per se just like cocaine is.

Narkotikon
07-15-2014, 04:16 AM
I just meant that when you take cocaine and drink alcohol, it creates a third drug--cocaethylene. I knew about the cocaethylphenidate too, but have never experienced that.

It's odd, because Wikipedia classifies Heroin, Codeine, and 6-MAM as prodrugs. I think the term is widely used. I was simply using it to say that a third, unique drug is created upon the introduction of two separate drugs in vivo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodrug

LolRJ
07-15-2014, 07:45 AM
What RC would most closely resemble cocaine in terms of effect?

Chipper
07-15-2014, 07:57 AM
What RC would most closely resemble cocaine in terms of effect?

ethylphenidate, i reckon ... never tried it but it should be like a milder version of Ritalin and when Ritalin is injected by IV Cocaine users 'blindfolded', tests show that they cannot diffetrntiate it from Cocaine.

however, unlike Cocaine, short-term tolerance is bizarre and the drug's euphoria rapidly stops working on day 2 or 3 and you feel 'icky' instead.

good for kicks and adding to opiates occasionally.

Jega
07-15-2014, 10:09 AM
What RC would most closely resemble cocaine in terms of effect?

Another Tropane like any of the other RTI analogs.
Every once in a while i'll find one like this one that I've seen a couple times http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(-)-2%CE%B2-(3-(4-Methylphenyl)isoxazol-5-yl)-3%CE%B2-(4-chlorophenyl)tropane
They all tend to be stupid expensive, hard to produce in large quantities, all around just not great, and it's just easier and better to get coke.

alpha
07-15-2014, 11:49 AM
Gone into the ether, headed to Alpha Centari, maybe.


Nope, checked my Centauri and it isn't there. :)

duck
07-15-2014, 08:52 PM
..when Ritalin is injected by IV Cocaine users 'blindfolded', tests show that they cannot diffetrntiate it from Cocaine.

...

Ive heard this more times than I can count and it is absolute bullshit. Not callin you out specifically chip, but its just so untrue.

monkey business
07-15-2014, 09:00 PM
Ive heard this more times than I can count and it is absolute bullshit. Not callin you out specifically chip, but its just so untrue.

Yeah, I've injected both and could definitely tell the difference. Ain't no bell ringers with Ritalin!

RTotale
07-15-2014, 09:20 PM
Since the topic's been restarted a bit, and to LolRJ's new question, I have to say ethylphenidate isn't amazing, but definitely has some things going for it, at least IN and SL (since it's so harsh on the schnozz) - IV is a different story, also well-documented.

I got a lot out of the propylhexedrine inhalers. Dangerous to inject in terms of losing limbs, according some studies from back the 70s/80s when people first started abusing it. But apparently not too hard to extract into crystals for snorting/smoking. Some people have definitely gone wild ("they've gone wiiild!") for it. For me and my conservative stim tastes, soaking one cotton (250mg propylhex.) or two in lemon juice for a couple of hours, then choking down the godawful lavender-menthol shit (mixed with a cheapo energy drink worked OK), would give me a very decent buzz kicking in w/in a few minutes.

A fair amount of annoying peripheral nervous system side effects, but not enough to ruin it for me at that dose (took longer to get used to the menthol-lavender burps). I can't remember whether the comedown was better or worse than other stims. Haven't done it since it triggered a migraine a few years ago and I got paranoid that I was stroking out, but I'm permanently ruined for tolerating the smell of lavender, I think lol.

Chipper
07-15-2014, 11:02 PM
Yeah, I've injected both and could definitely tell the difference. Ain't no bell ringers with Ritalin!

the tests were conducted on much smaller doses - as is my experience too.

i guess you guys are harder core - big doses !

FreedomOrBust
07-16-2014, 06:29 AM
Since the topic's been restarted a bit, and to LolRJ's new question, I have to say ethylphenidate isn't amazing, but definitely has some things going for it, at least IN and SL (since it's so harsh on the schnozz) - IV is a different story, also well-documented.

I got a lot out of the propylhexedrine inhalers. Dangerous to inject in terms of losing limbs, according some studies from back the 70s/80s when people first started abusing it. But apparently not too hard to extract into crystals for snorting/smoking. Some people have definitely gone wild ("they've gone wiiild!") for it. For me and my conservative stim tastes, soaking one cotton (250mg propylhex.) or two in lemon juice for a couple of hours, then choking down the godawful lavender-menthol shit (mixed with a cheapo energy drink worked OK), would give me a very decent buzz kicking in w/in a few minutes.

A fair amount of annoying peripheral nervous system side effects, but not enough to ruin it for me at that dose (took longer to get used to the menthol-lavender burps). I can't remember whether the comedown was better or worse than other stims. Haven't done it since it triggered a migraine a few years ago and I got paranoid that I was stroking out, but I'm permanently ruined for tolerating the smell of lavender, I think lol.

The come-down from polyhexedrine is horrific. You really need a good dose of opiates late in the day to smooth out after doing 250mg.

The first time I took polyhex, I had the best stim high ever - euphoria, tingling skin, and boundless energy. I remember doing an 8 mile run that day - which, looking back, was probably dangerous, since my BP would shoot up when I used it.

The second and third times were similar, but noticeably weaker. After using it a half dozen or so times, no euphoria, still plenty of energy. Polyhex must fry your stim receptors something fierce.

