Finding injection sites

[rajah]

I'm a little surprised I didn't find more info on this subject here as it is a problem that all long time IV users face. After long abuse by the point, alot of us have problems with sites no matter what we do,ie hot baths, exercise, tie-off. Eventually all visible veins go bye-bye. This as you know gets extremely frusurating after you spend 2 hours searching and then miss because your so frustrated or sick. And IM just isn't always a valid choice because of works size or previous bad experiences with abcesses. Remember when you were a kid and used to put a flashlight in your palm and you could see inside the back of your hand!!!, well thats the idea. But it only works were veins are close to the skin, and you press the light, bulb down on the specific area. You will illuminate many veins that you didn't know existed. Some area to look at are upper thighs, inside of elbows, upper arms, back of legs and others. Definately depends on body fat content. You need to also be in a dark room close to the light switch so you can turn it on when you flash or register. You can also use a pen to mark the spot with a circle careful not to contaminate the site. Turn on light and then do that thing. I am not advocating this method to anyone nor am I saying that you should try it, but I know it has brought relief to many that thought they were at the end of their blue ropes. Also careful with the thighs as they tend to bruise easily as these veins are easily poked through. Desparate people do desparate things, but this is much safer and easier than trying to hit your neck by yourself. And always use proper site cleansing tecniques, always.


"Please keep hands and arms inside ride at all times"

[Scarlettnight]

Here is something I found on the subject I hope this helps. They seem to be against harm reduction if I am wrong plaese let me know. Anyway here it is http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/miscellaneous_drug_information/164903.html

[rajah]

Here is something I found on the subject I hope this helps. They seem to be against harm reduction if I am wrong plaese let me know. Anyway here it is http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/miscellaneous_drug_information/164903.html


Good job scarlettnight, I think that is the most informative info on this subject that I've seen on the web. The wrapping of cellophane around a limb to heat it up is interesting. I've always wondered exactly where the femoral vein was but was to scared to just poke around blind as it informs to do. I tell u once you hit a nerve the first time, you will cease to ever inject blind again.


"Please folks, Keep hands and arms inside ride at all times"

[candy]

Hey rajah,


As a nurse, the flashlight works great for illuminating veins. I used that method many times when I worked in the ER and Pediatrics.

There are a few reasons I don't suggest that method. Usually veins that are found this way tend to be deeper in the tissues and often harder to hit. With injection drug users, it is better to use veins that you can see and or feel.

While illuminating may make it easy to see those veins, hitting them is another matter and for someone who is alone, it can lead to a frustrating and painful process.

While at one time I did suggest to another board member on the use of neck veins, I did retract that statement and admit that my suggestion was not in the best interest of the members. As well I don't suggest using veins in the lower extremities as this leads to many problems.
Because circulation in the lower extremities is slower, using the legs and feet to inject can cause some serious problems and decrease the circulation even further. While I have myself and I am sure many others have used their feet or legs to inject, I don't recommend it.

Have you ever seen those who inject with swollen and discolored feet and legs? That is from injecting.

I have seen that site on totse.com. Using cellophane is done and it will help. Heat is a great way to bring veins to the surface and makes it easier to hit.

Hope that it explains why it wasn't posted before.

[shaunclo]

I have a heat fan in my room and turn it on about 20 minutes before I shoot. While I am cooking up, my body temp goes up and when Im ready to shoot, I am all fully exposed. The hardest time to shoot is in the morning when your cold.

But serioulsy invest 20-40 bucks into a heat fan and itll work wonders to help you find veins much much easier.

Or have some weights around and do like 15 reps before, this will bring your heart rate up and expose the veins easier too.

[rajah]

As a nurse, the flashlight works great for illuminating veins. I used that method many times when I worked in the ER and Pediatrics.



Awe I new someone must have known about this. this was done during the last 3 months of my addiction and always as a last resort. The last six months was with tar and it really took a toll on my veins. Literally when I found a new vein, it would literally just dissappear after 2 or 3 injections using all precautionary measures. Arms, hands, feet were not even an option then but thighs have many small surface veins very close to the skin that worked good but always left bruises. 2 to 3 hours and up to 5 or 6 syringes was normal at the end. It was so brutal, crying constantly wondering how I got like this. I finally, purposely gave myself cotton fever 4 times in a row to try and bring about negitive mental association with the needle. And have managed to stay clean for 2 months so far. I definately do think about getting high but honestly haven't seen a vein anywhere since and have no interest in other routes of administration. I honestly dont know how my blood is traveling. 6 nurses couldn't find one, jugular finally, to rehydrate me during WD's. Don't understand how my health can be normal after this abuse, I guess heroin is actually harmless to your body. I need to quit rambling so much anyway thanks Candy you are full of great information here. Indeed an asset to us all.

