What if a drug tax made it legal?

[StinkyPickle]

Since 1991, Connecticut's had a system set up where you can pay taxes on illicit drugs. The tax depends on what you purchased. You then get a small stamp that you affix to your dope. If you are caught with dope with this stamp on it, you'll still get charged for possession, but you won't have to pay the fines surrounding the charge. The fine you get for a drug charge (not bail, separate fine) is actually a tax for the amount in your possession. This "tax" gives CT police an excuse to impound your car or take your fucking house if they feel it is worth the amount of your bill. So my hypothetical situation for you is this: What if paying the tax made it completely legal to carry and use your dope? Would you pay the tax every time, or would you say fuck it? http://www.ct.gov/drs/lib/drs/publications/pubsip/ip99(20.1).pdf

http://antiquecannabisbook.com/chap20/Connecticut.jpg

[pinn3d]

I voted yes..... I would much rather pay a tax and have my drugs be legal than to risk getting arrested at some point....

Now, Do you mean that drugs would be regulated, and taxed... so you could go to Eckerds to get your dope?

Or would we still have to buy from dealers, and then just pay a tax on what we buy?

Cuz I would rather have it fully regulated, and taxed.... cuz then prices would go down anyway.... even with the tax, once drugs are legal, they would be cheaper..(coming off the black market)....

But I know for some , maybe a lot of people, half of the fun is in the hunt.... scoping the streets, looking for "the man"......you've heard the expression 'getting high for scoring'?

So I could understand that some people wouldn't want it fully regulated....


*Edit: If this ONLY makes drugs more expensive, I don't think I would be for it... But If it made them fully legal and available.... it would be cheaper anyway, so I WOULD be for that....

[nick]

The theory is that,even if drugs were taxed strongly,they'd still be cheaper if legalised.

Anyway,it's hypothetical.

[rockbottom]

hell yes id pay--all they have to do is treat it lik alcohol and ciggeretts--sure some will die but Etoh and cigs kill millions--a few deaths never got in the way of profits--but it would probably ruin the prison system--so ill never see it in my lifetime---great fantasy though

[Larry]

what if pigs could fly..

[pinn3d]

I always entertained the idea that, if someone WANTED to be on drugs... they would just see a specialist, i.e. an 'opiate specialist' who you would go over your drug history with, with the full open understanding that you do drugs recreationally .... Then you and the specialist would together write a script for an opiate that you both feel would be appropriate... in that it would be effective at producing a euphoric high, and then you would get the script filled!! Then you would come back in for a follow- up and discuss whether you want to try a new drug, or if you are happy with your dose, etc.... and it would all be done in the name of safety, responisbility, and integrity...

[StinkyPickle]

I voted yes..... I would much rather pay a tax and have my drugs be legal than to risk getting arrested at some point....

Now, Do you mean that drugs would be regulated, and taxed... so you could go to Eckerds to get your dope?

Or would we still have to buy from dealers, and then just pay a tax on what we buy?

Cuz I would rather have it fully regulated, and taxed.... cuz then prices would go down anyway.... even with the tax, once drugs are legal, they would be cheaper..(coming off the black market)....

But I know for some , maybe a lot of people, half of the fun is in the hunt.... scoping the streets, looking for "the man"......you've heard the expression 'getting high for scoring'?

So I could understand that some people wouldn't want it fully regulated....


*Edit: If this ONLY makes drugs more expensive, I don't think I would be for it... But If it made them fully legal and available.... it would be cheaper anyway, so I WOULD be for that....


IN this hypothetical, drugs are still illegal. You'd still have to go to a dealer, the only thing that would change is you couldn't get in trouble with the law only if you paid your tax and had the stamp affixed to your score. It's basically brownie points for walking into a place and voluntarily paying taxes on something. You could never pay the tax and never get busted, but there's always the chance of getting caught.

