**** JWH018 ****

[pharmboy]

There was an article about this on the BBC today , anybody ever try it ?

Ever heard of it ? Its new to me. Supposedly its like synth. THC.

[SeVeN]

Is it like Synthetic THC? Or is it a spice or something. Appearently its legal? I really couldn't find much if anything at all on it. Any links?

[nick]

Yeah,I've heard of it and until a lot more is known about it and I know the production process is not being done in a bath tub in China......I'll pass.

Hell,smoke a joint instead.

[pharmboy]

Ya I agree Nick. Try this Seven.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7887720.stm

Later

[oxy kid]

Looks pretty interesting. I wouldn't mind trying it out.

[Larry]

Isnt JWH018 one of the active ingredients in that spice stuff?

[nick]

Isnt JWH018 one of the active ingredients in that spice stuff?

Don't know about spice.It's sold as incense from China in England.

[Larry]

Don't know about spice.It's sold as incense from China in England.


Yuk, No Thanks.

Anyone who is interested in this stuff should take Nicks advice and stick clear of it until more is learned about it. I have personally heard mixed reviews about it, I would suggest sticking to regular ol marijuana over this shit.

[SeVeN]

When I was a bit younger I could see myself trying this at least once. But meh... Thanks for the link.

[jacky]

I tried the spice smoking blend apparently before they started adulterating their blends with synthetic cannabanoids trying to keep up with the other "spice alike" companies that were marketing similiar herbal smoking blends.

the spice blend was ok...but nothing spectacular.

I didnt try the blend later in the game when I believe they has started adulteration.

from what I understand the compounds are not traceable in a piss test. so mainly I think the interested people that would rather spend 50-60$ on a pack of legal herbs adulterated with cannabanoid research chems were those very worried about legal ramifications of smoking thc for one reason or another.

the pure compounds are avialable by some research companies.

from what I have heard, most synthetic cannabanoids, even though technically stronger in some pharmakinetic aspects, dont measure up to the effects of the different range of THC compounds.

the fact that these companies misled people, tried to gain favor by their so called discovery of a cannabis substitute blend of herbs...adulterated the herbs with research chems....makes me glad that their little game is over for the most part.

I have seen photos of JWH018 pure compound material. it looks like a red, waxy, hash like substance.

some of these cannabanoids are controlled substances already in this country...so if you do find a supplier...beware of what you are ordering.

if I was on parole or probation, I would probably be alot more interested.

the subject of synth/natural cannabanoids is really interesting, but from what I have read, no bioassays seem to reveal much potential for recreational users other than as a low grade replacment for cannabis.
some people compare some of them as being as interesting as thc....but I have never read a report in which the person thought that the compound was somehow an improvement on the known natural compounds.

one subject I am interested in....is the oleamide compound. made from reacting a component of olive oil with urea.
apparently oleamide is an endogenous, CB1 receptor agonist...a natural cannabanoid found in animals and possibly plants?
Dr Otto Snow writes about it in one of his newer books...called Tropococaine and THC.
he talks about this in his interview in the latest and last ENTHEOGEN REVIEW...
apparently...some researchers think that one of the spice blends might have contained amounts of oleamide.
I dont think oleamide is a controlled substance.
its similiar to our natural cannabanoid, anandamide.
fatty amides I think they call them, or maybe its amines.....ok, actually its fatty acid amines.

anandamide occurs in chocolate...your body would destroy this pretty much immediately upon digestion...
but from what I understand, it looks possible that an anandamide like analog, naturally in chocolate also, actually inhibits the bodys destruction of anandamide...or inhibits the elimination of anandamide from the body

oleamide and anandamide I think would be something more interesting to research...as they are endogneous compounds..and at least anandamide can be sourced probably in forms of at least raw chocolate nibs.

but you cant stick that in a pipe and smoke it.

I did a chocolate diet for a few months. I consumed at least 1-3 ounces of raw cocoa a night.
I noticed more stimulant and anti depressant like effect than anything. it was hard sometimes swallowing that much cocoa. I would mix with water, chill, and eat it on ice cream...or just straight shot it as fast as possible.

[devilsdrug]

jacky u never cease to amaze me

[Budman]

For those calling jwh-018 a low strength pot sub, you could not be more wrong. I have read varying numbers, but the lowest consistant number I have seen says jwh-018 is 5x as strong as thc.

