The inconsistencies of Suboxone

[Opiyum]

Has anyone else experienced great inconsistencies with suboxone in regards to both it's blocking action and the ease at which one can switch from dope to subs?
I sometimes am pleasantly surprised when using dope after a long time on subs to find little to no blocking effect and unfortunately sometimes this works the other way too. Point being there is a great amount of variance here.
Now lately this could be due to the fact that I've been doing a lot more heroin and a lot less (no) Oxy's and Dilaudid. So one could argue that it's a result of purity but quite a few of my connections actually work together and for weeks at a time the dope will all be the same yet will yield different results at different times. The same inconsistencies used to occur when doing pills too so that couldn't have been a purity or dose issue.
The other surprising thing is that sometimes when I expect a difficult transition back to subs because of extended use of dope I find myself feeling perfectly fine on the subs 24 -72 hours after my last dose of heroin.
Then there are times where I would think it would be easy since maybe I only took a two or three day break from the subs, using dope just for the weekend or some other event, and I find it to be a difficult 48 hours of stomach pain, restless legs, fluctuating body temp, flu symptoms etc...
The only certainty seems to be uncertainty.
What would explain this disparity?

[jonny-5]

bupe is a weird fucking drug, man. i think ive heard that here way more times than i could ever count. heres one thing i can always count on with bupe: the more i switch back and forth, the harder the transition back to subs will be. another is that i will be fine on it for about a month or two and then somehow whatever mild pleasure i might get from it, that little opiate glow if you will, goes away and i start to only feel bad side effects. this is more true with suboxone than subutex, and some would say "well, its an opiate, so the effects are gonna lessen over time." thats true, but after 6 months of straight heroin i still get pleasure from a nice shot. i think it has to do with the fact that theres no real way to take more bupe, the more you take the more it blocks itself.

ok im completely off topic. but i do know what youre talking about, every time i switch back i have no idea what to expect, except that it will be worse than the last time. its a weird fucking drug, man.

[ryan]

Well what happened to me was, I was on sub religiously for 2 1/2 years, and then went back to dope.
At first I was doing 10 bag shots and couldn't get high ....At first I thought it was the dope so then I scored some OC 80's, took 4 of them at once (insufflated) and didn't feel a thing. This lasted about a week, then I was able to get a decent buzz -- but I still had to do insane ammounts just to feel anything. I was doing like 5-10 bag shots on the regular, about 4-5 times a day. It was insane. I finally HAD to go back to bupe and found that it did not work at all. I had fucked my tolerance so bad that not even 32mg of bupe was doing anything for my withdrawals. I had never experienced this before...before my clean time I was relapsing left and right and going back and forth from h to subs and never had a problem. Bottom line, bupe is a very inconsistent drug :P. I only wish that I could relate to it not having a blocking effect on other opies, like you describe. For me, thats pretty much ALL it did -- blocked the shit out of everything else, so much so that I had to use rediculous amounts just to feel it.

[jonny-5]

Well what happened to me was, I was on sub religiously for 2 1/2 years, and then went back to dope.
At first I was doing 10 bag shots and couldn't get high ....At first I thought it was the dope so then I scored some OC 80's, took 4 of them at once (insufflated) and didn't feel a thing. This lasted about a week, then I was able to get a decent buzz -- but I still had to do insane ammounts just to feel anything. I was doing like 5-10 bag shots on the regular, about 4-5 times a day. It was insane. I finally HAD to go back to bupe and found that it did not work at all. I had fucked my tolerance so bad that not even 32mg of bupe was doing anything for my withdrawals. I had never experienced this before...before my clean time I was relapsing left and right and going back and forth from h to subs and never had a problem. Bottom line, bupe is a very inconsistent drug :P. I only wish that I could relate to it not having a blocking effect on other opies, like you describe. For me, thats pretty much ALL it did -- blocked the shit out of everything else, so much so that I had to use rediculous amounts just to feel it.


the reason it blocked so much was prolly due to the fact that you take so much of it. i NEVER, and i mean never take more than 4mg at a time. usually 2mg is a big dose for me. doing this, it never blocks heroin. i can take 2mg in the morning then in the afternoon do a shot of dope and feel it, granted i have to do a bigger shot than i would have if not for the bupe.

this has been a pattern for me over the last year or so on bupe: i take it for a couple months, then i decide im gonna do some dope. i decide im gonna chip, so i do dope once every two weeks, on a friday. that works out fine for a few chipping cycles and then something happens like i get some shitty dope and dont get off. so the next day i do some good dope to make up for it. thats where i fuck up, i dont stick to the schedule and then im back on dope. you would think i would learn that i cant chip, but i guess i forget that after 2 months on bupe.

