Any new ibogane experiences?

[trainwrecker]

I posted on this subject some time ago and had some good replies, but I was wondering if anyone has had any new experiences with Ibogane treatment?
I have taking less and less suboxone over the past year or so but I just can't seem to get below 1mg per day without feeling really sick. I really, really want to get off opiates. More than I ever have in my life, seriously this time. The problem is I really can't take work off for more than a week or so, there are a number of reasons why it would be impossible. So if I could take a week and do iboga treatment, come back with few or no remaining symptoms... perfect.
I see this as my only chance to get off opiates.

[Alifaust]

My experience with ibogaine was really good. I was amazed at how well it worked. I had tapered down to 50mg methadone and did ibogaine and I had no withdrawal symptoms at all. A few weeks later I shot dope for about 10 days, which is usually enough to get a habit for me. No symptoms at all. Its weird how long it holds you over. My girlfriend quit methadone cold turkey after tapering down to 15-20mg and she was sick as hell for weeks.

In case you couldnt tell, I didnt get any of the "im not going to touch heroin ever again!" thing ive heard from others. It did make me look at my habits in a new way, but it really didnt stop me. But not going through weeks of methadone withdrawal was what I wanted from it, and thats what I got.

I should mention that when I was doing dope, it really wasnt doing anything. Ibogaine seems to do some weird shit to your receptors.

I paid $1500 for a main dose of ibogaine hcl and a few boosters of the bark root. Considering I was paying $533 a month at the methadone clinic this seemed well worth it.

Ibogaine kicked my ass though. It was a few days before I could eat, I had to take benzo's to sleep and I felt like I had been run over by a truck. Not withdrawal, but just no energy. It fucks with your sleep patterns for a while. You just seem to need less sleep for months after taking it.

In comparison to lsd/mushrooms/dmt etc ibogaine is a really strange hallucinogen. Ive never taken anything like it. If needed i'd do it again.

Hope this helps

[SHELLEY]

I posted on this subject some time ago and had some good replies, but I was wondering if anyone has had any new experiences with Ibogane treatment?
I have taking less and less suboxone over the past year or so but I just can't seem to get below 1mg per day without feeling really sick. I really, really want to get off opiates. More than I ever have in my life, seriously this time. The problem is I really can't take work off for more than a week or so, there are a number of reasons why it would be impossible. So if I could take a week and do iboga treatment, come back with few or no remaining symptoms... perfect.
I see this as my only chance to get off opiates.

if you "really really want to get off opiates more than you ever have in your life"
then why don't you just man up thru the sickness after jumping off 1mg of sub?
if you don't want it bad enough to go thru a lil pain
then soon as something bad comes up clean you will be right back on

if you are really really serious, then take on the sick
instead of looking for hallucinogenic mexican miracle cures

[nick]

if you "really really want to get off opiates more than you ever have in your life"
then why don't you just man up thru the sickness after jumping off 1mg of sub?
if you don't want it bad enough to go thru a lil pain
then soon as something bad comes up clean you will be right back on

if you are really really serious, then take on the sick
instead of looking for hallucinogenic mexican miracle cures

So,you don't have any new ibogane experiences then.

[SHELLEY]

So,you don't have any new ibogane experiences then.

no

[lespaulpower]

if you "really really want to get off opiates more than you ever have in your life"
then why don't you just man up thru the sickness after jumping off 1mg of sub?
if you don't want it bad enough to go thru a lil pain
then soon as something bad comes up clean you will be right back on

if you are really really serious, then take on the sick
instead of looking for hallucinogenic mexican miracle cures

Im sure this helped trainwreck out alot shelly....

Do you browse through all the posts looking for ones you don't like; responding to them all?

Oh well, It's only YOUR time your wasting.

And you know, I'm sure alot of people are serious about getting clean from dope, yet not everyone is ready for the physical and emotional anguish of detox and post-acute withdrawal.

[oxy kid]

no


Obviously. I think he was just looking for experiences.

Good information would have been very, very useful for the people that want it.

[Opiyum]

I posted on this subject some time ago and had some good replies, but I was wondering if anyone has had any new experiences with Ibogane treatment?
I have taking less and less suboxone over the past year or so but I just can't seem to get below 1mg per day without feeling really sick. I really, really want to get off opiates. More than I ever have in my life, seriously this time. The problem is I really can't take work off for more than a week or so, there are a number of reasons why it would be impossible. So if I could take a week and do iboga treatment, come back with few or no remaining symptoms... perfect.
I see this as my only chance to get off opiates.

I don't have anything to say about ibogaine that you can't find somewhere on the internet (seeing that your interested in it Im sure you've seen all the same websites and stuff I have) but I do have a question for you about your subs.
You mention that you have trouble once your at 1mg and Im just curious when do you start to feel like shit because of the low dose?
I ask because last year I was at 2mg's a day and thought I was gonna be able to jump off there (I had done it the same way a few years prior but I was in a new state and had no money or access to drugs or subs) but I failed. What I wanted to mention though was that I was really surprised by the fact that I didn't begin to feel ANY WD symptoms until a little more than 48 hours after my last dose of sub. Because of it's crazy half life (37 hours or something like that) you may want to try alternating 1mg and 2mg days and then eventually once stable on that go to 1mg every day.
Anyhow man...best of luck to you. I hope you figure out a way to live with or get rid of opiates.