[Coddfish]

That one one the outside of the ankle bone, that one looks good. "hey! look at me! I want you to put that needle in me!" Don't do it. problems a-plenty. Actually never had a problem injecting. No belt, panty hose or nothin. Don't know why. One try and hit, for years.

[rajah]

That one one the outside of the ankle bone, that one looks good. "hey! look at me! I want you to put that needle in me!" Don't do it. problems a-plenty.

Thats funny shi% because when I first went to my feet that was the first one I saw and what a mistake it was, damned that hurts, what the hell type of vein or shi% is that, you know? I just never thought about it again. There is also a nerve by my wrist that always tried to make me think in was a vein, one day I hit it, my f^%king arm flew up in the air, rig hit the ceiling, spoon fell off my leg. Nope to dope it said. I obilged.

[poppy]

I honestly dont know how my blood is traveling. 6 nurses couldn't find one


Rajah,
I know exactly where you're coming from. This is a question I ask myself regularly!
I guess like me u r a fellow 'noveinophile' (a sort of sub species of 'opiophiles!!) You definitely speak my language!!!

I've never heard of this flashlight thing as a way of seeking out reluctant veins, but I will definitely be trying it out the next time I'm looking for a vein.
At the moment I'm actually doing ok just maintaining on my meth without using gear on top for the first time ever!!! Fingers crossed I can keep it up!?!

I had to have an operation a few years back (for zapping pre cancerous cells on my cervix) and the only vein they could find to administer the anaesthetic was a tiny vein in the top of my foot after an hours worth of poking prodding a(painful and definitely not a nice way to spend a day!! (Honest!!).

As I've said before I worry (a lot!) about the damage that I've done to my body in general but especially my veins as I often wonder (probably too often) about what would happen in an emergency situation if I needed pain relief or some other IV medication.

A while back when I first joined up Candy sort of reassured me that should such a need arise the docs/nurses would find a vein somehow, eg the neck thing.



I've always wondered exactly where the femoral vein was

It seems (to me at least!) that here in the uk, it is much more common for junkies to use the femoral (groin) vein than in the States. (I wonder why that is??) We even have a booklet at the drug clinic called 'dig' which gives people exact instructions on how to hit a vein anywhere but especially the groin vein.

Anyway,I should point out that firstly I have only ever had a hit in my femoral vein (ie. the big vein in your groin which we've been talking about) twice and each time someone else did it for me (I hate anyone else injecting me (even docs and nurses) so the very fact I let someone (with more experience) inject me speaks volumes. Does that make sense?
The whole idea scares me, especially as most people I know who inject in their groin seem to inevitably run into difficulties sooner or later. I think the most common effect of groin injection is deep vein thrombosis which seems to be almost inevitable (given long enough) at least in the group of iv junkies I know. Sorry if I've waffled too much and gone off the point.

[flipside]

That one one the outside of the ankle bone, that one looks good. "hey! look at me! I want you to put that needle in me!" Don't do it. problems a-plenty. Actually never had a problem injecting. No belt, panty hose or nothin. Don't know why. One try and hit, for years.

That very vein is the only one that I was able to consistantly get to pay off after I had ruined all my others. Wow, I am sooooo jealous, everytime I need an IV ( for medical reasons), they always call the anesthesiologist first who will try my feet, ankles leg, ect and inevitabley I end up with a central line. They don't even bother with a PIC line anymore and forget a peripheral one.I try to stay away from my feet, ankles etc, cause I already have a blood clotting problem and am on Heparin injections daily, but when ya got no where else to go, whatcha gonna do? At the end of my last long run, I ended up using my neck, even that gave up the ghost after a while., but left a nasty permanant track mark (it's been 4 years and it's still there so I assume it's not going away. But I've used the flashlight method frequently and it usually worked which is something pretty amazing for me, But Candy is righ on about the health risks associated with the different sites you can hit. But if your ill, nothing else mattered to me except getting well, the hell with the consequences and for me, eventually there always were some.

