World Trade Center conspiracy [Archive]

Zoop

05-04-2006, 02:42 AM

Tar_Baby

05-04-2006, 07:15 AM

I seen something like this once, I can't look at the video right now because I use a slow connection from my cave in Afghanistan, but is this video the one that says something about the little gas station/convenience store right next to the Pentagon that had a video surveillance camera that caught the whole thing, impact and everything on tape? And it says that military people right after the crash came over and confiscated the tape and hvae yet to give it back? I think they also say something about the Sheraton hotel just up the road about a quarter mile, on a hill which overlooks the side of the pentagon that got hit, and this hotel also had a camera (on the roof, I think) that caught the whole thing, and their tapes were immediately taken after the crash too, never to be returned to them.

It is intriguing, no doubt, but it is totally off the mark to suggest that the attacks on the 11th of September 2001 had anything to do with other than insanely evil Islamic fundamentalists. These things, these unanswered questions that the video refers to are not known because it involves secret information that, if released, would hinder the search for the perpetrators and the fight against terrorism in general. Anyone who would suggest that we ARE NOT in a total war with these evil fuckwad terrorists, a war for the very existence of Western Liberal Democracy, and the freedoms that it comes with, is not in reality. Regardless of what you think about President Bush, or any shit like that, you gotta understand right off the top, from jump, that we in a war wif some crazy mufuckkas dat need tuh bee keeled, be fo' dey keel uss.:p

There were/are actually 80 ( yes eighty) surveillance videos confiscated from various hotels/gas stations etc etc around the pentagon...they only released the one with like 4 frames, and even that has frames removed where you cant see what the fuck hit..
Why? this is not a national security issue ( the visual of the plane impacting)

Not to mention the molten steel in the trade center rubble weeks after attack ( kerosene/jet fuel my ass)
Or the fact that steel reinforcemnt beams were ejected hundreds of feet outward from top of Towers ..

The official story defies serveral laws of physics..3000 some odd innocent people were murdered via remote controlled planes and controlled demolition..and people need to be held accountable

If our govt didnt outright plan and execute this...they allowed it to happen.

Tar_Baby

05-04-2006, 07:17 AM

Cornburglar

05-04-2006, 07:24 AM

By the way. I want to thank you guys for being able to discuss this in a mature open minded manner.
I have posted this on other sites and was visciously attacked and in 2 cases outright banned from the sites for linking this documentary with no comment attached.
Figures that my fellow junkies are more rational than "Normal" people ( and I do use the term normal loosely)

Zoop and I have already gone around the block on this general topic.

I happen to believe that the attack on the WTC (in addition to the OK city bombing) was performed by our government in an effort to gain public support for a long term occupation of Iraq.

Tar_Baby

05-04-2006, 07:31 AM

I seen something like this once, I can't look at the video right now because I use a slow connection from my cave in Afghanistan, but is this video the one that says something about the little gas station/convenience store right next to the Pentagon that had a video surveillance camera that caught the whole thing, impact and everything on tape? And it says that military people right after the crash came over and confiscated the tape and hvae yet to give it back? I think they also say something about the Sheraton hotel just up the road about a quarter mile, on a hill which overlooks the side of the pentagon that got hit, and this hotel also had a camera (on the roof, I think) that caught the whole thing, and their tapes were immediately taken after the crash too, never to be returned to them.

It is intriguing, no doubt, but it is totally off the mark to suggest that the attacks on the 11th of September 2001 had anything to do with other than insanely evil Islamic fundamentalists. These things, these unanswered questions that the video refers to are not known because it involves secret information that, if released, would hinder the search for the perpetrators and the fight against terrorism in general. Anyone who would suggest that we ARE NOT in a total war with these evil fuckwad terrorists, a war for the very existence of Western Liberal Democracy, and the freedoms that it comes with, is not in reality. Regardless of what you think about President Bush, or any shit like that, you gotta understand right off the top, from jump, that we in a war wif some crazy mufuckkas dat need tuh bee keeled, be fo' dey keel uss.:p

What about the alleged hijackers that turned up alive after 9/11?
How did they fly the Boeings off course , and into targets with no transponder? You cant navigate a 767 like you would a car ..ie : you cant really see where you are going out the window to take it off course then aim it at a target at 500 ish mph...Especially from that altitude and above clouds..
This was a carefully executed black ops mission~ Govt had motive and ability and gained more than anyone from this.. Hitler did the same shit by burning the reichstag..Just like the govt knew about Pearl Harbor and let it happen to rally everyone behind ww2..
Its also common knowledge that the FBI supplied the bombs for the 1st WTC attack. The info is all there..
This is beyond Bush, who is at best a puppet...

Tar_Baby

05-04-2006, 07:32 AM

Zoop and I have already gone around the block on this general topic.

I happen to believe that the attack on the WTC (in addition to the OK city bombing) was performed by our government in an effort to gain public support for a long term occupation of Iraq.
Well I apologize for making a new thread on the topic..had i realized this was already discussed I would have just bumped and posted to that thread.
Also, I agree with you 100 % ...they also gained tighter control over us with patriot act and managed to do away with that pesky constitution..Its obvious once you understand the big picture

Kallie

05-04-2006, 08:28 AM

I watched the 1st few minutes, Tar Baby, and I want to see the rest before any comment. Looks incredibly interesting, regardless. And also wanted to compliment you on your nice forum manners... Zoop, Cornburger, Def and Alow, too. Sincerely. We DO have something very special here at o-phile... evidenced by the ability to take red-hot topics and discuss them w/o having a complete melt-down. Healthy, intelligent dialogue. Love it....

alowishus

05-04-2006, 08:29 AM

There came a point after 9/11 not really sure when, not long after, but I ketp this thought to myself, this most fucking outrageous thought had just popped into my head, like it wasn't even my thoughts just out of nowhere, from nothing, I wasn't even thinking about 9/11.
".......what if the G-ment is behind all this......."
Then I started to try to put it together, I mean just sitting there thinking, I must be a bad person and really F'ed up to think about stuff like this. And I didn't say anything about it until 2003 when a co-worked expressed a similar thought, and I told him what I thought; we both got cold chills and never really talked about it after.

Ya see I don't know if I want to know the truth, would it make a difference, what could we change. If you think we're gonna overthrow the G-ment, think again. There will be no changes of any consequence or good made by just our means, we have so long ago given away our rights to that in order to live as consumers. You want a good read look up some quotes by Jefferson, too bad his thoughts, pratical in his day, are of no meaning today.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

siggy

05-04-2006, 08:53 AM

We can't take a defeatist attitude - it is the same thing as total apathy. Everyone I talk to has the same attitude, "What can I do about it?" To begin with, write or e-mail your congress persons, contact as many other people as you can to discuss the issues, get p[eople to discussing the FACTS. There are so many ignorant folks that continue to believe that Bush and Jesus Christ hang out together, that he is a good Christian lad and would never do anything wrong. He is pure evil and responsible for the deaths of 230,000 Iraqi civilians. The easiest way to get someone to see the light, is to get them to imagine the Chinese invading this country with no provocation, telling us what type of government we were going to have and try to imagine what your response would be? Wouldn't you feel like blasting every chinaman you came across? Well, that's what the insurgents are doing in Iraq...they want us the hell out of THEIR country. They had nothing to do with 9/11, no WMD's. I will probably get replies from some doofusses saying I am not patriotic, I don't suport the troops - well, in advance, let me say "FUCK YOU, RETARD!" I have more patriotism in my left nut than your whole pathetic flag-waving body. This country was a great country at one time, but look what it has become, what we have let it become...a fucking dictatorship with a bunch of pussy yes-men lolling in Congress, going along with whatever President Cheney, oops, Bush want to further enrich Halliburton and other robber corporations. But, when you see Iraqis as sub-human, lesser people than we great consumers here, people don't see it as a problem - fuck, they probably cry over movies like "Gorillas in the Mist" when an ape gets killed, or when they watch some Greenpeace special about some whales getting slaughteed, but Iraqi men, women & children? Aw, go ahead and shoot down that cute little 3 year old, she's less than a fucking monkey to begin with? What the hell is wrong with this country that no one can see the hypocrisy, the lies, the evil? 9/11? There are so many short-comings to the official explanation, it is laughable almost. If there is even one lie involved, then the whole stupid version of their truth becomes more than suspect - if they lied about one thing, then they probably lied about a lot more. No wreckage was found at the Pentagon, the first reporters on the scene said they saw none. Anyone with doubts, go online and start looking at the issues, the anomalies and just keep an open mind and see what you wind up believing....I too at one time said no sitting President would ever do such a thing to the prople in American - what a naive ass I was. So, keep on believing in the President, Mom, and apple pie - at least there is some good to the last two.

Cornburglar

05-04-2006, 09:47 AM

Well I apologize for making a new thread on the topic..had i realized this was already discussed I would have just bumped and posted to that thread.
Also, I agree with you 100 % ...they also gained tighter control over us with patriot act and managed to do away with that pesky constitution..Its obvious once you understand the big picture

Oh no, please don't take it that way. I was just pointing it out to you so you could kind of get a picture of the political discussions that have taken place in the past. I'm totally psyched that you posted this! No apologies necessary. In fact, the more posts about the fact that Bush's administration is wiping their collective asses with the constitution, the better.

...heh... talk about a good troll post... lets get them red states fired up

nikz

05-04-2006, 11:28 PM

caesee

05-05-2006, 02:08 AM

here's my opinion...

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g99/oathrocks/impeachBush-troops-280.gif (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g99/oathrocks/?)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g99/oathrocks/FixNews-180.gif (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g99/oathrocks/?)

katomic

05-05-2006, 07:50 AM

No offence I know you yanks are very patriotic but your government is dirty mine are probably too but yours are filthy and I recon they always have been.

The U.S is a scary country because they have got the fire power to go do what they want (still better you than china) the war was illegal but no one did anything to stop the U.S and there allies. The U.S is the new world order.