Swim has been trying different smoking blends recently and is amazed. Swim used to be a heavy pot smoker and only smoked the best of buds. Once swim got married and had kids and lost his pot connections he only smoked when he was around it maybe once every 2 to 4 months.

Enter jwh-018. Swim wAs sceptical at first but did a lot of reading. It is still too new a chemical to know long term effects but studies have been done that show it us basically as harmless as pot.

Swim got 3 grams of Fire n Ice. His first time was on his lunch break at work ( stupid). Took a about 5 hits then thought it was wasted money. But boy did it creap. Swim was VERY high all of a sudden. Thankfully it was a Friday and the office was empty so he was able to avoid people for the rest of he day. The high lasted about 4 hours.

After further experimening with dosage swim determined one bat hit was all he needed. Suck it in and hold it for 10 seconds and you are baked.

He smoked two hits in a row and for about 15 minutes thing were really fucked up. It was like acid without visuals.

At the higher dosages paranoia tried to creep in but it was easy to keep that at bay. Music was great and munchies were present.

It is very similar to pot. A pot conosour would be able to tell the difference but a casual user would not.

For those who need to stay clean or don't have a pot connection his stuff is WELL worth it.

[Uncle Wiggly]

Doh! :rolleyes:

[KoDeInaaaae]

yea i had a topic about this about 2 weeks ago...Its whats in spice and all the diff brands.

[Paregoric Kid]

well I don't mind spice and spice-type products. they can't really just sell pure research chemicals in head shops and since its not being sold for human consumption they don't have to worry. the pure chemicals are way better. some of the JWH and CP compounds are really, really good when you smoke it with cannabis or just smoke it with feeder leaves (which contains a little THC but more importantly still contains good amounts of the other cannabinoids) it changes the experience and makes it feel more "natural". and you don't even have to smoke/vaporize them that is just an example. if you take a large dose of any of the JWH compounds you will be overwhelmed, it really can be strong stuff, the dose determines the strength. but by weight for example CP 55,940 is 45x stronger than THC, there are hundreds of JWH compounds some can be just half the potency of THC and I believe there are also some that are in the area of 400x stronger than THC.
I don't know if oleamide is active in smoking blends or not. I really, really want to try it. I am planning on doing some cocoa extractions. I am interested in taking anandamide and oleamide with acetaminophen (tylenol). the reason being tylenol is metabolized into AM404 an FAAH (Fatty Acid Amide Hydrolase) inhibitor which would potentiate and increase the levels and duration of effects of anandamide/oleamide, because AM404 will prevent FAAH enzymes from metabolizing them thus they can reach the brain in high enough levels to become active. the concept is similar to how MAOIs make DMT and yage/ayahuasca active or how taking an MAO B inhibitor makes phenethylamine (PEA) active.

[duck]

I've never understood the drive to find new chemicals that replicate the effects of THC...as soon as they're affirmatively found to be effective, they'll be illegalized... just smoke some chronic my bruvs! *reaches to grab his stash bag*

[Paregoric Kid]

well first of all being in possession of these new compounds is a lot different than being in possession of cannabis in most places, ie its not illegal. its also interesting to experience them because they all have slightly different effects. if you have to worry about piss tests then you really can't just use cannabis unless you get a whizzinator or do some other crazy shit to avoid detection. some of the stronger ones could be pretty interesting. also its easier to transport a small amount of powder compared to the amount you would be carrying of cannabis which is bulky and smelly and police dogs and police are trained to sniff it out but not the chemicals. I think they are fascinating and it gives more recreational and medical users choice. if people were just satisfied with what is already common things would get boring, there would only be opium no morphine, heroin, fentanyl, etc. they are also interesting to use as cannabis and opioid potentiators.
most of all research, discovery, and new experiences are fun.

