Injecting Subs; So what's the story??

[lespaulpower]

I have used the search engine and scoured this message board with no significant information...
Sorry if this HAS been covered somewhere.

I understand that the naloxone in suboxone is made to deter IV use by precipitating withdrawal. However, I am hearing conflicting reports about this on the web. So I figure, the best way to really know what's up is to hear from YOUR experience with it.

Has anyone here ever tried IVing Sub? (suboxones NOT subutex)

Yes, it would be a foolish thing to do knowing that there is narcan present, but Im sure people have tried.

If so, how was it? What happened?

Instant withdrawal?

Nothing?

Get lucky?

Thanks, LP

[tch2296]

No, you can inject Suboxone without a problem, as long as you haven't been using dope or other opiates beforehand.

The idea that you can't inject them is pressed into your head by doctors and shit, but the truth is, the buprenorphine in the Subs has a much higher affinity for opiate receptors than the naloxone does; therefore even if you cook and inject a suboxone, you will in effect just be taking a shot of bupe; the naloxone is overpowered by the high affinity of bupe.

However, if you are using other opiates when you take the shot, the bupe (and to some extent the naloxone) will violently knock them off the receptors, causing immediate precipitated withdrawal.

Bottom line, if you have been using subs for a while, you can slam them without a problem.

If you've been using other shit, at least wait till you are withdrawing before slamming the bupe, and be careful with the dosage.

I have slammed bupe a couple times, I was on Suboxone for 2 years and recently got off it completely (fucking terrible). There really isnt much of a rush, but it feels nice, instant gratification rather than waiting for that nasty shit to dissolve under your tongue.

[Indy]

Yeah. that's what i've heard too, although i've heard in some cases the naloxone kicks in for a couple minutes, but doesn't really affect the bupe, and it still gets through just fine.


from what i've heard, the REAL reason people don't usually inject subs is that there isn't much advantage. the naloxone isn't the reason though.

[tch2296]

Exactly, it really just isn't worth shooting it, but some people just love the ritual, and the buprenorphine does get into your system very quickly, it provides more of a "sweeping calmness" feeling than an opiate rush, because it isn't a full agonist.

[simfromstoke]

plz dont try "cooking" subs -the solution will just turn to jelly, then it aint worth shit...











-sim

[Opiyum]

I'm all about shooting anything and everything, as is normally the case, but Subs are one thing I quickly learned aren't worth it.

[duck]

I'm all about shooting anything and everything, as is normally the case, but Subs are one thing I quickly learned aren't worth it.

Could you expand on your reasoning? I doubt I would try it, but for the sake of knowledge.

[ka11ink]

I've shot it without a problem before, you can taste the orange flavor in your mouth for a few seconds just like u tastes dope/coke after booting up.

[tch2296]

They are a bitch to prep and cook, as someone else mentioned, and there really isn't much that makes it worth shooting, as opposed to snorting it, for example, or just letting it dissolve under your tongue.

There really isn't a rush, and most people that will shoot bupe have been using it for a while and are looking for a way to catch a decent buzz, which really isn't possible. You'll shoot it and be disappointed, because there really isn't a rush, it's just the same old boring bupe.

No need to shoot it. I snorted it sometimes, I think the bioavailability is a bit higher that way, as i wasn't very good at holding it under my tongue - I ended up swallowing a lot in saliva.

I actually found snorting it to be quicker and more effective, still, it's just bupe, nothing exciting.

[simfromstoke]

i inject subs everyday, but then again i AM a needle freak...


ps i DO get a lovely buzz off them
its like having 2 lines of decent coke then smoking a spliff...



i wouldnt poke holes in my arm if it wasn't worth the buzz..iv got hardly any viens left as it is..

[Top Secret]

I have injected subs on numerous occasions... definitely not my favorite thing to do, but I would rather shoot them than snort them because the orange taste makes me really nauseous.

There was one time when I probably shot the subs too soon and it made me go into minor withdrawal. I only shot 2mg of sub so it wasn't that bad. When I realized what was going on with my body I decided to take a really long bath and just relax the best that I could. When I got out of the tub about an hour later I felt much better. But believe me, it is not a mistake that I will ever make again.

