would you take instead of waste?

[lynzee]

Hello all. I, like most of you, have addiction issues along with chronic pain. It was actually my chronic pain that led me to become an addict. So anyways, I've been on sub for almost two years now for maintenance and haven't slipped the whole time, however, I get really bored and have cravings and am trying to taper down and would love to one day be off.

Here is my current fear and worry: I am about to graduate from nursing school in May in which I will become a registered nurse, assuming that I will pass boards for licensure. As most of you know, nurses are around drugs a lot, and even waste "good" drugs on a regular basis. I do not want to fuck up and risk losing my license, which I have worked so hard for, but I feel like if I don't stay on the subs I will be tempted to take what isn't mine at work, especially if my back is killing me. Do those of you who have health jobs like nursing struggle with this?

I would just hate myself if I fucked up a good career. Also, those of you who don't work in health field---would you be able to keep from taking instead of wasting if you were a nurse? I've been working as a nurse assistant for almost 4 years now and have already done things I'm ashamed of (before I got on subs) but luckily never got caught , so I know I'm cabable of doing something stupid if I'm hurting bad enough, which tends to happen at work due to all the lifting nurses have to do. I hate my selfish weakness when it comes to controlled meds.

[Method]

First of all good luck to you on the boards and being a nurse.

I do not work in a health field at all , well maybe when someone shoots them selves with a nail gun or something and one of use does onsite removal and closing up wound so they can go back to work. I dont think i have the self control to be able to be around pharms and not be able to take it , if i need it, specially if it was going to be thrown out.

Its like starving a fat person for a few days and then putting them in a room with something from every fastfood resturant and telling them not to eat anything. I dont think they would last 30 sec ... (no offence to anyone )

[runormal]

this topic has actually come up before - i think a certain someone might be able to give you some really good insight on this situation ....

It is sort of, but in a much different way, the same situation for people in retail - when you have the cash drawer and all the money in front of you at the end of the day - there have been days when i have looked at enough cash to pay off every cent of my credit card debt - and you have think of it as monopoly money i guess. I know if someone was sick or in wd the stakes are different though.

[rockbottom]

i was a medical assistant and a psychtech----i used to watch them waste pure morphine--one time they made me waste xanax and soma----it just slipped out of my mouth -man what a waste---supposed to be a witness when u waste but whenever they were lax i kept the drugs and charted i wasted them----be careful once u become a nurse u usually get one chance---even not being a nurse i was around alot of drugs--one of my jobs was to call in prescriptions--talk about wolf in the henhouse--i made up 4 patients and picked up my meds once a week-----but im not trying to stay clean and never was--in ur case be careful----be very careful---to me it was literally a sin to waste good drugs----so i never would if i could get away with it------never got caught in all the 10 years i worked in the med field--blessed by Satan

[Badly Drawn Girl]

The temptation would be too much for me, especially when dealing with drugs that will be thrown out. Good luck with the boards!

[ndoftaworld]

It is sort of, but in a much different way, the same situation for people in retail - when you have the cash drawer and all the money in front of you at the end of the day - there have been days when i have looked at enough cash to pay off every cent of my credit card debt - and you have think of it as monopoly money i guess. I know if someone was sick or in wd the stakes are different though.

Reminds me of working at a local grocery store. It *would* have been so EASY to take say $40 bux from a customer, $20 in the drawer, $20 crumpled up in hand, then pocketed. Throughout the day, just give customers generic $1 coupons till the total 'earned' was made up... But again, just in theory - Not worth the jailtime (Dude DID get caught one day, but dumbass had taken $900 in ONE DAY!! He deserved what he got)

Definitely a hard position... but only u know if ur will-power is strong enough... And for your freedom/career's sake - I hope u do :)

Good luck!

Nd

[Saint]

A bit off topic but do subs work for your pain? For me they didn't at ALL and that's why I'm reluctant to try them again..
There's plenty of people with experience in the nursing field here so I guess you'll get a more decent reply soon..

[Princess]

I wish you the best of luck.

You are in control of the situation... not the other way around...

There are people here who can answer this question properly.

Best of luck.

[duck]

I feel I come from a similar perspective-- closing in on a good degree, been on subbies for a while, but still have my appetites. That being said, it would take a drastic change of personality for me if I were to be off subs. I recently quit subs and all else after a sub taper, the way I crave opiates now is so, so much stronger than when on subs. So, so much. But I hate subs, so I'd be generally fucked.

[lynzee]

A bit off topic but do subs work for your pain? For me they didn't at ALL and that's why I'm reluctant to try them again..
There's plenty of people with experience in the nursing field here so I guess you'll get a more decent reply soon..