The attacks where about gaining more control over the people and so bush and his poodles can go invade to perhaps gain control over oil or set up some bases to keep an eye on the surrounding countries. The US like there bases allot this is so they can attack anywhere in the world in a tiny amount of time. I thinks its less than a hour.

Is you gov still working on that star wars project? Cos that’s sick talk about world domination!

Did you know your gov own part of Monsanto? The company that is trying to create the terminator gene (although it was stopped a few days ago, at least for now), the current GM crops are infecting normal crops what if this did, just Imagine the control they would have over much of the worlds population its sick!

Don’t fire that missile these are just my thoughts I don’t mean to offend anyone
K

reddragon3668

05-05-2006, 09:23 AM

I have felt a long time that the Iraq war was and is all about oil. So much has been said about human rights violations, but that is so hypocritical. We knew about that for years and years. Now, while we tout these reasons to justify what we're doing in Iraq, the Sudanese Government is sytematically committing genocide against their own people in Darfur. We went in to Vietnam (no offense to Vietnam veterans) as liberators, and simply ignored Pot's regime in Cambodia that killed millions of people. In my opinion, there have been few just wars in human history, and especially in modern times and where the US is concerned, we have engaged in allot of politically motivated miltary actions. The arbitrary nature of it is staggering. Katomic is right, it is a scary proposition for the US to have such power and the will to excercise it subjectively. And, it is not hard to understand why there is allot of hate for the US abroad given allot of our inequitable foreign policies. For instance... we attack Iraq for alledged weapons of mass destruction and let North Korea get by with it.... I, for one, will have allot of difficulty trusting my government in the future.

There will be no changes of any consequence or good made by just our means, we have so long ago given away our rights to that in order to live as consumers.
I agree totally. A good book on some of these topics has been written by Keven Phillips; a renowned republican. Its a newly released book that I plan to read soon, entitled American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st century. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/067003486X/104-1586620-2146312)

Opiyum

08-05-2006, 01:54 AM

http://www.loosechange911.com/

Okay so I haven't necessarily been seeking these kind of documentaries out but a few have fallen in my lap over the years and I personally think the evidence is damning and the injustice outraging. This is quite the touchy subject and I'm sure I may hear some shit from some people about this but that is understandable. Afterall when the media brainwashes you, for going on six years, you may experience some "withdrawals". It's a shock to say the least and people don't like what they perceive to be reality to be shattered or put into question.
Basically the documentary I have posted here is calling into question BinLaden's involvment in 911. It directs questions to those who weren't asked questions after the "attack". It's saying that it was an inside job.
I want to make that clear so you know what your in for.
If anyone wants to put their two cents in on the subject please watch the documentary first. That's what this thread is about. If you already have a firm stance on the subject derived from CNN FOX NBC ABC CBS and last and at the same time least MSNBC then I dont want to hear from you. Go start your own thread.

I, for instance, already had my own opinions on the subject prior to seeing this film but this just helped to solidify it. Although there are a few things in it that I'm not so sure are 100% accurate. Which is why I'm posting it here. I would like to discuss these "issues" in question with others who may have some sort of priviledged information.
I also do this because that's one of the only things you can do with this kind of information, at least when it's in it's infancy which this is, and that is to share it with others.
I believe that I will see in my lifetime a police state unless some people start taking some serious action. If you talk to the right people, like the ones who experienced the wrath of the Miami Model(google it), you'll see that from a certain perspective we are already living in a police state.

As I said please don't post your beliefs when it comes to 911. I just want to talk about this perticular documentary.
I realize that I have expressed my beliefs on 911 and for this reason some people may find it necessary to balance out the thread by posting their, equaly important, but opposite opinion. Well....all I can say is trust me those of us on the other side of the fence are very aware of your presence. Im rattling now....Anyway...I've said it twice and to say it again would be an insult to the reader. I imagine it will be awhile before anyone actually watches this so I'll wait to post the things that I question about this documentary.
Enjoy and keep an open mind.

poonwhalla

08-05-2006, 02:07 AM

as L ron hoover said coincidence I think not...the church of aplintoligy

PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO

08-05-2006, 02:19 AM

its always good whether one disagrees or not to hear another side of a story...so i applaud you for that. Im interested in checking out the documentary i just dont have the time right now but id like to talk about this more possibly once i check it out. peace

poonwhalla

08-05-2006, 02:25 AM

damn dude I gotta find the shit pops sent to me about no plane crashed at the pent. Science is science but it is hard to not put my opinion in here due to the fact that Iknew way too many people at the shit. biting me tung

Opiyum

08-05-2006, 02:44 AM

I appreciate that Poon. I too had relatives in the towers and I think that is all the more reason to dig into this as deep as we possibly can. Many of the surviving family members and loved ones of those lost in the murders are still not convinced. I am one of them. I want to know what really happened and anyone who calls into question that, need to know, is afraid of something. Maybe they are afraid of going to jail. Like the owner of the World Trade Center who took out a 9.2 Billion dollar Insurance policy on the buildings in the event of a terrorist attack two weeks before their collapse.
Unfortunatley we will never know what happened to the plane at the pentagon because the day of the attack all surveillance video camera's in the local parking lots and gas station were confiscated. Though months later the government did release five frames from a hotel parking lot camera pointed directly at the site of the "crash". Not one frame shows a plane. Oh yeah go look at any plane crash that has ever been captured on film and you'll see that it is ,as you said, scientifically impossible for a plane to vaporize. This was the governments expaination. Notice there isnt any evidence of a plane of the lawn of the pentagon. Oh and if the plane completely incinerated then how did they find one of the hijackers Social Security cards.
Anyone notice that of all the hijackers that we were told were on those planes 75% of them are alive and well? Most have no ties to Al Queda to begin with.

Okay I could go on forever here and know that this wasn't directed at you Poon. You jsut brought it out of me that's all. I do appreciate your concern for those that were lost and am in the same boat as you.

I just hope that a good portion of the people on this site take the time to watch this and then maybe you can start asking some questions of your own.

poonwhalla

08-05-2006, 02:50 AM

unfortunately there is no question that will have an answer the ultimate question what really happened I just know there is more than meets the eye!propaganda and all

Opiyum

08-05-2006, 03:01 AM

Well that's the point of this whole thread my man. To hash out the validity of the "propaganda" or information or Bullshit or knowledge or whatever you want to lable it as.
So all I can ask of you is to watch it otherwise we aren't getting anywhere.
That's all I have to say until you watch it bra.
Good night

poonwhalla

08-05-2006, 03:05 AM

Who watch wha? I'll try

alowishus

08-05-2006, 03:27 AM

Download and left click and pick "open with" pick your browser, IE or whatever you use.
Of course you need to un-rar 1st......:rolleyes:

http://www.win-rar.com/download.html
For trial WINRAR software.

clinton

08-05-2006, 04:04 AM

prinsonplanet.com has some interesting stuff

Opiyum

08-05-2006, 02:34 PM

Looks like I missed this thread. I y'all want to get rid o' the "Inside Job" Thread feel free. I don't see it going anywhere to begin with plus it's already been covered here.

dorje

08-05-2006, 10:25 PM

Sorry but it's already wrapped up tighter than a junkies asshole. No one is going to know what happened. JUst as no one knows the Kennedy mystery. Once they take all the tapes they burn them unless they are as stupid as Nixon which they are not, The time for truth has passed.

Opiyum

08-06-2006, 12:12 AM

Well I'm glad that you seem to have it all figured out.

alowishus

08-06-2006, 12:13 AM

Well I'm glad that you seem to have it all figured out.

He's one of THEM.

You know the type, Scully & Mulder.

Opiyum

08-06-2006, 12:20 AM

alowishus

08-06-2006, 12:28 AM

Yeah we might as well go ahead and delete this thread. I didn't realize the subject had already been covered in Tar Babies "World Trade Center Conspiracy" Thread. I think it was posted right before I first got to this site.
It's not going to go anywhere and it seems that my original reason for posting it isn't going to ever be discussed. It's just a bit too touchy of a subject. Stirs up to many deep seeded emotions in people.
So as to save space on the site feel free to delete it. Shaunclo Exitwound, Zkiller, Karen....? Anyone?

AW THANKS I took all that time to RAR a file for you and you don't even watch it.....man.:(

*wipes a tear from his ass*

I have tear ducts in my but, so what wanta make sump'in of it....:mad:

You should see what happens when I blow my nose....

roland2661

08-06-2006, 02:27 AM

opiyum- Yeah we might as well go ahead and delete this thread

You can't throw that out there and say forget it..... I just got in and we're going to sleep, but I will watch the documentary and comment tomorrow. You are obviously very passionate about this subject. A coworkers wife who worked for TJ Max was heading to LA for business. When we all found out it was her flight for sure.... It hits hard for me too.

I'll leave you with this old, and often misused theory, until I watch the documentary:

OCCUM'S RAZOR- "When you have two competing theories which make exactly the same predictions, the one that is simpler is the better."
Franciscan friar; William of Occam

clinton

08-06-2006, 02:55 AM

the one where people gain is the better.....

HistoryofMadness

08-06-2006, 07:47 AM

We should discuss both... the doc and the day. I do think there are things that we don't know, but I don't think it was an inside job. I know people are ruthless, but (1) its really hard for me to believe there's a crime syndicate that's worked that meticulously and coldly, and (2) conspiracy theories in my mind give the government way too much credit. . . it takes an act of fucking congress to get the military new toilets, literally... and to think that there were so many people in, and after so much heartache, not one single conspirator broke and talked...

I'll be back to discuss the documentary if you're still interested opiyum... just like you don't like opinions programmed by fox et al, I don't like the idea of watching either this video or the networks without doing a little research. And I mean actual historical research into documents and such... you really that interested?

'Cause if you are, I've got resources, and I'm sure you do too...