[Opiyum]

As is so often said with bupe less is more. I didn't mention my regular dose which is 2-4mgs a day. Maybe a touch more when just getting back on it if only for the physcological effect.

i do some good dope to make up for it. thats where i fuck up, i dont stick to the schedule and then im back on dope. you would think i would learn that i cant chip, but i guess i forget that after 2 months on bupe. __________________


I try to stay to a schedule too. I try to control my intake of dope as best I can but a lot of times, like you, I find reasons to break that schedule. I figure, to myself, well I already started using dope and that shot sucked so I might as well go until I get some good dope. Or, Well I have to do this or that tomorrow and boy would it be nice to have some dope for that...etc etc

[roxi*stardust]

What johnny said he experienced, the more often he switched from his DOC back to Subs the harder it became, is pretty much my experience also. Not only did it not work for withdrawal or cravings, I would get sick no matter how long I waited afyter my last dose of my DOC. It used to be easy, take my last dose of my DOC in the evening and wake up the next morning sometimes less than 12 hours later, take my Sub and be fine. Then it got to the point where 36 or 40 hours was not long enough, it would kick me into w/d every time. It got to the point where I wanted nothing at all to do with Subs, I won't ever touch them now, literally. I try my hardest to take my meds right now and not run out, just to make sure I never have to see that orange shit! I take Methadone now if I do run out, it works 100x better for cravings, w/d symptoms, and pain; I don't have to worry about getting ill either. Fuck Suboxone!

[chopstix]

Fuck Suboxone!

x2

As much as I hate MD, I think bup might be worse overall.. Never again..

[Opiyum]

I don't know that it gets worse all the time for me. Two years ago it used to be easier but in my experience it's always different. for the most part yes it is not an easy switch for me anymore but sometimes I am surprised.
That's more what I'm talking about in this thread than how it is to switch. More than that I'm talking about the way that the blocking effect is always a crap shoot.
I'm all too familiar with the effects or suboxone and the problems with suboxone. It's the fact that nothing seems to be set in stone with them that I am interested in talking about.

[runormal]

i remember someone posted a while back about how he waited a full 5 days after being on bupe 2mg for a year - and even after 5 days didn't feel a thing when he took OCs. that post always comes right to mind when i think about taking breaks from mine. I had strange things happen -but they were related directly to what my DOC was when i took breaks.

One of the first breaks i ever took - after about 2 weeks on subs at a 2mg a day - i stopped the subs and started taking OCs. Over the course of that week, each day i felt the OCs peeking out and saying hello just a little bit more each day, until finally on day 5 - they felt like business as usual. but, overall i still never felt i had the pure OC only feeling i was looking for

A couple months later, after being on 4mg a day - i decided to try pods. i had already taken my morning sub dose but said fuck it and made my first batch of tea - 3-4 heads used. drank half and put the rest into thermos and headed to work. as i was driving i got this burning pressure from behind my eyes and my neck gets stiff. i look in the rearview and my eyes were so fucking pinned it made me so happy to see that after so long. and the next week as the subs wore off more and more i officially feel in love pods.

so yeah - with the ocs i thought for sure - they'd blast thru the subs and i'd be feeling good, and i hadn't been on them for long. then after months of taking subs - i get blasted on tea the same day.

[Woowoo]

I think the variances in experience are no greater than the variances you'd expect to find in street dope. There are some bags that are mediocre and some that have you hanging on for dear life. Another cause of variance is the fact that sublingual administration has many factors to influence its efficiency. If one day you are salivating at a slightly quicker rate you might swallow a good amount of the drug. By the way, here's a tip: if you mouthwash before taking it, more gets in your bloodstream.

[limitless_euphoria]

Speaking of inconsistencies... I've heard more than one testimonial about one person taking a dose one day and it working and then taking the same dose the next day and they still feel like they're in mild w/d. I know one dude even asked his doc if there was a "bad batch" of subs out there or something!

I personally take subutex and have had no problems. But amazingly I've been very, very consistent and not flip-flippin' around. I've heard some mixed reports as far as whether bupe blocks your own endorphins. I've heard a couple of people say yes it does and I've heard a few others (including a doctor) say no it does not.