Subs don't work that good for pain, but better than nothing...however, I think they help my tolerance to pain, if that makes any sense because it seems like I can handle more pain than I used to--although I had a much greater tolerance to pain before I ever took opiates, and I think my back is in better shape than it used to be too. But if I stay on the subs, get a job as a nurse, even if I'm at work and my back hurts, I'm more likely able to control not stealing other meds because I'll know they won't work anyway--because of the sub.. but I'm getting real tired of sub.

[Poppylvr]

Here is my current fear and worry: I am about to graduate from nursing school in May in which I will become a registered nurse, assuming that I will pass boards for licensure. As most of you know, nurses are around drugs a lot, and even waste "good" drugs on a regular basis. I do not want to fuck up and risk losing my license, which I have worked so hard for, but I feel like if I don't stay on the subs I will be tempted to take what isn't mine at work, especially if my back is killing me. Do those of you who have health jobs like nursing struggle with this?

I would just hate myself if I fucked up a good career. Also, those of you who don't work in health field---would you be able to keep from taking instead of wasting if you were a nurse? I've been working as a nurse assistant for almost 4 years now and have already done things I'm ashamed of (before I got on subs) but luckily never got caught , so I know I'm cabable of doing something stupid if I'm hurting bad enough, which tends to happen at work due to all the lifting nurses have to do. I hate my selfish weakness when it comes to controlled meds.
Lynzee - I am at work (RN) and cannot give you a full reply at this time. PLease post to my profile & I will get back to you tomorrow. I can answer all your questions.

[digby]

I can sympathize with your problem. Waste is not so much a moral problem, as you aren't really stealing from anyone - just using what someone is throwing away. But picture yourself getting busted with a leftover vial of morphine in your pocket and what that would do to your medical career....and all the drugs those payroll checks would pay for.

Still, it's tough. When I worked at the Post Office in San Francisco in the late 60's, the pharmaceutical companies sent out drug samples to all the doctors in the area, and they all came through Rincoln Annex!
I'll never forget the look I got from the fellow long hair working beside me after looking at hundreds upon hundreds of postcard style blister packs of dex and methamphetamine heaped upon each other and running the entire length of the conveyer belt! They sent out sample packs of almost everything, and as they were samples, their was no tracking on them and the doctors would never even know they didn't recieve them.
Sheesh! :rolleyes:

[roxi*stardust]

Hi lynzee, I am a Pharmacy Tech, have been for more than ten years now. At this time I am not working, long story short two un-necessary elbow surgeries later I have been diagnosed with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and Complex Regional Pain Syndrome and am off work due to doctor's restrictions. Anyway I started using opiates, prescribed by my doctor, about 5 years into my career. I eventually became addicted to pills like many of us here have. As you can imagine, my job gave me access to all the good meds. I was handling tons of Vicodin, Percocet, OxyContin, Roxicodone (my DOC), Morphine, Hydromorphone, etc daily, even mixing patients' Morphine IVs. I am proud to report, as tempting as it was especially when I was close to being out of my pills or even dopesick, I NEVER took even a single pill or any other form of medication from my job. Believe me, it was EXTREMELY HARD to resist the temptation but I was WAY too afraid of losing my job and career, being arrested and charged with a felony, going to jail, and causing embarassment to my family to do it. I had approved Family Medical Leave that I used to take off days when my pain was bad which was really when I was dopesick. I currently am on pain medication and still don't usually make it through the month but I live with it.

[Poppylvr]