Fleeting_Glimpse

08-06-2006, 09:58 AM

"And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower – the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident." - G. W. Bush

But how did he see the first plane hit the world trade centre? especially since news coverage didnt start hapening until after it had hit, also he said a similiar quote in another interview about seeing the first plane hit, could he have organized it? I guess its true we will never know, but I think thats a pretty good documentary and all should check out

dorje

08-06-2006, 10:10 AM

Why would a secret governmental operation with unlimited resources, techological expertise and trained killers let anyone here know the truth?? They just got sloppy? Had WD's from the pod tea? These guys can sell ice all day to the Eskimos, they either don't care that people know the story is different or they are in control of the list of who believes the alternative story. Once again, the days of the intrepid cub reporter who finds out about the big conspiracy and saves the planet are over. Any media is a lie..The supercomputers record your phone calls and Internet chats...Your civil rights died and no one showed up for the funeral...and it's all owned by Coca-Cola and all they care about is selling more sugar water not the truth.

roland2661

08-06-2006, 11:53 AM

Well opiyum I watched the doc. Please do not take this as personal disrespect. I'm commenting on the doc not your opinions.

The complete lack of just minor knowledge of simple engineering and basic physics is ridicules. They present no real evidence to back almost anything that is offered as fact. I will comment on just the Pentagon as an example:
Please just go find a pic or vid of tornado damage as an example. Small pieces of wood and soft metals go through concrete brick walls and continue through a homes interior walls. When a 100 ton aluminum tub traveling at that altitude probably around 300+mph the aluminum will basically evaporate from the heat. Have you ever just bent a soft piece of metal repeatedly? It will get warm and soften. Imagine adding exploding jet fuel to that. The round hole with no wing or tail patterns is caused from drag. If you watch NASCAR or the Tour de France that is when an object moving creates air pocket behind it. It will pull an object along with it. So what you see is no large pieces of debri on the exterior because it was pulled into the hole. After the fire was exstinguish they did find many pieces of small debri and that is exactly what should have happened.

One last comment: Any gains that our government could possibly get from an operation along the magnitude of 9/11 would not compare to cost of getting caught. It would involve dozens of countries and thousands of people to remain silent. Just like O.J. was set up right? I'm not an advocate for our government or it's policies. I'm personally against almost everything it has done. People do insane things that are not comprehendible to rational thinkers. I hope you all the best in finding your answers.

Coddfish

08-06-2006, 12:05 PM

I was not in this country on that day, in fact I had just started a 2 year stint overseas less than 2 weeks earlier (it was weird knowing I COULD'T come home). And some things struck me later. When I heard from my dad about the first plane immediaely after it happened, I instantly thought it was a an attack, but it seemed like most people here thought it was an accident until they heard about the 2nd plane. I mean, the government, from the pres on down, should have instantly known it was not an accident, especially if they had practices on EXACTLY that sort of thing.

And after a week or two I thought 'What does this mean? Who did that benefit?' It seemed clear enough that a few thousand lives were a small price to pay in order to catalyze a major reorganization of government, and concentrate power at the top. Not to mention a free pass to go after the 'enemy.' I saw the thing from a different perspective, not flooded with the pain and misery and fear for days on end, so I think it appeared a little different to me, and the whole thing looked squirrelly right away.

But as to the doc, I watched it, and to say it is biased is an understatement, a more comprehensive piece would have been more effective and less 'wacko conspiracy theory,' IMO. Some of the questions asked are legitimate, but some are simply silly because the answers will be so obvious.

ex. What is a gov't official gonna say about the 'secondary explosions?' There was a fucking jumbo jet full of fuel that hit the building, weird shit happens.

ex. So the guy bought an insurance policy that paid him 2.2 billion. It actually sounds like he got kinda screwed. Didn't he just take the buildings over? Wouldn't it make sense to buy insurance? Out of all the thousands of coincidences in all that mess, be they people who missed those flights or whatever, why is this one especially odd? There is an explanation for it, and unless there is proof that something was fishy with that guy, it stands as legit. I don't like it, but it just does.

ex. and trying to connect that conservative think tank or whatever it is to a reorganization of government through 'another Pearl Harbor'. . . . . . well, there are millions of pages of shit like that all over the place with all kinds of peoples' names on it. You could connect gov't officials to the anthrax scare and all kinds of other stuff easily enough if you tried.

And I don't like the way the doc repeatedly takes one expert opinion or one letter, often from people not even connected to the investigation, and acts like "THIS is the real deal, everyone else is covering up." And they fail to source some pretty big parts of their argument.

All this being said, I do think it happened pretty much the way it's laid out in the doc, but the weak points hurt it's credibility.

zombiewoof23

08-06-2006, 12:21 PM

Yeah we might as well go ahead and delete this thread. I didn't realize the subject had already been covered in Tar Babies "World Trade Center Conspiracy" Thread. I think it was posted right before I first got to this site.
It's not going to go anywhere and it seems that my original reason for posting it isn't going to ever be discussed. It's just a bit too touchy of a subject. Stirs up to many deep seeded emotions in people.
So as to save space on the site feel free to delete it. Shaunclo Exitwound, Zkiller, Karen....? Anyone?

I think the thread took off pretty well with some new fresh comments. If anything the 2 threads could be combined and messages such as the one I'm quoting here could be erased.

blackdog

08-06-2006, 01:13 PM

Badass vid here

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change&pl=true

fucking a conspiracy.is right.
go ahead and try, hit that thread and tell me if there is a possible conspiricy or not??
peace da/dawgg

Zoop

08-06-2006, 01:40 PM

Conspiracy my foot. In the marketplace of ideas, this one is not selling well, to put it lightly.

Why did Osama admit to doing it in those videotapes he releases? I mean he's more than once alluded to the "glorious 19 martyrs" or something like that. There was also a videotape of bin Laden et al having a nice family dinner in Afghanistan, which was found after we went over there and took out the Taliban. Osama is discussing in detail how he didn't think the plane crashes would cause the amount of damage that they did - he says that the fire was much hotter than he had anticipated. Osama bin Laden is an architectural engineer by schooling, he knows what he's talking about.

Huge amounts of jet fuel and pleny of air will indeed create a fire that will melt steel. A friggin wood fire will melt steel if it's given plenty of air!

I bet yall think all the JEWS who worked at WTC were warned in advance before 9/11 and didn't show up for work! Gimmeafrigginbreak.

it's comical. This kind of conspiracy dross is more dangerous than if there actually was a U.S. Govt. conspiracy to commit mass murder, in the form of 9/11. It completely ignores the fact that there is a huge world movement, based on extremist Muslim ideology, that wants to DESTROY all people who are not Muslim and all people who would advocate Western Liberal Democracy. You people would be the first against the wall, gettin machine-gunned if these freakin clowns took over!

An update re the post I had up there from earlier this year - those tapes which were confiscated from the gas station owner (by the Pentagon) and from the Sheraton hotel right up the road from the Pentagon, were all returned. You know what? There's an airplane on 'em. As a matter of fact, an object going 500+ mph is too fast for a regular old video camera to catch! One frame there's the Pentagon, and the next frame, there' an explosion and fireball.

All I need to say is that this theory - this conspiracy theory - is so obviously on its face a fabrication that all you gotta do is just look at how seriously people take it. Those on both sides of hte political spectrum know and understand the threat posed by the Muslim extremist movement in the world today.

OBTW if Iraq as "a war for oil," then were the hell is my twenty-five cent a gallon gas!

ItchyandScratchy

08-06-2006, 02:21 PM

I personally don't believe the conspiracy theories, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Here is a link to an opposing viewpoint, should anyone want to read it: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

The site that it is from is one of my favorites. Also at the bottom of the article is a link to a popular mechanics article that debunks the theories one by one. It is long, but an interesting read.

zombiewoof23

08-06-2006, 06:09 PM

I love Maddox. That has been one of my favorite sites for years.

alowishus

08-06-2006, 07:14 PM

I will comment on just the Pentagon as an example:
Please just go find a pic or vid of tornado damage as an example. Small pieces of wood and soft metals go through concrete brick walls and continue through a homes interior walls. When a 100 ton aluminum tub traveling at that altitude probably around 300+mph the aluminum will basically evaporate from the heat. Have you ever just bent a soft piece of metal repeatedly? It will get warm and soften. Imagine adding exploding jet fuel to that. The round hole with no wing or tail patterns is caused from drag. If you watch NASCAR or the Tour de France that is when an object moving creates air pocket behind it. It will pull an object along with it. So what you see is no large pieces of debri on the exterior because it was pulled into the hole. After the fire was exstinguish they did find many pieces of small debri and that is exactly what should have happened.

Did you watch what I posted, the plane was flying at 580mph not 300+ and it was 24 inches off the ground, according to the official report; and the rest of your bent metal, NASCAR, air pocket thing is by far the biggest load of horse poopie I've ever heard. Please tell me how a 40-50 foot wing TWO of them follows the "air pocket" into a whole 3x times smaller and then vanishes, not to mention the wooden furniture left UNBURNT at the impact site by all that fuel. Not to mention NO IMPACT SITE just a hole in the wall.....

Listen I'm not going to get into it will you about this. Your pseudo-physics or lack there of you let shine brightly. I don't know what hit the pentagon, but I do know it was not a 757. I don't mean to be
discourteous but your facts or your explanation of them is elementary at best, and well, wrong. As the caveman said "next time do a little research"

Opiyum

08-07-2006, 12:56 AM

Well opiyum I watched the doc. Please do not take this as personal disrespect. I'm commenting on the doc not your opinions. The only thing that offends me is the fact that you think I could be offended by your opinion.

I definately don't take this Doc. as gospel. Just want to put that out there. In fact there are parts that I think are hilarious. Especially the end when the dude asks "Are you mad yet....YOu should be" LOL The kid who nararrated this thing does not have a good voice for it. Doesn't seem to have hit puberty yet. I think that is truly one of the reasons alot of people dont take what he is saying seriously. He just sounds very juvaniele.