[The_Highwayman]

I shot some recetly after only doing the under-the-tongue for a while, and I got a small, as someone said, calmness, nice well-being feeling, however, that could have been from using a needle. Also I noticed that I can use less bupe when shooting it and that saves me $$$ however it took me a long time to get rid of my tracks and I wasn't looking forward to getting them again...I had no trouble cooking the sub, just crush and put in a sterile spoon or can and add water, filter and shoot....

[Opiyum]

Yeah I experienced the precip withdrawals once and only once when I shot some sub too soon. It was the last time I ever shot it and man that was one hell of an experience. As soon as I finished pushing in that plunger I knew something was terribly wrong.
We are all used to how dope sickness comes over a long 24 hour period your symptoms begin to increase and get worse. When it all comes on at once in a matter of fifteen seconds it is overwhelming to say the least. I was so scared that I was going to have to endure it for a few hours but it actually went away after five or ten minutes.
That was enough for me to never shoot it again.

[duck]

Yeah I experienced the precip withdrawals once and only once when I shot some sub too soon. It was the last time I ever shot it and man that was one hell of an experience. As soon as I finished pushing in that plunger I knew something was terribly wrong.
We are all used to how dope sickness comes over a long 24 hour period your symptoms begin to increase and get worse. When it all comes on at once in a matter of fifteen seconds it is overwhelming to say the least. I was so scared that I was going to have to endure it for a few hours but it actually went away after five or ten minutes.
That was enough for me to never shoot it again.

You think it could have actually been the naloxone working as they docs say it is supposed to--your experience is exactly what they say should happen?

[Opiyum]

In my case I think it was the naloxone but in most cases I think it's the bupe. Most people who experience precips experience it for hours which I would think you could attribute to the bupe since Naloxone doesn't last that long anyhow.
For me I underestimated how long it had been since my last DOC dose and the naloxone made sure to teach me a lesson.

I dont know though. I've made threads about it before and Ill say it here again. Suboxone is a weirdly and wildly inconsistent drug and it never ceases to surprise me.

[chopstix]

The naloxone does shit, nada, nothing. Bup is a much stronger antagonist.

If you're going to do this, DO NOT COOK them, you're better off using cold water, seriously - the binder is mostly cornstarch and it thickens with heat, and just makes it harder to get what you want through a cotton cleanly. Bup is plently soluble in water, no need and more dangerous to cook the shit.

Also - REALLY big cottons, like at least .25" in diameter, the solution should be absolutely clear in the rig, if it isn't then, you're shooting CORN STARCH - re-filter with a new cotton if it's not clear. I'd mix mine up and then let the sediment settle, then tilt the cap and let the liquid roll off and drop the pre-wetted cotton in and draw very slowly and carefully.

Though you can do this, it's really much easier and close to as efficient to just crush with a credit card and sniff them - takes less than 5 minutes.

I've posted this tech a dozen times, either the search engine is borked or you the OP didn't try very hard.

And ya, standing in front of a mirror watching your pupils immediately dilate as your bowels start to immediately evacuate isn't much fun. Best way I can describe the initial experience of PW via IV bup is like shooting liquid fear. Not fun.

[Opiyum]

The naloxone does shit, nada, nothing. Bup is a much stronger antagonist.
I know that this is the case and that the bupe is stronger but I think the initial precip WD's one can experience if they shoot up too early is caused by the naloxone and not the bupe. I don't think bupe can create such a fast acting effect. Over time though the bupe will replace anything and everything there because of its strong affinity.

[chopstix]

I know that this is the case and that the bupe is stronger but I think the initial precip WD's one can experience if they shoot up too early is caused by the naloxone and not the bupe. I don't think bupe can create such a fast acting effect. Over time though the bupe will replace anything and everything there because of its strong affinity.

Bullshit. Same thing happens with subutex. Try it! :)

[sunsrequiem]

I've IVd subs with not problem at all, but I enjoy shooting for the ceremony. I don't remember feeling any sort of withdrawal symptoms, but like Ka11ink, I did taste the orange flavor in my mouth...blah

[Opiyum]

Bullshit. Same thing happens with subutex. Try it! :)

Well maybe your right I dunno. I'd love to try Subutex it just seems like it doesn't exist in my part of the world.