Opiyum

[SHELLEY]

i don't respond to every thread
but what i said is true
you can't say on one hand "i am really really serious"
and on the other hand "i am totally unwilling to go thru any pain to get it"

[upstate_007]

i don't respond to every thread
but what i said is true
you can't say on one hand "i am really really serious"
and on the other hand "i am totally unwilling to go thru any pain to get it"

That is *true* sometimes Shelley. But, minimizing and/or eliminating withdrawal symptoms is only one facet of Ibogane treatment. It goes a lot deeper than avoiding the rattle.

[Thebane]

i don't respond to every thread
but what i said is true
you can't say on one hand "i am really really serious"
and on the other hand "i am totally unwilling to go thru any pain to get it"

Didn't you taper on mdone rather than going cold turkey after you had your kid? Don't be a hypocrite. You're trying to minimize the pain, so is he.

[EleusisII]

Lord knows that Shelle can speak for herself, but I just wanted to point out that she's nursing a baby. So it's a completely different situation.
And she has a really good point. If you want a completely free lunch here, how serious are you really? And how likely are you stay off opiates, which we all know is the hardest thing.
And isn't it really the tendency of solving any problem with pills or chemicals, that has brought us where we are, addictionwise?
Im sure this helped trainwreck out alot shelly....
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it did too.... Hell if I was about to drive into a wall, I'm pretty sure I'd appreciate some advice no matter if the person has wall-colliding experience.
BTW, you know that this is an open internet forum, right? As in, even though you started a thread, you have no right to tell people what to write and what not to write.
Do you browse through all the posts looking for ones you don't like; responding to them all?

Do you browse trough all the posts, looking for ones you can drag offtopic by being an arse?
And you know, I'm sure alot of people are serious about getting clean from dope, yet not everyone is ready for the physical and emotional anguish of detox and post-acute withdrawal.
LOL! Yup... Just like I'm really serious about becoming a millionaire. No, I don't do anything for it, but I really want it, so I guess that means I'm really serious about it?
I'd say you're way off here. If your drug addiction really is so horrible, than a simple week or two in agony should be a small price to pay.
But back to the topic...
So if I could take a week and do iboga treatment, come back with few or no remaining symptoms... perfect.
I see this as my only chance to get off opiates.
Have you thought about switching to a short acting opiate: Oxycodone, Hydro, hell even codeine, and then going CT from there?

You know what they say about if something sounds too good, it's usually to good to be true.

No, I have no personal experience with Ibogaine, but I'd be very hesitant to try it, especially paying thousands of dollars for it. My reasons are these:

1. It seems to be a typical case of pseudo-science and magic cures. The people that provide these claim something like a 90% successrate, but when you actually talk to people that have tried it, in most cases it was ineffective.

2. Absolutely no scientific evidence of whether it works, and what the mechanism is. It goes against pretty much everything we know about opiates. If it really is so effective, then where are the studies that prove it?

3. Safety... It's a very powerful psychedelic, something you risk getting a psychotic break and mental illness from. People have died from it.

So yeah... Who knows, it might work for you, I really doubt it, and it's not something I'd spend a fortune on, or even risk trying. Especially in your case, where you're trying to quit a tiny suboxone habit, and not some lifethreatening addiction.
Whatever you decide however, OF COURSE it isn't your last chance to quit opiates.

[nick]

So E,you have no new experience with ibogaine either.

[bronyraur]

<snip> yeah... Who knows, it might work for you, I really doubt it, and it's not something I'd spend a fortune on, or even risk trying. Especially in your case, where you're trying to quit a tiny suboxone habit, and not some lifethreatening addiction.
Whatever you decide however, OF COURSE it isn't your last chance to quit opiates.

More than one member here has described their "tiny suboxone habit" as a true nightmare to jump off of.

From the prolonged WDs, to the crippling anxiety, to the long as hell PAWS–I don't think Suboxone deserves to be discredited quite that quickly.

[tch2296]

Eluisis, do your own research - you will find that Ibogaine has been used very successfully since the 1960s.

There is no way you can talk shit about it or pretend it is pseudoscience until you try it. If you actually talk to people that have done it, you will find that almost all of them noticed that the withdrawal from opiates was made substantially easier, or eliminated completely. Almost everyone will tell you this.

Sure, you could go back shooting dope a week later, but if you take it seriously, Ibogaine has been used successfully for this purpose for 50 years; it is not pseudoscience. You should read a scientific paper or a study on Ibogaine before classifying it.

Suboxone w/d is no joke. I stopped using Suboxone and Valium all at once; cold turkey, just using gabapentin to help ease the withdrawals, but it was a fucking nightmare. I had to be hospitalized because they thought I was going to have a seizure.

I agree that you should switch to a short-acting opiate first, because 3 weeks of opiate w/d (which is what you get with suboxone or methadone) is enough to drive anyone into a relapse.