Anyway.
One of the main things I question is the supposed 100 billion dollars worth of gold underneath the towers. Is there any record of this. Does anyone know for certain? Any direction someone could point me in to read up on this?

As far a plane with engines that weigh six tons each and parts made of titanium and to say that this would fold up into a small hole in the side of a building just doesnt add up. There are glass windows right next to the hole in the pent. that are perfectly intact. WTF?

and trying to connect that conservative think tank or whatever it is to a reorganization of government through 'another Pearl Harbor'. . . . . . well, there are millions of pages of shit like that all over the place with all kinds of peoples' names on it. You could connect gov't officials to the anthrax scare and all kinds of other stuff easily enough if you tried.

Yeah all this proves is that the govenrment is smart enough to have their fingers in every pie. Confusing those trying to assemble the pieces. Like us

And those who dont think the government could pull of this operation confuse me. Does anyone realize how much planning goes into essembling an army by ground, air and sea and then maneuvering this mass of tanks, ships, planes and people into a country?
The thing is if it was a cover-up then that makes the whole thing that much easier. Because every aspect of it could have been in the works for decades. Not to mention you dont have to hijake any planes. Setting up demolitions would be relatively easy especially if you have the ability to access the building any time you want under complete cover. "Oh those guys are just the exterminators....go about your day....Heres a TV....watch it and you'll feel better." The planning would have been the hardest part but the execution woudn't have been all that difficult.

As far as the steel melting and collapsing of the buildings....Noone finds it a little suspicious that the three buildings that fell on that day are the first three ever to fall because of a fire. Shit they were burning for less than an hour. Anyhow if the top was the part that was weakened than dont you think the top would have been the thing that would have fallen. When demolition crews implode buildings they go for the foundation. That's a pretty basic thing. If buildings collapsed that neatly and easily with only a small portion of the building on fire then why do demolition crews go to all that trouble setting up Charges all throughout buildings.

And I don't like the way the doc repeatedly takes one expert opinion or one letter, often from people not even connected to the investigation, and acts like "THIS is the real deal, everyone else is covering up." And they fail to source some pretty big parts of their argument.

Yes damn them for showing someone elses opinion. That's what your saying right. Oh and damn them for showing one persons opinion go from "there is no way those buildings could have fallen like that just because of a fire" to ten days later "The fire caused the fall."

Small pieces of wood and soft metals go through concrete brick walls and continue through a homes interior walls. When a 100 ton aluminum tub traveling at that altitude probably around 300+mph the aluminum will basically evaporate from the heat. Have you ever just bent a soft piece of metal repeatedly? It will get warm and soften. Imagine adding exploding jet fuel to that. The round hole with no wing or tail patterns is caused from drag

Okay yeah I see what your saying though I dont think it makes a lick of a difference seeing that professional pilots say that the maneuver the hijackers would have to of pulled off would have been immposible. Iguess if you believe there wasn't a plane in the first place then it doesn't make a difference debating the size of the hole a plane would make.

Little personal story you can believe me or not but it doesnt matter to me because I was there....
I was working night turn on the pennsylvania turnpike(Heavy Highway construction, asphault, milling etc.) in Somerset County within a five mile radius of the crash when the "plane" hit the ground. We were working night shift. We would start around 4:00pm and work till the next morning around at roughly8am. We were staying in a hotel nearby. The night before the crash we were removed from the road earlier than normal. There were no complaints from the workers...Me included. So we got back to our hotels around midnight and were told to be at the meeting site the next morning around seven am. Our foreman was trying to get the permission for us to get on the road the next morning earlier because we were kicked off so early the night before. So we arived at the meet spot at seven(some more like seven thirty) and were told we wouldn't be working that morning or for the next few days with no explanation. SO we were told to check out of the rooms and head home. I left the hotel around 8:30am headed for home. I live one hour and fifteen minutes up I76/I70 from the site. I walked in the door to find my mother on the couch eyes glued to the TV. Honestly I was so drained from work that when she said "We are under attack" I kinda passed it off and promptly passed out on my bed. Later in the afternoon I awoke to the begginings of a NEW WORLD ORDER.

To be clear the road I76 would have been the only road to access the "wreckage" which was afterall non-exsistent. The few days that followed I was like most americans glued to the TV. I alr
eady had my own opinions on the subject within the first week.
It was funny how when we got back to work noone thought anything of the strange cancelation of work.

WOW I just realized how long this post was...sorry.

roland2661

08-07-2006, 02:08 AM

Opiyum

08-07-2006, 02:31 AM

Wow man. I only commented on one thing you said and I simpy asked a question.
I realisze this has nothing to do with opiates. That's pretty clear from the get go.
So why did you post your opinion in the first place.
I can tolerate your opinion and still question your reasoning can't I?
I apologize?

alowishus

08-07-2006, 02:52 AM

Wow. I guess your tolerant of others opinions as long as they're are the same as yours. I came to this forum to trade updated knowledge about good drugs, not 9/11.

alowishus and opiyum: You two have too much time in here for me to get into a pissing match with ya. Peace, Love, Dope:)

</IMG>

Haven't you ever had a debate or a differing of opinion conversation?
That's what it is one person takes one side of an issue the other takes the other side.....:rolleyes:
No one wants a pissing match, I stated as much and apologized ahead of time if your twitchy little toes got stepped on.....someone that can't hack it and runs off when his points of view come under question shouldn't be in a pissing match anyway. And insofaras tolerance goes your wrong again, we need someone to have an opposite opinion, other wise the debate don't work!!!

You made some pretty bad references to some things you stated as being factual, and you got called on it.
Strap you nuts back on and watch what we are referencing, so we'll all be on the same page.
I mean what the fuck; does your mother know you're on the computer this late. I don't tell people how to fix up because I've NO knowledge on the subject, and I don't pretend too. For fucks sake here's a hanky.

Opi, nice use of the "Multi-quote"!!! Nice in deed

roland2661

08-07-2006, 03:36 AM

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

An excellent article I got too from a posting by ItchyandScatchy.

Opiyum

08-07-2006, 03:38 AM

I do my best to do my...best? what......mmmmmmpillow sleeepyyy face time...bye!

Coddfish

08-07-2006, 09:13 AM

Yes damn them for showing someone elses opinion. That's what your saying right. Oh and damn them for showing one persons opinion go from "there is no way those buildings could have fallen like that just because of a fire" to ten days later "The fire caused the fall."

No, that's not what I said. That's the thing, they often didn't show someone else's opinion, just one person's and acted like 'THIS is the real deal.' The cell phone thing comes to mind: That guy, whoever he was, did some silly experiment that did NOT replicate the hijacked plane scenario and extrapolated some statistics and came up with a 'those cell phone calls were impossible.' That's it. Could never have happened, right? I call bullshit, at least that guy didn't prove anything. I used to live in a place where cell phones didn't work cause there were no towers nearby. That 'experiment' could have been fudged at worst, and wasn't really legit to begin with, since it took place in conditions altogether different from the 'hijacking.' I dunno, that whole part was pretty weak. It's not hard for anyone to try a cell call from a plane and see if it works.

Some of it was interesting, and I would like to know why the guy seemingly chanaged his story about the fire causing the fall, but I could, off the top of my head, say that a lot of information was learned in the 10 days after the crash and maybe he saw things differently. I forget who he was, though, and why his opinion mattered.

Paregoric Kid

08-07-2006, 03:14 PM

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

mort

08-07-2006, 03:45 PM

roland2661

08-07-2006, 03:56 PM

The conspiracy theories are part of all the big tragic events. This news today is probably more in the league of what our government takes out the VP's playbook:

The Associated Press
By MARY PEMBERTON

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) — BP PLC said Monday it will replace 73 percent of the pipelines from the nation's largest oil field and that production could be closed for weeks or months, crimping the nation's oil supplies at a time of peak demand.

Opiyum

08-07-2006, 05:09 PM

Actually Codd I think I know what you were saying better than you. The fact that you would try and debate that is obsurd....hehe...Anyway I hear what your saying.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html)

An excellent article I got too from a posting by ItchyandScatchy.

THat was a good article Roland. The only thing I noticed was that the article didnt cover many things that were in the Doc.. There were some good arguments for sure but I didnt like how they would state a claim and then they would label as fact what some guy had to say about it. So some of the issues didn't add up with me but most of all they missed alot of the little things that were in the Doc..

Thanks again for your two cents.

alowishus

08-07-2006, 06:28 PM

The only thing I noticed was that the article didnt cover many things that were in the Doc.. There were some good arguments for sure but I didnt like how they would state a claim and then they would label as fact what some guy had to say about it. So some of the issues didn't add up with me but most of all they missed alot of the little things that were in the Doc.

That's what I got out of it, like someone running around trying to put fingers in the holes in a dike, too many holes; not enough fingers.

"Well so and so said so and so was there and he said she said it didn't happen".

I'll tell everyone....I'm afraid to fly, always have been. I've been reading about and studying airplane crashes my whole life.
Whenever I HAVE to fly I make my wife wear tight fitting shoes, like X-trainer sneakers because in a crash you ARE ripped out of your shoes. And how are you gonna run out of twisted metal, broken glass, and fire in your bare feet?????

In 80% of the crashes at least 60% of the people live through impact, then are burned alive because they can't get out. Upon impact thier legs are broken (femur bones) and they can't get out.

Think about that the next time you're flying and thank my :p :p

shaunclo

08-07-2006, 06:33 PM

I'll tell everyone....I'm afraid to fly, always have been. I've been reading about and studying airplane crashes my whole life.
Whenever I HAVE to fly I make my wife wear tight fitting shoes, like X-trainer sneakers because in a crash you ARE ripped out of your shoes. And how are you gonna run out of twisted metal, broken glass, and fire in your bare feet?????

In 80% of the crashes at least 60% of the people live through impact, then are burned alive because they can't get out. Upon impact thier legs are broken (femur bones) and they can't get out.

