Possible FDA Ban On Propoxyphene

[Narkotikon]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090130/ap_on_he_me/darvon

Apparently the FDA is considering banning propoxyphene, the "narcotic" ingredient in Darvon / Darvocet. On one hand this might be a good thing, as it is pretty useless, and is toxic and just "odd" at higher doses, kind of dissociative. On the other hand, I don't like it when they ban any narcotics, because I'm sure they'd love to find non-addictive painkillers as good as, if not better, than morphine.

I've always thought growing old would mean better drugs. I don't want to be seventy or so and on my deathbed with something effective, but that provides no high. Can't you grow old gracefully high anymore?

[Indy]

I wouldn't mind. I think tramadol should replace darvocet as the "shitty" narcotic pain reliever; it's more effective, more enjoyable, and generally less addictive, plus it doesn't cause your heart to go numb. On top of that it's unscheduled federally. Believe it or not, to people who don't have a tolerance to opioids, tramadol is actually QUITE effective at treating pain. And something about the way it works, it doesn't cause tolerance nearly as quickly. I was able to use tramadol for a long time without ever having any noticeable tolerance increase. If only i knew back then to just stay on the tramadol.

But yeah, darvocet is shit. I was grateful for it once though; i took ten of them (minus the APAP), and it got rid of my withdrawal pretty well. It was kind of scary , it made my lips numb, i thought i was gonna have a stroke or something. Other than that every time i've come across it it's been with the utmost disdain.

[Narkotikon]

If only i knew back then to just stay on the tramadol.



Not to bring up bad issues or anything, but didn't GoR start out with Trammies? I think I remember her talking about them a lot when I first joined. Then she progressively dabbled in other things I think. Anyway, perhaps she can be the new poster child touting the effects of Tramadol v. Propoxyphene? :D

I'm not sure where I stand on the Tramadol thing. I didn't try them until I had a tolerance, so I thought they sucked. They were only good to alleviate bordome and stress until I could find something better. But, if a person didn't already have a tolerance, I can see them being more effective.

The problem with tramadol though is that at higher doses it can cause Serotonin Syndrome, especially in conjunction with SSRI's. Although I guess that's about the same as having toxic metabolites from too much Proxyphene.

If I had to choose a "weak" and effective opiate for pain control, I'd probably pick codeine as being my preferred choice, given the options of Proxyphene, Tramadol, or Codeine.

[ReadyMade]

This could be a good thing. With Propoxyphene off the market, hopefully more doctors, especially those who practice in the ER, will start writing low dose hydrocodone or hell, anything else but Demerol or Tramadol, for mild to moderate pain, because everybody knows what a bummer it is to get a script for those big pink horse pills :(

I also think they will eventually ban Tramadol once they see that the drug itself does more bad than good, imo. So lets all (trammy haters) hope that this will be another small step for FDA, and another giant step for the us opiate lovers.

[Narkotikon]

True about limiting their options / forcing them to prescribe "better" things. I will say I'd take Demerol any day of the week though. I know it's got a shitty oral bioavailability, but you can prep them easily for other ROA's.

[Synack]

fucking awesome, it's about time... this shit is worthless, and it's risks greatly outweigh it's benefits..

[Paregoric Kid]

this is total bullshit. are they banning just the racemic propoxyphene and leaving dextropropoxyphene on the shelves or are they both getting banned. this stuff helps a lot of people out who are in minor pain or are in wd. this is not good news at all.
this isn't a safety issue at all, it is assholes with an agenda this time known as Public Citizen. these same nutjobs tried to get darvon banned in the 70s. they don't like that people use it to kill themselves or overdose on it. are we going to start banning anything that could possibly be used to aid suicide? are we going to control water because you could overdose on it? this is fucking BULLSHIT!

[Papa Verine]

I couldn't care less.

The very first time I tried Ultram (Tramadol) I did not have any tolerance to opiates. I remember my friend went to the ER for something and this is what they gave him for pain. I'd never heard of it so I assumed it was shit. I was so (over)confident that I knew every good pill's name, I didn't even bother reading the info or looking it up. I *knew* it wasn't an opiate.

So, I took 4 or 5 anyway, and I was pleasantly suprised. I felt the Opio-high, and it was comparable to codeine, which was OK back then because I had no tolerance. I liked the shit. Only then did I go look it up and find out it was a weak opioid.