If I had the money to use Ibogaine, I would do it, for sure - to be able to rid my mind of this addiction and obsession, to look at it all in a different way, and to be given a chance to start over - it is pretty amazing. I just wish it was cheaper. I have tried using LSD and mushrooms in order to gain a new perspective on my addictions; although they helped me understand my addiction, the withdrawals were still there. That is what makes Ibogaine so unique; it lets your body AND your mind change.

[SHELLEY]

LOL! Yup... Just like I'm really serious about becoming a millionaire. No, I don't do anything for it, but I really want it, so I guess that means I'm really serious about it?
I'd say you're way off here. If your drug addiction really is so horrible, than a simple week or two in agony should be a small price to pay.

+100
i'm serious about becoming a hollywood actress
but i can't deal with the thought of moving to california or going on tv :rolleyes:

[Alifaust]

After reading a few of the replies I decided I should post a bit more of my experiences, and a few warnings as well.

Definitely be skeptical. Thats healthy. Read everything good and bad. Join the ibogaine list but remember they have a certain agenda as well.

Ibogaine is no magic bullet. It kicks your ass. You dont wake up the next day and go skipping down the road. I could barely walk. But, I wasnt dopesick. Im a total fucking pussy when it comes to withdrawals, even the tinyest bit im like "OH MY GOD MY LEGS ARE KINDA SORE!!! CALL THE DEALER NOW!!!!!!". There wasnt any phsyical symptoms, and none of the depression/crying shit for weeks that I experienced with previous kicks either. A week later I felt like I hadnt taken opiates in years. I was hoping I could shoot dope and it would act like I hadnt done it in years, but that didnt happen.

There's some studies on it, search around on pubmed. I believe its binding actions are documented, but exactly how it binds for weeks with a halflife of a few hours I belive is still unknown. Some of those studies arent exactly easy for someone without a medical degree to decypher though. But I agree with what some of the other posters are saying, it shouldnt work. I cant think of another drug that works for weeks thats not time released, ecpecially an opiate. The closest is LAAM, and I dont think thats really around anymore. And thats really nothing like ibogaine. Everyone I told about it (I never met anyone personally that had even heard of it) looked at me like I was nuts when I told them about it.

As I mentioned I was trying to do dope and methadone a while after and it just didnt do anything. It was definitely still binding to my resecptors. Nicotine receptors as well, I smoked so much it should of made me nasueas but I felt like I hadnt smoked in years.

******very important**** Doing opiates with ibogaine still doing its thing is supposedly insanely stupid. Its believed that because it potentiates opiates people have overdosed. They say to make sure your in withdrawal when you first take ibogaine so you dont overdose from opiates previoulsy in your system. This has been blamed for a few of the ibogaine deaths. Also if you have heart probs this may not be a solution for you.

My main concern was....how do you know your getting real ibogaine? I certainly didnt know what ibogaine hcl looked/tasted like when compared to any other powder. I posted a "where do I get it" message on the ibogaine list on tribe.net and someone from S. Africa contacted me. I checked him out and he was pretty active in the ibogaine community so I took a gamble and thankfully I didnt get burned. But if your wiring $1500 to some stranger in S. Africa for an illegal substance I would hope the "what the fuck are you doing" alerts are going off in your head. I make pretty good money, and paying $533 a month on the clinic so I figured it was a valid economic gamble. But if some asshole puts a few lsd hits in some ground up asperin and sells it to you for 2K I think you'd be pretty miserable.

If you've ever taken any hallucinogen before you'll handle ibogaine mentally no problem. Everything is closed eye visuals. Something weird happens just open your eyes and its gone. I have heard of one phychotic break that lasted 24hrs. Its not really a "edge of sanity" thing like LSD or mescaline can be. It has no recreational value.

If everyone that did ibogaine comes down with some strange neurological disorder 30 years later that wouldnt surprise me either. It stuck around a while mentally. I heard this buzzing for weeks. It was 2 weeks before I could listen to normal music again, everything sounded sped up. I knew this (probably slim) risk and accepted it. You gotta figure out where you are on that as well.

If your thinking about ibogaine read everything you can good & bad about it then think about it some more. Your taking some primarily medically untested substance that grows in 1 tiny part of the world to do something to your opiate receptors every neurology book will tell you is unlikely to work. Its weird shit, but it worked for me. I cant believe how long that stuff kept withdrawals away. I dont know anyone else personally thats tried it. My gilfriend was the sitter for when I took it, and she said she was amazed that I was fine a few days later (she kicked 1/4 methadone that I was on and was in hell for weeks) but wouldnt ever do it herself. Too freaky she said.

Jacky has some really informative posts on natural substances that help withdrawal in response to a kratom thread I had. He mentioned this "chinese formula" thats being sold that supposedly works wonders. I think it was like $80 for enough to kick. I'd try that before ibogaine. Much cheaper, and as much as I praise ibogaine, it does scare me. I have doubts of its effectiveness, but I had those of ibogaine too so im a bit more open to the natural cures idea.
http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=20938

Shelly did have some really good advice hiden in there. Basically a rewording of the "kicking is easy, staying off is hard" saying. You have something that makes you an addict. Gotta figure out what that is or you'll either be sober and miserable or strung out again. Best of luck.

