Heroin 1,2,3,4

[Papa Verine]

Hello everyone.

Here in Chicago we usually get heroin that's water-soluable. I don't understand the number system but it's the number _ heroin that dissolves easily in water and does not require citric acid, and it can also be snorted very effectively.

Well, recently, I got some of the "other" heroin. Number I don't know... but it doesn't seem to work when snorted. What can I do with this shit? When it's placed on foil and heated from underneath it bubbles up into a liquid and chases all over the foil... so I think it's that H they get in Europe. (Raz's dope)

Can somebody please explain to me the differences in these different numbers? Can the freebase shit be snorted? What should I do with it? I would prefer to snort it so if there's a way to make it more snortable I would love to hear it.

Thanks all. It's not even my dope. I got it for a friend but I want this friend to be able to get the most out of it so I want to give them some instructions. They snort it too...

[EleusisII]

I'm no experts, but since all the experts are busy wrapping dope up and putting it under the tree, I'll have a go at it...

The numbering system is no indication of quality, but just has to do with what kind it is. Whether its freebase, or an acid (hydrochloride).

If it's freebase, like the brown one you have, you can't snort it, but need to smoke it or IV it. If IV you need to add citric acid.

[laudaphun]

I'm no experts, but since all the experts are busy wrapping dope up and putting it under the tree, I'll have a go at it...

The numbering system is no indication of quality, but just has to do with what kind it is. Whether its freebase, or an acid (hydrochloride).

If it's freebase, like the brown one you have, you can't snort it, but need to smoke it or IV it. If IV you need to add citric acid.

I've always been under the impression that heroin #3 was raw, unpurified dope, and heroin #4 was if during the production process whoever the people involved were took the time and had the skill to refine it into pure dope, which should then be white as opposed to brown. SWIM has never seen anything other than water soluble dope. Actually, stuff that is beige has always been ok... but fucking brown dope, SWIM would rather go without. In SWIM's locality people typically don't want anything to do with the brown stuff... but the white/very light beige normally knocks my friend SWIM for a loop.

[Raz]

Bro if it chases, you can sniff it, fix it(cook it wiv vit c powder, citric acid) and it will be good to bang...

[upstate_007]

From the title I thought you were coming up with some new dopefiend dance move for all the crazy kids.

I really have no idea about the different types though. Wish I could help more.

[nick]

Bro if it chases, you can sniff it, fix it(cook it wiv vit c powder, citric acid) and it will be good to bang...

What el hombre Raz says,but if you fix it you need to cook it with citric-you'll need to heat it.Hell,it's easy to shoot because if I can do it.......any fool can.

[SHELLEY]

ive never heard of this number thing
i guess it's another one of those things about heroin
that i never bothered to learn because i was too busy shooting heroin

[bodymore]

I've always been under the impression that heroin #3 was raw, unpurified dope, and heroin #4 was if during the production process whoever the people involved were took the time and had the skill to refine it into pure dope, which should then be white as opposed to brown. SWIM has never seen anything other than water soluble dope. Actually, stuff that is beige has always been ok... but fucking brown dope, SWIM would rather go without. In SWIM's locality people typically don't want anything to do with the brown stuff... but the white/very light beige normally knocks my friend SWIM for a loop.

Where are you from?! Cause here in Baltimore it is the complete opposite the HIGH MAJORITY of the time it is the darker the better. The lighter it is the more it has been stepped on. Scramble is white/tan and the raw is brown-dark dark brown

[Bluemagician]

I've heard that afghani #3 heroin is slowly making it's way to the USA (I've heard of some siesures in the Illinois area actually). It's as snortable as #4 (hcl, usual US powder), but I've heard many pefer to smoke it.. There are many instructions on how to smoke heroin (even videos on Youtube). If snorting does not seem to work, try smoking it.. If that doesn't work, I'd look into the possibility that you might of been sold bunk dope. Smoking is more popular then snorting when it comes to the afghani heroin, so try that before demanding a refund.. When smoked, the effects should come on just about instantly. The acidic levels in our nasal cavaties raise the ph enough for it to be absorbed.. or so I've heard. Good luck, and be safe.

PS- I've heard that afghani dope is normally more pure (at least in some european countries) then average dope in the US, but then again, it could of been cut quite a bit since it landed in your hands.. Any how, when smoking, start small, and keep smoking until you feel it.. Should definately kick in much quicker then insulfating..

[chopstix]

When smoked, the effects should come on just about instantly. The acidic levels in our nasal cavaties raise the ph enough for it to be absorbed.. or so I've heard. Good luck, and be safe.


You mean drop the PH :)

This came up recently, you can't really effectively snort base heroin just like you can't snort crack, you'll get some of it, but not much, and most will go into your gut and be basically metabolized as oral morphine.

Smoke it or shoot it, you'd need an acid to make it water soluble and snort-able.

The reverse is true too, you need a buffer when smoking the salt form (water soluble and what we're used to in the states) to keep the dope vaporising and not burning up. The reason you can both smoke and shoot tar is because the adulterants (sugar) serve as the medium to keep the dope from burning and allowing it to vaporise and be inhaled..

[Bluemagician]

You mean drop the PH :)

This came up recently, you can't really effectively snort base heroin just like you can't snort crack, you'll get some of it, but not much, and most will go into your gut and be basically metabolized as oral morphine.

Smoke it or shoot it, you'd need an acid to make it water soluble and snort-able.

The reverse is true too, you need a buffer when smoking the salt form (water soluble and what we're used to in the states) to keep the dope vaporising and not burning up. The reason you can both smoke and shoot tar is because the adulterants (sugar) serve as the medium to keep the dope from burning and allowing it to vaporise and be inhaled..

Hehe.. I'll be the first one to admit that I really don't know much about chemistry, I just remember reading something about being able to snorti heroin #3 because of the acidicy of your nose (rachmin said it I believe). I knew there was some reason that europeans prefered to smoke their dope rather then snort it.. Now I know the factual reason! Ya learn something new everyday. Thanks Chopstix.