[Opiyum]

I've IVd subs with not problem at all, but I enjoy shooting for the ceremony. I don't remember feeling any sort of withdrawal symptoms, but like Ka11ink, I did taste the orange flavor in my mouth...blah

I enjoy the ceremony of shooting just as much as the next guy but shooting those and prep-ing them and everything else that is involved with getting them in the rig and ready to go is just irritating to me. It hardly dissolves, turns your spoon that awful orange color and still gives you that shitty taste in your mouth with apparently can only be avoided when plugged.

[Stonnewolf]

question guys:

i have been on 'oxone for 1 week now (tongue) so illbe good to wake up and shoot me an 8mg??

Thanks and hopefully a quick reply :P

[ka11ink]

You should be good man but there's always a chance something could go wrong, every1 is different, but if u've been a week on subs alrdy and haven't done any short acting full agonists then I'd say ur good to go.

[chopstix]

question guys:

i have been on 'oxone for 1 week now (tongue) so illbe good to wake up and shoot me an 8mg??

Thanks and hopefully a quick reply :P

Honestly, if you have to ask, I'd say don't do it. Shooting suboxone ain't all that and probably not worth the risks, even if you are really careful.

The first abscesses I ever had, after years of IV use, were from subs. The only other ones I've had were from muscling tar which was my DOC (IV) for the best part of two decades.

[roxi*stardust]

Yeah I experienced the precip withdrawals once and only once when I shot some sub too soon. It was the last time I ever shot it and man that was one hell of an experience. As soon as I finished pushing in that plunger I knew something was terribly wrong.
We are all used to how dope sickness comes over a long 24 hour period your symptoms begin to increase and get worse. When it all comes on at once in a matter of fifteen seconds it is overwhelming to say the least. I was so scared that I was going to have to endure it for a few hours but it actually went away after five or ten minutes.
That was enough for me to never shoot it again.

Even snorting Suboxone causes PWD alomost immediatley, with 3-5 mintutes after snorting. So I would have to agree with chopstix that it is the Bupe rather than the Naloxone..

[ryan]

Thanks for starting this thread...I've ALWAYS wondered this.
Next time I am on bupe for a long period of time I am definitely going to give this a "shot" :cool:

[Narkotikon]

It really doesn't have anything to do with the Narcan / naloxone. It's because Buprenorphine has a VERY high binding affinity. So, if you use Suboxone OR Subutex too soon, before you're in w/d from your ordinary opiate of choice, the bupe is going to knock off the other opiates from the receptors, because of it's high binding affinity. Then, because it's only a partial agonist, it's not going to fully activate the receptors and it's not going to get you out of w/d.

You can shoot Subutex or even Suboxone, but the Narcan doesn't really have anything to do with it. The bupe will overcome the Narcan because bupe has an even higher binding affinity than Narcan. BUT, you don't want to do that until you're stabilized on it. Because of the paragraph above. So, say you just got your script of Subs. I wouldn't shoot them or even try shooting them until at least a week after you've been on them.

I've never tried shooting subs, because, while I know this is how it's theoretically supposed to work, I'm still afraid that something would go wrong, even if I had been stabilized on it for a while.

But, the precipitated w/d thing comes from the bupe, not the Narcan. The Narcan is just added to prevent IV abuse in Suboxone. But, like I have said, the bupe overcomes the Narcan b/c of it's higher binding affinity. But, you have to be stabilized on it. I think the Suboxone website (www.suboxone.com (http://www.suboxone.com)) has a little slideshow thing explaining the precipitated w/d in further detail. Or, you can read the Wikipedia article on buprenorphine. The slideshow would apply to Subutex too, because it's talking about the Bupe, and not the Narcan.

You can get precipitated w/d just as easily from Subutex if you take it too soon (i.e., before you're in w/d), from sublingual use, from snorting, or from IV, because the bupe is going to displace the other opiates (morphine, heroin, oxy, whatever) from the receptors and since it's not a full-agonist like those, it's not going to complete activate / satisfy those receptors, and won't get you out of w/d.