[poonwhalla]

+100
i'm serious about becoming a hollywood actress
but i can't deal with the thought of moving to california or going on tv :rolleyes:

Probably would be hard to pull off when your a hooker with a face for radio too.

I thought it was pretty cool on the show Crash that Dennis Hopper's character was given Ibogane when he was brought to the desert to detox. Other then that I don't know anyone with any Ibogane experiences.

[Thebane]

Lord knows that Shelle can speak for herself, but I just wanted to point out that she's nursing a baby. So it's a completely different situation.


No, she's said the baby has tested negative for any methadone multiple times. So it's clearly the exact same situation. She may have a point, it doesn't make her not a hypocrite.

[SHELLEY]

No, she's said the baby has tested negative for any methadone multiple times. So it's clearly the exact same situation. She may have a point, it doesn't make her not a hypocrite.

i still couldn't be in full blown w/d and breastfeed my kid
plus, the op said he "tapered" but was too scared to jump off
i jumped off at 9mg of methadone, i didn't fuck around at1mg and 1/2

[roxi*stardust]

As much as I hate saying this, Shelley does make a good point, I normally don't agree with anything shelley says. If you really want off opiates and are willing to do whatever it takes than you really should accept that there is no way to kick that is going to be painless. You will ALWAYS have some withdrawal symptoms, it is the nature of the drug you are dependent on.
On to another point, you would be totally surprised how much of the withdrawal you experience is exaggerated by your own mind. It's is the differnce between dependence and addiction. There are patients that are treated for chronic pain with high amounts of opiates that get ill when they don't have them but that's it, they have flu-like symptoms. It's the mental addiction that drives us crazy, it makes withdrawal seem unbearable. Opiate addiction changes your brain, your brain thinks you can not survive without opiates.
I feel that Ibogaine may elighten the addict, I highly doubt it makes any serious physical changes in the body. If it worked and eliminated opiate addiction, they would be using it to treat opiate addiction; believe that!

[Alifaust]

As much as I hate saying this, Shelley does make a good point, I normally don't agree with anything shelley says. If you really want off opiates and are willing to do whatever it takes than you really should accept that there is no way to kick that is going to be painless. You will ALWAYS have some withdrawal symptoms, it is the nature of the drug you are dependent on.


In all the detoxes, programs and junkies ive met over the years there was only 1 person I would bet is still sober today. I was in drug court with her. She was a spanish woman in her 50's, and could of easily kicked any of our asses. Im sure you know the type. Grew up in NYC and touch as nails. She had been strung for over 20years without a break and went through all the usual shit that comes with the lifestyle. One day she woke up and said "im not doing this anymore". 80mg of methadone and a dope habit. She said she got sick as hell but never even thought (or so she said, im sure at some level she did, more on that in a sec) about getting high to alleviate her symptoms. You could just tell when talking to her that she was done. I cant really say that about too many other people ive met, including myself.

Its called "spontaneous remission" in treatment circles. These people will not use again regardless of the treatment, or even no treatment. I read a study that found that stats for addicts recovering in programs are about the same as addicts recovering without any treatment at all. The success of both were attributed to spontaneus remission. Wish it would happen to me.


On to another point, you would be totally surprised how much of the withdrawal you experience is exaggerated by your own mind. It's is the differnce between dependence and addiction. There are patients that are treated for chronic pain with high amounts of opiates that get ill when they don't have them but that's it, they have flu-like symptoms. It's the mental addiction that drives us crazy, it makes withdrawal seem unbearable. Opiate addiction changes your brain, your brain thinks you can not survive without opiates.
I feel that Ibogaine may elighten the addict, I highly doubt it makes any serious physical changes in the body. If it worked and eliminated opiate addiction, they would be using it to treat opiate addiction; believe that!

So totally true. Ive often wondered if I went into withdrawal without really knowing it somehow, would it really be that big a deal? I mentioned before im a total wuss with even the slightest symptoms, but I bet if I thought it was just the flu or something they wouldnt be 1/2 as bad as I make them out to be.

Opiate addiction really fucks with your head. Its basic psychological conditioning. Your sick. You feel like death, or have convinced yourself you feel like death. You do a shot, it all magically goes away. The instinctual part of your brain thats driven by our core needs just sees that you were sick, you did this drug, and you feel better. Sure you rationally know thats what caused you to get sick in the first place, but the basic selfish survival part of your brain (Freud called it the ID, but he was a cokehead) doesnt logistically think about things. It sees very basic survival concepts and tries to acheive them, you did something and it made you feel better therefore its good and you should do more. Pavlov's dogs at their finest. Same part of your brain that salvates at food even though you weigh 700lbs and eating will get you one more step towards death, gets physicaly attracted when you see that ex that drove you batshit crazy, tells you not to cut off your gangrene foot even though your trapped in the jungle and leaving it on will kill you...you get the idea.