[rockbottom]

they had a MJ tax stamp--but made it impossible to get--just like they have amachine gun tax stamp that no one can get--from67-70 MJ was legal as Timothy Leary pointed out that to get a stamp u had to have the weed--which made u illegal bcause u had the weed with no stamp--but u needed the weed to get the stamp--unconstitutional-------but drug scheduling did away with that

[pinn3d]

IN this hypothetical, drugs are still illegal. You'd still have to go to a dealer, the only thing that would change is you couldn't get in trouble with the law only if you paid your tax and had the stamp affixed to your score. It's basically brownie points for walking into a place and voluntarily paying taxes on something. You could never pay the tax and never get busted, but there's always the chance of getting caught.
Yeah I'm not into that idea as much..... cuz I could basically get ripped off in a shitty deal w/ really cut shit, and then pay a tax on top of that?? Nah... If I'm paying taxes I want to KNOW what is in my dope--- I want to be able to measure out in mg's how much dope I am taking, knowin that it is PURE----

I guess it would depend on how much the tax is..... If it was very reasonable, I would be down.... but if it was too much, I would rather take my chances.....

Sorry-- I should have clarified this before I voted----

[StinkyPickle]

I just looked at the specific tax amounts you'd have to pay.

Q. What is the tax rate?
A. The tax depends on the drug type:
• Marijuana is taxed at $3.50 per gram or portion thereof;
• Controlled substances sold by weight are taxed at
$200 per gram or portion thereof;
• Controlled substances in tablet or capsule form are
taxed at $2,000 for each 50 dosage unit or portion thereof.


LOL!!! 200 a gram for dope and 2k for 50 doses of pills? FUCK THAT SHIT. It should be legal to have it with those prices. The only thing you would avoid is getting your property taken from you when you get arrested. I MIGHT consider paying taxes on weed if I got a huge ass tax return at the end of the year.

[nick]

I always entertained the idea that, if someone WANTED to be on drugs... they would just see a specialist, i.e. an 'opiate specialist' who you would go over your drug history with, with the full open understanding that you do drugs recreationally .... Then you and the specialist would together write a script for an opiate that you both feel would be appropriate... in that it would be effective at producing a euphoric high, and then you would get the script filled!! Then you would come back in for a follow- up and discuss whether you want to try a new drug, or if you are happy with your dose, etc.... and it would all be done in the name of safety, responisbility, and integrity...

Exactly,this is decriminalisation and I'm in favour of legalising soft drugs,but decriminalising hard drugs.

I don't think drugs are dangerous per se,but in the hands of joe bubblegum they're deadly.

[Narkotikon]

I wouldn't have any problems paying a tax or registering with the state via a card or something if it made use of narcotics legal and made pharm-grade narcotics legally available to me. I wouldn't have any problem with that at all.

What I do have a problem with is buying street stuff and being hastled and unsure of what I'm getting until I practically put it into my body. And also the fear of being incriminated simply for using a chemical. It's my body.

[pinn3d]

I just looked at the specific tax amounts you'd have to pay.

Q. What is the tax rate?
A. The tax depends on the drug type:
• Marijuana is taxed at $3.50 per gram or portion thereof;
• Controlled substances sold by weight are taxed at
$200 per gram or portion thereof;
• Controlled substances in tablet or capsule form are
taxed at $2,000 for each 50 dosage unit or portion thereof.


LOL!!! 200 a gram for dope and 2k for 50 doses of pills? FUCK THAT SHIT. It should be legal to have it with those prices. The only thing you would avoid is getting your property taken from you when you get arrested. I MIGHT consider paying taxes on weed if I got a huge ass tax return at the end of the year.
Fuck that shit, indeed.... that's a bit ridiculous, methinks....

I'm with Nick... I'd rather see decriminalization of hard drugs, and full legalization of Cannabis....

[SHELLEY]

i'm not paying twice for my drugs
jail isn't THAT bad

[erica]

i'm not paying twice for my drugs
jail isn't THAT bad

But if they were legal, even WITH the tax you'd be paying a LOT less - the reason they are so expensive is because they are illegal and on the "black market".

[runormal]

The possession charge would still be there right? So if a college student who was doing pills knew that they only had 'x' amount of money for tuition, dorms, etc and they paid the tax to avoid getting hit with a bigger bill that could disrupt their schooling, well that kinda makes sense.

The only problem is that you are still stuck with the possession charge which will be just as harmful when you're applying for jobs. Yes you would get to finish school (in this example) but you'd still have the same record either way as I understand it. So will your degree out weigh the record???

I wonder if police when encountering someone with these 'stamps' treat them any differently? "Oh this guy wants to play by the rules and means well with the stamps so lets go easier on him." Or could it work against someone if they think some junkie is trying to get around the law and outsmart them. That could end up turning ugly. Great question!