Think about that the next time you're flying and thank my :p :p

Jesus, I never really was afarid to fly, UNTIL NOW!!!!!!

clinton

08-07-2006, 09:16 PM

did anyone find it odd that the popular mechanics article was written by the cousin of the one and only
Michael Chertoff? yes the Homeland Security Chertoff.....
c'mon people the article was only meant to spin you around.....

alowishus

08-07-2006, 09:52 PM

Coddfish

08-07-2006, 10:57 PM

If the doc was slanted one way, the article was slanted the other. How does it feel, you guys, to be extremists? Anyone stupid enough to believe we don't have all the answers is labeled that in the article.

Opiyum

08-07-2006, 11:01 PM

I'm not sure I know what your saying there Codd. But I do know that Clinton deserves a medal. Chertoff's Fucking cousin.

Coddfish

08-07-2006, 11:12 PM

From the article:

As outlandish as these claims may sound, they are increasingly accepted abroad and among extremists here in the United States.

Opiyum

08-07-2006, 11:19 PM

Okay sorry about that. I see what your saying very clearly now.

alowishus

08-07-2006, 11:36 PM

Of course, if you don't jump inline and swallow everything they say is true then your David Koresh and have a stock pile of weapons which you'll be using soon to overthrow the local state run soup kitchen on Mussolini's birthday because they won't serve Pasta e Fagioli.

clinton

08-07-2006, 11:51 PM

But who is Benjamin Chertoff, the "senior researcher" at Popular Mechanics who is behind the article? American Free Press has learned that he is none other than a cousin of Michael Chertoff, the new Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

This means that Hearst paid Benjamin Chertoff to write an article supporting the seriously flawed explanation that is based on a practically non-existent investigation of the terror event that directly led to the creation of the massive national security department his "cousin" now heads. This is exactly the kind of "journalism" one would expect to find in a dictatorship like that of Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond to repeated calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's "senior researcher," directly.

Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he was related to Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable about discussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article should be put to the publicist ? the one who never answers the phone.

Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes, of course, he is a cousin."

Opiyum

08-07-2006, 11:56 PM

I retract my statement from earlier about removing this thread. It seems we have a good thing going here.

Opiyum

08-08-2006, 03:21 AM

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

I thought id post it here too....
this article is written by the Department of Homeland securties Cousin....something Chertoff....someone Clinton made a post about it in the Inside job thread.

Zwoof had a good idea about combining these two threads....Moderators? is this possible.

Quote:

The Associated Press
By MARY PEMBERTON

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) — BP PLC said Monday it will replace 73 percent of the pipelines from the nation's largest oil field and that production could be closed for weeks or months, crimping the nation's oil supplies at a time of peak demand.

Nice find Roland..

defenestrate

08-08-2006, 12:00 PM

recently, i've been getting into the work of alex jones and mike ruppert purporting to show proof of 9/11 coverups. they both cite a lot of sources, and appear to me to be honest people who are actually trying to get the truth out.

WarmCyanide

08-08-2006, 02:35 PM

for those who believe that we killed 3,000 of our own.
----> http://www.misterpoll.com/3413647416.html

My_Problem_Is_OC

08-08-2006, 03:26 PM

I don't think either side of this debate can prove beyond a doubt their argument. The Osama Bin Laden tapes prove nothing. Web savvy people like us should know how easy it is to fabricate video or get good actors. I'm not saying there is on Osama, I think there is and I think he did plan the attack. But does that mean there ain't no culpability by some entity within the US? Something is fishy about the whole thing. I wish I had answers, or even knew the right questions. But one thing I do know, I encourage people to challenge the norm and challenge the "official" version. Our government has certainly lied before. We made a big deal about a little oral sex and some bad family values but where is the accoutability for illegal wars, dead civilians, violation of human and civil rights? Bush should be impeached, regardless of 9/11. Why are our tax dollars funding winnerless wars like "the war on drugs" and "the war on terror" and now "the war on sexual freedom"? Who really profits from these "wars"?

Why do we, as a country, support a man who has disregarded our civil rights and renewed the Patriot Act, tortured prisoners, granted contracts to cronies, enriched the wealth of only the richest 1% of our country...

Why does GWB have the right to order the attorney general to fight state-passed laws like medicinal marijuana or doctor-assisted right-to-die laws like he did in Oregon? Get this fucker out of office, before it's too late.

skeletontea

08-08-2006, 04:31 PM

All of the conspiracy theory videos I've seen have provided (in my opinion) insubstantial evidence for their arguments. Unfortunately the link provided in the first post doesn't seem to be working, because I'd like to give it look.

I don't believe that our government bombed our people (though I wouldn't put such an act past this administration,) however I do know that they had advanced knowlege of a potential attack, and that the loss of life might have been preventable. A childhood friend of mine serves in the marines, and on September 10, 2001 he called his mom, told her that his unit was put on high alert that something "big" might be happening between that evening and the next day and told his mother that he loved her.

I also don't get why we're Iraq (other than for oil). Though Bush claimed Hussein and Bin Laden might have worked together, they are enemies, not allies. Bin Laden had called for Hussein's death on numerous occasions.

Edit: I believe that it was implied by my friend that a foreign attack on our country was the concern, though I can't remember specifically, perhaps my grandmother remembers.

Zoop

08-08-2006, 06:18 PM

Coddfish

08-08-2006, 09:12 PM

One thing not mentioned yet, what about the connection between Janet Jackson and Gw Bush? She set censorships laws back decades with the s. bowl shenanigans, something the neocons religious wacks like.

She knew what would happen, I think they were in the same frat at yale.

clinton

08-08-2006, 10:07 PM

coddfish were you in that frat as well?:D

Paregoric Kid

08-09-2006, 02:06 AM

hey instead of using logical fallacies like ad hominem to argue that the article is wrong why not go to the site and read what it has to say. what is important is WHAT the article says not who wrote it. why not argue the points he makes instead? or can't you?
ad hominem (from the wikipedia entry): An ad hominem argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_argument), also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin), literally "argument against the person") or attacking the messenger [or shooting the messenger], involves replying to an argument or assertion by attacking the person presenting the argument or assertion rather than the argument itself. It is a logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy).
A (fallacious) ad hominem argument has the basic form:

A makes claim X.
There is something objectionable about A.
Therefore claim X is false.

Opiyum

08-09-2006, 02:11 AM

I dont know exactly who your talking to in such a condecending manor but I can tell you I did read the article in fact those of us who didn't like it didn't realize who wrote it until someone else brought it up. I gave my full opinion of the article. Did you see that? I wonder if you read the documentary that the thread is about. Seeing that all you have to contribute is a lesson on the latin word Ad hominem I doubt that you did. That is afterall what the thread is about here.
Poor argument there Pkid. Relevance would be a better angle.

Paregoric Kid

08-09-2006, 02:16 AM

it was in response to clinton's post. I was saying that it doesn't matter who wrote the article, the points made in the article seem to be valid unless you can prove otherwise and that an ad hominem argument does not prove that the article is wrong.

Opiyum

08-09-2006, 02:38 AM

That's all well and good I didn't think you were talking about me. ANd you have a legitamet arguement but don't you realize what you sound like when you talk like that?

All he was doing was pointing out the fact that the article was bias. When your talking about a subject that is black and white for so many people bias is somethig that needs to be taken into account.

A makes claim X.
There is something objectionable about A.
Therefore claim X is false.

This is Bill O'reilly logic. "You dont like hamburgers and hotdogs? Let me ask you. Why do you hate america?".
That equation puts words/ beliefs in peoples mouths.

dorje

08-09-2006, 04:17 AM

See here's the other thing. Fabulous claims require fabulous proof. Like they have already carted all the proof away and made little toy airplanes out of it. That gasoline could not melt steel. Your right but according to other folks steel begins to weaken and lose half it's ability to hold things up at temperatures much lower than it takes to vaporize steel. Rigging the buildings with explosives would have taken weeks of 24 x7 work. You basically have to expose and then almost cut through each beam and then place a charge which will complete the cut. Hard stuff not to notice when you have to fix lot's of lower floors before the event. I believe that the US only had two unarmed Jets in the air because Russia lost the Cold War and we always though that's where the bad guys were coming from Big tactical mistake to not have some loaded planes defending inside our borders, Not a conspriracy a huge SNAFU as usual with army/air force/.etc

Paregoric Kid

08-09-2006, 05:46 AM

how is the article bias?

WarmCyanide

08-09-2006, 12:40 PM

how is the article bias?

the conspiracy claim or the rebuttal?

Paregoric Kid

08-09-2006, 09:31 PM

the popular mechanics article.

WarmCyanide

08-10-2006, 02:20 PM

the popular mechanics article.

Ok, PK just read the popular mechanics article your were referring to http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y
Looks very, very solid to me.

I guess it's easier to watch data manipulated by a conspiracy theory then to sit down and pour over
the actual facts. If it is a conspiracy, then I guess all these experts are involved too (and why the fuck would they want to be??? What's in it for them? Free oil?:rolleyes: ) Conspiracy, my red white and blue ass.