Then do that process a few thousand, or tens of thousands of times over years and years. Thats not going to go away easily, if at all. Its probably why people relapse even when they have decades clean. A part of your brain is telling you its needed and not only is it not that bad, but perhaps even essential for survival.

I think this is one of the huge benefits of methadone or suboxone maintence. Since your never really getting sick you remove the conditioning aspect of addiction somewhat. The old stuff will still be there, but it allows you to see how to start living your life without making new conditioning behaviours.

Hopefully that all makes sense somewhat. I tend to say things in 1000 words that could been better said in 5.

[tch2296]

You're absolutely right about the way opiates change you, Alifaust.

I stopped using Suboxone (and Valium) c/t, andw went through 2 months of hell, terrible physical w/d's, I had to be hospitalized, and the anxiety and depression were crippling. I was a fucking mess.

However, by far, the hardest part for me is undoing that instinct that is so engrained in my mind at this point - that no matter what problems or disappointments I run into, it will all go away with a shot or a pill.

I found myself unable to live a normal life because, for me, a normal life included 200 mg hydrocodone a day. I became a rabid alcoholic for several months and got myself arrested twice within 2 weeks for drunk and disorderly and possesion. I was blacked out both times. I am still struggling to deal with the legal shit I have to deal with, I have warrants in 2 states now.

A couple weeks ago, I semi-relapsed, and have been using Heroin, Morphine, MDMA, and Cocaine. Also, I have begun to inject my drugs, something I never did (except a couple of times) before. I don't have a full-blown habit yet, but I am already at the point where without drugs, i feel shitty.

It had been around 4 months since I had touched an opiate, but I still felt terrible, I just can't live my life without a buzz, it seems.

I am prepping a speedball right now actually. I wish I could do something to stop this, but it seems it will never end.

Fuck it:cool:

[EleusisII]

More than one member here has described their "tiny suboxone habit" as a true nightmare to jump off of.

From the prolonged WDs, to the crippling anxiety, to the long as hell PAWS–I don't think Suboxone deserves to be discredited quite that quickly.

Well yes, you have a point. I try to avoid making judgementcalls on "how bad" something is, since it's pretty pointless, my point here was more that it's not a life and death situation, like a really heavy heroin-habit can be if you know what I mean. It's not like yu have to get off suboxone NOW, or you'll be dead in a couple of months.

[trainwrecker]

Sorry it took me so long to get back. Thank you for all the replies, 'related' or 'non-related' alike. I understand what you are saying Shelly, looking back on my post I easily understand any criticism.

I know there is no easy way to quit opiates, and seeking one is a fools errand. It just about minimizing the hell that it is bound to be, I think everyone can relate to that.

I am all about the easy way out, opiates kind of lend to that attitude. However I can't blame opiates for it, I was all about the easy way out way before I even started chipping. That being said I will probably stick with the easy way, staying on subs for the near term at least.

I'm coming up on ten years of opiate addiction, only two weeks totally clean in that whole time. Just exploring new options.

[Opiyum]

Well yes, you have a point. I try to avoid making judgementcalls on "how bad" something is, since it's pretty pointless, my point here was more that it's not a life and death situation, like a really heavy heroin-habit can be if you know what I mean. It's not like yu have to get off suboxone NOW, or you'll be dead in a couple of months.


It's way easier to deal with death and it's close proximity than it is to deal with a life time tethered to a medication.

I only say this because I have experience with both. A heavy heroin habit is a knock out punch from the champ. A suboxone habit is waking up every morning to a punch in the face by your little brother.
It's just a slow burning ineffectual little candle.

[Opiyum]

As much as I hate saying this, Shelley does make a good point, I normally don't agree with anything shelley says. If you really want off opiates and are willing to do whatever it takes than you really should accept that there is no way to kick that is going to be painless. You will ALWAYS have some withdrawal symptoms, it is the nature of the drug you are dependent on.
On to another point, you would be totally surprised how much of the withdrawal you experience is exaggerated by your own mind. It's is the differnce between dependence and addiction. There are patients that are treated for chronic pain with high amounts of opiates that get ill when they don't have them but that's it, they have flu-like symptoms. It's the mental addiction that drives us crazy, it makes withdrawal seem unbearable. Opiate addiction changes your brain, your brain thinks you can not survive without opiates.
I feel that Ibogaine may elighten the addict, I highly doubt it makes any serious physical changes in the body. If it worked and eliminated opiate addiction, they would be using it to treat opiate addiction; believe that!

You know to a point I realize a lot of it is in your head but there is no doubt that a heavy opiate addiction (esp. Methadone) is going to cause major changes in your gastrointestinal system. No matter what food you eat your digestion is screwed and if your not getting the the vital nutrients you need then all bio-chemical systems are going to suffer. Anxiety, insomnia, fatigue, aches pains etc etc.
It's this stuff (I assume I would be better off not knowing) that makes me wonder about iboga. Some of the side effects of long term opiate addiction can only be cured over time so how can iboga seemingly do the unimaginable over night?
Only thing I can think is it changes how we perceive pain in the same way opiates do. When you do an opiate and get high or even if you don't get high if your using it because of pain that pain isn't gone now. It's there, your just not tapped into it.
I'd really love to try iboga and not only have the money but have the ability(job allows lots of time off) to. I would just hate for it not to work. I sort of want to keep the mystery alive.