[Opiyum]

As far as color goes I'm sure it isn't a reliable indicator of quality. I've found white dope that is stronger than brown dope and visa versa. It turns brown during the process of making it sometimes due some technical shit that I couldn't begin to explain but anyway someone with a basic knowledge of chemistry probably can explain.
All I know for certain from experience is that color doesn't mean shit. Like I said I've had it look like sugar and be great and I've had it look like brown sugar and be great.
A better indicator of quality is normally the smell. A pungent smell that penetrates the bag and can be smelled from a short distance can mean you have a good product unlike something you can't smell at all. Those damn dogs can still find it though. You better believe that.

[chopstix]

Umm.. "Pungent" - I'm not sure that's the right word, pungent makes me think of AA and all that means is that it's probably dope, but indicative of incomplete processing...

Best dope I've ever had was pure white, chunky, odorless and almost got me a shot of Narcan.. Straight from Thailand..

edit: Reading that you're from PA, pungent to you is probably very different than pungent to me - pungent to me is like sticking your nose in a bottle of white vinegar..

[Duckfeet]

The heroin in Vietnam, when I was there, had--if I remember right--#5 on the plastic vials--and mostly g.i.'s smoked it, usually in cigarettes after we had taken out some of the tobacco, then twisted the ends, calling them, duh, 'twisters'...it was also snortable...and injectable, using just a matchead from the vial in a spoon, and broke right down...pure heroin, by all acounts...Rach knows more about the chemistry, I believe, than I ever did...but I know I never again saw heroin like that:evenly white, slighly course...and way too good...I never knew where it came from...Burma, I figured...yeah, I saw 'American Gangster' but that was a movie..., who knows...but the hardcase dopeshooting junkies, who actually re-enlisted, usually from NYC, just to get next to this excellent dope, told me that I would never again see heroin this pure...and since I figured I was quitting once I got out of Vietnam, I didn't care much anyway...but I didn't quit, obviously, and I agree that I never saw anything like it again...nothing I saw was ever near that pure, and 'tar' is a joke compared to it...

[Opiyum]

Umm.. "Pungent" - I'm not sure that's the right word, pungent makes me think of AA and all that means is that it's probably dope, but indicative of incomplete processing...

Best dope I've ever had was pure white, chunky, odorless and almost got me a shot of Narcan.. Straight from Thailand..

edit: Reading that you're from PA, pungent to you is probably very different than pungent to me - pungent to me is like sticking your nose in a bottle of white vinegar..

No pungent is what I mean. The taste and therefore the smell in most cases could only be described as a pungent smell. A lot of people even say that the dope around here smells like vinegar.
I wasn't saying that smell is a certain indicator by any means. I was just saying it has been in my experience with the dope I get. When it comes to drugs like heroin getting produced in so many different ways in so many different parts of the world there are no certainties.

[chopstix]

When it comes to drugs like heroin getting produced in so many different ways in so many different parts of the world there are no certainties.

There is one certainty, and that is %90+ SEA #4 - I've only seen it once, but I know what Duck and Rach are talking about.. :)

[Raz]

Colour doesnt have nish to do wiv quality...

[poonwhalla]

I agree color has nothing to do with it. Its all about quality and if you are smart you will find out where the good shit is at. With west coast tar I have had shit that is blacker then your eyes closed in a room with the lights off at 2 am that sucked and some powder on the east coast that was lighter then the coke I could cop that would have me floored. But as far as the op asked I think we get the 4 and with the tar its a mix of 3 and 4 grade. I say that because before I Ived i was a sniffer and smoker but the tar stopped working after a while and the powder put me right where I wanted to be. However if I tried to smoke the powder I think I would be dissapointed since it was already in the hcl form.

[chopstix]

I think Ima maintain that the best dope on the planet is bone white and the colors are mere impurities - I think the asians use activated charcoal to pull the last of the last, but I'm not a dope chemist and I'm also drunk, so wtf do I know aside from bullshitting...

[poonwhalla]

ain't no bullshit chop you said it right!! That is if you ask me.

[Raz]

Itsa connundrum fo sho...I seen some thia white, that you'd swear was hydrochloride, but naw dis shit run like jesse owens on ze jimmy (foil).....It was runnin clear just like charlie, but it was skag fru an fru and was some strong shit.....

If its brown pappy and can be smoked, then you will be able to sniff it no probs....And a little vit c powder(theres a few vids on u tube on how much vit c to use).....

Does it run like the pic in my ol espana stylie thread?.....Or does it bubble an leave a charcoal residue?

[Duckfeet]

Raz: I know Spain is one of the latest entries into the heroin-maintenance for addicts deal, and I've read of a couple of places that have it...I'm not *even* suggesting this for you, haha, just was curious if you had heard about it, and what you thought of it, whether it was hard to get on, etc...

You can tell where my minds going this fucked up xmas...but i'm still off opies, and actually pretty grateful the the tar around here is such garbage...no wonder the mexicans are killing each other right and left just 30 miles south of my house...I'd be killing'em too, for making that crap...good riddance, bitches...

But *anyway*, just curious...I'd read a little about it, and I had a hunch, just from past experience and economics and shit, that if *Spain* started this, it might actually be an easier country for a foreigner to "sign up" as u know how it is over there...maybe this has changed...not a lot of info on Spain, in this area...seems much more on England, Germany and other euoropean countries...

Merry Christmas my friend...


Itsa connundrum fo sho...I seen some thia white, that you'd swear was hydrochloride, but naw dis shit run like jesse owens on ze jimmy (foil).....It was runnin clear just like charlie, but it was skag fru an fru and was some strong shit.....

If its brown pappy and can be smoked, then you will be able to sniff it no probs....And a little vit c powder(theres a few vids on u tube on how much vit c to use).....