Edit: I went to the website, and didn't find the little slideshow thing. Maybe I was thinking of another site. But, anyway, the definition of "Precipitated W/D" is as follows (from www.Suboxone.com):

Precipitated withdrawal:
Withdrawal symptoms that result when one drug displaces another drug from the receptor, and the drug has no or less effect than the drug it displaced. When SUBOXONE is given before the patient is in mild-to-moderate withdrawal from the opioid he or she has already taken, it can cause withdrawal to occur more rapidly an intensely.

When they're talking about the "one drug" they're meaning the buprenorphine, and not the naloxone. Because bupe has a higher binding affinity (I think Wiki says it's 96%, whereas morphine is 30-40% and even Fentanyl is only 80-85% according to Wikipedia), AND is only a partial agonist.

[duck]

So, if, as you all say, the naloxone does not cause withdrawal when shooting (as it is designed to do), obviously the manufacturers know this...why do they keep putting it in? To appease everyone?

[duck]

And, Nark, that suboxone website sure does make sub seem like a miracle drug! It almost convinced me to get on them just for fun :)

[Narkotikon]

So, if, as you all say, the naloxone does not cause withdrawal when shooting (as it is designed to do), obviously the manufacturers know this...why do they keep putting it in? To appease everyone?

I think the Narcan does probably play at least some role when you're not stabilized on bupe, but once you're stabilized on bupe, it won't. Yes, I'm sure the pharm company knows this, but I mean, you can't ever discount the stupidity of people. Hell, even some doctors don't know this or don't want to admit it. To most opiate addicts, they hear Narcan (if they even know what that is) and they run in the other direction. Most aren't going to take the time to research this and figure out it doesn't exactly work the way the pharm company / doctors say it does.

Plus, I'm sure it's partly an anti-abuse thing like putting APAP in Vics and Percs. 1.) The APAP will help potentiate the Vics and Percs, but they also do it as an anti-abuse feature, even though you can do a CWE and get rid of most of it. They don't count on people knowing that though.

Edit: Yeah, it is very pro-Suboxone, but it's from the pharm company, so I expect that. I personally did very well on Subs, moresoe that I ever did on methadone, but I think for some people, methadone is the better choice. But, yeah, that website is definitely touting the miracles of Suboxone / Subutex.

[hovadagod]

Harry's doctor wanted to switch him from subutex to suboxone after finding out he was injecting it and Harry told the doc that it makes no difference becaue the subxone can be injected the same...it is just worse for Harry's liver to have the extra ineffective drug(naloxone). The doctor got mad and threatened to stop treating harry.

[More Feen]

Important WARNING !

The oral doses of bupe are much, MUCH higher that those of injection (any type).

Oral doses are given in miligrams, often 8 mg, while injected doses are in micrograms, often 300ug, or 0.3 mg.

In pain clinics, most patients receive between 300 & 900 ug (0.3mg and 0.9mg). The vials are in doses of 300ug.

If you were able to dissolve all 8 mg of your "oral" bupe in a syringe, you would be giving yourself a dose that is 26 times the amount typically injected ! This could cause an overdose.

Buprenorphine OD is notoriously difficult to combat--since it has a very strong affinity for the opi receptor. Even other posts on this thread agree, bupe will beat nalloxone at the receptor.

Be very careful if you choose to use bupe in this manner. Consider using less than 1mg per injection.

M F

[ryan]

I just tried this...I did 2 mg...I didn't feel a thing.
I know I hit a good vein. I filtered it twice using an entire q tip end each time -- Pre wetted.
I could not get the liquid to be entirely clear, but filtering it a second time definitely helped.
I don't know what I was expecting but it's weird to not even feel a thing...Hm...

And by the way, you're right -- when bupe is administered for analgesic purposes the dose is extremely low.
Either way, the concensus seems to be never to try and shoot more than 2mg at a time.

I don't know tho, since I didn't feel anything I am tempted to try more.

[chopstix]

I don't know tho, since I didn't feel anything I am tempted to try more.

Junky logic at it's absolute finest.

If it's not clear, you're not filtering it well enough.

[ryan]

Junky logic at it's absolute finest.


Lol :):p

Just a little background, been on subs for a few days now, coming off again another H binge...friday took 4, saturday 8, sunday 8...nothin monday, and today this morning at 9 i did two bags of dope. Felt a slight rush, slight high. Went away after 30 mins.