Maybe I liked it so much because I wasn't expecting anything.

[smackem]

The FDA is in the pocket of big pharma. This just so happens to coincide perfectly with the release of a new drug that will take its place. It starts with a T and is more like tramadol than anything... I can't remeber the name. There are trials going on right now for it. clinicaltrials.gov



tapentadol, Thats the name, tapentadol

[erica]

Although I find that propoxyphene is absolutely useless, I don't think it should be banned. I'm sure it works for some people without a tolerance...It worked for me at 16 when I didn't have a tolerance.
They really have no legitimate reason to ban it. It's not like it's being severely abused! Ugh, I the FDA.

[SeVeN]

Well I don't like the idea of the FDA stepping in too much. Stopping tainted goods is fine with me. They should stop there.

As far as propoxyphen; good, get that shit outta here.

[Indy]

The FDA is in the pocket of big pharma. This just so happens to coincide perfectly with the release of a new drug that will take its place. It starts with a T and is more like tramadol than anything... I can't remeber the name. There are trials going on right now for it. clinicaltrials.gov



tapentadol, Thats the name, tapentadol


TBH i have high hopes for tapentadol....no offense or anything, lol. I'll probably never get to try it anyways.

[Paregoric Kid]

don't count on tapentadol replacing propoxyphene. it appears tapentadol will be for pain that is more severe than the range of pain propoxyphene is used to treat. darvon/darvocet is for minor pain, tapentadol is closer to morphine in strength, from what I've heard. I'd say tramadol and codeine will slowly replace its use. hopefully not, lets hope they just do more safety studies and possibly add more warnings or tell doctors to be more careful in prescribing it, but not actually take it off the market.

[Narkotikon]

The tapentadol thing seems interesting, from the little I read about it. Is it going to be like tramadol and bupe in that it's only a partial agonist? From what I read it only said it supposedly is an agonist at the mu opiate receptor and functions as a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.

I think I changed my mind. I don't like the idea of them taking propoxyphene off the market, ONLY because I don't like the government limiting doctor's options. Do I like propoxyphene or think it's effective if you have even the slightest of tolerances? No. But, I think that anytime they limit options, it hurts people. For some, I can see how it would be useful.

I was also reading up on Paregoric v. Laudanum / Tincture of Opium the other night. I didn't really realize that Paregoric is a lot weaker than Laudanum / Tincture. I also didn't know that the Tincture is commonly deodorized / denarcotized (the narcoteine is removed by a process).

The only reason I mention this is that they still allow the manufacture and use of Paregoric and Tincture of Opium, although I'd say it's probably pretty rare now. So, if they still allow that, why not keep propoxyphene? I'm sure that Darvon / Darvocet is more frequently used than opium preparations. And I know they say their reasoning isn't because it's obsolete (although it kind of is saying that in a way, that it's not as effective and is more dangerous), but I just don't like when choices are limited. If anything, they should just increase warnings.

As for Paregoric, how it was described and how low the morphine content seems, I'd rather have pod tea. But, Tincture of Opium did sound interesting. I think they said it could be used for pain, and even neo-natal w/d (or was that Paregoric? Probably since it's morphine content is lower, although I forget), but is almost exclusively used for severe diarreah now. Does anyone have any experience with Tincture of Opium? I once made a crude from of Laudanum with brandy and pods, but I'm sure the Tincture would be more potent.

[Paregoric Kid]

tramadol metabolizes into O-desmethyltramadol. both O-desmethyltramadol and tapentadol are full mu agonists as well as having SNRI properties.

[Indy]

tramadol metabolizes into O-desmethyltramadol. both O-desmethyltramadol and tapentadol are full mu agonists as well as having SNRI properties.

thank you.

[Narkotikon]

tramadol metabolizes into O-desmethyltramadol. both O-desmethyltramadol and tapentadol are full mu agonists as well as having SNRI properties.

Thanks. I didn't realize tramadol was metabolized to a full agonist. I've always heard / thought of it as a partial agonist. Interesting about the tapentadol too.