Air Crash Analysis
Cleveland Center regional air traffic control
Bill Crowley special agent, FBI
Ron Dokell president, Demolition Consultants
Richard Gazarik staff writer, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp.
Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D.,
ATP, CFI, A&P/IA president, Hynes Aviation Services; expert, aviation crashes
Ed Jacoby Jr. director,
New York State Emergency Management Office (Ret.); chairman, New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission (Ret.)
Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority
Cindi Lash staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Matthew McCormick manager, survival factors division, National Transportation Safety Board (Ret.)
Wallace Miller coroner, Somerset County, PA
Robert Nagan meteorological technician, Climate Services Branch, National Climatic Data Center
Dave Newell director, aviation and travel, VF Corp.
James O’Toole politics editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Pennsylvania State Police Public Information Office
Jeff Pillets senior writer,
The Record, Hackensack, NJ
Jeff Rienbold director, Flight 93 National Memorial, National Park Service
Dennis Roddy staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Master Sgt. David Somdahl public affairs officer,
119th Wing, North Dakota
Air National Guard
Mark Stahl photographer; eyewitness, United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene
Air Defense
Lt. Col. Skip Aldous (Ret.) squadron commander,
U.S. Air Force
Tech. Sgt. Laura Bosco public affairs officer,
Tyndall Air Force Base
Boston Center regional air traffic control
Laura Brown spokeswoman,
Federal Aviation Administration
Todd Curtis, Ph.D. founder, Airsafe.com; president, Airsafe.com Foundation
Keith Halloway public affairs officer, National Transportation Safety Board
Ted Lopatkiewicz director, public affairs, National Transportation Safety Board
Maj. Douglas Martin public affairs officer,
North American Aerospace Defense Command
Lt. Herbert McConnell public affairs officer,
Andrews AFB
Michael Perini public affairs officer, North American Aerospace Defense Command
John Pike director, GlobalSecurity.org
Hank Price spokesman, Federal
Aviation Administration
Warren Robak RAND Corp.
Bill Shumann spokesman,
Federal Aviation Administration
Louis Walsh public affairs officer, Eglin AFB
Chris Yates aviation security editor, analyst, Jane’s Transport
Aviation
Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B., S.M. professor of aeronautics, California Institute of Technology
Robert Everdeen public affairs, Northrop Grumman
Clint Oster professor of public and environmental affairs, Indiana University; aviation safety expert
Capt. Bill Scott (Ret. USAF) Rocky Mountain bureau chief, Aviation Week
Bill Uher News Media Office, NASA Langley Research Center
Col. Ed Walby (Ret. USAF)
director, business development, HALE Systems Enterprise, Unmanned Systems, Northrop Grumman
Image Analysis
William F. Baker member, FEMA Probe Team; partner, Skidmore, Owings, Merrill
W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. senior vice president, CTL Group; director,
FEMA Probe Team
Bill Daly senior vice president, Control Risks Group
Steve Douglass image analysis consultant, Aviation Week
Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D. founder, TREC; video forensics expert.
Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. professor of geology, Arizona State University
Rob Howard freelance photographer; WTC eyewitness
Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. professor of geophysics,
University of California, San Diego
Structural Engineering / Building Collapse
Farid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D. senior engineer, American Institute of Steel Construction
David Biggs, P.E. structural engineer, Ryan-Biggs Associates; member, ASCE team for FEMA report
Robert Clarke structural engineer, Controlled Demolitions Group Ltd.
Glenn Corbett technical editor, Fire Engineering; member, NIST advisory committee
Vincent Dunn deputy fire chief (Ret.), FDNY; author, The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety
John Fisher, Ph.D. professor of civil engineering, Lehigh University; professor emeritus, Center for Advanced Technology; member, FEMA Probe Team
Ken Hays executive vice president, Masonry Arts
Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D. professor of computer science, Purdue University; project director, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University
Allyn E. Kilsheimer, P.E.
CEO, KCE Structural Engineers PC; chief structural engineer, Phoenix project; expert in blast recovery, concrete structures, emergency response
Won-Young Kim, Ph.D. seismologist, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University
William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA
John Labriola freelance photographer, WTC survivor
Arthur Lerner-Lam, Ph.D. seismologist; director,
Earth Institute, Center for Hazards and Risk Research, Columbia University
James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee
Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash
Van Romero, Ph.D. vice president, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
Christine Shaffer spokesperson, Viracon
Mete Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Kettelhut Distinguished Professor of Structural Engineering, Purdue University; member, Pentagon Building Performance Report; project conception, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University
Shyam Sunder, Sc.D.
acting deputy director, lead investigator, Building and Fire Research Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology
Mary Tobin science writer, media relations, Earth Institute, Columbia University
Forman Williams, Ph.D. professor of engineering, physics, combustion, University of California,
San Diego; member, advisory committee, National Institute of Standards and Technology

HistoryofMadness

08-10-2006, 04:41 PM

Just what I was saying in another post: There would have to be so many people involved that were implicit to the conspiracy, that its impossible to believe that:

(a) the government is smart enough to trick 250 million people to the point of having NO POSITIVE evidence (you have all introduced interesting coincidences and scientific anomolies but no hard evidence)

(b) there are hundreds of hard-working, red-blooded public servants that are cold-heared enough to go along with mass murder for a little money (a lot of money divided up to a lot of people equals a little money)

(c) there would not be ONE mistake, or ONE whistle-blower, or ONE change of heart, or ONE double-cross that led to a confession, or ONE death bed confession, or ONE idiot that couldn't keep their mouth shut... etc. etc.

Do I believe that there is more than meets the eye? Yes, and given that most Americans don't even vote, or care, or are easily swayed by commercials, and only pay attention to government when its crammed into their face, taking over their TV, Web, and radio reality, during election season, with information that is paid for by biased people...

You're goddamn right there's more than meets the eye, but mostly because no one bothers to try to explain it to the uninterested, and the info we are given is structured to a certain party's platform.

All the info about who, why, and what is out there... it just takes so long to figure it out that most people are satisfied to buy into someone else's theory, and its usually bent towards what the person is most likely to believe anyway.

There, I said it.

jacky

08-14-2006, 06:08 PM

someone just gave me a copy of the movie/documentary called "martial law" by alex jones.....

pretty damn, solid "movie", and long one at that...

too much stuff to go into a rant about. but if you are like me, and have watched for the last 30 years or so, the bullshit that the bush family clan have perpetrated, and dont particularly like that...
and then if you are like me, and think the white house and feds were intimitalely involved with the 9/11 "theatrical" production....

then you will most likely dig this movie...

cant speak much about ALex Jones as I havnt really folowed his career, the website infowars.com offers this and other movies that center around the 9/11 "thing" or event.

reading 1984 as a young teenager, in the mid 80's, prepared me to some degree to accept an outlook on our federal government that is mostly referred to as a "conspiracy theory"....I dont think this outlook would be considered a theory if these people were investigated even to a small degree. but something seems to be amiss in this country and most people are being FOOLED, and even more are just the same greedy pigs and would probably off record, support the whole "project", project 9/11 that is.
our little boat can only bump into and get ground down by such corruption
there is little hope for truth in this environment, and the mess is too hideous for this country to face.

some of the highlights of the movie is an interview with a journalist who had been granted special privelege to check out documents and previous intelligence on the Bush familys connection with Nazi $$$$$$$ and support....

and a certian paragraph in a report by the trilateral commision in which the statement that a beneficial pearl harbor like attack on american soil is needed to pull the people in america together to see their vision through......

these people, organizations are not too smart, and must be somewhat psychopathic to pull this shit off, there ignorance and egos I can only hope will get the better of them in the future.

they fucked up, the 4th plane didnt reach its target...this ball of string can be followed, maybe it will happen, but it may just as well get stymied before martial law is a fact of daily life in the bigger US cities.

I am keeping my nose in the opiate research, and hope to find a way to survive in some other country in the future. I would rather not be in the thick of the next great human experiment........

jacky

08-14-2006, 06:16 PM

NORAD...one word. NORAD.

there are too many greasy coincidences to slip up on. emotions end up getting the better of me...either people dont want to see this shit or they do.

I admit there are alot of idiots on both sides of the debate.

I just dont see how the corruption can be ignored. intuition counts for nothing, though might be our only guiding light in this situation...like an above post stated, the evidence in this issue has been severly FUCKED with.

WarmCyanide

08-14-2006, 07:15 PM

I know that people get primped and groomed and and there are many darts in the bar to throw at politicians but George Carlin said it best. "You may have noticed that there's one thing I don't complain about: Politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says, "They suck". But where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. No, they come from American homes, American families, American schools, American churches, American businesses, and they're elected by American voters. This is the best we can do, folks. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out.

Opiyum

08-14-2006, 08:13 PM

Ok, PK just read the popular mechanics article your were referring to http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y
Looks very, very solid to me.

I guess it's easier to watch data manipulated by a conspiracy theory then to sit down and pour over
the actual facts. If it is a conspiracy, then I guess all these experts are involved too (and why the fuck would they want to be??? What's in it for them? Free oil?:rolleyes: ) Conspiracy, my red white and blue ass.

