Positives/Negatives About Cutting Your Bupe Dose

[limitless_euphoria]

Okay guys, so those of you who follow "The LE Saga" know that I've been clean since August 2008 and I can say, honest to goodness, I've not cheated other than cutting open an old straw I found and licking it--interesting little buzz. Since then I've gotten a pretty decent job, I've really started to heal the wounds between my wife and friends who nearly lost all faith in me because of my dishonesty and relapse after relapse. I actually enjoy doing everyday things that a lot of people do. The next thing I want is to start writing music again. Oh yeah, in case you all didn't know--I'm a musician (piano/keyboard/bass/amateur drummer but no set).

The bupe has been a lifesaver. Some people don't like it but I have to say it satisfies me just enough to not want to think of some devious way to score pills or smack. But, I've run out of money where I really cannot afford to keep paying the sub doc out of pocket. So what I plan on doing is keep getting my Rx for 16 mg of bupe a day but titrate down to maybe 4-8 mg of bupe. My question is this: I've never really stayed on bupe this long and I know people are inclined to say "less is more" so I'm willing to explore that possibility. Usually when I've done a taper it's been over a couple of weeks. The longest I'd been on the bupe in the past was maybe a couple of months. How easy has it been for those of you who've paired down your dosage? Do you adjust to the lower dosage right away? Should I be concerned that I might be more vulnerable to a relapse or I might start getting preoccupied with scoring full agonist pills or dope again?

I know some of you are probably shocked that LE is actually asking these questions but I really want to ask the masses and see what types of answers I'd get. I've been taking 8 mg the past couple of days and I've got to say, I've been a little more depressed but I'm not even certain whether to chalk that up to stress in my homelife lately or maybe my body adjusting to the lower dosage. I probably should have gone down to 12 mg first but I don't know... I'm eager to read what you guys have to say about that. Thanks.

[duck]

From my experience with bupe, it is probably the opioid with the most serious "diminishing returns." If I take 2mg the difference from zero is a 10. If I take 4mg, the difference from 2mg is a 6. If I take 6mg, the difference is a 2. This works in our--and especially your--favor quite well. You'll be dealing with the inverse function, and that's a good thing. As you drop your dose, the drop will be less impactful from a relief perspective. I started on a higher dose--around 8mg, and am down to 2mg, and while dropping to 25% my original dose, I still feel 75% of the positve effects I was looking for.

This could be inapplicable for higher doses, probably not, but since I do not have experience there, I just wanted to make that addendum. I assume it applies to bupe overall, but, ya know, it's possible it doesn't.

[Poppylvr]

How easy has it been for those of you who've paired down your dosage? Do you adjust to the lower dosage right away? Should I be concerned that I might be more vulnerable to a relapse or I might start getting preoccupied with scoring full agonist pills or dope again?

I know some of you are probably shocked that LE is actually asking these questions but I really want to ask the masses and see what types of answers I'd get. I've been taking 8 mg the past couple of days and I've got to say, I've been a little more depressed but I'm not even certain whether to chalk that up to stress in my homelife lately or maybe my body adjusting to the lower dosage. I probably should have gone down to 12 mg first but I don't know... I'm eager to read what you guys have to say about that. Thanks.
Hey LE - good question.
I'm goping to fess up to some lame bupe taking behavior.
My scripted dose is 8mg/day. What I do almost every weekend, and I KNOW it's idiotic, is to take 16 mg Sat, Sun & sometimes Mon pm. Then the rest of the week I try to get by with 4 mg /day.
So just now, Fri afternoon, after doing exactly what I described, I began to get sick on my 4 mg dose - the loosening of the bowels, the nausea, the sudden awareness of depression that is usually in check, the crawling of the skin. So I have popped 6mg, as I have one more shift tonight & need to be "en forme" for work.
I don't know if that helps, but the sum of my experience is that I can tolerate the drop from 16 to 4 for 3.5 days, and then, almost invariably on Fri afternoon, wd's begin to peek over the horizon & I have to up it to 6 mg.
Yes, it's lame, and I'm trying to get a handle on it. I would like to get down to a steady 2 mg dose, but the never ending siren song of "maybe this weekend I'll feel a little buzz on 16 mgs" calls to me.
I hope this info helps some....

[Seedy]

^^ And do you get a buzz off 16mg in the weekends? Ever?

I average 2mg a day these days, usually a few days a week on 1mg so I can catch a buzz off seeds or pods or oxy. I notice a small buzz taking 4mg after being on ~1mg for a few days in a row. I have just had my few days on 1mg, would I get a better buzz off say 12mg? I dunno, bupe is some erratic shit!

[limitless_euphoria]

Update:

***written last night, sorry fell asleep***

So, tonight after taking three days of only 8 mg of sub in the moring I took an extra 8 mg. OMFG, I actually got STONED!! Yep, I was all nodding out, dropping the remote on the floor like 3-4x and it was like 2/3 the way to a narcotic buzz. Surprisingly I've never played with my dosing quite like that but I guess I've proved the hypothesis that you can cut back your dosage then when you double it....phewww, look out!

So, maybe some of you guys who change dosing throughout the week, maybe you're not as nuts as you give yourself credit for being. :)

[Poppylvr]

^^ And do you get a buzz off 16mg in the weekends? Ever?