At 7 PM i then shot the 2mg of suboxone.

Tomorrow I'm gonna try for four. I don't know if it's related or not but it's about an hour and a half later and I have a bad headache.
No precip withdrawals tho, and no rush or any feeling whatsoever after the shot.

[hovadagod]

Harry used to bang 8mg pills. No problem. Did't get high but he'd feel ok. I don't know how he did such a high dose but he came to enjoy these super high doses.

[Indy]

Important WARNING !

The oral doses of bupe are much, MUCH higher that those of injection (any type).

Oral doses are given in miligrams, often 8 mg, while injected doses are in micrograms, often 300ug, or 0.3 mg.

In pain clinics, most patients receive between 300 & 900 ug (0.3mg and 0.9mg). The vials are in doses of 300ug.

If you were able to dissolve all 8 mg of your "oral" bupe in a syringe, you would be giving yourself a dose that is 26 times the amount typically injected ! This could cause an overdose.

Buprenorphine OD is notoriously difficult to combat--since it has a very strong affinity for the opi receptor. Even other posts on this thread agree, bupe will beat nalloxone at the receptor.

Be very careful if you choose to use bupe in this manner. Consider using less than 1mg per injection.

M F

Of course the oral dose is gonna be much higher, but nobody takes bupe orally. Did you mean sublingually or bucally? Cause it's definitely not the same thing. But sublingual bioavailability is around 50%. This means that an IV dose would be around half the sublingual dose.

Also remember that people without tolerance are going to need MUCH less bupe than an addict. Temgesic, the version of bupe formulated for pain, is 0.2 mg, or 200 micrograms (the little mu symbol on fent patches, for those of you who don't know), so someone WITH a tolerance is going to need much more than that.

[The_Highwayman]

I have done it plently of times and never got PWD from it, however if oyu are just getting off a needle addiction I would recommend using the sub the right way, I had a needle problem too and using the subs the right way was a great way to breka the needle addiction occasionally I will shoot my subs but it never does what my junkie brain thinks it will. so my advice is go under ur tongue...

[oxy kid]

So what is the difference in the effects and the performance of the drug when it is IV'd rather than the normal ROA?

Is there even any pluses to IV'ing?

I have never had Subutex, but I have heard many people say it is OUTRAGEOUSLY better than Suboxone. Can anybody give me any input on this? Theoretically, they should be the same since the naloxone is basically there to keep from abuse, so what is the difference from the Subutex and the Suboxone?

[oxy kid]

I have tried to switch to Suboxone numerous times, but my doc won't do it. I've been on Suboxone wayyy too long.

[More Feen]

"Of course the oral dose is gonna be much higher, but nobody takes bupe orally. Did you mean sublingually or bucally? Cause it's definitely not the same thing. But sublingual bioavailability is around 50%. This means that an IV dose would be around half the sublingual dose."

Sorry, I did mean sub-lingually. But the difference in "typical dosage" was the main point of the post.

If someone has a killer tolerance, sure they can take doses of opis that would kill a naive individual.

For people looking to such threads as a guide to their own use need to consider that the dose of Bupe given IM, or IV is much less than those doses needed for sublingual use.

If someone scored a 8mg bupe dose and wanted to slam it, they should be careful and understand that they might be safer dividing such a dose into 4 or 8 separate doses--especially if they are opi-naive.

M F

[chopstix]

So what is the difference in the effects and the performance of the drug when it is IV'd rather than the normal ROA?

Is there even any pluses to IV'ing?

I have never had Subutex, but I have heard many people say it is OUTRAGEOUSLY better than Suboxone. Can anybody give me any input on this? Theoretically, they should be the same since the naloxone is basically there to keep from abuse, so what is the difference from the Subutex and the Suboxone?

No pluses to IV'ng - don't do it unless you're a freak - it's not worth it. See that guy "ryan" up there? He's currently in ICU foaming at the mouth...

Subutex to me did seem slightly more potent but that could be entirely placebo and in comparison to IV suboxone, it was really about the same.