Does it run like the pic in my ol espana stylie thread?.....Or does it bubble an leave a charcoal residue?

[Raz]

Come monday i'll find out wat i can....But i wont give you the info (if any)until you ask for it...And you think about it....

To tell you the truth bro, out here you could get what you wanted from a private Dr...As long as you paid for the consultation and the pharmacia, you'd be cool...

If thats what you really want....I got a Dr that will give ya wat ya need for pain/addiction...

[Indy]

Doesn't NECESSARILY have anything to do with color, but if you know the dope in your area, and there are a few different kinds, you could use color to distinguish from the different kinds of dope in your area i would guess.

[Duckfeet]

Well I'm not going anywhere until I pay of some debts, a few thousand dollars I managed to owe, thanks to last run...but I've paid off about half of it...

But I was just curious: I know last year sometime I had read that spain began an actual heroin-maintenance program...probably clinic run, is what I remember, in a couple cities which I didn't recognize...I'll do a search and get back and ask...no worries, I'm not dropping everything to chase that: last time I did that I had quite a bit of money left...now I'm trying to scrounge that back up before I travel...if I just wanted heroin, I'd probably go to Colombia, which is closer, and I know my way around Latin America, generally...

Just was wondered if that program had gone anywhere, and if, like Switzerland, they had noticed drop in crime, etc...

Best wishes my friend...this is just a good day to get thru, for me, tomorrow will be here soon enough/


Come monday i'll find out wat i can....But i wont give you the info (if any)until you ask for it...And you think about it....

To tell you the truth bro, out here you could get what you wanted from a private Dr...As long as you paid for the consultation and the pharmacia, you'd be cool...

If thats what you really want....I got a Dr that will give ya wat ya need for pain/addiction...

[rachamim18]

The numbering system was devised by the US DEA in the very early 1970s, in the DEA's first few baby steps and represents their ignorance.

The system is as follows:

Heroin #1: Morphine Freebase or Morphine HCL

Heroin #2: Heroin Acetate or Heroin Freebase

Heroin #3: #4 heroin but specifically altered at the POM (Point of Manufacture) to make it conducive for smoking. The technical definition is a 60:40 mix, with 60 representing heroin hcl. and 40 representing caffeine hcl.

Heroin #4: Heroin hcl made specifically for injection.

A couple of forms are not represented.

"Tar," made, as I said a week or so ago by using a different acetylating agent (other than Acetic Anhydride), heated much longer, and not heated in a reflux apparatus. The lack of reflux is what is responsible for its "tar" life form, and the acetylating agent and time are what is responsible for the ration of MAMs (MAM 3 and MAM 6 are usually only seen as by products of hydrolysation. As heroin degrades it turns first into MAMs and then into morphine although it is always a mixed ratio unless very old and decomposed.

"Homebaked" is made from either Rx morphine tabs or more often from OTC codeine preps that have had a CWE, and then subjected to O-Demetylation into morphine, . Eother way, when they have morphine they then acetylate usually using AA but any acetylating agent will work. Like "Tar," it is not heated in relux so it is a "tar" like consistency but the composition is much different than "Tar," in that it has very little MAM. When they used to use Diconal as the precuros it would be a pink or red tar, but more often black just like Mexican "Tar."

Both "Tar" and "Homebaked" are forms specifically made for injection so they meet the technical definition of Heroin #4, but because they were only disocvered AFTER the system was created, they really fall outside of it.

"Tar" is a form only made in parts of Mexico and only seen in Mexico and parts of the US, while "Homebaked" while very rare today is only found in NZ and Australia.


I will post this and then post the answer in a following post, things are a hectic now.

[rachamim18]

So how do you know what form you have? #2 is almost always freebase although it includes both freebase and aAcetate in the tech. definition. When you acetylate, you end up with Acetate, and it is a salt with very poor pH attributes so it is NEVER sold as is. All producers then convert the Acetate into freebase by suing simple sodium bicarb (most of the time). if sold at this stage it is #2. #2 is the form most often exported from SW Asia, meaning Paki/Afghan product , basically the only thing in Europe now and the UK of course is in Europe .

If they are exporting there in the US and from time to time a tiny bit gets in, it will be a finer product, almost always, meaning #4. they generally make both while 4 is much more expensive and hence it is not often going to Europe.

Why is #1 morphine some bright person MIFGT ask. Well, that is because when this sytem was devised morphine was an illicit commodity itself. Almost all SE producers were making #4 from already illicitly manufactured morphine. Today, only one group still makes it, "999 Brand," with 3 9s pressed into the block, always a very white brick. Made by the Wa Tribe in Mynammar/Burma it is sold only to one area in the world today, the Thai/Malaysian jungle straddling the border, to Muslim producers who are too lazy, etc to do the process themselves.

For all intensive purposes #1 is dead.

Those same Muslim producers are the only people alive today making #3, and only KL (Kuala Lampur) and one other Malaysian city has any #3.

#3 usually has aside from almost50% caffeine, strychine and quinine (both for flavour), and barbitone (for potentiation). In days past you would also see dyes like "Red Rooster" brand in HK, or "Grey Pearl" in Kowloon, and Macau, etc. Today, just white pieces about as big as a piece of uncooked white rice, looks just like rice in fact.

Today, #4 in the Us is almost always Colombian white to brown poweder, usually darker coloured because Colombians are sloppy cooks. By and by they are terrible but at least they make #4, right? Still, they adulterate it even before selling it down the first step of the ladder and that just shows their pure and utter contempt for their product. It would be one thing if they were whacking it with lactose, etc. but they pout all kinds of weird things in it and if I could ever help it I would never touch that crap without recooking it.


The best today? SE Asians and their #4. Even there it is a dying art, sad to say. Everyone wants that profit. Do you know what the Double O stamp says in Chinese? In Cantonese it means "Best Untouched Brand" and used to mean you had the best thing going. Now everyone is using whatever they want but wait, I sound like the old man I am becoming.

