Basic info site

[Canis aureus]

Hi all,

I have recently changed bupe to methadone -- or better it has been changed for me... Ok, and now I'm in need to know or am picking up knowledge regarding it. one thing which I already know. it is a way better opioid han its reputation happens to be. It is perhaps one of the most frightening told by myths and urban legends...

So, if you happen to know a site or link which contains inforrmation and knowledge regarding it, would you post it, please...(?)

Thanks

[reddragon3668]

I didn't see this... sorry. Actually, there are allot of us here on methadone. So, for a personal perspective, just ask your questions here. As for a particular site, I have done allot of research with Google. And I don't mean that in a smart way either. There is a host of info out there about methadone.

I hope it works for you. Let us know how it goes!

[Canis aureus]

Thanx,

all have started rather fine after when I got myself out of clinique. The period in clinic or hospital was rather horrible. They started from 20 or 30 mg's and I was really sick yet in the afternoon. So, I got a new dose to get little better. I had been 48 -- or was it 72 -- hours clean of bupe, or in other words, my last bupe dose (24mg) was far back there. You all could imagine what it was: shivering, sweating, puking and aching; really deep in shit. One guy who was there to drop his almost 200mgs dose and benzos quit his program and went back in his daily routines... It was/is a place where even big guys turn crybabies. Now when I think back that, I didn't guess how hard it was. I'm really glad hat it's over; I'll never go back there. Now my dose is bit too low still, but it's better, and almost there... I have use´d opiods over 20 years -- sometimes rather hardcore way, but usually, the most usually just self-medicating myself. I don't know what it is, but it really feels like opioids are the medicine for me...

I have tried google, found something, but am still looking/searching more info sites. That http://opioids.com/ is one of them...

Did you know that uncle Bill (W.S. Burroughs) was on methadone, in his late years... 'til his death?

[exitwound]

Amazing to think that Burroughs himself was on the done in his late years. I wonder what he would have thought of sub?!

[Canis aureus]

Hello,

yeah they raised my dose... but won't telll me what it is. That's strange but we have 100mg's limit here for first 6 months and it's really near, bacause they allowed me to know that I'm nearby the limit...

Yes, Burroughs was on 'done was it from mid eighties... about 10 last years, bacause of continuous relapses... Have you seen Drugstore Cowboy: there's Burrougs himself as a junkie priest; he the most probably acts much of his own character, although he wasn't a priest ;) But he was lecturer of literature (was it in Harvard or where (?) bacause of Gingsberg's invitation). It would have been interesting to hear what he could have thought about bupe, but time left him; he lived though over 80 years (was irt 83?), so the opiates won't kill one, if one cares about one's health; most of junkies don't care to eat well and enough fibers and vitamines (though they are really important for all!) So, remember to eat well -- not too much -- and those fibers...

[Somni Divine]