[duck]

well first of all being in possession of these new compounds is a lot different than being in possession of cannabis in most places, ie its not illegal. its also interesting to experience them because they all have slightly different effects. if you have to worry about piss tests then you really can't just use cannabis unless you get a whizzinator or do some other crazy shit to avoid detection. some of the stronger ones could be pretty interesting. also its easier to transport a small amount of powder compared to the amount you would be carrying of cannabis which is bulky and smelly and police dogs and police are trained to sniff it out but not the chemicals. I think they are fascinating and it gives more recreational and medical users choice. if people were just satisfied with what is already common things would get boring, there would only be opium no morphine, heroin, fentanyl, etc. they are also interesting to use as cannabis and opioid potentiators.
most of all research, discovery, and new experiences are fun.

10-4 bruv. nicely put.

[doctor diesel]

TAKEN FROM EROWID:-

The same suspicions that we'd had about Spice led a number of organizations in various countries to do their own chemical testing. To date, a handful of synthetic chemicals have been identified in Spice-type products. In December 2008, the city of Frankfurt, Germany was the first to reveal definitive identification of a synthetic cannabinoid agonist in Spice products. They contracted with a specialized laboratory named THC Pharm to do an in-depth chemical analysis. THC Pharm found that Spice contained JWH-018, a cannabinoid agonist. In January 2009, U.S. Customs agents reported that seized Spice products contained HU-210, though theirs is the only lab to have found HU-210 and this finding has not yet been verified elsewhere.5 (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/spice_product/spice_product_article1.shtml#ref5)

In January 2009, the Journal of Mass Spectrometry published a letter by Auwärter, Dresen, et al. from the University of Freiburg that included mass spectrums (the "fingerprints") for several compounds found in Spice and related products. The authors identified the primary substance as an unnamed homolog of the cannabinoid agonist CP 47,497, with one more carbon atom on its "tail" than CP 47,497.6 (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/spice_product/spice_product_article1.shtml#ref6)

We were excited to find that the mass spectrums of the compounds that were identified in the Auwärter paper as the primary cannabinoid agonists in Spice, Spice Gold, and Spice Diamond, nearly exactly matched the results of our 2007 analysis. The CP 47,497 homolog was clearly the same chemical that our laboratory analysis had been unable to identify in the Spice we purchased and had analyzed some 20 months before Auwärter et al. purchased the Spice they analyzed.5 (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/spice_product/spice_product_article1.shtml#ref5)

Some open questions remain: Might extremely low doses of HU-210 or other chemicals be present in products where they have not yet been found? What variations in combinations or levels are currently being sold? Are there other analytical issues preventing detection in some instances? What chemicals will be discovered in future products of this type?


dOC

[Citricburn]

Load of bollocks, this country fucks me right off, a drug thats banned in the Netherlands is still legal over here and they havent got the minerals to realise the positive impact legalising weed could have over here.....

[Budman]

Some open questions remain: Might extremely low doses of HU-210 or other chemicals be present in products where they have not yet been found?

I would not think you would find HU-210 in many if any of these products. HU-210 is illegal (in the US at least), but JWH-018 is not. It would be much easier for companies to sell their product if they are using things not banned here.

[Citricburn]

********************************

anyone who wants to try this can get a sample for just postage rate....£5 roughly $10

[KoDeInaaaae]

I love the whole reasearch chemical movement it just stays just one step ahead of the laws and it feels the same or better then the chemicals they got it from so thank u reasearch chems

[Thanat0s]

havent been into the research chem scene since powdered dxm daze.........

id rather just smoke a bowl than try this stuff but my curiosity is piqued as to whats all on the scene now...

prepaid card here i come, oh boy...

[Citricburn]

that link was at ***************didnt show for some reason

[Paregoric Kid]

can you take it intranasally? any experiences that way or sublingually?

[30_Units]

No exp with either. Apparently I've got half a gram being delivered sometime today, but we'll see how that goes /grumble tracking system worthless

TBH, the way the stuff smelled-very much indoley-I wasn't too hot-to-trot sniffing it.

Orally it works GREAT, just like cannabis that doesn't need decarboxylation, just smash it into a cookie or something. But that's not SL, is it?

I'll letcha' know, pk. I'mma smoke a big meth-ball of it first-thing, but I'll letcha know.

Oh, and foil is NOT good for vaping 18. It get's VERY runny and you basically lose it on your fingers or off the end of the foil when it sliiiiides right off, like a bead of mercury.

You can make a bowl in the foil, if you insist, by shaping with something like the bottom of a coke can, and this keeps the bead around the heat.