Anyway, the OP wishes to know what he/she has in Chicago. Chicago is the one area in the US where they have ALL forms. To see if you have #2, take 1/4th od a dose, put it in a cooker, add 2 to 4 CC water, stir. Observe it, is it cloudy? Heat it. If you have #2 it will not cook it will just begin to gel like a "blob" in the cooker. It needs an acidic catalyst, citric works wonders. If you want to see how good it is, put the same amount on a piece of foil, heat under neat the foil, not directly but apply the flame about an inch under the foil. Watch it cook. Does it run? Let it harden if so. If it runs it is #2, and when it hardens take a good look. the clearer it is the better your product. The darker the worse, ie.e less pure the product really is.

With #4, do the cooker test again and observe it. Good #4 needs only half the water of any form and NO heat at all. You drop it in the body of the syringe, etc. already filled with water, and do not even need to shake it as the solubility is excellent.

If you want to do a bit more accurate assay do a MP test, etc. These are just to find which form you have.

Finally, #2 should always be fine for insufflating as long as it is very fine consistency. Make sure it is finely pwodered. Your nasal mucous will adjust the pH naturally. You only need the acid for injection. It also smokes perfectly without caffeine so that it is another benefit.

Duck: Those #5 viials are standard in Bangkok ever since those days. I was getting them for , last time, about 45 US in Baht, with 1.2 grams per vial #4 no adulteration. Great stuff. Red Top is better though!

[rachamim18]

"Colour of Heroin"

The analogy I like to use is the following...

If I had a 6 pack of beer and then urinated into a bottle it would be clear as the best water iin the world. If I took the best water in the world anf filled a 2nd bottle with it, and then dropped in 2 drops of yellow food colouring and then left on a table for thirst workers which bottle would they choose? They would choose Bottle #1, the "beer bottle."

Think about it, that is what "colour" means. It means nothing.

"Why do people prefer brown or darker coloured heroin?": They did not until the mid 90s and only then in some places. The reason THEN was because they ignorantly believed/believe that because the purer product was brown (i.e. dark) it could not be effectively adulterated without making it much lighter. I.E. anything "Dark" meant that it was closer to the source.

However, all one has to do is put lactose in a stove for a good 45 to 120 seconds on the lowest setting to have it turn brown and stay powder. Take it out, regrind, mix, and voila, VERY dark powdered product even with the whitest heroin. It is a fool's game. Edcuate yourselves.

As we talked about in the "East Coast Stamp" thread in "Scene" forum, heroin and morphine are naturally chocolate brown and are lightened through a simple chemical process. The problem though is that Colombians rarely if ever care to take the 2 hours needed to make it white as driven snow. All it is is Activated Carbon (i.e. charcoal).

[bodymore]

.
As we talked about in the "East Coast Stamp" thread in "Scene" forum, heroin and morphine are naturally chocolate brown and are lightened through a simple chemical process. The problem though is that Colombians rarely if ever care to take the 2 hours needed to make it white as driven snow. All it is is Activated Carbon (i.e. charcoal).

Thank you

[InfectedMushroom]

Heh nice Bodymore...

[Opiyum]

"<SNIP>

As we talked about in the "East Coast Stamp" thread in "Scene" forum, heroin and morphine are naturally chocolate brown and are lightened through a simple chemical process. The problem though is that Colombians rarely if ever care to take the 2 hours needed to make it white as driven snow. All it is is Activated Carbon (i.e. charcoal).

Thank you

Al that I've ever read...including the post you are talking about in the east coast stamp thread mention that Morphine in its most basic form is a white to yellow color. It is in the process of making heroin that contamanents and other such things can turn it brown to deffierent degrees.
I've never worked with any columbians so I can't say anything to their work ethic but the point still remains no matter how you slice it. Color doesn't mean a thing.

[bodymore]

Al that I've ever read...including the post you are talking about in the east coast stamp thread mention that Morphine in its most basic form is a white to yellow color. It is in the process of making heroin that contamanents and other such things can turn it brown to deffierent degrees.
I've never worked with any columbians so I can't say anything to their work ethic but the point still remains no matter how you slice it. Color doesn't mean a thing.

All I can say is here in Baltimore the HIGH majority of the time the lighter the dope is the weaker it is. You never see dark brown scramble on the street. It is always tanish-white some times you can see the brown in it. You believe what you want to believe. I know what I know

[rachamim18]

Opiyum: If you reread the East Coast Stamp thread carefully, or maybe a bit more slowly you will see where I have debunked that misconception. Morphine, when you first extract it is choclate brown. Looks like cocoa pwder. It is usually whitened in the heroin stage, except by the afore mentioned Wa tribesmen who sell it as an illicit commodity to other producers, they take the time and effort to decolourise (I know, I know, black is an absence of colour while white is a combo of all colours but I am talking in real life terms not science per se) their morphine.

Morphine is the , in my mind, the simplest chemical process in the world. It is a very dark though, naturally. It does not 'pick up contaminants" unless you leave it lying around in a dirty place or apply those contaminants yourself.

As for "Colombians' work ethic," you do not ever have to meet a single one. Just look at their crap. Study data on seizure reports to find out what they are putting in right at POM. It is not a heavy consideration. People that take pride in what they do do it right. It takes all of 2 hours to make it as white as anyone would ever want it. They cannot be bothered to do that in almost most cases despite the fact that it commands much more money in most of the US (brown is only thought better in a very few places where they have been inundated with Colombian, like Florida, Gergia, etc). As i said though, it is oh so simple to carmelise your lactose and make snowwhite heroin into cocoa brown , and it is also just a spossible to whiten your chocolate brown.

In purely chemical terms, absolutely pure would be purely white. The brown colorung in raw (in this case "raw" does not mean the slang defintion of "raw" but rather POM heroin) is related to impurities reulsting from the extraction. You gain 8 to 12 perntage points in purity if you whiten your product.