[underide]

i'm not going to start a war in this thread with a few very narrow-minded (or maybe just ignorant on this particular subject) posters who post stuff like "if it's too good to be true, then it is" attitude to this subject

But i 'll say this:

i think trainwrecker already had a thread on this subject where i did contribute what i already know fom firstly reading A LOT on Ibogaine and secondly meeting a Doctor (no, not some Voodoo doctor from Africa with some monkey skulls and chicken feathers, but an ACTUAL Doctor who had specialized in addiction-related tretment for years until he became n avid Ibogaine suppporter and now provides it himself)

So all i'm going to say is - I have met the doctor for my initial assessment last July, and we agreed that i would start dropping my methadone to at least 50mgs.....I only managed to drop 10 mgs in alll these months past - i'm now on 75mgs of 'done instead of 85, but the benzo ddiction has significantly slowd down my 'done drop - and i'm still on benzos.
It was planned that by about April/May, i would have dropped to about 45-50mgs, and then go 3-4 days with very small doses of ibogaine to hold me over.....
Then My Ibo treatment would have commenced

Like i say - everything is on hold due to my still-ongoing benzo addiction -i've dropped the benzo dose (several times) and even jumped cold turkey of about 80mgs of valium (back in october)
Nope i'm still on the damn benzo's

But my resolve to go through with the Ibogaine treatment is still tere - more than likely it will happen somewhere during late summer, HOPEFULLY (if my damn clinic does an outpatient benzo detox for me, the treatment may even happen somewher late May

But anyway - i'm getting off-track here
I have met the doctor - and he doesn't look to be some money chasing yahoo from the hood (at least to me)
I have also met and spoken with two of the patients personally (that live in our city) plus with one over the phone, and all tese people, having gone through the Ibo treatment at various times are still clean

And like Alifaust has mentioned - the fact (and the peope i've talked to mentioned this too) that even if a week ago you had a 100mg methadone habit plus a bag a gear a day on top for flavour, once you take Ibogaine in opiate Withdrawal, it only takes roughly 40mins to an hour or two for all or almost all of your dopesickness to go away to never return, UNLESS, ofcourse ypu decide to go back on the dope after a while - but that is YOUR OWN personal decision, and it appears that Ibogain for a lot of people even eliminates the need or want to ever return to shooting dope/smoking crack/popping benzos/drinking.

And the literature and facts are still there
Just look for them and they come from credible sources too, VERY credible, sources with Neurobiological tests done with iIbogaine and Opiate addicted subjects
It's not some Voodoo Pharmacology, it is Treatment
But like has been mentioned you should chose your source and your therapist carefulluy so you dont just end up eating caps full of flour provided by some hustler out to make a quick buck and then end up dying sick in withdrawal withh no money to even go out and score - these things have happened too

Oh and - to be continued.......
whenever i do come back from my own treament,, i would be able to talk about this with a little more credibility

[trainwrecker]

Thank you so much underide, I look forward to hearing the results. You are lucky to live in a county where you can get the treatment from a professional. I'm in the states and would have to travel to Canada or Mexico, which is part of the reason I haven't done it yet.

[Alifaust]

Thank you so much underide, I look forward to hearing the results. You are lucky to live in a county where you can get the treatment from a professional. I'm in the states and would have to travel to Canada or Mexico, which is part of the reason I haven't done it yet.

I dont think its the best scenario and there's a risk involved, but there is the option of getting ibogaine yourself and finding a sitter. You might be able to do both of these with a few posts to the ibogaine mailing list. DONT do it alone. Aside from the obvious risk of something happening with your health and no one being able to help you, Ibogaine causes ataxia and walking around is very difficult for a few hours after you take it. Plus afterward your exhausted and its nice to have someone get you food and stuff.

I posted on the ibogaine mailing list asking if there was anyone in my area that would be a sitter for me just to know all my options. A few responded, one of them an EMT that had said he'd done dozens of ibogaine sessions. It involved some travel and I decided to just have a friend help me.

Just throwing it out there. Going to a clinic would of been ideal but there was no way I could of afforded it.

Good luck with whatever you decide.....

[80oranges]

September 22 09' was the day i came home from mexico after taking ibogaine.

I had been an opiate addict for about 3-4 years. I didn't do well in high school because of drinking and smoking weed, so i had to go to a community college. In my first physics class i met a cool guy who gave me coke one time; later he told me he could also get me oxycontin's. I had only felt pain killers through prescriptions before this, but i already wanted more. Before I knew it I was buying at least 400 dollars a week worth of drugs. It didn't matter in the beginning because i didnt really spend that much money and i made about 400 dollars a week. Eventually it caught up with me.

Heroin was the next logical step. A lot cheaper than oxycontin's, probably less than half.

And it was only downhill from there. Eventually my parents found out, they couldn't believe what happened. I was able to talk my way out of it even after two possitive drug tests for opiates.