[flipside]

I have a heat fan in my room and turn it on about 20 minutes before I shoot. While I am cooking up, my body temp goes up and when Im ready to shoot, I am all fully exposed. The hardest time to shoot is in the morning when your cold.

But serioulsy invest 20-40 bucks into a heat fan and itll work wonders to help you find veins much much easier.

Or have some weights around and do like 15 reps before, this will bring your heart rate up and expose the veins easier too.

Dead on S. heat + doing some reps definately gets the heart pumpin and that circulation going brings veins to the surface I did not even know existed or thought they wee to scarred to rise to the occassion.. Thanks for the reminder

[flipside]

[I've never heard of this flashlight thing as a way of seeking out reluctant veins, but I will definitely be trying it out the next time I'm looking for a vein.
At the moment I'm actually doing ok just maintaining on my meth without using gear on top for the first time ever!!! Fingers crossed I can keep it up!?!

Hey Big Ups!! , I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you too


As I've said before I worry (a lot!) about the damage that I've done to my body in general but especially my veins as I often wonder (probably too often) about what would happen in an emergency situation if I needed pain relief or some other IV medication.

A while back when I first joined up Candy sort of reassured me that should such a need arise the docs/nurses would find a vein somehow, eg the neck thing.

Candy is right, there is always a way to get an IV into you, even if they have to use a PIC line which is done using a special kind of X-ray (I'll spare you the med terminology) where they can visualize the targeted vein and snake that bad boy right up your arm and into place, and if that fails or you need a site with more acess ports~say you needed to have three or four dif. IV bags running at once or needed seperate lines so no drug interactions just as an example, they can always resort to a cetral line where they snake the lines in through your neck ( not in the vein on the side of your neck but a little lower)or just below your collar bone and the lines go directly to the heart. And there is still the cutdown in an life or death emergency till they can get a stable IV in, so try not to worry.I know it's extremely frustrating not to mention painful to have your arms and hands poked (even though you know there's probably nothing there and it falls on deaf ears), then onto your feet. Hurts like hell and then your scared to death it will blow or you'll dislodge it. Don't worry girl where there's a will there's a way, not a new concept for any of us I would imagine. Again congrats on maintaining:)

[rajah]

[A while back when I first joined up Candy sort of reassured me that should such a need arise the docs/nurses would find a vein somehow, eg the neck thing.

Candy is right, there is always a way to get an IV into you, even if they have to use a PIC line which is done using a special kind of X-ray (I'll spare you the med terminology) where they can visualize the targeted vein and snake that bad boy right up your arm and into place, and if that fails or you need a site with more acess ports~say you needed to have three or four dif. IV bags running at once or needed seperate lines so no drug interactions just as an example, they can always resort to a cetral line where they snake the lines in through your neck ( not in the vein on the side of your neck but a little lower)or just below your collar bone and the lines go directly to the heart. And there is still the cutdown in an life or death emergency till they can get a stable IV in, so try not to worry.I know it's extremely frustrating not to mention painful to have your arms and hands poked (even though you know there's probably nothing there and it falls on deaf ears), then onto your feet. Hurts like hell and then your scared to death it will blow or you'll dislodge it. Don't worry girl where there's a will there's a way, not a new concept for any of us I would imagine. Again congrats on maintaining:)


That really pisses me off now, knowing that the whole time those nurses were screwing with me when they new there were alternatives to all the poking they did and giving me shit. It is a very small town here but still they must have known from training. All I needed were electrolytes and an anti-nausea drip.

And thats great Poppy, that I am in the sub-human group NOVEINOPHILE. Because I definately felt sub-human for a long time. One day I hope to rejoin the WHOLELOTOFVEINOPHILE group but its not looking good anytime soon. My saving grace is there are no street dealers here and being fairly new to the area don't know where to score. My stateside source is in S.F. and its a 3 hour drive oneway and I'm glad its not easily accessible like in previous places or there is no way I would have quit.


You definitely speak my language!!!

Its still very wierd for me to talk about all this as I've only been around one other shooter throughout my career and they weren't generally positive conversations about the subject. But I find myself being able to find a little humor in it knowing that there are others that understand and have been there done that. 7 years, 1 to 2 oz's a week, long sleeves, my shades (sunnies), no jail and noone ever knew or at least they didn't tell me. So this is huge for me to be able to open up about my addiction.

[Coddfish]

You hijacked your own thread, so.....zounds like you and I have some similar experiences. Most of my 'career' no one, cept one dealer who didn't know my name or nothin', knew. That's the way I like it. Evil second life.