However, as I said earlier, people in areas where Colombian has flooded the market believe brown to be purper because of their ignorance in believing it is next to impossible to adulterate it and keep it dark. They see whiter product and they believe it has been adulterated but in reality that is very counter-intuitive.

[chopstix]

Color doesn't mean a thing.

Would you buy purple heroin? Just curious..

[rachamim18]

Hahahah. He means that colour does not relate to purity. You know though, they have had red and pink heroin so I might...

[Opiyum]

Would you buy purple heroin? Just curious..

A friend of mine got bags that were green one time. Of course it wasn't dope and he got ripped off but what you said made me think of that.

[Papa Verine]

Thanks rach... I had number 2. It was stolen from me by some murderous thugs but that's what I had.

Thanks!

[bodymore]

Why is #1 morphine some bright person MIFGT ask. Well, that is because when this sytem was devised morphine was an illicit commodity itself. Almost all SE producers were making #4 from already illicitly manufactured morphine. Today, only one group still makes it, "999 Brand," with 3 9s pressed into the block, always a very white brick. Made by the Wa Tribe in Mynammar/Burma it is sold only to one area in the world today, the Thai/Malaysian jungle straddling the border, to Muslim producers who are too lazy, etc to do the process themselves.

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/morphine/images/morphine_summary1.jpg

That does not look white to me

[chopstix]

If it's just processed O (the bricks), I don't understand why it would be white - why would they take the time to run it through AC when it's gonna be done again down the line in the H production?

Bodymore: Seriously, I'm sure the dope you have in Baltimore is good, we all know it's reputation, but it's fucking nothing like pure SEA #4 - If you went to thailand and tried to do half of what ever your dose is here, it would probably end you.

The one time I had pure SEA (bone white, kinda chunky, disappeared in water like good C w/out heat), I probably did half a tenth, I'm not small, have a seemingly built in tolerance for opis, and was strung out at the time. *EVERYONE* in the room said "BE FUCKING CAREFUL WITH THAT SHIT!", and so I was.

I wasn't seeing double, I was seeing quadruple. This girl kept asking me if I was ok, over and over and over, un-controllable nodding for hours when I finally attempted to drive, I didn't make it far before I just pulled over and nodded in my truck for several hours; I was right on the edge, and I shit you not, I did the shot at like 8pm and was still itchy in the late AM when I woke up and did the cotton, which was like shooting a good 20 at the time.

Darkness is impurity, just like Rach said..

[Woody Bear]

Bodymore, in that picture of the 999 brick check out the corners. The corners are white, but the surface of the brick is pretty brown. The brown colouring, is just staining on the outside of the brick from either the pressing plates, or from the wrapping matterials they used when they pressed it. The corners are white, because where the outer surface of the brick has been worn away, you can see the colour inside the brick, and it looks pretty white to me.

[rachamim18]

Papa: It is OK.

Bodymore: "Photo.": That is not Heroin #1, i.e. morphine. That is SW Asian #4 from the village of Azad in Afghanistan and is a very popular brand for both #2 and #4.It is white by the way, not brown as in the picture. If I had to guess, I would say the brown was a wrapping or some kind of contamination from storage. SW 999 is famous as being one of the rare Afgan brands that is always more than 95% pure, which you cannot get unless you decolourise heroin.

The other piece, "Flying Kobra," I have never heard of but probably from the same (Golden Crescent) if in the same photo, at least that would be my wild guess. In fact I it is almost certainly the case since it is efinitely not SE Asian, and Colmbians do not put imprints in heroin , as they do with cocaine.

Heroin #1 is made just like #4 now, in either 350 or 700 gram packages. The 700 gram packages come in bricks, the 350s in wheels that look alot like cheese. In days gone by, 999 Brand #1 was packaged as a 3 lb brick (1.6 kilo), what they call a "viss," but nowadays even opium is being packaged as kilograms so the entire market has changed.

[Papa Verine]

[quote=rachamim18;329337]Papa: It is OK.quote]

Yeah, it is OK but I'm out $400 worth of dope that wasn't even mine to begin with. I was hooking it up for a friend and the small portion I got for myself out of the deal I did crash finely into powder and snort. Strangely, it made me more sedated then what I'm used to. I was falling asleep standing up which makes people wonder if your "OK".

Ha!

I have had many different kinds... many different sources. I'm sure I've seen them all at one time or another. But the poeple I deal with are greedy. And they're in it for thier own profits. So all I've ever had was a portion of the pure stuff. I have no illusions of that... I did once had a connect for a dark brown powder that was cut but not cut well at all. I could seperate the dark powder from the rest. That stuff was very potent. I don't know what it was or where it came from... but when I stuck in in my veins I got the closest to heaven I've ever been. Too bad... connections are always coming and going... That guy was a strange one... had me meet him in the freezer section or a Mexican grocery store. Hey... whatever. I wore my hat.

[bodymore]

Papa: It is OK.

Bodymore: "Photo.": That is not Heroin #1, i.e. morphine. That is SW Asian #4 from the village of Azad in Afghanistan and is a very popular brand for both #2 and #4.It is white by the way, not brown as in the picture. If I had to guess, I would say the brown was a wrapping or some kind of contamination from storage. SW 999 is famous as being one of the rare Afgan brands that is always more than 95% pure, which you cannot get unless you decolourise heroin.

The other piece, "Flying Kobra," I have never heard of but probably from the same (Golden Crescent) if in the same photo, at least that would be my wild guess. In fact I it is almost certainly the case since it is efinitely not SE Asian, and Colmbians do not put imprints in heroin , as they do with cocaine.

Heroin #1 is made just like #4 now, in either 350 or 700 gram packages. The 700 gram packages come in bricks, the 350s in wheels that look alot like cheese. In days gone by, 999 Brand #1 was packaged as a 3 lb brick (1.6 kilo), what they call a "viss," but nowadays even opium is being packaged as kilograms so the entire market has changed.