Lynzee
Well into my career as a RN, I began doing exactly what you are contemplating. I figured, what a horrible waste of a perfectly good drug! Here's the "criminal thinking error" as those in corrections put it : I DID'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH STEALING THE DRUGS.
Very quickly after I started stealing the waste, I moved on to actually stealing pills from the narcotics drawer. In the old days, they were more lax, and it was fairly easy. Again, I rationalized, well, I'm not REALLY stealing.
But it continued. I then began to steal from patients, by substituting tylenol for their Percocet. Now I was in ugly moral/ethical waters. Even I couldn't justify this kind of theft. I eventually could no longer live with myself and I turned myself in after a couple of years of that.
That was in 1990.
I went to treatment, had sanctions against my nursing license, but was able to keep my job because I had turned myself in. I was able to patch together some clean time and I quit stealing drugs and did OK for a couple of years.
Because I am a drug addict, I began craving again. I had now shifted my position to Labor & Delivery. It was much easier to steal morphine in L&D than it was pills, so I learned how to inject myself. I loved the rush of IV morphine and fentanyl. This time around, I did not have any moral qualms. It was very easy to get the "wasted" PCA syringes, and it's just waste, after all, right? As my addiction progressed I moved back into stealing drugs from patients again.
This time, I was caught. I maintained my 4 times a day 20 mg at a time IV habit for 1.5 years, but I got lazy about where I would shoot up. I was eventually caught because a housekeeper found an empty syringe in the regular trash.
I CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGH, DO NOT STEAL DRUGS FROM YOUR WORKPLACE!
I was charged with 34 2cd degree felonies - each vial, each pill is a separate felony and that was 3 days worth. By grace, I was allowed to plead guilty to 1 count after they plea bargained it down to 7 counts or separate felonies. If you search on these boards you'll learn that I just now, after 10 years (I was arrested in Nov 1998), got my felony record expunged.
My license was put on probation again, this time I was fired and it took me a very long time to find a job in nursing - I had to start back as a MA in my kids pediatrician's office because no one would hire me. I was able over time to get back into nursing, for which I am very grateful.
Things are different in my state now. Someone with a narcotics record, especially a felony record has a very hard time even getting their nursing license . Most nursing schools will not admit them because they know they won't get licensed.
Being arrested, having to confront what an ugly thing I had done, having to tell my children, carrying the title felon, have all been ugly. I continue as a narcotics addict. In January of last year I began Suboxone because despite everything I went through I was craving again. The Suboxone allows me to work, and it gives me some peace against my addict brain.
I understand your struggle, and I wish you well. I take my Suboxone, and handing out the occasional Lortab doesn't bother me - but I work in psych now, where we don't have to deal with narcotics that much - mostly drugs no one in their right mind would take (pun intended).
Please feel free to ask me any questions. if I could help one person from going down the road I did, it would be a mitzvah (blessing).
Good luck with school.

[Angelwolf13]

poppy, WOW! if that isn't convincing enough to turn away from the temptation, nothing is! thank you for sharing that. i'm sure that wasn't easy to do.

[Dan Steely]

I feel I come from a similar perspective-- closing in on a good degree, been on subbies for a while, but still have my appetites. That being said, it would take a drastic change of personality for me if I were to be off subs. I recently quit subs and all else after a sub taper, the way I crave opiates now is so, so much stronger than when on subs. So, so much. But I hate subs, so I'd be generally fucked.

Why do you hate subs? I feel incredibly normal on low doses and like you say it makes staying away from junk easy.

[dharma bum]

Yes! I was waiting on poppylvr to chime with her experience.

There was a local registered nurse who got caught with her hand in the cookie jar. I don't know what

drug, she says Ultram was all. She was forced to enter rehab. She called the hospital after 6 months

and said

"I'm ready to come back to work". They made her stay in an out-patient rehab another six months just

to make sure she was "cured". She was reinstated and eventually became an RN, before that started

an NA group. She is my counceler, not drug councelour(sp!!) but therapist type so i can get my zoloft,

wellbutrin, and hydroxyzine. She is a great gal but has NO tolerance for drug use. She is very hardcore

about it.

[roxi*stardust]

Why do you hate subs? I feel incredibly normal on low doses and like you say it makes staying away from junk easy.

Why is that so hard for you to believe? Not everyone's brain/body is programmed the same, this is why some people prefer Morphine to Oxycodone or Fentanyl to Diluadid. Suboxone just does not help everyone, especially with cravings. Most of the people I have run into to that "hate" Suboxone say that it did not control their cravings or help much with the mental aspect. I have even talked to a few people that actually did not physically tolerate Suboxone very well, even after being on it for several days or weeks they either continued to be sick or got sicker. In fact, I thing that SHELLEY had this experience with it.

I personally didn't find Suboxone to very effective at all for controlling my cravings, granted it did control any physical withdrawal symptoms I experienced but I continued to use my DOC because it just did not help my cravings. I think part of this was that I do have a condition that is very painful and I got not an ounce of pain relief from it; since my pain was not at a tolerable level I continued to crave opiates. I found Methadone to be much more effective than Suboxone in controlling both the physical and mental parts of withdrawal plus it helped my pain a great deal.

[lynzee]

Thanks everyone, for your heartfelt replies--I feel a little better about my situation.
Poppy, thank you so much for your story.. it means so much to me....I too, have already stolen from patients, when I worked as a nursing assistant in a nursing home I used to take fentanyl patches off of the residents. They were confused so the nurses thought they were just peeling them off themselves and throwing them out. However, after a whole year of doing that, I feared I would probably get caught soon because I was getting stupid about how often I would take them and I didn't want to mess up my future nursing career so I quit that job. Now I work at a hospital and the only thing I've ever done is take used fent patches out of the trash...I know its pathetic and gross but I figure there's no way I can get caught that way, however it doesn't happen very often. I know I'm going to be so tempted when I become a nurse, but after hearing your story poppy, I know I must try my hardest to refrain. I can't believe you got caught just because the housekeeper found the vial in the trash--how did they know it was you?
As for subs, although I roll my eyes as I say this, they are the best thing that ever happened to me. Subs are the only narcotic that I can actually manage and take what I am prescribed. I don't mean to diss them so much because they have been a life saver.... I just miss the old warm fuzzy feeling and the energy that fent and oxy used to give me... but I must get real, after a while they didn't do anything for me but make me feel normal and then provide a "crash" of tiredness, so then of course I'd take more. So I'll stay on subs for now and just dream, as I do almost every night, of yummy patches and pills of short lived pleasure....I've got a 6 month old baby now, and need to realize those days of drug binges are over....just still scared I'm going to slip up when I 'm surrounded by them as a nurse.