A few months later it all hit them. It was actually on christmas eve that they found out that one of there sons was a complete junky. They tried to talk to me, but it was useless . . . I was in complete denial. My parents new it was for sure when I started vomiting at work (My parents are successful business people and i worked for them).

They stuck with me.

I detoxed for about a month on a 20 bag a day habit. It wasn't pretty; and I'm glad to say the worst days of my life are over.

Then, six months went by and i started using again. It doesn't matter the reason, although it was a good one. My parents kicked me out of the house and I lived by the seat of my pants for about a month. Before I knew it they sent me to a rehab center in PA called Caron. THey had carefully chosen it because it is one of the top rehab centers in the country. To be honest with you it was complete bull shit, and FUCK THEM!!!! Caron's Yamp program has instructors that are the fucking devil.

I ended up leaving. The Caron counselors told my parents to dis-own me so i had no form of support. I went to foxwoods and played poker for a while and made a shit load of money. Even still i had a habit that was bigger than i could support so i went to mexico for ibogaine on my parents suggestion.

All I can say is that Ibogaine will torture you until you make the right decision.

It made me understand everything. And for that I am greatful



I thought I was fucking over. . . . At 21 years old and you can message me to see where I'm at now!!

[jacky]

I think that there is a reason the feds illegalized ibogaine without it really being an issue in the USA.

I think they illegalized iboga the plant, and ibogaine, without any real reports to the health dept. about its abuse in the USA,...
it was illegalized quickly...without any incidences of it being siezed in the USA.
there were no hospitalizations, overdoses, adulterations.
really...by the DEA's own standards, ibogaine and iboga, did not deserve to be illegalized based upon structural pharmacology alone.

I think iboga and ibogaine were hustled into schedule 1 because the CIA felt that it could be a threat to its covert drug dealing black ops that were going on associated with the iran contra scandal etc.

the drug/plant has been used in the USA for geriatrics before iboga was found to help addiction to some drugs. so it was hustled into schedule 1, while come components of the plant was used already in the USA pharma.

its totally rediculous that ibogaine/iboga was emergency scheduled..there were no incidences of it being used on the black market as of yet....there were no incidences of ibogaine being used as a replacement for other illicit drugs.
there were no structural similiaritys of ibogaine to any illicit compounds or pharmaceuticals that I know of.

basically ibogaine was blackballed and rolled into a virtual corner in this country.

the nice thing is, that most in law enforcement dont know what the hell the plant looks like.
plants in the apocynacea and tabernaemontana are very similiar in look, and even some of those actually contain small amounts of ibogaine and related alkaloids.

I think ibogaine research would be alot further along, if the whole issue didnt get knocked in the knees by the USA DEA.

there also hasnt been alot of research into using ibogaine and iboga, in low, low doses, alongside a persons opiate intake.
it could possibly, safely, be used in smaller doses, to potentiate the opiates/opioids a person is taking, and thus the person could use the alkaloid to potentiate their medication, to help them ween slowly off of the drug of choice...without taking the risks of the high dose iboga detox.

ibogaine was used in small doses safely for all sorts of medical and athletic reasons in the earlier part of the century.

I know a few people that swear by its effectiveness for detox purposes...
but I also know a few people that took their iboga cure, and flushed it down the toilet because they were expecting a friggin miracle. just becuase they felt a little discomfort, and still had some minor cravings, and really, werent ready to quit.

I really really wished I lived in Canada sometimes. I wouldnt have had plenty of opportunity to research the lower and even higher doses of iboga/ibogaine by now. its expensive...but not so expensive that one couldnt do extensive research....at the price of what some vendors make the rootbark powder avialable, or the pure isolate, a person could have many days worth of low doses, or make a few high dose regimines possible.

I hope soon that the bwiti initiations being done, allow someone to come to the USA, and start a small bwiti ritual church.
with the freedom of religion restoration act....a group of people could treat addicts in the USA, if they were doing so under the guise of a true religious experience.
if the iboga was siezed coming into the country, its a good chance the the judges would allow the church to proceed with their worship and importation of a schedule 1 substance....much as they did allow a schedule 1 substance in ayahuasca to be continued to use.
actually, a landmark case in my opinion has just been awarded in this case of religious ayahuasca use.
the path for iboga to come to the USA, despite being an illicit substance is better than ever.

[Opiyum]

What I originally had typed here was a little backwards in that I was thinking that it was congress with the support of the psychiatric community that Ibogaine was scheduled but looked over some material I have and I got it backwards. Dozens of doctors protested it being scheduled along with all the other psychedelics.
I don't know what you mean by emergency because it was actually scheduled at the same time that all the other pshycedelics were in the 1970 or 71 controlled substance act.
I kinda point the finger at leary and all the other misfits because with him throwing off all the research principles he also made it look like the scientists themselves were losing control of the drugs. So you have this PHD basically advertising LSD to the common man and then you throw in the media sensationilizing these drugs most of which, big surprise were fabrications.
I wouldn't say I'm on Huxleys side saying that Psychedelics are only for the elite and that the common man shouldn't have access but what Leary did was totally irresponsible and fucked everyone including the common man in the end.
To the point that now the greatest of all Hallucinogens is vary hard to come buy and if you do come buy it it is exteremly expensive.
It's just what happens when congress looks at things in such a black and white manner. It was obvious that ibogaine was different yet it was lumped in with mushrooms and LSD and everything else.
If Ibogaine wasn't scheduled with all the rest than thats news to me but I wouldnt be surprised either.