Also, not to talk shit about anyone specifically, but I think *SOME* people post things that they think sound like make sense but then if you do the research they don't. EXAMPLE: I'm not naming names (mainly cause IDR who this was) but someone treid to say that only suboxone has a ceiling effect whereas subutex does not. They tried to say it was because of the naloxone. Truth be told, the bupe has more of an affinity for the receptors than does the naloxone itself. I'm not trying to slander anyone but I think it's nettiqute to make sure if you post information that you can back it up with a source if it comes into question. Just my opinion--that's all.

So has anyone ever taken suboxone/subutex that does not work or do you feel as though it's still left you hanging with w/d symptoms? Anyone, anywhere hear of a "bad batch" out there? And, I'm trying to find out for sure, but is it established if bupe blocks your own endorphins or not?

[oxy kid]

I agree, BUPE is a weird drug. Different for everyone.

[ryan]

So has anyone ever taken suboxone/subutex that does not work or do you feel as though it's still left you hanging with w/d symptoms? Anyone, anywhere hear of a "bad batch" out there? And, I'm trying to find out for sure, but is it established if bupe blocks your own endorphins or not?

That was my experience, to the T. I have come to the conclusion that bupe will not fully take away wd's if (a) your tollerance is very high or (b) you have been jumping back and forth so many times

Believe me, I used to jump back and forth like no other, and I can remember feeling so good after taking that first suboxone. Not so anymore. I wonder if the receptors get damaged or something? Because even now, when my *break* period consists of nothing more than a few days doing like 1-2 bags IV'd per day barely getting off, when I go back to sub it STILL doesn't work like it used to...so it can't be a tollerance thing, right?

And about bupe blocking your own endorphins, I'm pretty sure it's just like any other opiate...the more you take it, the more it blocks the naturally occuring opiates and the more your body stops making them. That's why withdrawals happen...right? If it didn't do that, then when you get off of bupe, you would have no withdrawals....or is my thinking flawed?

[Opiyum]

Speaking of inconsistencies... I've heard more than one testimonial about one person taking a dose one day and it working and then taking the same dose the next day and they still feel like they're in mild w/d. I know one dude even asked his doc if there was a "bad batch" of subs out there or something!

I personally take subutex and have had no problems. But amazingly I've been very, very consistent and not flip-flippin' around. I've heard some mixed reports as far as whether bupe blocks your own endorphins. I've heard a couple of people say yes it does and I've heard a few others (including a doctor) say no it does not.

Also, not to talk shit about anyone specifically, but I think *SOME* people post things that they think sound like make sense but then if you do the research they don't. EXAMPLE: I'm not naming names (mainly cause IDR who this was) but someone treid to say that only suboxone has a ceiling effect whereas subutex does not. They tried to say it was because of the naloxone. Truth be told, the bupe has more of an affinity for the receptors than does the naloxone itself. I'm not trying to slander anyone but I think it's nettiqute to make sure if you post information that you can back it up with a source if it comes into question. Just my opinion--that's all.

So has anyone ever taken suboxone/subutex that does not work or do you feel as though it's still left you hanging with w/d symptoms? Anyone, anywhere hear of a "bad batch" out there? And, I'm trying to find out for sure, but is it established if bupe blocks your own endorphins or not?

I believe it's also not good nettiqute to hijack another persons thread.
I kid I kid.

All the subs I have had have dont what they were supposed to do. I've never had a bad batch or anything like that.

WOOWOO- I see what your saying but of course street dope is going to vary a great deal but a drug produced in a lab shouldn't to the extent that it does I don't think.
What you are saying about absorbtion is one explanation that is possible. Still I don't think that can explain it all away because my dose, even with variances in sublingual absorbtion, would only be between 1-4 milligrams a day. I try to take less than a quarter of an eight a day so the least that could get absorbed would be 1milligram per dose. Maybe a touch less even which would still be almost 2mg's a day.
I think it may be part of it but I don't think that is the long and short of it.

I realize that it effects everyone differently too. That's a given with any drug really. That doesn't explain what Im talking about either though.

[On_The_Nod]

For some reason, I have never had a bit of trouble switching over from oxys to sub. I can toot up an 80 one morning, and take 2 mgs of sub at night when the wd's are first starting and be perfectly fine. Maybe im just wierd but my brother is also the same way, and so is one his friends who is in the same boat as us.

[Opiyum]

For some reason, I have never had a bit of trouble switching over from oxys to sub. I can toot up an 80 one morning, and take 2 mgs of sub at night when the wd's are first starting and be perfectly fine. Maybe im just wierd but my brother is also the same way, and so is one his friends who is in the same boat as us.

I used to be that way..In fact I think there are posts of mine somewhere on here say just what your saying.