Air Crash Analysis
Cleveland Center regional air traffic control
Bill Crowley special agent, FBI
Ron Dokell president, Demolition Consultants
Richard Gazarik staff writer, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp.
Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D.,
ATP, CFI, A&P/IA president, Hynes Aviation Services; expert, aviation crashes
Ed Jacoby Jr. director,
New York State Emergency Management Office (Ret.); chairman, New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission (Ret.)
Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority
Cindi Lash staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Matthew McCormick manager, survival factors division, National Transportation Safety Board (Ret.)
Wallace Miller coroner, Somerset County, PA
Robert Nagan meteorological technician, Climate Services Branch, National Climatic Data Center
Dave Newell director, aviation and travel, VF Corp.
James O’Toole politics editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Pennsylvania State Police Public Information Office
Jeff Pillets senior writer,
The Record, Hackensack, NJ
Jeff Rienbold director, Flight 93 National Memorial, National Park Service
Dennis Roddy staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Master Sgt. David Somdahl public affairs officer,
119th Wing, North Dakota
Air National Guard
Mark Stahl photographer; eyewitness, United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene
Air Defense
Lt. Col. Skip Aldous (Ret.) squadron commander,
U.S. Air Force
Tech. Sgt. Laura Bosco public affairs officer,
Tyndall Air Force Base
Boston Center regional air traffic control
Laura Brown spokeswoman,
Federal Aviation Administration
Todd Curtis, Ph.D. founder, Airsafe.com; president, Airsafe.com Foundation
Keith Halloway public affairs officer, National Transportation Safety Board
Ted Lopatkiewicz director, public affairs, National Transportation Safety Board
Maj. Douglas Martin public affairs officer,
North American Aerospace Defense Command
Lt. Herbert McConnell public affairs officer,
Andrews AFB
Michael Perini public affairs officer, North American Aerospace Defense Command
John Pike director, GlobalSecurity.org
Hank Price spokesman, Federal
Aviation Administration
Warren Robak RAND Corp.
Bill Shumann spokesman,
Federal Aviation Administration
Louis Walsh public affairs officer, Eglin AFB
Chris Yates aviation security editor, analyst, Jane’s Transport
Aviation
Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B., S.M. professor of aeronautics, California Institute of Technology
Robert Everdeen public affairs, Northrop Grumman
Clint Oster professor of public and environmental affairs, Indiana University; aviation safety expert
Capt. Bill Scott (Ret. USAF) Rocky Mountain bureau chief, Aviation Week
Bill Uher News Media Office, NASA Langley Research Center
Col. Ed Walby (Ret. USAF)
director, business development, HALE Systems Enterprise, Unmanned Systems, Northrop Grumman
Image Analysis
William F. Baker member, FEMA Probe Team; partner, Skidmore, Owings, Merrill
W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. senior vice president, CTL Group; director,
FEMA Probe Team
Bill Daly senior vice president, Control Risks Group
Steve Douglass image analysis consultant, Aviation Week
Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D. founder, TREC; video forensics expert.
Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. professor of geology, Arizona State University
Rob Howard freelance photographer; WTC eyewitness
Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. professor of geophysics,
University of California, San Diego
Structural Engineering / Building Collapse
Farid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D. senior engineer, American Institute of Steel Construction
David Biggs, P.E. structural engineer, Ryan-Biggs Associates; member, ASCE team for FEMA report
Robert Clarke structural engineer, Controlled Demolitions Group Ltd.
Glenn Corbett technical editor, Fire Engineering; member, NIST advisory committee
Vincent Dunn deputy fire chief (Ret.), FDNY; author, The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety
John Fisher, Ph.D. professor of civil engineering, Lehigh University; professor emeritus, Center for Advanced Technology; member, FEMA Probe Team
Ken Hays executive vice president, Masonry Arts
Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D. professor of computer science, Purdue University; project director, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University
Allyn E. Kilsheimer, P.E.
CEO, KCE Structural Engineers PC; chief structural engineer, Phoenix project; expert in blast recovery, concrete structures, emergency response
Won-Young Kim, Ph.D. seismologist, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University
William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA
John Labriola freelance photographer, WTC survivor
Arthur Lerner-Lam, Ph.D. seismologist; director,
Earth Institute, Center for Hazards and Risk Research, Columbia University
James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee
Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash
Van Romero, Ph.D. vice president, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
Christine Shaffer spokesperson, Viracon
Mete Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Kettelhut Distinguished Professor of Structural Engineering, Purdue University; member, Pentagon Building Performance Report; project conception, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University
Shyam Sunder, Sc.D.
acting deputy director, lead investigator, Building and Fire Research Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology
Mary Tobin science writer, media relations, Earth Institute, Columbia University
Forman Williams, Ph.D. professor of engineering, physics, combustion, University of California,
San Diego; member, advisory committee, National Institute of Standards and Technology

This is probably similar to the list that those who executed this used to identify who would need to be manipulated in some way. A person can be "in" on a job and not know it.
Any detailed plan to do something like this wouldn't be easy. It's gonna be difficult and take a lot of time to sort out.
As someone else mentioned the Bush family has in one way or another been backstage to the inner-workings of our government for a long time. Much longer than I've been alive in fact. GW senior is to privy to more confidential information than probably anyone in politics.
It's been a Bush or a Clinton on the ticket for my whole life too.

Opiyum

08-14-2006, 08:17 PM

Rigging the buildings with explosives would have taken weeks of 24 x7 work. You basically have to expose and then almost cut through each beam and then place a charge which will complete the cut. Hard stuff not to notice when you have to fix lot's of lower floors before the event.

This was one thing that was covered in the documentary I was talking about earlier in the thread. I cant remember specifically but the towers, in the month prior to 911, there were frequent evacuations.
I obviously wasn't there so I dont know for sure but I'm there was documentation to back that up. Maybe not. Maybe someone else knows?

clinton

08-14-2006, 11:35 PM

believe what you will i guess......
hopefully the truth will come out, im sure some of you actually believe that iraq was somehow involved in 9/11 ...........

jacky

08-14-2006, 11:54 PM

well, if Maria and Arnold get their way, then the Austrian born, son of a Nazi SS officer, will get to run for president.
He already claims that the USA is his HOMELAND.....

and he also makes no excuse for the NAZIS, and has been given to anti semitic statements in the past...well, it was a LONG time ago, before he was even a major movie star. So does that mean that he is past that shit, or is he just a little bit smarter? or is he not really any smarter, but under the watchful guise of his skeleton faced bitch?....................

I didnt like what Mr. Bush was about in the 80's, and dont like him, or his son today, I think they are fucking slime.

after the world trade centers were first bombed I told some freinds that it would happen again.
on 9/11 I was not the least bit suprised, though admittedly at first I bought the whole boatload of bullshit.
it took looking into media reports other than CNN or FOX to start realizing that something was amiss.

the war in Iraq seemed like a bunch of bullshit to me as well. I was protesting that peacefully BEFORE it happened.

but hey, warm cyanide , I think we are both opiophiles (right?) , we should stick together despite our political differences, and hopefully we can both agree that the DEA has pulled some real bullshit over on the american people and chronic pain sufferers, and if not, well, then I wont open that bag up...........

last year the president of Peru invited Americans and Europeans to visit his country, this was on the travel channel, he did this as he described the sacred nature of the coca leaf to his people, and coca leaf in hand, he put it in his mouth and continued his warm welcome.....

that is the kind of president I want to support.

not a fucking liar.

Opiyum

08-15-2006, 12:40 AM

I'll be back....
Damn straight

Chipdorq

08-15-2006, 04:57 AM

... Please tell me how a 40-50 foot wing TWO of them follows the "air pocket" into a whole 3x times smaller and then vanishes, not to mention the wooden furniture left UNBURNT at the impact site by all that fuel. Not to mention NO IMPACT SITE just a hole in the wall.....

How about this ... so the wingspan is 80 to 100 feet across. The body of the plane is about 20-30 feet in diameter. The nose hits first. Then the wings.

>>> Do you think that the wings will remain sticking out throughout impact?

I don't think they'd hold up enough to pierce the building without folding back. they're hollow aluminum, not a 100foot beam of steel. as soon as the plane hits, it's strucural integrity is lost, so wings can fold back pretty easy. I mean heavy winds have ripped the tail-fins off planes. Wings bounce all over the place during turbulence. They're pretty flimsey Do you expect a hole that looks like the plane, ala wiley coyote running through a wall?

my 2 cents.

dorje

08-15-2006, 08:33 AM

Whatever we think about the WTC in the end they pulled it off. We are at war in Iraq.. any evidence of a conspiracy gets further away every day and none of the theories have gained much traction. There doesn't appear to be any organized resistance to the policies or practices of the present regime and elections draw near...the winner makes the rules.

Opiyum

08-15-2006, 11:10 AM

How about this ... so the wingspan is 80 to 100 feet across. The body of the plane is about 20-30 feet in diameter. The nose hits first. Then the wings.

>>> Do you think that the wings will remain sticking out throughout impact?

I don't think they'd hold up enough to pierce the building without folding back. they're hollow aluminum, not a 100foot beam of steel. as soon as the plane hits, it's strucural integrity is lost, so wings can fold back pretty easy. I mean heavy winds have ripped the tail-fins off planes. Wings bounce all over the place during turbulence. They're pretty flimsey Do you expect a hole that looks like the plane, ala wiley coyote running through a wall?

my 2 cents.

Would you refer to a six ton engine as flimsy. Cause well....Those happen to be on the wings.

Tar_Baby

08-30-2006, 06:16 AM

I personally worked with over 120 families affected by a loss of a loved one.
Both in the towers and on the planes...New York and Washington, if it's a
hoax...where are the deceased people..some families have fragments..some
not...answer me that.
Nikz

Oh it happened, but the towers were brought down by controlled demolition after the planes hit...This was an inside job

Tar_Baby

08-30-2006, 06:19 AM

This was one thing that was covered in the documentary I was talking about earlier in the thread. I cant remember specifically but the towers, in the month prior to 911, there were frequent evacuations.
I obviously wasn't there so I dont know for sure but I'm there was documentation to back that up. Maybe not. Maybe someone else knows?

Yes the top 50 floors were powered down and evacuated for 2 days the weekend prior to that tuesday morn (9/11).. Marvin BUSH was head of security for WTC..hmmm

dorje

08-30-2006, 06:37 AM

nick

08-30-2006, 06:57 AM

Yeah my significant other took me to 9/11 conspiracy event in London.She introduced me to David Shayler.Shayler is an ex mi6 spook who ended up in jail after refusing to take part in a plot to kill Guadaffi(sic-I guess).Anyhow Shayler now fronts the 9/11 conspiracy org in the UK.I found him shifty to say the least.I think the whole 9/11 conspiracy idea is a front to disguise intelligence failings in the US/UK and a means to divert attention from some of the crap that is getting pulled.
The idea that renegade CIA/Mossad/MI6 types detonated a mini nuke in the WTC is too funny-these guys haven't got the skill set to pull it off.

HistoryofMadness

08-30-2006, 07:54 AM

I thought this thread had expired. Interesting discussions but IMHO it's too late. The deed is done conspriracy or not. We are fighting in Iraq, Iran about to get the bomb, tenuous peace in Lebanon, and the Democrats are going to run Hilary Clinton for Prez. Might as well give the Bush family another twenty years because they control the whole show, Congress, the Surpreme Court, Presidency, Secretarty of Haliburton, etc. Not good.

That's a ridiculous suggestion, that the bush family controls everything. Congress is revolting against him in the most damaging way (politically), the Supreme Court has already ruled against policies associated with his administration twice, Halliburton is run by people that only use the administration for capital gain (kickbacks to Cheney), and lobbyists on the hill are already moving cash towards the dems in a sort of 50/50 split (because if the dems win there will be a lot of 'ship jumping' going on)...

Bush / Bush and Co. are going to be facing a 'lame duck' season for basically the remainder of his presidency, his brother will only bring a bad taste to peoples' mouth, and there's really no one else to carry things forward. Don't get me wrong, they're certainly influential, but I can assure you that they run nothing, and never really have.

Powerful family? Yes. But there are many many powerful families, and none of them run our government wholesale-ly.

As for the conspiracy, I don't buy it for one second. There are a lot of ex-mujuhadeen that have been on the CIA payroll, the AIPAC runs a powerful organization on the hill, and yes, the military-industrial complex / iron triangle made a lot of money after 9/11, as did anyone invested in defense.... that's a lot of people. But there are explanations, although complex, that explain all of that.

Its always interesting to me that people like to take one event, remove in from all historical and political context, and become suddenly amazed at how the whole system works. Its a very reactionary and opportunistic system that often cannibalizes itself, but it always runs that way. You can take practically any event in our history and dig up information that's kept out of the public echo chamber talking machine, and you will find all sorts of people making dirty (but legal) money.

The real story is that the most powerful and rich among us is a small group, somewhere along the lines of 3% of the population. They also happen to spawn the rulers, leaders, and wizards (those guys behind the curtains), which is an even smaller group. This group is notorious for boardroom, cloakroom, chamberroom, and even bedroom politics. Dirty as it could possibly get.

But this dirty shit is legal, mainly because those of us who live way down on the bottom floor (you're either rich, i.e. running companies and states, or you're not, there's not really a middle anymore)... anyway, most of the folks down here only pay attention to the biggest events in history, and when the everyday shit is seen by outsiders, it looks fishy as hell.

We could always do something different, but most people are so defeatist they don't realize that we as a population, or even a significant portion of the population, could bring parts of the system to its knees in a matter of months. Think about the organization that sprang up during the prohibition of alcohol, and how it just took people not agreeing and just doing what the fuck they wanted to anyway, en masse.

Anyway, the point is that if the shit that you find fishy around 9/11 seems to be a giant set-up, its because the system IS a giant set-up. But shit like 9/11 happens to us because of the things we do as a nation.

For instance, everytime you are told that the terrorists 'hate us' because 'we love freedom' and they 'hate our way of life' - you are being lied to. Anybody that has just one TOE in middle east affairs knows that has nothing to do with the beef arab and persian shiite muslims have with us.

I only use that as an example of this: There's a layer of information that is crusted on top of this whole thing, and that's the story we're told by the gov - about foreign and domestic affairs - and just under that is a whole lot of dirty stuff that we're allowing to go on... the feeling that something isn't right with the whole thing, the one that suggests 'conspiracy', is really that.

It was NOT an inside job... we didn't need to do it, because it was coming anyway, and certain factions of the government had a plan in place for when it did. That much is true, along with people just outside of that making money off of it... as usual, and it was really a no brainer for someone that has access to market and policy information. That's all true.

But those same fuckers don't get along well enough, and most aren't smart enough, to get away with such an elaborate plan.

dorje

08-30-2006, 08:07 AM

I agree it's not the Bush family but the heavies you indicate in your post. I guess I was just using that family as iconic of the upper 3% you identify. However, the Republicans (I know they disagree with each other) DO control Congress, and the conservatives are on the Supreme Court (although they showed some surprising decisions in the recent wiretapping decision) and Hilary cannot win.

Zoop

08-30-2006, 10:36 AM

...and Hilary cannot win.

God willing.

This thread is example numero uno why this forum is called "opiophile" and not "conspiracy-o-phile" or something like that.

Can't we all just talk about how great dope is?

nick

08-30-2006, 11:59 AM

Zoop,even junkies need something to talk about when they're loaded.Even if it doesn't make much sense.

antony

08-30-2006, 05:59 PM

and the conservatives are on the Supreme Court (although they showed some surprising decisions in the recent wiretapping decision) .

that wasn't the Supreme Court. A Federal Judge in Detroit said it was illegal. Still got appellate court and then the Supreme Court (if they decide to hear it {which they probably will}) read it here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/17/AR2006081700650.html)
Powerful family? Yes. But there are many many powerful families, and none of them run our government wholesale-ly.
thats true. being from one of the most powerful families, I can say we don't rule the gov't. we just pay them off when needed. i.e. when we got some troubles, or re-election time.

no one goes toe to toe with the antony family unless they want serious pain and financial ruin. punk bitches

WarmCyanide

08-30-2006, 06:29 PM

Zoop,even junkies need something to talk about when they're loaded.Even if it doesn't make much sense.

yup. i agree. lets talk about something that makes sense. still waiting for evidence 9/11 was an inside job:confused: I used to think there were pyramids on mars for years.:p

blaming big business, politicians, government. sorry to say. It's all made up of people. humans. us.

WC

clinton

08-31-2006, 12:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorje
...and Hilary cannot win.

God willing.

since she would do so much worse that the current administration? please.......
im not a democrat nor a republican but i always find it great when people are like "fuck hillary".....
listening to limbaugh too much? any good reason behind this statement?
or are you a moral conservative who loves using junk?
whats ok and whats not?
free heroin on corners? peeing in strangers assholes? setting tires on fire? dumping toxic waste in forests because its cost efficient? tapping oil fields and fucking things off?

dorje

08-31-2006, 05:51 AM

No conservatives here-I just don't think she has a chance with the election on a practical level. It seems the Liberal/Democratic scene cannot get anything together. No traction occurs on major issues and the conservative faction is in dominance. Now things whip around in politics but it has been a long time since Congress was owned by one party and we had a President who has Executive Power disease. But you never know. I don't think she would be worse:I don;t think she can win the election. Just my feeling about it.
Now the free heroin on street corners idea might tilt the old scales. I would vote for it. And I am neither a Republican nor Democrat but do vote.

chemboy7

08-31-2006, 06:31 AM

or are you a moral conservative who loves using junk?

Are you trying to imply that one cannot be a conservative and still get high?

dorje

08-31-2006, 07:24 AM

Nope. I'm implying we can all be flying-and that the balance between the powers in our government seems lopsided right now, But then maybe it's me that is lopsided.

nick

08-31-2006, 08:06 AM

Fleeting_Glimpse

08-31-2006, 08:06 AM

HistoryofMadness

08-31-2006, 10:06 AM

Republicans (I know they disagree with each other) DO control Congress, and the conservatives are on the Supreme Court (although they showed some surprising decisions in the recent wiretapping decision) and Hilary cannot win.

yes, technically, but margins are so small that 'control' is in the hands of swing voters, in Congress, on the SC, and in the general electorate.

as for hillary, i only have one comment: never say never... the rule of politics is that there are no rules, natural or otherwise, in election season. right now hillary has as good a chance as any republican, given the feel most voters have in the US right now. but most likely the winner will be nobody most people in the mainstream haven't even heard of.

God willing.

This thread is example numero uno why this forum is called "opiophile" and not "conspiracy-o-phile" or something like that.

Can't we all just talk about how great dope is?

boring 2-dimensional communities should be eradicated like an infected population of birds. don't you get bored of constant dope talk? personally i like to hear what like-minded people (that like to get high) think about other things.

Until the democrats produce policies that appeal to the millions of Americans who go to Church and vote republican you're doomed to live with all the bullshit that's going down now.Have the democrats even said the war in Iraq is immoral yet?Plus remember the shit from the present administration is overflowing all over the planet.

this makes no sense to me, because (a) bush / republicans have not won sweeping victories since the 'revolution' of 1994, (b) more than half the electorate doesn't regularly attend church, (c) regardless of the 'morality' of the Iraq war, we're stuck now, as everyone knows, for at least a few more years, and (d) the disastrous nature of the war speaks for itself, not that we can't win, but that the current administration needs to make some BIG changes, and fast, and nobody except the 15% of Republicans that are committed to the party the pres AND Israel's interests taking precedence would disagree...

antony

08-31-2006, 10:24 AM

Until the democrats produce policies that appeal to the millions of Americans who go to Church and vote republican you're doomed to live with all the bullshit that's going down now.Have the democrats even said the war in Iraq is immoral yet?Plus remember the shit from the present administration is overflowing all over the planet.

I find that true. It seemed Kerry was going to win, and when he finally conceded, no one remembered to think of the Christian Coalition.

I was in a heavy nod at about 3 am when the news started to report that was the "third party vote," if you will. woke me up and I was pissed.

HistoryofMadness

08-31-2006, 10:50 AM

alot of that pentagon shit doesnt add up; another well known fact is that the part of the pentagon that was hit just happened to be under renovations, and noone was working in that section... how convenient

hmmm... 125 people were killed when a jetliner crashed into the pentagon and destroyed 2 million sqare feet of the building. The 'renovations' had begun in 1941, and the renovation of the section hit began in 1998. Personnel had begun moving back in phases starting in February of 2001. These real facts sure do make the 'coincidence' seem a lot less surprising and the timing a lot worse than conspiracy theorists are suggesting.

Furthermore, there were countless eyewitness reports (http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html) of an actual plane hitting the pentagon. I don't think this list of regular american folks could really ALL be paid off and NEVER recount their stories. Besides, the area hit was well-populated and surely SOMEONE would be screaming about not seeing a plane if one didn't hit.

Its been since proven that the reason the hole in the pentagon was smaller than expected was because the wings of the plane basically exploded into thousands of pieces or disintegrated at the point of impact. That is very much scientifically feasable, and just because people who aren't scientists don't understand it doesn't mean its not true.