[rajah]

You hijacked your own thread, so.....zounds like you and I have some similar experiences. Most of my 'career' no one, cept one dealer who didn't know my name or nothin', knew. That's the way I like it. Evil second life.

OH, Is that what that is called,

Then back on track, Maybe someone has more info on the femoral veins. How to find them? What length point? And why is it more common in the UK than the US. A google search doesn't give good info but if the UK is printing pamplets on how to, then it must be a viable site.

[candy]

Hey rajah,
Unfortunately most nurses don't generally care about the needs of junkies. Something like putting in an IV or doing a blood draw needs to be easy or they become frustrated and mean. Unless they can do a task in 30 seconds flat, they don't want to bother.

Can you sense the sarcasm there? I don't have much respect for most of those I have worked with or had the pleasure of being one of their patients either. There only interests are who brought what for the potluck and when their next break will be.

OK, not every nurse is like this.....But enough are and as I stay in this profession I see more and more of those i work with or come in contact with as lazy, fat, and unwilling to make a difference for their patients!

Sorry, seems I lost it there a bit.
Finding veins is a nightmare for most who inject after some time. The femoral vein as Poppy said should be avoided because of Deep vein thrombosis. You don't want clots forming in your lower extremities.

While I myself have gone to some great lengths to find veins, I generally tell those I work with as pts. to only try and hit those veins they can see and or feel. I did once discuss the use of the neck veins and really shouldn't have. Something I myself have done many times as a nurse and on myself....but not good advice to give on the internet!

Men tend to have better veins than women anyway, but it is inevitable that most of use who inject will end up with scarring, tracks, and just no veins at all or very hard to find.

There are things that can be done in the event of an emergency and actually if worse comes to worse, we can do what is called an intraosteous line. Which is a line into the bone, usually into the femor. It is generally a last resort and not always reliable and is actually done on kids and babies alot.

Anyway.....your suggestion was good and as i said, if someone can find a vein lets say in the hand...hey that is great!

So thanks

[vanilla_mlkshake2007]

[quote=rajah]I'm a little surprised I didn't find more info on this subject here as it is a problem that all long time IV users face. After long abuse by the point, alot of us have problems with sites no matter what we do,ie hot baths, exercise, tie-off. Eventually all visible veins go bye-bye. This as you know gets extremely frusurating after you spend 2 hours searching and then miss because your so frustrated or sick. And IM just isn't always a valid choice because of works size or previous bad experiences with abcesses. Remember when you were a kid and used to put a flashlight in your palm and you could see inside the back of your hand!!!, well thats the idea. But it only works were veins are close to the skin, and you press the light, bulb down on the specific area. You will illuminate many veins that you didn't know existed. Some area to look at are upper thighs, inside of elbows, upper arms, back of legs and others. Definately depends on body fat content. You need to also be in a dark room close to the light switch so you can turn it on when you flash or register. You can also use a pen to mark the spot with a circle careful not to contaminate the site. Turn on light and then do that thing. I am not advocating this method to anyone nor am I saying that you should try it, but I know it has brought relief to many that thought they were at the end of their blue ropes. Also careful with the thighs as they tend to bruise easily as these veins are easily poked through. Desparate people do desparate things, but this is much safer and easier than trying to hit your neck by yourself. And always use proper site cleansing tecniques, always.
RAJAH I JUST HAD TO TELL U FROM THE DEPHS of my girly veins Thanx!!!I Just went into the Bathroom,My favorite spot it seems these days and shined the flashlight under my fingers.On top of my 1st ffinger (not the pinky) I found this huge blue (well black w/ the flashlight)vein.I didn't dare turn out the lights but the sucka was so fat I could remember where it was and I turned the light on ,usually i do gotta mark a good 1 with a pen,but 1st try it registered like a bright red river flowing and seeming I use a fresh point every time had no problems .To all you girls like me that think all your veins are gone give it a try .Although I don't suggest IV'g in the dark this is going to become part of my morning rituals.Damn that means I gotta add aflashlight to my junkie bag which already has alcohol prep pads,cotton balls a spoon,mortar and pestal and a fresh bag of rigs.Its definately worth it I IV'd only 60 mg.of Avinza and I got a incredible rush,I got a sick tummy feeling and my stomach feels like its gota pulse of its own,As i am writing this as i'm still rushing out.Thanx for the great idea.It DEFINATLY works!!!!!