Do you want websites or opinions? I guess I won't wait for you to answer, and will go ahead and opine ... from all of the research I have done, if your goal is to be "clean" then you are better staying on bupe. I am still learning (thanks to the experience, wisdom and knowledge of many here) about bupe, but I know personally years of methadone and well over a hundred mgs a day of the liquid, the tablets, the split dose, and I've never touched heroin - I've never even seen the real thing in my life. (I really believe I haven't run into it because God doesn't allow me to be tempted beyond what I am able to overcome). I went into a clinic with a vicodin addiction, and I was secretly hoping for a way to get high without ruining my liver with tylenol or my stomach with aspirin. I was taking about 16 10/500s or 10/325s a day ... so they started me on 20mgs of methadone a day. Within a few months (and despite similar "restrictions" of no more than 100mgs a day supposedly given out by the clinic), I was up to 140mgs a day without even trying ... they really pushed it at the clinic I was going to. The day I arrived, I sat across from a "junky" who said "Don't do it" and I said "don't do what?" she said, "don't even start this shit, it's legal dope - it's worse than dope - I shot dope for 16 years and I've been on this for 9 years. You start, you will never get off -- they won't even let you get off of it. Don't do it." So, I brushed her off (thinking to myself "crazy junky") and watched her argue with the nurse about LOWERING her dose (she wanted less methadone, the nurse was preaching withdrawl, pain and agony) but the junky won the argument, and walked out into the 95 degree heat shivering, with goosebumps and sweating simultaneously. The thought of "legal dope" was certainly not offensive to me like it was to her, in fact it was exciting, inviting, and just what I was looking for ... could it really be so good? I wondered ... as good as they say heroin is? I could care less about if I got addicted or not, I'd deal with that later ... almost four years later ... later is now. And I should have listened to the "junky". But no one could have paid me to - not a million dollars, and I mean it. I was up at 4AM for my dose every morning, and nodding off by 7AM ... on and off for the rest of the day. Looking back, I lost my life for those years, to methadone, and now I'm not going to the clinic, haven't been for almost a year. But I am more of an addict than the day I walked in. And less able to get high. Too much of a good thing ended up being a lot worse of a situation than I ever imagined.
The clinic I went to had a rotating door for the staff, except for the owner, a shady character who took cash only. I met with a doctor once in four years, for fifteen minutes, the first day. I usually paid for my methadone a month or two in advance. I finally got fed up when they told me I needed to pay for another week of methadone, when I had paid for two months in advance the week before. I told them to check their books. They told me to check my memory. I left, pissed off and swearing never to go back. I never did. I later found out from one of the nurses I ran into outside of the clinic a few weeks later that the secretary got fired for stealing. I found out about a lot of other shady dealings and characters that worked in and/or owned the clinic. The fired thief kept calling me at home (she knew I was on to her) for months after I left. Then the clinic owner called and left a message that he found out I had personal relationships with his staff, and that was inappropriate of me, and he was consulting his attorney. Then he called and apologized. I found out later from the same nurse I ran into the first time that all of these people were "opiate dependent" -- big surprise. I figured out they stole a lot from me, but I was too stoned to notice, or to care. I didn't figure out a lot of things until I stopped taking methadone every day, and the fog cleared. I didn't even know about the fog or that it needed clearing. It was like I woke up one day and my life was a mess. I hadn't cared about anything for years ... had that opiated, false peace and false sense of well being for so long that I had no idea how bad I was screwing up my life by not paying attention to it. In every aspect of my life I was failing and/or falling and just about to crash. I had literally crashed my cars, several times, nodded off at the wheel ... was about to lose my business and didn't even know it. My house was a mess, my life was a mess, my health was a mess. I probably should be saying "is" instead of "was" -- there is still a lot of fixing to do - none of that stuff is even close to right yet.
I've been trying to get better ever since I walked out the clinic door for the last time, but it isn't easy and I crave the opiate high like a fiend, but I know I can chase it until I am literally blue in the face and I won't get there ever again, my tolerance is off the charts. I fear the day I need surgery or have serious pain that can't be controlled. I know God will get me through it but still, I need some serious surgeries in the future, they can't be put off forever, I have heart valves that need replacing, and I really didn't think about that before it was too late. Gaining tolerance is worse than gaining weight, I really don't know if you can ever lose it once you get to a certain level.
I don't really know why I'm spilling my guts and telling this story ... maybe I owe a stranger because a stranger tried to help me by telling their story, but I wouldn't listen, didn't care about her story ... it wasn't mine. Now I have one of my own and I know it wouldn't have stopped me, so maybe it is a waste of words, space, and time to tell, but maybe if it doesn't help you, it will help someone, someday. Maybe it helps me to think about it and put it in perspective.
Two other things probably worth mentioning is that I smoked four times as many cigarettes a day while I was methadoned. And I became much more compulsive about spending money, buying things I didn't need, and wasting time I didn't have.
To this day, I am still counting the cost, and probably still will be a few years from now. It could have been a lot worse, God was really looking out for me, and I am thankful for that. I could have NEVER woke up, but I'm still in that place where the daylight makes me squint and life is more painful than I remembered it being before methadone. I can cut my life into two sections now, before and after methadone. The years during methadone are literally wasted memories, for the most part.
I guess it depends on your perspective what you get out of my experience with methadone. It might depend on where you are in your life too ... if you are before, during, or after methadone. If you are before, that isn't such a bad place to stay ... but I would guess most people who read this will take it like I would have before, I have to learn everything on my own and the hard way.
I don't mean to offend anyone and I don't mean to tell anyone what to do. A lot of people will tell you methadone saved their life and I cannot honestly say that ... it put my life at risk, and I know I lost more time than the years I was "dosing" . Everyone is different, but I thought I'd tell you what happened with me, and methadone, since you asked. I thought you should hear at least one true story that isn't a myth or a legend. I wish you the best in your quest for knowledge about methadone. I hope you find the wisdom on it that you are seeking, and more than that that you choose wisely because it is your life.