Most people will disagree, I almost preferred 'xone over 'tex because of the taste - people bitch about the orange flavor of suboxone, to me it's not that bad - SUBUTEX tastes like ASS in my book though I would normally take it over xone, but probably mostly just for imagined reasons.. Bup is powerful shit..

[The_Highwayman]

In my honest opinion, I get a slight rush, emphasis on SLIGHT when I shoot it, but I think I would get that if I shot 1cc of water, the only advantage I have found with IV or IM subs is that I can use 1/2 the amount to ge the same effect for myself....

[ryan]

No pluses to IV'ng - don't do it unless you're a freak - it's not worth it. See that guy "ryan" up there? He's currently in ICU foaming at the mouth...


Hey now :( Actually I'm back on H for the time being unfortunately...I never got around to trying to shoot 4 mg...I doubt it would be any diff. than 2 mg which I did not feel at all.

[chopstix]

Hey now :( Actually I'm back on H for the time being unfortunately...I never got around to trying to shoot 4 mg...I doubt it would be any diff. than 2 mg which I did not feel at all.

I was just making a joke - at your expense - sorry (sorta) :D

Point being that people will do it no matter, but it's dangerous to shoot pills, bup ain't worth it and this site is largely focused on harm reduction.

[havok]

I know that this is the case and that the bupe is stronger but I think the initial precip WD's one can experience if they shoot up too early is caused by the naloxone and not the bupe. I don't think bupe can create such a fast acting effect. Over time though the bupe will replace anything and everything there because of its strong affinity.

I'm pretty sure it was the bupe that caused the precip WD's. It can definitly create such a fast acting effect. I had the same thing happen to me. The bupe causes precip WD right away, and then slowly replaces the other opiates in your system that were knocked off the receptor, therefore making the WD go away. The precip WD's only last a short period of time when this happens.

Lol :):p

Just a little background, been on subs for a few days now, coming off again another H binge...friday took 4, saturday 8, sunday 8...nothin monday, and today this morning at 9 i did two bags of dope. Felt a slight rush, slight high. Went away after 30 mins.

At 7 PM i then shot the 2mg of suboxone.

Tomorrow I'm gonna try for four. I don't know if it's related or not but it's about an hour and a half later and I have a bad headache.
No precip withdrawals tho, and no rush or any feeling whatsoever after the shot.

What did you expect? Of coarse you aren't gonna feel anything if you are taking subs to come off heroin. The only time you will actually "feel" bupe is when you have been completely clean off opiates for at least a few days to a week. Then bupe is actually a very powerful opioid. When I was completely clean, I actually got high from bupe and the feeling lasted a very long time (like over 24 hours). I very much enjoy bupe when I have been clean off all opiates for awhile.

[havok]

I have never had Subutex, but I have heard many people say it is OUTRAGEOUSLY better than Suboxone. Can anybody give me any input on this? Theoretically, they should be the same since the naloxone is basically there to keep from abuse, so what is the difference from the Subutex and the Suboxone?

There is absolutely no difference between Suboxone and Subutex. Anyone who says Subutex is "outrageously" better than Suboxone is just plain retarded. I have taken both many times and there is no difference whatsoever.

Important WARNING !

The oral doses of bupe are much, MUCH higher that those of injection (any type).

Oral doses are given in miligrams, often 8 mg, while injected doses are in micrograms, often 300ug, or 0.3 mg.

In pain clinics, most patients receive between 300 & 900 ug (0.3mg and 0.9mg). The vials are in doses of 300ug.

If you were able to dissolve all 8 mg of your "oral" bupe in a syringe, you would be giving yourself a dose that is 26 times the amount typically injected ! This could cause an overdose.

Buprenorphine OD is notoriously difficult to combat--since it has a very strong affinity for the opi receptor. Even other posts on this thread agree, bupe will beat nalloxone at the receptor.

Be very careful if you choose to use bupe in this manner. Consider using less than 1mg per injection.

M F

Oral (sublingual) doses of bupe are absorbed at around 50%. If you take an 8mg suboxone sublingually, you are absorbing about 4mg of bupe. Therefore taking an 8mg suboxone tab sublingually is equivalent to injecting 4mg of bupe.