[Morphus]

Ehh, propox ain't all bad........I remember this one time this pal of mine and I did our usual routine, crank and booze all nite friday, and come morning I know I was feeling horrendous, anyways I go to the bathroom and look in his medicine chest and lo and behold there was this giant bottle of like 100 darvocets. Turns out this guys kid had gotten em from somewhere and his Dad (my friend) had taken them away from him. I suggested we eat a few , and sure enough we were feeling better in just a few minutes, good enough to get on the phone, muster up some more crank and scrape some moss off the guys roof among other household chores, thats what we did when we got high. We'd pop 3-4 every couple of hours and the stuff had a definite opiate buzz, short lived, but much appreciated at the time. Alas. that was before I was a full time junkster and my Mom have me a bottle a while back, they didn't do much, but they did something. If I had to pick between propox, tramadol or codeine, it would be codeine, hands down, although in doses above 300 mg it makes my fingers swell like sausages. Naw, leave it on the market, it's got it's place.

[rockbottom]

i liked darvocet---2 beers--2 darvocets--2 more beers--would get me high for the twilight zone--btw they gave me that stuff 4 a gunshot wound--assholes

[stymie]

Narkotikon, I'm on my last bottle of tincture of opium (laudanum). It is quite effective for pain (and how!) and is about 25X stronger than paregoric. It is very rarely prescribed anymore and in fact, the only company I know of (Ranbaxy), has pulled it from the market as they got in trouble with FDA for some other generic med they produce. It's a shame it is so rare as it can be a lifesaver when you can't keep pills down. Just swish it around in your mouth. Good stuff!:D

[Narkotikon]

Narkotikon, I'm on my last bottle of tincture of opium (laudanum). It is quite effective for pain (and how!) and is about 25X stronger than paregoric. It is very rarely prescribed anymore and in fact, the only company I know of (Ranbaxy), has pulled it from the market as they got in trouble with FDA for some other generic med they produce. It's a shame it is so rare as it can be a lifesaver when you can't keep pills down. Just swish it around in your mouth. Good stuff!:D

That's interesting. Thanks for the info. Will it be back on the market, or is this a permanent pull? The closest I've had was the brandy / pod thing I made several years ago, and it was quite nice, but I'm assuming the pharm Tincture would be even better. So you're prescribed it for pain because you have trouble keeping pills down?

[stymie]

Haven't heard if Ranbaxy (a generic manufacturer from India) is back in the good graces of the FDA or not yet. Would be a shame if tincture of O became extinct because it has such a long, storied, history in this country and throughout the world. I have a cast-iron stomach when it comes to meds, just seems a certain doc thinks T of O is good and kinda under the radar. Funny you should mention brandy. I keep some at full strength and cut some of the drug with brandy or cherry schnapps. It's a real treat-a couple droppers full on some good vanilla ice cream is yummy!:cloud9:

[Indy]

Haven't heard if Ranbaxy (a generic manufacturer from India) is back in the good graces of the FDA or not yet. Would be a shame if tincture of O became extinct because it has such a long, storied, history in this country and throughout the world. I have a cast-iron stomach when it comes to meds, just seems a certain doc thinks T of O is good and kinda under the radar. Funny you should mention brandy. I keep some at full strength and cut some of the drug with brandy or cherry schnapps. It's a real treat-a couple droppers full on some good vanilla ice cream is yummy!:cloud9:

Ooooh man, i hate you.

[NodMan80]

Get rid of it!!! Even back when I had no tolerance it still did not do shit for me!! Except give me heartburn for some odd reason!! But anyway pull it off!! Trams too they both suck!!!

[ryan]

I myself hate darvon. It doesn't help me at all, even in wd's.
I tried tramadol a long time ago when I had no opiate tollerance...I ordered them off some site and they came in nice little capsules. I used to empty them out and snort the powder. It didn't really do anything. Eventually I stopped using them because I was tripping at the same time and someone told me if I tripped while taking tramadol it could cause serotonin storm or some crap like that.
Screw that. Get rid of both of em.

But yeah, one of the *WORST* things is when you get hurt and have to go to the ER and you're hoping for something good, then the doc writes you a script for god damn darvocet. That's like the ultimate "Fuck you douche bag" from the doc, LOL.

[Larry]

I say ban that shit, very toxic in high doses, shit does more harm then good.

[Jose]

So, has anyone ever had side effects due to tramadol/hallucinogenic combos?

I heard rumors that it stopped a trip cold?! Now a serotonin storm?! Any info?