[poonwhalla]

^^ I doubt the police would go easier on you. Stamp or not they still will get another bust to hit quota under their belt, even though they say they have no quota.

[ka11ink]

I always entertained the idea that, if someone WANTED to be on drugs... they would just see a specialist, i.e. an 'opiate specialist' who you would go over your drug history with, with the full open understanding that you do drugs recreationally .... Then you and the specialist would together write a script for an opiate that you both feel would be appropriate... in that it would be effective at producing a euphoric high, and then you would get the script filled!! Then you would come back in for a follow- up and discuss whether you want to try a new drug, or if you are happy with your dose, etc.... and it would all be done in the name of safety, responisbility, and integrity...

I kind of like tha thought pinned.

[Paregoric Kid]

no, taxation is theft.
I am in favor of drug lotteries, drug lotteries would involve no coercion and would be fun and profitable.

[Narkotikon]

no, taxation is theft.
I am in favor of drug lotteries, drug lotteries would involve no coercion and would be fun and profitable.

Like if you have the matching number you get the jackpot: a kilo of smack or something like that? That would be fun for the winner, but would suck for everyone else.

[Opiyum]

I'm paying upwards of six dollars per pack of smokes now (unless I find BOGO's) so I figure I would pay for the taxed dope when I could of course if there was cheaper dope around that wasn't taxed I would most likely buy that first. To hell with the consequences.

[SHELLEY]

no one has brought up the fact that
the govt apparently decided to tax something
that they had absolutely no part in producing
what the fuck is that about??? that is some bullshit right there

that would be like if i went to the grocery store
and decided that anyone who buys a gallon of milk
has to pay me two bucks
although i didn't produce the milk, i didn't package it, i didn't market it, i didn't sell it,
i had nothing at all to do with the milk
i just stepped in and decided "hey look, milk! y'all should pay me"

american state govts taxing drugs that aren't made in america?
i believe it, of course, but what a bunch of stupid shit
not yr hypothetical, i mean the real deal with the "tax stamps"
i believe you can only tax things that, ya know, belong to you somehow:rolleyes:

[pharmboy]

If it made them COMPLETLY legal I would pay up. Hell ya.

Sounds like a good idea actually to me.

[nick]

No disrespect guys,but just who are the three fools that voted that they were so low key no one knew what they were doing?

and the three of you who suggested the cops bring it on aren't too bright either.

[StinkyPickle]

No disrespect guys,but just who are the three fools that voted that they were so low key no one knew what they were doing?

and the three of you who suggested the cops bring it on aren't too bright either.

lol well if they told you it would no longer be "low-key"

[nick]

lol well if they told you it would no longer be "low-key"

True,but let's face it,just because I don't know doesn't mean NO ONE knows.In my experience some one always finds out eventually.No man is an island and all that.

[pinn3d]

^^^^ Well I live on an island-- with no cops!!! its true! but no i voted YES, so i cant help ya with who voted for 'im low key, or 'bring it on, pigs'....

But yeah, living on an island with no cops is nice.....great hideout from the 'real world'....

[StinkyPickle]

When I made that poll option, it was more in reference to being under the radar to LE. Like the person who goes and visits the old lady in the neighborhood, does some simple house repairs or something, and she gives them half a bottle of oxy's in return.

P.S. You KNOW Shelley chose 'bring it on, pigs". As soon as I looked at the option after typing it I said to myself "Yup, that's a Shelley response"

[nhop]

I'm in favour of legalising soft drugs,but decriminalising hard drugs.



Why not legalize both soft and hard drugs? It is only through legalization that we can end the black market association with certain drugs. If they are only decriminalized, you would still have a vibrant black market in charge of the distribution of these drugs, with all the risks & negative consequences that entails.

[nick]

Why not legalize both soft and hard drugs? It is only through legalization that we can end the black market association with certain drugs. If they are only decriminalized, you would still have a vibrant black market in charge of the distribution of these drugs, with all the risks & negative consequences that entails.

Why? Ok................. I have no faith in 99% of the human race.