I average 2mg a day these days, usually a few days a week on 1mg so I can catch a buzz off seeds or pods or oxy. I notice a small buzz taking 4mg after being on ~1mg for a few days in a row. I have just had my few days on 1mg, would I get a better buzz off say 12mg? I dunno, bupe is some erratic shit!
Yup.
Swhy I keep doing it
See LE's experience........

[Seedy]

^^ I was actually inspired last night to try it out and you're right! 8mg with some St Johns wort to speed up the metabolism got me feeling quite nice for the evening! I think I have a routine sussed out for someone: 4mg monday, 2mg tuesday, 1mg wednesday - thursday, 0.5mg friday - saturday and a big dose on sunday. Swim swaps half their subs for oxy and a few other goodies so from thursday to saturday he can get high on oxy and/or seeds/pods. He's a lucky guy!

[Poppylvr]

^^ I was actually inspired last night to try it out and you're right! 8mg with some St Johns wort to speed up the metabolism got me feeling quite nice for the evening! I think I have a routine sussed out for someone: 4mg monday, 2mg tuesday, 1mg wednesday - thursday, 0.5mg friday - saturday and a big dose on sunday. Swim swaps half their subs for oxy and a few other goodies so from thursday to saturday he can get high on oxy and/or seeds/pods. He's a lucky guy!
SWIM will have to let us know how that works for him. I suspect there will still be enough bup on board to block the full effect of the goodies unless SWIM uses a dangerous amount....

[alowishus]

Fuckers you are all fuckers!!

My 1st time trying sub's I could get a buzz off 2mg or 4mg (can't remember) but then of course I'd chase that high and get nothing, the more I took the less I felt.

Now this time around I can't get anything from any dose, even w/ the St. John's....

I've gotten myself to taking around maybe 1mg (hard to tell when you break up those 8mg pills:rolleyes:) for the past couple days, not every 24 hours but maybe 18 hour because I could feel those cold sweats a-com'in.

So if I take 8mg or more right now I should feel a buzz, slight albeit I know, but that's what you guys are doing and it's working.

Ya see, I want off this shit. The only drug I want to do anymore is weed -of course if someone put a couple OC's or smack in my face I'd.........well I don't know what I'd do. FUCK!!

[limitless_euphoria]

The score after Friday night: Bupe 0, LE: 1
The score after last night: Bupe 1, LE: 1

Allow me to explain... so after Friday night's nod I was eager and willing to do anything to recreate that so I didn't dose at all in the morning but I took two pills late at night. Nothing...absolutely fucking nothing... All I could picture was a surveillence room full of Rickett Benckiser chemists and doctors who loathe junkies all standing together, hobnobbing and laughing maniacally together watching me on a giant 60" LCD panel waiting for my bupe high to no avail! They were pointing and laughing in my mind, mocking me.

That's the thing about it: you can get high off bupe, but you need to have the patience of a Saint. That's why it doesn't work for junkies because the one thing they don't have a lot of is patience! You guys ever feel like that when you thought you were going to possibly catch a buzz and you got bubkis???

[trainwrecker]

I started out about a year and a half ago on 6-8mg when I switched from methadone. It only took me a few months to realize I can get the same effect from 2mg as 8. Over the past year or so I have bounced between .5mg and 1mg a day.

What I do is take a tiny crumb two to three times a day, I rarely get high but when you are on the edge of being sick the relief is enough to lift the spirits. Let me suggest weed too, if you don't already smoke it. That can really help you cut your dose.

[OrangeSubmarine]

I've been taking bupe for about a year now as well, started on 8mg a day (which I'm still prescribed) but in time have learned that the whole "less is more" bupe thing is absolutely true. For several months now though, I have only taken 4mg and then 2mg a day just before I go to bed. It seems that if I fight the mild withdrawals and cravings all day, the amount of relief it gives me from waiting is just a enough to give me a good nights sleep. Which is all I can ask for these days.

I have experimented with taking smaller doses during the week and then trying to double up on the weekends but I have never seemed to persistently get good enough results to make a habit of it. A friend of mine who is currently taking a much higher dose, swears by this method though. I have found that if I really want to get a buzz, I'll try to hold out on taking a dose for a day or two, and then take 8mgs or so. I agree that weed does seem to potentiate the bupe as well.

[limitless_euphoria]

Were it not for weed and bupe I'm not so sure I'd be where I am today. It's reassuring to know I'm not the only one whose desparate enough to try anything to catch a buzz. I mean, yeah--I'm content enough I suppose not having to feel sick or deal with jonsing for full-agonists but it sure takes a lot of patients waiting between doses and wanting to feel really good--and even on Friday night I was only noddy and had a buzz for 90-120 minutes tops. Today I'm going to hold off taking any and then tomorrow and Tuesday I'm going to take half a pill each day. Then Wednesday night I'm going to try taking the full 8 mg and see what that does. But what a pain in the ass--I've got to start planning today for wanting to catch a couple hour long buzz on friggin' Wednesday. I guess in the eyes of medicine this really is the perfect thing for instant gratification loving junkies. I also plan on saving up some pot to smoke about 1/2 hour after I dose Wednesday night. If regular pills took this much effort to plan for I highly doubt any of us would have become junkies in the first place! lol :D

[Chuck]

Thank you LE & everyone else for the the info on your experiences with the sub. I'm very eager to see how it turns out. I only take sub on the days I can't get H ,ergo i just did my last bag and tonight I'm thinking I'm gonna haveto take a little 2mg peice to sleep but tomorrow its back to the H train.

sorry for being suck a loon when I first arrived.

YOUR ANONYMOUS PAL,
C