It is nearly impossible to overdose from bupe because it has a ceiling effect plus it is not a full agonist. Once your receptors are full of bupe, taking more will have no effect. That is why there is no point to taking huge doses to try and get "higher". Once the ceiling is reached, taking more will do nothing. The only person who needs to worry about taking too much is bupe is someone who is completely opiate naive and has no tolerance whatsoever.

[dharma bum]

In summary, there is no added advantage to injecting subs. Any good in it is outweighed by bad ten-fold. But people will always continue trying it. Whatever blows your hair back I guess.

If anybody feels they MUST shoot subs do not, as stated by a few others here, cook your subs.

[n0yd]

I've injected suboxone and subutex, it's a waste of time, no rush, same ol' sub feeling. Just stick the fuckers under your tongue, they work fine that way.

[More Feen]

[Oral (sublingual) doses of bupe are absorbed at around 50%. If you take an 8mg suboxone sublingually, you are absorbing about 4mg of bupe. Therefore taking an 8mg suboxone tab sublingually is equivalent to injecting 4mg of bupe.

It is nearly impossible to overdose from bupe because it has a ceiling effect plus it is not a full agonist. Once your receptors are full of bupe, taking more will have no effect. That is why there is no point to taking huge doses to try and get "higher". Once the ceiling is reached, taking more will do nothing. The only person who needs to worry about taking too much is bupe is someone who is completely opiate naive and has no tolerance whatsoever.]

I place quite a bit of stock in "user's experiences" and "street experience". If playing around with drugs, such as bupe, one would want to study the literature and package inserts, etc... regarding a drug one is unfamiliar with.

Most package inserts for bupe relate some of the info I passes-on. I believe 100% in what you're saying Havok, especially if this infomation is first, or second-hand. Maybe the package inserts were talking about a naive patient taking too much bupe, but from what I've read, of a person has taken too much bupe, the treatment is not as simple as treating Heroin OD, or typical opis. Those drugs can be displaced by Narcan/Nalloxone. Bupe isn't easily dislodged.

M F

[bronyraur]

<snip>

Most package inserts for bupe relate some of the info I passes-on. I believe 100% in what you're saying Havok, especially if this infomation is first, or second-hand. Maybe the package inserts were talking about a naive patient taking too much bupe, but from what I've read, of a person has taken too much bupe, the treatment is not as simple as treating Heroin OD, or typical opis. Those drugs can be displaced by Narcan/Nalloxone. Bupe isn't easily dislodged.

M F

This is true.

For as tame and boring as bupe seems, it can be a real bastard when it comes to removing it from a receptor. It's a tough cookie–and it deserves respect.

[tch2296]

So are you getting 100% bioavailability when injecting Suboxone? Anyone know the bioavailability when snorting them?

[dopethrone]

I believe it's around 80%.

[BigLou]

I Was shooting suboxone everyday for about a year, and i actually managed to quit, then i started up again but this time with subutex, i dont recomend shooting them to anyone, but if you are going to shoot one of the two shoot subutex, either of them are very bad for your body, it seems that is the culprit of my teeth going to hell, also its very easy to prep just take a spoon, throw a little chunk on the spoon and then take some hot tap water and squirt about 40-50 units on it and let it disolve then stir it around and its good to go, like someone else said no cooking,

P.S. Also it seems nearly impossible to get off them once you start shooting them so i dont recomend it, i have to shoot a piece everyday to just feel "Normal".. ugh

oh btw this picture might deter you from shooting subs its a pic of me, a miss that bubbled up and pussed everywhere and now i got a big whole in my leg, pretty nasty
http://louisz.sytes.net/eww.jpg

oh well thats my story on shooting subs lol

[30_Units]

pretty gross^. good luck getting somewhere ah...better?

everyone talks about how disappointing it is, but you always see that one post, or have that one friend that just can't stop talking about how great it is, and then I had to do it. It wasn't bad, but it wan't in any way worth repeating.

[Duckfeet]

Its how I found this site, before I knew "Harm Reduction" was invented....and once I saw the pics of the boys whose arms were all fucked up from trying this....well, I just had to give it a whack myself...about 5-6 times, with subutex, actually...

Most boring shit I ever fixed...down there on the "doesn't do shit" scale with percodan rinses and "second" cotton beatings....but, if you got needle fever, you'll try it....don't miss....