But a meth-pipe works just fine. ;)

[Paregoric Kid]

I've tried spice and things like it but just tried pure JWH-018 and holy shit is that some good stuff! tried it sublingually, vaporized, and on top of bud. the potency surprised me.

[KoDeInaaaae]

how did the sublingual method work for u?

[Paregoric Kid]

surprisingly good. it reminded me a bit of sublingual dronabinol. vaporized is amazing too.

[Paregoric Kid]

wanted to add that I thought alcohol and glycerine helped to dissolve it sublingually and helped it kick in faster.

[port rhombus]

I love this stuff.

Saying though.

[jacky]

I think its interesting that these range of compounds are still legal in the USA and Canada....and probably all over south america and such.
at this point, the JWH range will most likely support a growing number of specialy shops in the USA and Canada.

does anyone know the potential number of analogs this compound type might produce? are we talking scores, hundreds, or thousands or more analogs possible?

apart from the use of these compounds to adulterate herbs without proper labeling...
I am definitely interested, especially if they could create some compounds with THC/nmda antagonist effects/etc...
quasi opioids....

I had an experience a few years ago of unfortunately consuming a hideously potent "irie" milk preperation....too much THC and related compounds in one place.
the dysphoria and dizziness was very intense...my heart rate climbed to around 100 bpm and was sustained like that for hours.
I felt like I needed to purge...but couldnt....I couldnt stand up straight, because my stomach muscles were clamped and cramping...
when I closed my eyes, I lost my consciousness for the period, and experienced basically a dissasociative slushy effect.
everything seemed sinister.
my freind should have known the potency...but didnt...she was a dealer, so she had tons of shake and stems of high quality stuff...
I SHOULD have know the potency was too much just from the acrid oily bitter taste of the milk....but lots of sugar helped me swallow that crap, and I was seriously regretting it for around 24 hours.
it was a definite overdose...I felt that if I was in poor health, the experience wouldve killed me.
it reminded me of the story of a freind of the family that ate hash balls coming back from europe, and spent weeks in a coma because he used beeswax and not condoms to wrap the dope. he went comatose on the plane...and woke up in incarceration. my mother says he wasnt the same for years after that.

knowing that high doses of THC can be unpleasant...it makes me wonder of the potential with these JWH type compounds.
at the moment, I am sure chemists are pumping out as much of this as they can.
purity might be an issue with some suppliers of course.
and if some of the substances are close to a hash type substance...who knows who is going to get this stuff laced in their hash..
I can see some potential for hospital visits if people are not aware of what they are consuming.

all in all though, something like this NEEDS to happen.....prohibition obviously influences the black market, and also scientific research....how many synthetic compounds in the future will we have? probably millions at some point.

perhaps a wave of research chem use will wake some lawmakers up. do nothing about prohibition, and face an onslaught of chemicals....legalize certian compounds, and try and limit the amount of synthetics that are researched.

from my experience with the natural drugs, is that even though the synthetics come very close, many do not hit the mark. out of all the phen's that I have tried...nothing is quite like mescaline....in the same ballpark...but not playing the game as well.

[Paregoric Kid]

there is perhaps an endless amount of analogs that could be made. there are many legal synthetic cannabinoids that are in the aminoalkylindoles, aminoalkylpyrroles, eicosanoids families. lots of the legal ones are from the CP, HU, JWH, WIN series of synthetic cannabinoids as well as many others. even if they make some of them illegal there are still legal alternatives. there is even a legal cannabinoid that is produced in certain types of liver worts, very similar to THC, its called perrottetinene. not to mention there are many endocannabinoid activity enhancers.

[30_Units]

Purity was an issue last year, when the red, rust colored crap that some people one another drug forum ran through a gc/ms at about 60% purity, with god knows what the impurities were-presumably something iron based, but that's just an elementary guess.

I too am counting off the days before the jwh series is mass scheduled, despite it's amazingly safe profile regarding od. Someone will crash into an intersection with a vial full of it, and then it will all be gone. It's a lot like pot in that intentional excess will likely cause panic and/or anxiety in those predisposed to it when excessively smoking pot.

Fuck people selling it laden in plant material-It's just a way for people that buy grams to sell 500mg in 100mg increments for about the same price they pay for the gram. Disgusting. But that's capitalism! bfd on the grand scale, i guess.