[Coddfish]

Urban myth my ass. Except for a few of the details, my experience is quite similar to sd's. (up at 4, early bird gets the done) Many of the people (not all of them) who claim that methadone saved their lives have not been on it for years and years like sd and I were. That 'fog' thing is real. I've gone through a ton of changes since off the done, and making plans for tons more. If I were still on it I would just be sitting here. Waiting. Not thinking about anything. And I don't care who you are, there will be a point when on the 'program' (f'n hate that word) when you will wish you were off it. Whether it's when your counselor is changed 7 times in 5 months, whether the 'computer' takes away your takehomes for no reason, whether your vacation doses don't get approved even though you've never missed a session or had a dirty ua, whether you 'owe money' when you've paid ahead for months, whether your car breaks down and you can't make it to the clinic, whether your doses get lost or stolen, or whether you finally realize that the shit is poison. It will happen.

[Canis aureus]

Possibly, you won't believe me... I know a person who has been on done almost thirty years and never has gone up to 100, and won't... I know a person who has done dope and finish master of arts degree, and is still pushing further... there are sad stories, but not all of them are sad.

[Coddfish]

why wouldn't we believe you? Swim got his ba while on done (and a full blown junky ta boot). But that doesn't mean the shit doesn't suck. Now that I'm finally off it, I'm going to finish my ma. There are people who it helps OVERALL, but you give up somethin to get somethin with done. At least 90 percent of the hundreds of done patients I've talked to say it ain't worth it. If they had to do it over they'd have done somethin else. Does the 30 year done patient like his situation?

[Canis aureus]

That's how one said it and I heard that, totally confortable with the situation; has relapsed every time when did quit. Relapsed to h, I guess... didn't specify on what, but chose methadone afterwards. I'm confortable with it now and been using it momentarily beforehads, as have been addict about 20 years... Most may say that they won't like it, but not all. It's much better to take one dose per day (and trying to live otherwise as healthy as one could), and not scoring most of the day... Just one opinion though.

[Somni Divine]

Canis, what can I say? Nothing I'm sure. Like I said, you couldn't have paid me a million dollars to make me change my mind when I was standing in your shoes. I'm not going to say anything that makes you think otherwise, and I doubt Coddfish will either. I can tell you that in a few years, I really don't doubt that you will sound a lot more like Coddfish and me, and a lot less like you do now - I can almost guarantee it. But, in the beginning there is every rationalization in the world to go ahead and do it, it is tempting, legal, available, and cheap. Of course we both believe you about the person you know, and despite the fog sounds like Coddfish was successful in life, and so was I. I own a business that is very lucrative, and despite my impending failure that I did not forsee BECAUSE of the fog I was in, I got out of it in time to save it, and myself. But the price is higher now than it would have been had I never started methadone. That is all I am trying to say. I don't think it's a sad story, because I learned from it, and like I said in the beginning I hope someone else can too - that would make it a good story. I don't want to sound judgemental, but this will probably, because I remember being where you are, and right now, that clinic has you gaffed in the jaw with their big hook and you are swallowing every bit of bait with glee. If you were a fish, you'd be dinner in an hour. With methadone, it takes them a little longer to totally get their hooks into you, and once you are in "liquid cuffs" you will understand why they call it that. It will be up to you to decide when you've had enough, and the way the drug works that gets less and less clear daily and it gets harder and harder to quit. YOU think YOU are fine. Your friends and family -- the people who know you and love you will tell you the difference they notice in you, and you will bring them brochures about how they should support you not condemn you while you are on methadone. You are about to be IMMERSED in this entire subculture that you probably had no idea worked the way it does. If you are an honest person, and you seem to be trying your best to be, you will realize what it's all about sooner hopefully than later. Yes, doctors, lawyers, professors, politicians, and people from all walks of life get through life just fine on methadone. What you don't hear much about is the before and after ... I was just hoping to give you a glimpse, I will never forget the lady I thought of as a "junky" in the clinic that day ... I've often wondered since if she was really an angel. Guess I won't know for sure until the next life, but my guess is she was there for a reason that day. Again though, these are probably wasted words. I DID NOT CARE what anyone else said I ONLY cared how I FELT and I FELT better on methadone than I had ever felt before methadone. What I didn't realize before methadone is that there is no way out of the pain of every day life that makes sense - no way out but through, because some day you are going to have to deal with it all. Methadone is a great procrastinator of life. This probably is NOT the kind of information that you wanted, but it is several years of experience that you should probably at least take into consideration unless you think Cod and I are just a couple of nuts. And I might be - but I can tell cod isn't! :-)

[Coddfish]

I'm a nutlet- 1) a small nut or 2) a small fruit similar to a nut
Didn't make that up

[Canis aureus]

Somni Divine and Goddfish,

I guess, that there is a logical name for a stance or point where all what you say could be used as a proof that you are on/in a supposed trap/hook

But, why it's just methadone which is evil drug... engineered as such by nazis. Yes, it's invented in Germany in second world war. Some even call it adolphine; and so the story goes on in Church of Scientology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone

Let's say, I want knowledge, I need knowledge... So, upon where it is based that methadone is such a different opioid that it tends to ruin all. Where the fog comes? Why it is such a hook?