Well acording to Erwoid that is Morphine not Heroin. In your previous post you said #1 has "999" stamped on it. So which one has 999 on it #4 or #1? I think its brown in the pic cause that is the color it naturaly is before someone fucks with it. But I can not lie the suposedly Morphine base we get here in Baltimore is a white and crystaly and not brown.




[quote=rachamim18;329337]Papa: It is OK.quote]

Yeah, it is OK but I'm out $400 worth of dope that wasn't even mine to begin with. I was hooking it up for a friend and the small portion I got for myself out of the deal I did crash finely into powder and snort. Strangely, it made me more sedated then what I'm used to. I was falling asleep standing up which makes people wonder if your "OK".

Ha!

I have had many different kinds... many different sources. I'm sure I've seen them all at one time or another. But the poeple I deal with are greedy. And they're in it for thier own profits. So all I've ever had was a portion of the pure stuff. I have no illusions of that... I did once had a connect for a dark brown powder that was cut but not cut well at all. I could seperate the dark powder from the rest. That stuff was very potent. I don't know what it was or where it came from... but when I stuck in in my veins I got the closest to heaven I've ever been. Too bad... connections are always coming and going... That guy was a strange one... had me meet him in the freezer section or a Mexican grocery store. Hey... whatever. I wore my hat.

He was doing that cause he was a smart man! I rather meet him in the freezer then on the block.

[bodymore]

Papa: It is OK.

Bodymore: "Photo.": That is not Heroin #1, i.e. morphine. That is SW Asian #4 from the village of Azad in Afghanistan and is a very popular brand for both #2 and #4.It is white by the way, not brown as in the picture. If I had to guess, I would say the brown was a wrapping or some kind of contamination from storage. SW 999 is famous as being one of the rare Afgan brands that is always more than 95% pure, which you cannot get unless you decolourise heroin.

The other piece, "Flying Kobra," I have never heard of but probably from the same (Golden Crescent) if in the same photo, at least that would be my wild guess. In fact I it is almost certainly the case since it is efinitely not SE Asian, and Colmbians do not put imprints in heroin , as they do with cocaine.

Heroin #1 is made just like #4 now, in either 350 or 700 gram packages. The 700 gram packages come in bricks, the 350s in wheels that look alot like cheese. In days gone by, 999 Brand #1 was packaged as a 3 lb brick (1.6 kilo), what they call a "viss," but nowadays even opium is being packaged as kilograms so the entire market has changed.

[quote=rachamim18;329337]Papa: It is OK.quote]

Yeah, it is OK but I'm out $400 worth of dope that wasn't even mine to begin with. I was hooking it up for a friend and the small portion I got for myself out of the deal I did crash finely into powder and snort. Strangely, it made me more sedated then what I'm used to. I was falling asleep standing up which makes people wonder if your "OK".

Ha!

I have had many different kinds... many different sources. I'm sure I've seen them all at one time or another. But the poeple I deal with are greedy. And they're in it for thier own profits. So all I've ever had was a portion of the pure stuff. I have no illusions of that... I did once had a connect for a dark brown powder that was cut but not cut well at all. I could seperate the dark powder from the rest. That stuff was very potent. I don't know what it was or where it came from... but when I stuck in in my veins I got the closest to heaven I've ever been. Too bad... connections are always coming and going... That guy was a strange one... had me meet him in the freezer section or a Mexican grocery store. Hey... whatever. I wore my hat.

Bodymore, in that picture of the 999 brick check out the corners. The corners are white, but the surface of the brick is pretty brown. The brown colouring, is just staining on the outside of the brick from either the pressing plates, or from the wrapping matterials they used when they pressed it. The corners are white, because where the outer surface of the brick has been worn away, you can see the colour inside the brick, and it looks pretty white to me.

Dont you get brown dope?

[rachamim18]

Papa: Well you could always purify your own if you wanted to really bother but you are probablly better off just doing as you are.

On the poorly mixed heroin/adulterant...When I was in Tampa in the mid 90s there were only a few people selling grams and above. One source was these 2 brothers, "Latin Kings" like alot of the people were, transpplants from Conneticut. I do not know if the Hartford Chapter had a meeting and decided to move en masse but it sure seemed that way. Anyway, one day I am doing a favour for a freind of mine, before I got back into the swing so to speak. I go to the guys house, we talk in Spanish, he brings me out a nice piece, real nice but then he says, hold on a second. Most Colombiasn is chocolate brown to tan, but at that point virtually all of it was choclate brown. When he comes back in the room I am looking at chocolate specs in a sea of white. I was buying for another person but it just pissed me off oan a very basic level.

I told him that he must be crazy. Go get the real stuff, I will pay the price, "Nooooo" he said which is actually smart business because an OD down there can get you Natural Life, but I just could not give him money for garbage so rather than buy it I let the "friend" stay sick and left it alone. If he was smart he would have browned the "cut" but most people are not smart.

[rachamim18]

Bodymore: Let me be explicit so ther is no misunderstanding. If you talk to folks from the NE they will tell you that you can find the same stamp 10 different ways. SW Asia and SE Asia are a world apart geographically, culturally, and in terms of drugs. the "999" is a silver stamp used to denote pure silver for trade. IT is not a SE Asian OIR SW Asian culturism. In other words, it is like a man in Brasil and a man in Compton naming their d ime bags of cok "Hot Stuff." Not a real big mystery.

SW "999" is always heroin. SE "999" morphine." SE Asian is all but extinct (still a bit but not much), while the SW is better than ever. It is a famous Afghan rand. If you ever go, or know someone who goes to Pakistan there is a bazaar in NW, right over the NW line from Peshawar. In that bazaar it is like a heroin supermarket (and guns and arms). They offer samples, etc. You can buy several different grades, even arrange to have ti smuggled to your destination of choice. "999" is a world famous brand and is probablly one of the biggest sellers in Peshawar.