/Smokes another nineball

[dieselbaby]

So, I'm driving today here in CA and what do I see on the license plate in front of me?

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5263/0204101654a.jpg

Took a picture as best I could with my crappy cell phone camera's zoom. You think the driver of this car knows what's up, or is it a strange coincidence?

[30_Units]

That's hilarious.

Hard to tell without seeing the driver. Blue-haired granny or junky scum? That's the litmus, right there. But I doubt it anyway...the 5 doesn't really have any kind of reference that I can think of...blah

Good find

[duck]

Oh man. that is awesome. I bet for sure it is intentional.

[jacky]

well, in California alot of those grey hair grannies ARE junkie scum...ha ha...

last time I was riding the bus in Cali I watched an OLD african american woman toking a joint with some younger people

[The_Chef]

Quality stuff. I acquired some last November and just finished the last of it last friday. The effects don't last quite as long and to an extent I missed the ritual of packing a bowl, passing it around, etc but it is otherwise very much like the real deal. The one problem is that with the low dosages it is very easy to overdo it, even with a reasonably accurate scale. At the very least, I would recommend the JWH family over Spice, K2 and all those other "smoking blends." In all probability it is the same thing only you know what you are getting and are paying a fraction of the price. What with their relative affordability (~$50 for 50+ good smokes) and lack of detectability via drug tests a better cannabis substitute could not be dreamed of.

[Seedy]

I just realised that here in NZ there's a huge range of 'smoking blends' based on different mixes of these synthetic cannabanoids. I haven't had a decent source of weed recently so decided to have a go.

I must say I'm impressed, very impressed. They're about the same price per weight and similar potency to weed. The one I tried felt like a good pure sativa strain. Quite energetic, no monging, nice buzz over all. My only qualms are the taste, surely they could find something better as a carrier material than tarragon (or whatever the fuck herb they picked up from the supermarket). And also the buzz doesn't last as long as the real thing. For some people it probably wouldn't cut it as it's not such a full spectrum weed high but for me it keeps the best aspects.

Here's a thread on a NZ drug website that discusses the different brands we can get here:http://www.tripme.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=1854 - quite an interesting read.

[jpeg]

i read a very long thread about these chems on another board a few weeks ago. in that thread was a linked article with a few blurbs from the guy who created these chems...his initials are JWH, i forget his exact name. i wanna say he first synth. them in clemson? might be wrong about that part. anyways, the guy is really freaking out about how the use of them has become so widespread. he said in the article that as his research on the longterm effect of these chems progresses, the more he is convinced that they are carcinogenic in a big way. thats from the chemist who first created the chemicals, not some random LE douche. i'm waaaaay too (guess) to try and find the article right now, i'll leave that for someone else :P

[Chipper]

I wonder if they have these shops here in Sydney (Seedy/ anyone?)

[Locke]

He who controls the spice controls Arrakis.

[Seedy]

I wonder if they have these shops here in Sydney (Seedy/ anyone?)

i know the aust govt. is way more conservative than nz when it comes to legislation of new substances but it's be worth a look. check out the shop that sponsers the site i linked, they may ship to aust. or check your local headshop.

[Chipper]

<snip>
i know the aust govt. is way more conservative than nz when it comes to legislation of new substances but it's be worth a look. check out the shop that sponsers the site i linked, they may ship to aust. or check your local headshop.

Thanks Seedy ... I'll see if I can find a "head" shop in a likely part of town. I'm too worried about getting anything mailed to me that may attract the attention of customs: It's not because I'm holding anything (which I'm not) but I don't want any hassle whatsoever. :cool: !

[jacky]

I think this whole JWH-018 phenomenon is the reason that its hard to get bulk amounts of organic red clover tops. the red clover tops look very much like orange haired good quality sativa when dried, and I have noticed some blends using a good ratio of these red clover buds and mullein as a carrier for their research chems.
some blends seem to just use top quality leonitus leonurus buds and red clover buds together to create blends that are mostly buds and little shake.
some blends use thick botanical extracts on their blends, probably chaste tree, blue lilly, aromatic herbs, oils etc, that create thick heavy smoke.