[SeVeN]

no one has brought up the fact that
the govt apparently decided to tax something
that they had absolutely no part in producing
what the fuck is that about??? that is some bullshit right there

that would be like if i went to the grocery store
and decided that anyone who buys a gallon of milk
has to pay me two bucks
although i didn't produce the milk, i didn't package it, i didn't market it, i didn't sell it,
i had nothing at all to do with the milk
i just stepped in and decided "hey look, milk! y'all should pay me"

american state govts taxing drugs that aren't made in america?
i believe it, of course, but what a bunch of stupid shit
not yr hypothetical, i mean the real deal with the "tax stamps"
i believe you can only tax things that, ya know, belong to you somehow:rolleyes:

Shelley, when you buy ANYTHING, the government is collecting tax on it. Well except drugs and other black market items.:p Why be so suprised or outraged if the government put its hands in this too?

[SeVeN]

Why? Ok................. I have no faith in 99% of the human race.

Im sitting at about 99.9% myself.

[alowishus]

I admit I haven't read any of the posts except the 1st, so I don't know if anyone has brought it up but it was in the '30's I think that they came up w/ the stamp act. It's all just bullshit, You can have the drugs if you have the stamp but you can't get the drugs w/o the stamp & the g-ment was in NO WAY giving out any stamp.

His holiness Mr Tim Leary, fought the law in the '60's and had it overturned as it made you a criminal to get the stamp. The Wiki page on it is HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937_Marijuana_Tax_Act)


Sorry Pickles the fire cat but I still aint voting 'cuz it still don't matter.


Now I'll go back and read and see if I'm just repeating others.....

Yeah Rock brought it up but no one even read it it seems.....

[pinn3d]

Why? Ok................. I have no faith in 99% of the human race.

Im sitting at about 99.9% myself.


It's true---- if you gave any Joe Schmo access to hard drugs over the counter..... there would invariably be too many fuck-ups ruining it for the rest of us.......people with mental issues buying loads of methamphetamine and wigging out...... violent people buying coke and booze........naive young people buying heroin and ODing...........

There would have to be some sort of regulatory process to get your drugs..... see a 'specialist' , or doctor or whatever.... a chance to exhibit your patience, intelligence, and general sensibility..... you wouldn't have to already be addicted, or in pain.... it would simply be your RIGHT to access drugs...... but you would need to open to discussion/ educated opinion......I would have no problem having sessions with a psychiatrist/doctor to go over the safety issues, the info on how the drug works, whatever.... my reasons for using , etc..... just to exhibit that while yes I want to have fun, I want to be safe and not harm anyone else, too.....and I want to understand the drugs I am taking and how they affect my body and mind....

Anyone who would be unwilling to speak with a professional or is simply too impatient and just 'wants the drugs now, dammit' maybe shouldnt be allowed to have drugs in the first place.....

[digby]

The whole idea of trying to control something that can't be controlled, be it with taxes or be it with laws, is just backwards thinking IMO. As a country, we should have learned a great deal from alcohol. While alcohol is taxed heavily and so at least workable in that regard, can you imagine what it would be like if buying a fifth of your favorite scotch required a doctor's prescription? We have already seen that outlawing it didn't work, which left only control by way of "control of manufacture" and "control of sale" - all done with licensing. Then tax the whole kit and kaboodle as much as people will stand for.

But the sad thing about all this is that they can eliminate manufacture and sale any time they want by more restrictive licensing. Or they can tax it so heavily that no one but the very wealthy can afford to buy liquor. Either way, we are letting the government control what we drink and what we eat, which can only end in disaster. In other countries, they are trying to control water consumption the same way they control drugs here. When money and greed along with power are allowed to be used to control the basic needs in life, you have the recipe for the end of a free society and life as we know it.

I'm a firm believer in warning labels, but that is all the government should be able to do in regard to what we put into our bodies. People should know they are poisoning themselves if they eat or drink something that is not good for them. But they should then be allowed to poison themselves if they so choose. What is next - restricting foods that are not vitamin enriched (enriched for a price by a fortune 500 company)? Not allowing you to drink water that has not been purified at government purification plants? We have already started down that slippery slope - the only difference is in degree, which will change for the worse in time.

[Narkotikon]

I'm more in favor of ending the drug war, spending that money on education and rehab for people who want it, and then the rest of the money on maintenance programs for people who are already addicted. They'll teach sex ed in high school, but they can't teach a harm-reduction class? That's fucked up.