Is there any scientific knowledge or backround to where or on what all its bad features match or relates? It should be long lasting full agonist, with high mu receptor activity.

Isn't it such? I want to know where all is based; I want knowledge, I need knowledge. It's much more promising than stories; and, there are stories which aren't like yours Somni and God... What is that? That which makes it such a terrible, legal hook?

Hey, still one thing: I have used opioids rather long run and there was also methadone. It didn' hook me then... why? (And I'm not young anymore; and I want that my life is legal...)

But hey, I would try to hear other people and their comments regarding me... all feedback has been positive. I'll keep my ears open, though you may say that I hear only positive feedback; but it's not possible...

And isn't there still bupe... I mean to get back to?

[prettypoppy]

Canis, I know a lot of people--a LOT of people--who have been on MMT for 20 to 30 years and are doing great, accomplishing their goals, and still say it is the best thing that ever happened to them. If methadone made me feel the way sd and codfish describe, I would want off it too--but it doesn't. I think a lot of the aggravation experienced by MMT patients comes from the clinic crap, not the med itself, and that is understandable. Also, a lot of people mix the medication with benzos, alcohol, etc and then blame the methadone for the nodding and somnolence that occurs. Or they double dose, get their stability out of whack, and blame the med for THAT. I am not saying that some people do not have bad experiences with methadone, only that they often seem to leave MMT with a chip on their shoulder about it and end up insisting that it's a trap, an evil drug, liquid handcuffs, etc, for everyone--and that is not the case, I can assure you.

[prettypoppy]

Also, Canis, that is a myth about methadone being named after Adolph Hitler. I know it says that on the scientology site, but they are wrong. It is an old wives tale. The drug was named Dolophine--Dolo from dolor, meaning "pain". If you think about it it doesn't even make sense--it's ADOLPH Hitler, not ADOLOPH Hitler.

[Coddfish]

Actually, I have probably been a little hard on meth. It did help me for a while, and like I said maybe 90% said they would have done it differently(and some of those could have been fooling themselves). That leaves 10% of the people I met who were happy on it (which is at least dozens). As for real info and stats and such on it, I can't help. But I bet you could get a lot of information at a methadone clinic. The info will probably be slanted towards how effective it is, but there will definitely be some helpful stuff. You could ask to talk to one of the medical people before you even start the program, i bet.

[Canis aureus]

I could say just from my point of wiev about comparison between bup and methadone: methadone is a way better 'til this factual day. I was on 24mg's of bup and am over hundred on metha... and in comparison, I was much more tired while I was on bup (than now). I haven't nodded, I have my works done, plus all people who I have met, have said that I appear to be in better shape than/since a long time. I could say that it is only from my point of wiev, but pushing with bup, would have been a failure. Only thing which isn't yet correct, is my current dose; I have such a high tolerance, and risements of dose are here law bounded, that I am still cranky in the mornings ('til +2h of dose).

I'm glad to be on methadone (MMT)

[prettypoppy]

Canis, what are the clinics like where you live? What kind of rules and regulations do they have? How do you go about getting dose increases? Do they have a dose cap, or can you keep going up until you feel comfortable? Do you get takehome doses, and if so, how many is the maximum you can get over there?

[HistoryofMadness]

I know a person who has done dope and finish master of arts degree, and is still pushing further... there are sad stories, but not all of them are sad.

This board is full of stories that aren't 'sad' in the typical sense, but that doesn't mean the individual wasn't suffering.

I also went on methadone to try to manage a bad habit, and it worked until I had cravings again and found out I could break through the 'done very easily with a shot or two. That of course did nothing but make my habit sky-high.

I had a friend that was on at the same time, and he used so much on top of the 'done he started going into withdrawals even after his dose of methadone if he didn't also go shooting. When he finally came clean at the clinic, they freaked out and reamed him (instead of positive reinforcement because he was honest), they barely raised his dose, and he ended up dropping out and on a full relapse.

I think methadone is just like any other treatment program for junkies: If a junky wants to get high, he will find a way, regardless of the program. But if and when a junky is ready to be clean, any program they keep an open mind about will help.

[Canis aureus]

Hey,

the problem is that I have been hitting and banging my head to the wall so much that I'm done.

I mean, tried to get clean, wholly clean 'til I don't want. Relapsing more times than cat has lives... Gone to subo, but it wasn't for me. I feel confortable now, and I'll try to keep my tolerance low...

All I want, is not to be criminalized and not to relapse; so, I guess that this program is for me.