I think people should look for some of the simplest blends that dont use alot of flavorings.
some of the blends utilizing the recipe list similiar to spice, that initially was trying to create a smoking blend that was all botanical, are very heavy.

two years ago I was giving my opinions to a person with a labratory who was creating smoke blends, all herbal, no synthetics.
so I ended up with a range of r and d blends.
some of them were so laden with different plant isolates and oils, that my lungs reacted very badly to smoking even moderate to small amounts of the blend.
at one point it made my nighttime breathing problems intolerable.....I had to buy a OTC inhaler to get through a few nights.

alot of companies are competing trying to create heavy smoking, menthol laden, flavored herb blends...
some peoples lungs are going to react unfavorably to this type of smoke.
so keeping it simple might be the best way.

red clover, mullein, marchmallow, blue lilly, lemon balm, and a bit of ground eucaplyptus leaf, with a bit of calendula petals makes for a great smoking blend that might be a little harsh, but it wont terrify your lungs as bad as some of the heavy resinous plant isolates/extracts that are used to create some of these blends.

there will probably be someone to start distributing JWH on blotter as well of course.

the problem with the pure compound is it is a really potent chemical.
someone reported to me that they consumed nearly 400 milligrams in one night, orally. a person in the market, and who has been using high doses of the substance for some time now. they were sick for 24 hours, throwing up and the like.
for a person without a tolerance to the substance...a few milligrams is probably enough to too much.

it makes sense for safetys sake that the JWH-018 be metered out and diluted in some manner.
the pure compound is too potent for most ignorant or newbie types to handle in my opinion....

the problem with most commercial incense blends is that they do not divulge the presence of JWH-018 in their blends.
which is a self destructive marketing ploy I think...

I am against all blends and manufacturers that do not list their full ingredients.

marketing a incense blend that labels JWH--018 as an ingredient, AND ALSO STATES MILLIGRAM PER GRAM ratios is the smart and safer way to market.
a vendor should pride themselves on trying to reach an informed public.
that the chemical is still legal, leaves even less reason to not post the ingredients.
and a blend that doesnt list JWH content, will eventually lose out to the ones that do standardize their product and list the milligram amount, people want to rely on a known figure, not guess and waste their money on blends that are screwing people silly.

for producers of these blends, if they are making good money, are most likely getting the pure compound for around 10$ per gram...I have heard of prices as low as 3 $ per gram...that is for the JWH-018 compound.
I expect that many of these blends use around 20-50 milligrams of JWH per gram...maybe that is a bit high, or low, specifically...
but lets say a vendor is paying 5$ a gram for the JWH bulk.
they make a 100 grams of herb mix, that probably cost them 5$ or less....
and add 3 grams of JWH per 100 grams of mix.
they'll get 103 grams of usable product, that will probably translate into 90-95 grams of bagged material due to weighing the bags a little heavy.
and all that cost them about 20$ worth of product, and maybe 30cents worth of acetone or other solvent.
lets say 1-2$ in electricity to dry the material.
so 25$ per 95 grams
which comes to 26 cents per bag...not counting bagging shipping labeling overhead etc etc etc.

some of these companies are charging 50$ for 3 grams of incense that cost them a few bucks maybe to make.

with those types of profits, I think people should divulge the ingredients and let people in on what it is that they are burning around their pets, familys, children etc etc.

the other thing is, that these blends NEED to be properly labeled for safetys sake. JWH-018 in small amounts can make some people VERY fucking ill. intense pain, and suffering, ends some people up at the emergency room if they can make it there.

in my opinion, there is no room for people playing games with research chemicals...I dont care if its "just a cannabinoid"....experiencing a cannabis overdose myself three years ago that put the fear in me, and made me sick as hell for hours and hours, I can only imagine what a research chemical more potent than THC would feel like.

many people smoke this stuff and use it on a regular basis, and to them it probably becomes mundane, they can take very high doses, and be nominally effected. but even a gram or half gram of incense, with just 10-50 milligrams of JWH on it, can have disastrous effects on those without a tolerance.

depending on how cool people play this next few months, will decide probably on how many years, or months this compound has before total scheduling.

[Seedy]

^^ damn, i never thought about the profits they must be making off this stuff!

...I'll see if I can find a "head" shop in a likely part of town...

A very handy place when you find yourself fucked in the head and need a replacement!