Detox w/o rattling?

[ka11ink]

Was wondering if someone actually hooked on a fairly good dose of w/e opiate could actually detox with little or no symptoms if they titrated their dose down slow enough. Like say starting on 100mg methadone and only dropping half a mg every 2 weeks or something? Will the body just pick a time to say 'fuck no i know im goin down' or is it possible to go hella slow enough to trick the body into not even realizing it. Especially if u dont jump off from too high a dose.

[Duckfeet]

Sure...but the trouble is, we get tired of it, and day usually comes when one says "fuck this shit, I'm getting loaded..."

I got off 50 mg mdone in around 3 months and I didn't feel a thing...drop a little every week, all the way down to nothing...but I had to do it thru a clinic...I have no self-control when I've got opiates in my cupboard...it's all I think about...

[SeVeN]

Yeh its close to possible. The few times I've succesfuly tapered down I still got minor WD's but they were very bearable. And like DF said, the problem is usually WE end up fucking it up for ourselfs.

[ka11ink]

You really felt zero symptoms duckfeet? Even when u finally jumped? Did u have a blind dose decrease or did you always know what u were on. I'd think I'd need to keep my dose hidden, placebo effect is so strong with me at times.

[Duckfeet]

I don't remember feeling anything: I was so eager to get off it, and only thing was, around 20mg or so, I quit getting the 'lift' u get about an hr after dosing, and around 10mg I really wanted to 'jump', but no, it was alright, no physical or mental shit...hard part for me, is now, a few months later, when I know I'd feel a few pills, u know, and I kind of forget how miserable I was on methadone...been here, done this, many times, so I'm not all optimistic...but who knows...I'm pretty unhappy on methadone, so that kind of helped motivate me...

But getting down to 50mg wasn't that hard, either, for me, but I had to do clinic, as, like I said, I tend to do drugs if I have them...

You really felt zero symptoms duckfeet? Even when u finally jumped? Did u have a blind dose decrease or did you always know what u were on. I'd think I'd need to keep my dose hidden, placebo effect is so strong with me at times.

[jonny-5]

its definitely possible, assuming you have extremely good willpower. for instance with heroin, if one were to wait just until they were starting to feel sick and then did JUST enough to feel normal (not high), and continued to do this they would notice that their dosing frequency would start getting farther and farther apart until one day they wouldnt need to dose at all. like i say thought it would take extreme willpower.

[ka11ink]

I have a hard time cutting down my dose bc I feel that unless I feel a tiny bit high that I'm still gonna feel shit, as long as I feel something, anything, I'm ok, but it's hard for me to tell myself I'm gonna feel ok later if I don't.

[sunsrequiem]

Jonny, that is exactly what I am trying to do with Ka11ink. I help him monitor his morphine intake. He'll ask for a hit when he's sweaty, and I'm like "no, wait longer because you'll need to learn to deal with this stuff if you want to get fully clean eventually."

He also mentioned how the placebo effect helps him...I took out some of his beads from the 90mg morphines he has bc he took too many and was going to run out. He still got high off the lower dose and assumed it was the full one. He finally figured it out when he wasn't running out of pills hahaha

As a psych major i've seen the power of the placebo effect...and it is damn powerful

[SHELLEY]

i went from 100mg to 10mg of 'done in less than 2 months
and while i haven't been feeling 'on top of the world' or anything
i'm nowhere near dopesick

[Duckfeet]

I think I went from 100-50mg around 10mg drop a week, then from 50 down to zero, dropping, u know, 5mg a week, then 4mg a week, then 3mg a week, then 2mg a week down to nothing, and it was easiest methadone detox I've ever had...but I spent two years trying, then wanted it bad and it worked...so I'm no poster boy...

But my problem is I *had* to use the clinic, even tho doc would give me same amount of methadone, but I don't seem to have much self-control...

Plus u have kid, and stuff, and you always have seemed more motivated when you try to do something...I can talk tough, and even look tough...but when it comes to kicking dope, I'm a wuss....

i went from 100mg to 10mg of 'done in less than 2 months
and while i haven't been feeling 'on top of the world' or anything
i'm nowhere near dopesick

[ka11ink]

I can't figure out the logic in refusing to allow doctors to prescribe methadone to addicts in an office when people can get up to like what, 20+ take homes a month from the clinic? How is that any different? Any input, especially from you duck.

[Duckfeet]

I think regular docs aren't allowed to prescibe it for addicts, only for pain..my V.A. doc knew I was in pain, and he actually knew that more and more older veterans were being forced into *clinics*, pretending to be addicts, so he actually was prescribing me 50mg a day, month script of methadone...but I myself had to join fucking clinic since I'd use up all the dope, then get way too sick...

I know it's not logical, but that's part of the deal...now sub doc permits--they gotta take a class, like 8hrs, to prescribe subs, is easier to get...because people don't o.d. on subs...but methadone, u know, gets diverted people buy it, hell *I've* bought it, and that's how it goes...and to get the clinic takehomes, u've got to give clean urines, play the game, to all the b.s., and then *slowly* get takehomes, like 1day for every 3months usually: can take a year, just to get weekly take homes...

But I do agree, and even in England and Europe, where they have Heroin Maintenance, u *usually* have to go to some kind of clinic setup...from what I read, only a handful of docs left in England who prescribe heroin for *addicts*(most don't want to, anyway, like here)..but I could be wrong...I'm always fascinated by that...Nick knows a lot more...

I can't figure out the logic in refusing to allow doctors to prescribe methadone to addicts in an office when people can get up to like what, 20+ take homes a month from the clinic? How is that any different? Any input, especially from you duck.

[ka11ink]

I think regular docs aren't allowed to prescibe it for addicts, only for pain..my V.A. doc knew I was in pain, and he actually knew that more and more older veterans were being forced into *clinics*, pretending to be addicts, so he actually was prescribing me 50mg a day, month script of methadone...but I myself had to join fucking clinic since I'd use up all the dope, then get way too sick...

I know it's not logical, but that's part of the deal...now sub doc permits--they gotta take a class, like 8hrs, to prescribe subs, is easier to get...because people don't o.d. on subs...but methadone, u know, gets diverted people buy it, hell *I've* bought it, and that's how it goes...and to get the clinic takehomes, u've got to give clean urines, play the game, to all the b.s., and then *slowly* get takehomes, like 1day for every 3months usually: can take a year, just to get weekly take homes...

But I do agree, and even in England and Europe, where they have Heroin Maintenance, u *usually* have to go to some kind of clinic setup...from what I read, only a handful of docs left in England who prescribe heroin for *addicts*(most don't want to, anyway, like here)..but I could be wrong...I'm always fascinated by that...Nick knows a lot more...

Ya I can see the thing where they want to make sure ur pissing clean and all that, but to me I don't see much of a difference in a clinic setting with a doc to a doctor's office setting with a doc. A doctor at his office can do pretty much everything a clinic can do except maybe the therapy sessions and stuff, but they could always get the patient set up at one in town or w/e. I just hate ignorance, people that do stuff 'just bc' without any real reasons, or people that won't do stuff just bc.

[sunsrequiem]

I basically quit cold turkey and had very few WD symptoms. I never get sick, but i get irritable, bored, and sometimes, when i'm trying to sleep...i get this weird "restless arm" thing. And it's only in the arm i shoot in, so i'm left assuming it has something to do with my addiction.

I say basically quit because i still use every now and then, but i have drastically cut down from a half gram to gram a day...which might seem babyish compared to what y'all have done :-D

[Raz]

I think regular docs aren't allowed to prescibe it for addicts, only for pain..my V.A. doc knew I was in pain, and he actually knew that more and more older veterans were being forced into *clinics*, pretending to be addicts, so he actually was prescribing me 50mg a day, month script of methadone...but I myself had to join fucking clinic since I'd use up all the dope, then get way too sick...

I know it's not logical, but that's part of the deal...now sub doc permits--they gotta take a class, like 8hrs, to prescribe subs, is easier to get...because people don't o.d. on subs...but methadone, u know, gets diverted people buy it, hell *I've* bought it, and that's how it goes...and to get the clinic takehomes, u've got to give clean urines, play the game, to all the b.s., and then *slowly* get takehomes, like 1day for every 3months usually: can take a year, just to get weekly take homes...

But I do agree, and even in England and Europe, where they have Heroin Maintenance, u *usually* have to go to some kind of clinic setup...from what I read, only a handful of docs left in England who prescribe heroin for *addicts*(most don't want to, anyway, like here)..but I could be wrong...I'm always fascinated by that...Nick knows a lot more...

In da Uk,(from wat i remember) your dr is the one who writes the script, but they wont write ya a script, wivout ya goin to a clinic....So you go to "counselling clinic" they write ya Dr that you is recieving "counselling" dr writes script, take script to pharmacia and then make daily journey to pharmacy and pick up ya dose.....But you dont have to drink it on the premises..Its in a sealed bottle and most junkies just save em up at home or sell it....
This is da "free clinics".......

Private payin ones you just get ya script ,take it pharmacia and pick up a shitloada meds.....(they have drs on site to write da scripts)...

[Hoss]

I basically quit cold turkey and had very few WD symptoms. I never get sick, but i get irritable, bored, and sometimes, when i'm trying to sleep...i get this weird "restless arm" thing. And it's only in the arm i shoot in, so i'm left assuming it has something to do with my addiction.

I say basically quit because i still use every now and then, but i have drastically cut down from a half gram to gram a day...which might seem babyish compared to what y'all have done :-D

How long and what were you using when you quit CT SunsR? I know everyone has a different tolerance to withdrawals, but everyone I know - including myself - definitely go through the motions.

[sunsrequiem]

How long and what were you using when you quit CT SunsR? I know everyone has a different tolerance to withdrawals, but everyone I know - including myself - definitely go through the motions.


Been shooting H for the past year, but it was only over the past eight months half a gram a day, and for the past 2 months I was shooting about a gram a day.

It took me awhile to get over the depression part, life can be very boring when you're not high, especially when you only have 3 different channels...you get so tired of news about every three hours. But I never got sick, feverish, shakes, sweats, although sometimes i was cold when it was very warm in the apartment.

I quit that regime about 15 days ago. I never crave H. I never need to have it, but I do want it, especially when i have a rough day, but it's like wanting a beer. I have used since then, but i have bought H twice in the past 15 days instead of every day which has left me with more money. I don't know how it worked for me, I wish my roommate had it as easy.

[Hoss]

Been shooting H for the past year, but it was only over the past eight months half a gram a day, and for the past 2 months I was shooting about a gram a day.

<snip>

I quit that regime about 15 days ago. I never crave H. I never need to have it, but I do want it, especially when i have a rough day, but it's like wanting a beer. I have used since then, but i have bought H twice in the past 15 days instead of every day which has left me with more money. I don't know how it worked for me, I wish my roommate had it as easy.

^ Well my friend, you must be somewhat of an anomaly as doing .5-1G of H a day - regardless of route of administration - and quitting cold turkey would most definitely bring upon the full gamut of withdrawal hell in most if not all people. And no craving?!

Not trying to bust your balls, but I just can't help but feeling puzzled by this description. All I know is that whenever I don't have any opiates, and *especially* when I'm on an H-run and 'run dry' without options, I CRAVE LIKE HELL and go through pretty horrific times, mentally and physically, especially at a level like a gram a day. Hell, even Buprenorphine can't pull me out of that ditch - it ain't pretty!

I wish I could do what you described and get away with it, but unfortunately I am on a train of bunky funk if I chose that route. How is it so?

[Raz]

All of us can only talk from personal xperience, but even chasin a gram a day for 8 moon and den quittin CT, would have me livin in da kazie(toilet) with a bowl in fronta me, as i'm a gushin outta both ends.....
Sleep, forget it....No sleep for 2 wks if i'm lucky....And stay da fuck away from me, coz i might be justa little volatile.....But "no symptons", Naw, not dis junky,i'd be cluckin ma nuts off and probably wouldnt last da distance.....

In fact my wife would probably just go an get me sumfing....Naw scratch dat, my mrs woulda said" no fuckin way are you cluckin here in dis house, either get some gear or methadone, coz no way are you cluckin cold turkey here".......And she would make sure there was sumfing in da house....Or i wouldnt be in it....
She's all up for a slow taper, but cold turkey, forget it, especially after my last experience tryin CT...
She fought i'd gone nuts and wanted to lock me in the basement....In the end i scored and got well, dats how i know da scene in spain...

Straight up serious....

You sure got a different metabilism dan mine bro..

[Chipper]

My detox was reasonably smooth - I started at 80 mg and it took 4 months. Heaps of exercise (walking, mainly) really helped. Getting your own endorphins moving takes the edge off.

When i did stress out, i put my dose up a few mgs. or tried to control my breathing.

The trick is to have everything else in your life running as well as possible and I also found that having some (extra) methadone within easy access can really help your mindset.

I have never tried the subs and am a huge supporter of methadone.

[nick]

In da Uk,(from wat i remember) your dr is the one who writes the script, but they wont write ya a script, wivout ya goin to a clinic....So you go to "counselling clinic" they write ya Dr that you is recieving "counselling" dr writes script, take script to pharmacia and then make daily journey to pharmacy and pick up ya dose.....But you dont have to drink it on the premises..Its in a sealed bottle and most junkies just save em up at home or sell it....
This is da "free clinics".......

Private payin ones you just get ya script ,take it pharmacia and pick up a shitloada meds.....(they have drs on site to write da scripts)...

Things have changed bro.Due to potential budget savings GP'S are being encouraged to write or share care with specialist clinics.Only "complex" cases are refered to DDU'S in many areas these days.It sounds easier,but there's one hell of a drop in the standard of care.

For diamorphine you have to go to a DDU(clinic).Docs need a license to write for diamorphine,diconal and C.There are about 50 docs with the license,when there should be 100-it appears writing for a bunch of fiends isn't an appealing career option for docs.

And the original question.I've never had any real problems with the physical part of a kick-it's the psychological part,later that I have problems with.Eventually,one way or another,it's gonna hurt.

[stick+lick]

Was wondering if someone actually hooked on a fairly good dose of w/e opiate could actually detox with little or no symptoms if they titrated their dose down slow enough. Like say starting on 100mg methadone and only dropping half a mg every 2 weeks or something? Will the body just pick a time to say 'fuck no i know im goin down' or is it possible to go hella slow enough to trick the body into not even realizing it. Especially if u dont jump off from too high a dose.


I have a couple of close friends who have done this successfully--meaning they tapered and stayed in recovery for YEARS after.

-getting up to an adequate dose and STAYING there for a while....until their lives were stabilized
-they stopped the taper and went back up a few mgs if they ever felt wd or wanted to use--even the desire to use a little extra methadone.

It took years and lets face it, most of us don't have the patience. We want what we want and we want it NOW. It's not an opiate addict trait--it's an AMERICAN trait! lol

[SHELLEY]

I never crave H. I never need to have it, but I do want it, especially when i have a rough day, but it's like wanting a beer.

same here
and i used to do over 3g/day

i sho nuff do crave dat cocaine tho

[SurfRat]

Been shooting H for the past year, but it was only over the past eight months half a gram a day, and for the past 2 months I was shooting about a gram a day.

It took me awhile to get over the depression part, life can be very boring when you're not high, especially when you only have 3 different channels...you get so tired of news about every three hours. But I never got sick, feverish, shakes, sweats, although sometimes i was cold when it was very warm in the apartment.

I quit that regime about 15 days ago. I never crave H. I never need to have it, but I do want it, especially when i have a rough day, but it's like wanting a beer. I have used since then, but i have bought H twice in the past 15 days instead of every day which has left me with more money. I don't know how it worked for me, I wish my roommate had it as easy.


Is it possible you were getting a lot of cut/weaker product? Just wondering, maybe not such a bad thing...

I agree about the psychological, for me, psychological trumps physical by a lot and in the long run,

by everything.

[SHELLEY]

Is it possible you were getting a lot of cut/weaker product? Just wondering, maybe not such a bad thing...

i was in rehab with this crackhead bitch
who said she shot heroin every day and lived in my city
but i didn't know ANY of her dope dealers, but i did know her crack dealers
then we got our piss tests for intake,
and this girl tested positive for only coke, completely neg for heroin
she was like "what the fuck was i shooting every day then?"
psychologically, she got 'dopesick' every day cuz she thought she was supposed to
and of course it helped her come down off the crack haha
that psychosomatic shit is real

[Saint]

same here
and i used to do over 3g/day

i sho nuff do crave dat cocaine tho

The scary thing is that you can NOT crave H for a long time, years even, and then suddenly BANG.. it's back. Happened to me several times - even after 5 years without ANY - and I still don't know what exactly triggers it.
Coke on the other hand I don't crave. The thought of it alone makes me gag.
To each his own.

[Opiyum]

Sure...but the trouble is, we get tired of it, and day usually comes when one says "fuck this shit, I'm getting loaded..."

I got off 50 mg mdone in around 3 months and I didn't feel a thing...drop a little every week, all the way down to nothing...but I had to do it thru a clinic...I have no self-control when I've got opiates in my cupboard...it's all I think about...

That's what they need to invent to combat opiate addiction. A pill that increases will power and self control. Problem solved right there.