[hovadagod]

emergency scheduled? That's insane. You think that hte CIA knew it cured heroin addiction Jacky? I could believe that. Who was the president when it was scheduled and I'd love to know the case you are referring to.

I am totally scared of hallucinogens because I've done them too much and I now focus on the negatives but if the low dose stuff works that would be amazing. Screw therapy if you have access like that vis-a-vis iboga. I could see myself doing it but I know I'd be scared going in. Maybe if I had benzos and I knew it wouldn't be overwhelmingly scary. I just hate that stress of not being able to keep my shit together.

Also, bupe blocks salvia so hallucinogens and opi's may have more in common than we realize.

[Opiyum]

emergency scheduled? That's insane. You think that hte CIA knew it cured heroin addiction Jacky? I could believe that. Who was the president when it was scheduled and I'd love to know the case you are referring to.

I am totally scared of hallucinogens because I've done them too much and I now focus on the negatives but if the low dose stuff works that would be amazing. Screw therapy if you have access like that vis-a-vis iboga. I could see myself doing it but I know I'd be scared going in. Maybe if I had benzos and I knew it wouldn't be overwhelmingly scary. I just hate that stress of not being able to keep my shit together.

Also, bupe blocks salvia so hallucinogens and opi's may have more in common than we realize.

Mixing benzos and Ibogaine is not reccomended and can result in death in the most extreme cases. It is very important that anyone taking benzos be stabilize prior to taking the iboga and the actual treatment will go a lot better if none is taken 24 hours prior to the dose.
Another great example as to why it being illegal is so bad. If someone gets ahold of some Ibogaine HCl or that Lamberene shit or whatever the french called it...anyway if someone gets some you would logically think benzos would help with the anxiety sometimes felt with hallucinogens and certainly felt during ibogaine treatment but not with this stuff.
Because of ibogaines high potentiating effects if the benzos were taken after the effects wore off you could actually over dose and if not that you will have ruined the treatment and will most likely come out the other side with cravings. No opiate withdrawal but cravings for sure. It would be especially bad for someone who had no tolerance to begin with when it comes to benzos.
That was one of the things I asked a few clinics about was it if they would give benzos during or after a session to relieve any anxiety I might experience. This is basically what they said to me or as best I can remember it.

[jacky]

bupe might block salvia divinorum for some people.....but in my experience, I used buprenorphine for months on end, and would use salvia divinorum in small doses to help me resist using more buprenorphine at night.
the bup was giving me insomnia to a degree, among other reasons....so if I took a late night dose because I was feeling lethargic and achy, I might suffer having little sleep.

the salvia divinorum seemed slightly blunted by the bup....but it was definitely active for me.
the salvia divinorum helped me fall asleep, avoid re dosing on buprenorphine, and in the latter stages of its effect, say after 10 minutes, I get sometimes profound pain relief from salvia divinorum alone....but usually most noticeably in my legs.

actually at times I felt that buprenorphine mixed with salvia divinorum, made the salvia experience a bit more tolerable and euphoric. there was not as much of a negative somatic effect, as far as the tactile experience is concerned.
for me, it seemed that buprenorphine blunted some of the stronger negative physical aspects of the salvia divinorum..while still allowing for strong psychoactive mind warping as usual.

...
back to the ibogaine substance...
the book "the ibogaine story...the staten island project" is a great book to read on the subject.

I dont have proof the CIA wanted ibogaine illegal because it might cut into the covert drug dealing that was funding covert operations in various areas of the world...but it seems likely to me.
for really no clear reason, ibogaine was hustled into emergency scheduling.
and that was it.
really, there was no incident that I am aware of, that led to its illegalization.

also, consider that many psychoactive plants are not illegal in this country...the DEA seems to have interest in controlling many synthetics...and the few big time narcotic producing plants...but for the most part, many many psychoactives, many that contain scheduled compounds...remain legal for possesion.

so why was ibogaine illegalized so quickly?
I dont think anyone knows....I dont think the DEA at that time followed protocol for making ibogaine illegal....and I think they scheduled it into schedule 1, at a time when it was still being used, if rarely, for geriatric treatments.
much like they scheduled cannabis into schedule 1, even though it has been used as an approved medication for some people in the USA for many years.

the story of ibogaine potential hit the newspapers in NY, and within a short time, iboga, ibogaine were illegal to possess.

looking back on that time, and what the CIA was doing covertly, I just have a feeling that the plant was singled out for its potential to heal, not its potential to do society damage.
because the DEA didnt have any statistics on iboga/ibogaine abuse/related deaths at all in the USA. none, nada....zip.
at least this is my understanding.
I dont even think the DEA hardly ever made any iboga/ibogaine busts...if at all.

[hovadagod]

I think that hallucinogens challenge the status quo in more ways than undercutting CIA drug ops.