Not that it would help everyone. Some people are just going to do what they want to do, and you can't save / help them. It's a matter of natural selection. Do I think that people should die because of not being able to access clean, legal drugs that are pharm grade and having to resort to dirty street shit that they have no idea what they're putting into their bodies, or from being unable to get clean works or whatever? NO! But do I feel sorry for people who put whatever pill someone gives them into their body without knowing anything about it? Hell no!

I mean, it's a shame that people have to OD, but when you're too lazy to do a ten second pill search online, or whatever, I really have little sympathy. And I'm also sick of parents and people blaming drugs for their kid's death. It's sad when any kid dies, but sometimes kids are just ignorant and stupid. I'm sure they didn't mean to OD, but it happens. Drugs aren't toys. You should take it seriously if you're going to do them.

I just figure if I'm going to put something into my body, I would at least like to educate myself a little bit as to what I'm doing. Other people aren't like that. They'll gobble down anything and everything you give them without even verifiying it is what the other person says it is. You can't trust people like that. Do a pill search. Call a number. Something. It's natural selection. How else can the species evolve if we have all of these laws saving stupid people from themselves?

And I"m not trying to suggest that people are invincible, or that education will always protect you. But, yeah, I'd rather than an ounce of education than none at all. I just think it's really unwise and stupid and irresponsible for people to do shit that could kill them and 1.) ruin it for people who do take it seriously; and 2.) not take the time to try to save / help / educate themselves; and 3.) people using the decisions and unwise actions of those people to persecute / punish the people who do take it seriously.

[youwonhundred]

what if pigs could fly..

Then the news would show "winged bacon alerts!" along with weather.

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

One thing I do wanna say is that I'm tired of seeing good people(and the not so good as well,.. yes I love em all :p) OD on H because they won't find anything for 3-4 days get some good stuff and think they can do their reg dose, or decide to do a fatty, not aware that their tolerance has dropped significantly. Then they do the shot and BAM floors them and they OD.

This same shit happened to Bradley Nowell from Sublime....R.I.P.

If that was off topic I appologize.....

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

-but it would probably ruin the prison system--so ill never see it in my lifetime---great fantasy though

Yep, totally agree bro

[SHELLEY]

P.S. You KNOW Shelley chose 'bring it on, pigs". As soon as I looked at the option after typing it I said to myself "Yup, that's a Shelley response"

hahaha i am pretty fucking predictable sometimes huh?

[SHELLEY]

It's true---- if you gave any Joe Schmo access to hard drugs over the counter..... there would invariably be too many fuck-ups ruining it for the rest of us.......people with mental issues buying loads of methamphetamine and wigging out...... violent people buying coke and booze........naive young people buying heroin and ODing...........

Anyone who would be unwilling to speak with a professional or is simply too impatient and just 'wants the drugs now, dammit' maybe shouldnt be allowed to have drugs in the first place.....

what is happening now?
people with mental issues buy loads of meth and wig out
violent people buy coke and booze
naive yo9ung people buy heroin and od
people drive drunk and run over kids on tricycles
whats the difference?
if you are gonna do hard drugs, legality doesn't matter- you're gonna do it
if you are NOT gonna do hard drugs, legality still doesn't matter- you're not gonna do it

and i am totally unwilling to speak with a "professional" to get hard drugs
what, a crack professional? i think i'm a crack professional by now
what's wrong with just wanting the drugs now?
that's a stupid thing to say

[nick]

what is happening now?
people with mental issues buy loads of meth and wig out
violent people buy coke and booze
naive yo9ung people buy heroin and od
people drive drunk and run over kids on tricycles
whats the difference?
if you are gonna do hard drugs, legality doesn't matter- you're gonna do it
if you are NOT gonna do hard drugs, legality still doesn't matter- you're not gonna do it

and i am totally unwilling to speak with a "professional" to get hard drugs
what, a crack professional? i think i'm a crack professional by now
what's wrong with just wanting the drugs now?
that's a stupid thing to say

It's not a stupid thing to say.Professionalism is about subjectivity as well as knowledge.

[SHELLEY]

It's not a stupid thing to say.Professionalism is about subjectivity as well as knowledge.

ok, now i guess i'm the stupid one
because i don't know what that means :o