Erowid is a site like any other. Noone running it has probablly ever been to either region and is pulling pictures off the internet, etc. They learn, somehow, that "999" is an old brand of morphine, and so when they see a picture of a block of "999" they of course make the natural assumption.

"999" morphine is snow white, that is why they are able to even sell it as a commodity - because it shortens the synthesis of heroin considerably, and as a commodity it allows the manufactuer to turn a profit greater than with the expense of smuggled opium (the Thai/Malay Border is a dodgy place, everyone going through gets heavily searched, etc).

[laudaphun]

Bodymore: Let me be explicit so ther is no misunderstanding. If you talk to folks from the NE they will tell you that you can find the same stamp 10 different ways. SW Asia and SE Asia are a world apart geographically, culturally, and in terms of drugs. the "999" is a silver stamp used to denote pure silver for trade. IT is not a SE Asian OIR SW Asian culturism. In other words, it is like a man in Brasil and a man in Compton naming their d ime bags of cok "Hot Stuff." Not a real big mystery.

SW "999" is always heroin. SE "999" morphine." SE Asian is all but extinct (still a bit but not much), while the SW is better than ever. It is a famous Afghan rand. If you ever go, or know someone who goes to Pakistan there is a bazaar in NW, right over the NW line from Peshawar. In that bazaar it is like a heroin supermarket (and guns and arms). They offer samples, etc. You can buy several different grades, even arrange to have ti smuggled to your destination of choice. "999" is a world famous brand and is probablly one of the biggest sellers in Peshawar.

Erowid is a site like any other. Noone running it has probablly ever been to either region and is pulling pictures off the internet, etc. They learn, somehow, that "999" is an old brand of morphine, and so when they see a picture of a block of "999" they of course make the natural assumption.

"999" morphine is snow white, that is why they are able to even sell it as a commodity - because it shortens the synthesis of heroin considerably, and as a commodity it allows the manufactuer to turn a profit greater than with the expense of smuggled opium (the Thai/Malay Border is a dodgy place, everyone going through gets heavily searched, etc).

This response is not specifically to yours but all the last 4 pages of responses. The color of heroin often is significantly influenced by the material used to cut it with. The stamp on stamp bags usually has nothing to do with heroin #3, #4... actually I've never heard of anything other than #3 and #4. I've always just assumed that since it was usually a "3-step process" to convert morphine to heroin, that the intial conversion yielded crude diacetylmorphine, and then it underwent an additional step to make it useable.... This I'm not sure about 100% as it's been a few years since I have reviewed any literature on the manufacure of heroin. Just guessing, and since they would want to smuggle it into countries and have it reduced to the least amount of bulk possible they have it purified to the highest quality possible. However even if it were purified to something like 95% containing a few contaminents such as acetylcodeine (which is far more toxic) it would retain a light beige color (I'm assuming anyways).

From reading all I understand is that the difference between heroin #3 and heroin #4 is that heroin #4 undergoes an additional step of which the sole purpose is to purify it. Someone had mentioned earlier about having to use a lot chemistry to explain this however it is actually not that difficult and if anyone were actually interested and couldn't find their answer via the search engine or google then I can dig up the info and explain in detail the difference from a chemists standpoint.

Heroin number #3 and Heroin #4 are terms used in the manufacture of heroin from opiate. Pure heroin is white. Just look up a few articles on it which should be easily found via web search. Heroin #4 is just a technical name for heroin that has been refined and is likely white in color, or perhaps a very light beige. That said, heroin is a very powerful drug in it's pure form and typically you don't come across pure heroin. If you do, it's likely mixxed in with cut because it would be rather dangerous to sell on the street.

I also believe these terms to be "older" but am not sure about that. I just figure that in modern day and age, most heroin would leave the middle east or were from as heroin #4 as technology is way different than back in the 70's or whenever these ters were commmonplace

[Woody Bear]

Sorry laudaphun, but I have to disagree with a lot of what you've written. rachamim18, has already explained the heroin numbering system earlier.

The heroin numbering system doesn't describe all types of heroin, only the types produced in South East Asia.

Heroin #3 is 50% heroin hydrochloride and 50% additives, mostly caffeine, this helps it to melt and run so it vaporised better. This is heroin made for smoking, and it was only produced and used in South East Asian countries. Heroin #3 doesn't make it to America or Europe.
Heroin #4 is as close to pharmaceutical heroin hydrochloride as you get on the black market.

The Afghan brown heroin most common in Europe is heroin freebase thats made from morphine which hasn't been purified with activated charcoal, as this process removed the coloured impurites which changes it from tan to pure white. Afghan brown is made for smoking, as you'd need to add acid to get it to dissolve in water. Even though it is made for smoking, it is not heroin #3 because it is not heroin hydrochloride, and it doesn't have the caffeine and other additives that heroin #3 does.

If you've been up to Vancover, then perhaps you've had a chance to try heroin #4 that's been imported from South East Asia, but otherwise you're not likely to have tried any of the SEA numbered heroin.

The Columbian heroin hydrochloride that's sold on the East Coast is the closest thing to SEA heroin #4, but it's not purified to the same level.

The West Coast black tar heroin is closer to the Afghan brown, but BTH is a salt, and Afghan brown is the freebase. Neither one are heroin #3 or heroin #4. Although you would use Afghan brown the same way as you'd use heroin #3 (by smoking) and you'd use BTH the same way as you'd use heroin #4 (by dissolving in water first).

[rachamim18]

Laud: It is a 2 step process, not 3. You have morphine, you acetylate it, you have heroin, all in one step: Acetylysation. If you want GOOD heroin that is different.

I have already explained colour to death.

There IS no difference in manufacturing betwen #3 and #4. They are one and the same. The difference is that once completed, 3 is admixed with potenitators, adulterants, and dilutents, and SOMETIMES dyes.

They are both #4. #3 is a technical definition for an admixture of #4, any #4 with an admixture ff at least 40% caffeine hcl is techically #3.