My preference would be an amphetamine salt mixed with poppy tea, the best of both worlds and no come-down to worry about. This combo - the best I've ever felt.

Narkotikon
07-16-2014, 09:05 PM
^^^^^^^

How many days / weeks did you wait in between the Polyhex doses? I mean, did you do the second dose a few days after the first dose? I'm just wondering if maybe you saw diminished returns / less of a high because you dosed too soon after the first dose.

I've never taken Polyhex, but I know what you all are talking about. I might have to give it a try.

I would take Ritalin / Concerta / Focalin (especially Focalin b/c it's only the d-isomer), but I prefer coke.

If I had to take any ADD pharm at all, I'd prefer to take Adderall. I loved Adderall. Lots of euphoria and energy. When I was in my early 20's I seriously considered going to a psych and faking ADD so I could get stims. Given my record, I doubt it would have been hard. I also like them for appetite control. Anything that has anorexia as a side effect is OK IMO.

I'd love to try Desoxyn, but I doubt that will ever happen.

FreedomOrBust
07-16-2014, 09:43 PM
^^^^^^^

How many days / weeks did you wait in between the Polyhex doses? I mean, did you do the second dose a few days after the first dose? I'm just wondering if maybe you saw diminished returns / less of a high because you dosed too soon after the first dose.

I've never taken Polyhex, but I know what you all are talking about. I might have to give it a try.

I would take Ritalin / Concerta / Focalin (especially Focalin b/c it's only the d-isomer), but I prefer coke.

If I had to take any ADD pharm at all, I'd prefer to take Adderall. I loved Adderall. Lots of euphoria and energy. When I was in my early 20's I seriously considered going to a psych and faking ADD so I could get stims. Given my record, I doubt it would have been hard. I also like them for appetite control. Anything that has anorexia as a side effect is OK IMO.

I'd love to try Desoxyn, but I doubt that will ever happen.

^ The really odd thing about polyhex is that I used it infrequently, never more than once in two weeks. That scared me off the stuff, to be honest - if occasional use could cause that sort of tolerance reaction, it may be the sort of drug that causes permanent destruction to receptors. Amphetamines do have a steep tolerance curve, but nothing like this.

It is still around occasionally in the drug stores - it seems to be carried seasonally where I am. I've lost any desire for it, due to the awful taste and lack of effect. But, if you want to have one or two good stim blowouts, this is it.

I'd still like to go back to amphetamines, I really fell in love with those, and I found them incredible at work, I could go 12-14 hours and not even think about eating. No good sources at the moment for it, maybe just as well - I liked them too much.

chopstix
07-16-2014, 10:41 PM
It's "propylhexedrine" - not poly, just sayin'..

You can A/B that stuff and separate it from the menthol/lavender, apparently pretty easily. The M/L might be soluble in naphtha, not sure, it shouldn't be too hard to work out tho..

I've read good reports as well..

Hey Ron
07-17-2014, 07:51 AM
Yeah Propylhexedrine is a decent stimulant, especially since it is OTC. I've done the soak method once. My friend and I cut the cotton up into little pieces then soaked it in like 2 shots of Coca-Cola. We let it soak for 30 minutes then took the cotton out and split the Coke in 2 doses (one for him and one for me). It was a pretty clean and euphoric high and lasted about 5-6 hours. There was a little residual menthol/lavender taste though, especially when burping.

It was pretty good even though I usually don't like stimulants...

Zoops
07-18-2014, 02:46 AM
Give me 60mg IV methylphenidate over 100mg IV cocaine any day. Better euphoria, and slightly better legs, although it only lasts about 45 minutes, as opposed to 20 minutes.


Doesn't produce the bell-ringer effects that coke does though, I'll give you that.


And it's interesting that Wiki classifies 6-MAM as a prodrug, because the commonly accepted definition of a prodrug is a substance that when taken into the body has no pharmacological activity until it is acted upon by some metabolic process thus providing an active drug substance in vivo.


6-MAM, although it can be converted to morphine, is not a prodrug. it has an active metabolite, but it is not a prodrug, since it itself is highly active as an opioid agonist.


Codeine and heroin, yes, they have very little activity until acted upon by metabolic processes, but are generally considered to be prodrugs because the contribution to total activity from the parent drug is so minimal, as compared with the metabolite.

HeartOfDixie
08-09-2014, 12:18 AM
ethylphenidate, i reckon ... never tried it but it should be like a milder version of Ritalin and when Ritalin is injected by IV Cocaine users 'blindfolded', tests show that they cannot diffetrntiate it from Cocaine.

however, unlike Cocaine, short-term tolerance is bizarre and the drug's euphoria rapidly stops working on day 2 or 3 and you feel 'icky' instead.

good for kicks and adding to opiates occasionally.

My IR Methylphenidate 20mg script has a black box warning that must come with every fill that states this but slightly more technically

Chipper
08-09-2014, 04:30 AM
My IR Methylphenidate 20mg script has a black box warning that must come with every fill that states this but slightly more technically

so do you consider shooting it ?

no way could i stop myself ...

HeartOfDixie
08-09-2014, 02:08 PM
Never used the needle EVER, even though I know the substances I have access to would become much more fun. Prob why they end up mostly in the hands of IV users I know :rolleyes: