Went on Subutex, came off Valium - need both!

[luciddream]

I’ve been at clinic for 12 months and have 12 months clean drug screening on record. For the last few months I requested a benzodiazepine, don’t care which one, as I have insomnia and am stressed out all the time. I find it impossible to relax. In the UK it seems they believe that benzos are worse than crack. The doc even stated that benzos are ‘the most dangerous and addictive substance there is’. Before I went into treatment I had prescription for Valium from GP which was cut off once subutex doc tipped off GP I was in treatment.
Basically they are telling me to ‘get on with it’. The only thing I now take is Subutex, but it doesn’t do very much at all. Currently thinking of transferring somewhere else or quitting outright as all the staff are uncaring shits.
Any suggestions on how to force them to help? I’d like to complain but
1) Will it make any difference?
2) Would rather not make enemies
It seems to be very difficult to criticise/challenge doctors because of how it is set up. Would another clinic be more compassionate?

[chemboy7]

Are you asking the clinic to prescribe the benzos to you or are you asking for them to approve of getting a script of them from a doctor? Either way, from what I have seen of Methadone clinics here in the states it probably isn't going to matter much trying to reason with them... they aren't swayed very easily. I know of people that have benzo scripts in treatment but they had them before they entered and had to fight like hell to keep them going in.

[runormal]

the title of this thread lifted my eyebrow for a second there!

there is a big stigma about bupe and benzos here in the states, the doctors like to use the example of the european person shooting bupe and benzos and falling out as a reason not to rx the two. so perhaps being closer to the origin of this story is why they are not thrilled about the combo. if is it just sleep you are after there should be some other alternative med they can rx for you right?

[Narkotikon]

What dose of Subutex are you on? Is it possible to slightly increase the dose? Not that that will probably help, and if it does, the positive effects will probably diminish over time. I understand why doctors are weary of not prescribing benzos and Subs at the same time, but I think it's overly cautious. Some people do need them. The only other thing I could say would be is it possible to switch to methadone rather than Subs? I find that stuff to be a lot more sedating and more effective at controlling anxiety, mainly because it knocks your ass out. But, I'd think long and hard about it. But, to answer your question, no, unfortunately, I don't think reasoning with them will do much good. Clinics are just set in their ways. You can rationalize with them until you turn blue, it won't matter usually. Good luck.

Edit: Oh, and did you give permission for your clinic to contact your former benzo doctor? I don't know how it works in the UK concerning confidentiality, but here it's a BIG no no for doctors to tip off other doctors without your written consent. Yes, it does happen, but it's illegal for them to do that. A doctor here can NOT contact another doctor unless you consent to it. HIPPA laws and all. Not that it stops some, especially when it's concerning controlled substances.

[SHELLEY]

I’ve been at clinic for 12 months and have 12 months clean drug screening on record. For the last few months I requested a benzodiazepine, don’t care which one, as I have insomnia and am stressed out all the time. I find it impossible to relax. In the UK it seems they believe that benzos are worse than crack. The doc even stated that benzos are ‘the most dangerous and addictive substance there is’. Before I went into treatment I had prescription for Valium from GP which was cut off once subutex doc tipped off GP I was in treatment.
Basically they are telling me to ‘get on with it’. The only thing I now take is Subutex, but it doesn’t do very much at all. Currently thinking of transferring somewhere else or quitting outright as all the staff are uncaring shits.
Any suggestions on how to force them to help? I’d like to complain but
1) Will it make any difference?
2) Would rather not make enemies
It seems to be very difficult to criticise/challenge doctors because of how it is set up. Would another clinic be more compassionate?

force them to give you benzos? no, you can't
they don't HAVE to give you anything while in treatment, not even for w/d
clinics (esp methadone and bupe clinics) are famous for the "my way or the highway" attitude
if you really want valium that bad and they say hell no,
i guess you gotta pick which one is more important

compassionate clinic? they are there to get paid, not so you can get high

[Duckfeet]

Also, most people on bupe learn that they are somewhat "speedy" for many of us...that's why I *didn't* split dose, as then I couldn't sleep at night...I always took my subs when I first woke up, and w/coffee, got really rolling...but it could be that...plus, in the U.S. anyway, desire for benzos among mdone or bupe users, is seen as classical drug seeking behavior, so they don't like allowing it...no matter what doc thinks...before benzos everybody on methadone wanted barbituates, which is why some of the first movies shot of people on methadone were hilarious...as they were all kind of, like, obviously fucked up...

[Poppylvr]

Interesting thread -my Sub doc recently began prescribing kpins for me (only 30 1 mg/month) when I asked him. He had no problem at all with that even tho I have no past history of anxiety unless hospitalized.
Guess I'm just lucky - I do enjoy the relaxation on a weekend or when I cannot sleep. I also have an ambien script, but have had that for YEARS & have never abused it.

[Saint]

I was prescribed 50 mgs of serax daily along with a ridiculously high dose of 24 mgs subuxone. I failed on the subs and tapered the serax to 10 mgs a day but still use it. My doc didn't have any problem with RX-ing the serax. They do it all the time here to help with the WD-anxiety. Than slowly taper you off once you're stabilised in a year or so.

[chemboy7]

Isn't the ceinling dose of Bupe something like 18mg?

[Saint]

Isn't the ceinling dose of Bupe something like 18mg?

I thought it was 32 mg. In Holland they prescribe sub up to 32 mgs. But 24 mgs was way too high a dose coming from 15 mgs methadone. I felt terrible on the stuff (on lower doses as well) and switched back to done.

[Narkotikon]

It is 32mg. Most people will not need that much though, and they will feel like shit on that high of a dose. The golden rule is less is more with bupe.

[luciddream]

Thanks for replies. I didn’t give consent to contact my GP, they got the address from standard forms you fill in when you sign up, but they did guarantee confidentiality.
Currently on 12mg Subutex. If they can give out methadone, a class A, surely they can give out Valium (class C). As regards methadone, I am apprehensive, I was told that coming off it is ridiculous, basically the worst withdrawal going. I have a legitimate reason for needing Valium that goes back 2 years, and have seen specialists who agreed.
Don’t know much about Ambien, is it as effective as a benzo and is it less restricted? Also, is there something else that has a similar effect that is less controversial? I’ve tried Benadryl – good for allergies but not sleep/relaxing, and clonidine, which wiped me out, feels like the morning after an all night party.
We have a strange situation here where you can buy codeine OTC in small quantities, but that is the strongest you are going to get unless you have cancer/surgery. In US I understand they give out Vicodin and Oxycodone more liberally – they do not even exist here. Basically it’s either codeine or morphine, and there’s a huge gap in the middle for those with the intermediate type chronic pain which isn’t serious enough for morphine. Even for short term acute pain you have to basically shout and browbeat to get them to do something. When it comes to benzos, it seems they are even more restricted in some ways, although it depends on the individual doctor. I know a few people who have been in genuine, verifiable pain and gotten... paracetamol.

[luciddream]

Just to add, the Subutex + Valium was an ideal combo, the Valium potentiatiates Subutex so it works much more effectively and I never felt the need to take anything stronger. Now the Subutex alone hardly does anything, like I said, it’s basically my will power preventing me from using. To be honest, I’m on the brink of going back to old ways because of these cunts.
Here is how I see it: Valium relaxes you > better quality sleep > not tired/bad tempered > better able to deal with life > less chance of taking drugs, which is the goal of maintenance clinic

[chemboy7]

Now the Subutex alone hardly does anything, like I said, it’s basically my will power preventing me from using.

Well that and the fact that you probably wouldn't feel the dope on the subs anyways.