You believe that acetylysation is easy? It is. Explain it though.

"Pure heroin is white." We can read Merck as well. If you make it though it will NVEVER be white unless you make it white yourself. You have to run it through carbon, but then this has been talked about to death.

No offence but you need to start at the begnning. The ONLY definition for #4 is a heroin sepcifically prepared for injection and this includes Tar, which is an acetate and of course BLACK, as well as Homebaked which can be any colour under the sun although usually black or pink.

As for coming across pure heroin, buy a plane ticket and you can but it for 20 US a gram. Not as rare as you imagine, but probably easier to catch a unicorn then find it in the US.

As for the last part, most Middle Eastern heroin is #2.

[rachamim18]

Woody: Right about most except that colmbian is considered to be #4, as is so called Mesican Mud, the Chco Fine of the 70s and 80s, brown power from Durango, #4 also. Tar by virtue of being prepares specifically for injection, which is what #4's tech. definition also becomes #4 but...the terms were old (early 70s) and the DEA was not thinking straight when they devised the system so...Maybe it is all academic although interesting to discuss.

Just to split hairs, to inject #2 you need an acidic catalyst to convert the pH, but yeah, add water so yep you have it right.

[laudaphun]

Laud: It is a 2 step process, not 3. You have morphine, you acetylate it, you have heroin, all in one step: Acetylysation. If you want GOOD heroin that is different.

I have already explained colour to death.

There IS no difference in manufacturing betwen #3 and #4. They are one and the same. The difference is that once completed, 3 is admixed with potenitators, adulterants, and dilutents, and SOMETIMES dyes.

They are both #4. #3 is a technical definition for an admixture of #4, any #4 with an admixture ff at least 40% caffeine hcl is techically #3.

You believe that acetylysation is easy? It is. Explain it though.

"Pure heroin is white." We can read Merck as well. If you make it though it will NVEVER be white unless you make it white yourself. You have to run it through carbon, but then this has been talked about to death.

No offence but you need to start at the begnning. The ONLY definition for #4 is a heroin sepcifically prepared for injection and this includes Tar, which is an acetate and of course BLACK, as well as Homebaked which can be any colour under the sun although usually black or pink.

As for coming across pure heroin, buy a plane ticket and you can but it for 20 US a gram. Not as rare as you imagine, but probably easier to catch a unicorn then find it in the US.

As for the last part, most Middle Eastern heroin is #2.

I was under the impression that all heroin, at least in this area was prepared for injection. Any of it can be insufflated. Keep in mind that this is merely an observation of the dope my friend has seen around where I live. No clue what the rest of the world gets, or what their dope looks like, other than what I read on the internet. I've assumed that the heroin trade has evolved along with the rest of the world and people were no longer subjected to dope that was not very easy, and quite enjoyable to inject. However my posts are based on literature that I've read years ago, so it's not exactly fresh in my mind. Also, I thought heroin #3 was typically too weak to be of any use via any means other than injection, and than heroin #4 was refined to where it was able to be insufflated.

So, what you're saying is all heroin known as heroin #3 is simpily, heroin #4 adultrated in some fashion? I just was always under the impression that heroin #3 was made rather crudely and the manufacturer either didn't bother to refine it, didn't have the skills to refine it, or something like that. Now that I think about it, it would seem sort of dumb not to refine it to near pure before trying to smuggle it across an ocean and a border... but then again I am thinking only of my own little corner of the world. Perhaps I will dig up the papers I had read on this and refresh my memory.

What is heroin #2? I've never heard the term, or at least don't remember reading about it. Where I am from stamp bags are very common. Never seen black tar, and the only thing around this locality consists largely of 2 different types. Most people refer to them very commonly as "white dope" and "brown dope" The "brown dope" is shunned and usually isn't very good. The 'white dope' while it is not exactly white usually, but off-white to very very light beige is considerably more potent. Me and my friend no longer uses heroin very often and is not up on the latest trends.

Yes, I do believe acetylation to be quite easy. This is of course assuming that acetylating morphine with acetic anhydride is not significantly more difficult than say... salycylic acid.

[Raz]

Dontcha just luv all dese knowledgeable guys who get their first hand fuckin experiences off da net!:rolleyes:

Fuckin hell man, jeez.....

Ya wanna see how gear is made, go to Darahabbard....(the bazzar, near pershewar)Dont speak wiv an american accent and grow a fuckin beard

[Woody Bear]

Heroin #2 is heroin freebase.

I was under the impression that the heroin numbering scheme was something that the SEA criminal organisations called their product, not some categories that the DEA made up themselves. If that's not the case, then it's good to know.

But either way the heroin numbering system is fucked, and not a good way of describing it. It's so old and out of date, that it's a bit like talking about how many grains of morphine you're using, instead of using grams and miligrams.

[AnitaFix]

I've come across stuff which gels, becomes concrete etc,. esp. when a larger dose is used.
In this case i have used an acid to help break it down, which helps in most cases. I knew full well
I was dealing with poorley cut #4, so I can see this as a common problem - guy gets shitty H,
automatically starts thinking it's #2. For a good month i was doing it, just dousing the shit in lemon juice
(did a number on my veins too) but eventually it became ok again.

An old dealer called me saying " that shit I sold you, justs loaded .6 & it turned into a fuzzy , bubbly foam". Now, i just had a quarter and no trouble with it. Maybe all the guy had to do is invest in a larger hype, add more water.

[milky_tears]

So, what you're saying is all heroin known as heroin #3 is simpily, heroin #4 adultrated in some fashion? I just was always under the impression that heroin #3 was made rather crudely and the manufacturer either didn't bother to refine it, didn't have the skills to refine it, or something like that.

Yeah- this is the case with mid-Eastern H, (Afghani, #3) You can Google it all and find some mis-information, but a great deal of good info too.

Here's some average #3 from a few years back:-
http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=1255