[JusChelle]

Wow. I'm sure that was difficult to talk about. Thank you for sharing though. I don't work around meds but that def. makes me think twice. I used to cleans homes and ONCE I was tempted to take meds from the gentleman's home I was cleaning. I didn't. I'm glad I didn't. In a split second I had a vison of shame and embarresment of getting arrested in front of my daughter. Needless to say, I didn't take the pills.

[losangeleslifer]

Lynzee, thank you for sharing your experience with us. I can appreciate your situation and I hope you make the decisions that will be best for you.

[Poppylvr]

Thanks everyone, for your heartfelt replies--I feel a little better about my situation.
Poppy, thank you so much for your story.. it means so much to me....I too, have already stolen from patients, when I worked as a nursing assistant in a nursing home I used to take fentanyl patches off of the residents. They were confused so the nurses thought they were just peeling them off themselves and throwing them out. However, after a whole year of doing that, I feared I would probably get caught soon because I was getting stupid about how often I would take them and I didn't want to mess up my future nursing career so I quit that job. Now I work at a hospital and the only thing I've ever done is take used fent patches out of the trash...I know its pathetic and gross but I figure there's no way I can get caught that way, however it doesn't happen very often. I know I'm going to be so tempted when I become a nurse, but after hearing your story poppy, I know I must try my hardest to refrain. I can't believe you got caught just because the housekeeper found the vial in the trash--how did they know it was you?
As for subs, although I roll my eyes as I say this, they are the best thing that ever happened to me. Subs are the only narcotic that I can actually manage and take what I am prescribed. I don't mean to diss them so much because they have been a life saver.... I just miss the old warm fuzzy feeling and the energy that fent and oxy used to give me... but I must get real, after a while they didn't do anything for me but make me feel normal and then provide a "crash" of tiredness, so then of course I'd take more. So I'll stay on subs for now and just dream, as I do almost every night, of yummy patches and pills of short lived pleasure....I've got a 6 month old baby now, and need to realize those days of drug binges are over....just still scared I'm going to slip up when I 'm surrounded by them as a nurse.
Lynzee - good for you for quiting that job. Now you need to quit stealing patches from the garbage. Happily our hospital has caught on to the abuse potential of used patches and they have to be sealed into a small plastic bag and returned to the dispensing machine for recount down in the pharm. I'm grateful they did that because we had one patient recently who was using patches. When I replaced her patch I was holding the old gross one with her skin cells & sweat on it & thinking Gosh, I've learned on Opi how to use these. For a split second I thought about it and then simultaneously the grossout factor of chewing someone else's cast off patch and the remembrance that at 8mg Suboxone a day it will take DAYS for me to enjoy the fent caused me to dispose of the drug properly.
I was one of those desperadoes who would stick my hand into the used syringe bucket to grab vials of drugs. I thought "Fuckit, the chance of me catching HIV or Hep C from one of these syringes is pretty low". I got poked several times. Still test negative for HIV & hepC, Thank God.
I found myself desiring benzos after handing them out in the funny farm. Nipped that problem in the bud by asking my MD for a script for klonopin which he gave me. When I crave that, I pop a kpin & I'm OK.
I'm grateful that I'm one of the lucky ones that Suboxone covers my cravings. Sure, I still think about the delicious feel of oxycodone, my DOC. But I don't CRAVE it like I have craved in the past, THANK GOD.
Lynzee, have you checked out the application form for taking the boards/getting your license? I know on my state's app there are several questions that would make you nervous. Check it out - you can usually download the app from your state's Board of Nursing site - go to your state.gov & search for Nusring Board. If you have questions, I can maybe help answer them.
Again, good luck. The high of knowing you have made a patient feel better by something you do or say, or have helped them change their life is as good as any drug.

[edhorfin]

Where else could someone like lynzee find the kind of expert personal history to give her insight. Outsiders look at this site as a "user sight" encouraging drug use and an all around bad place to go on teh internets.

Harm reduction can take on many forms. The responses to the original post may save a lot of people a lot of pain and suffering. lynzees patients, herself, anyone who is lurking and reads this thread in the same position....

I'm grateful for opiophile and really appreciate the service provided.

Ed