which sub?

[Boxcar]

i was wondering everyones opinion AND reason fer that opion, on which is better and why... suboxone or subutex?

i have recently come into a rather nice blessing, i have access to either one beginning tomorrow for no charge. i know they are damn costly so i wanna make the best of this situation. my only expirience with subs, is suboxone. whats the differencec between the two... i did do some reading on it, im wondering more on peoples real life expiriences... i want to note tho, im not stopping my current meds and junk play by any means, i will soley be using the subs for when im out of meds and cant afford the H. with that said, i have a tolerence of about 120 mgs of MScontin a day. some months as high as 1-1.5 100mcg fent patches a day. i have gotten away from the fent pretty much so im thinkin my tolerence for any opy has lowered a bit. but i do still use at least 120 of the MS..

thanks fer any replies

[Duckfeet]

subutex is just suboxone w/out naloxone...I just prefer drugs w/less crap in them, so I naturally liked subutex better...*but* if you have a problem--which I do--with trying to *fix* every fucking thing this side of aspirin, might as well know right up front that there is no 'buzz' associated with subutex...(the naloxone in suboxone is 'supposed' to keep u from fixing them, that's all it's there for) and of course, since you have stated that you wish to use bupe *while* using other drugs, there are all kinds of *endless* threads, saying how to do this, but none of them are too consistent...the problem, really, is that subs will "kick out" other drugs, and if you have a serious habit going--which, honestly, most people doing heroin, do...you need to be very careful throwing subs into the mix...as you can get, at worst, precipitated withdrawals...if you *do* miss that little bit of fun, and successfully bounce back and forth between subs and other dope, you will probably find your habit shoots way up, as subs, are *much* stronger opiates than they appear: subs, to me, are like methadone without the buzz, tho their chemistry is much different, that's the result of taking them...

Again, I'd look at some of the older threads where people bounce back and forth between subs and dope...see what results they come up with...it's a crapshoot....

Best wishes...

[runormal]

i agree with DF's post above about the fixing fixation ... if that isn't an issue and you are going to use bupe as rx'd, i still prefer subutex. there are a variety of reasons i prefer it, and i use it as prescribed (unber the tongue), one because the naloxone gave me headaches, i really hated the taste of suboxone, and finally i wanted my dr to trust me enough to rx 'tex and not assume i was going to abuse my meds. i know the taste part seems petty, but in my case since i am paying $400+ a month for my script it should at least taste good.

also, if you are going to use bupe in between - you will find that it can JACK up your tolerance. after the first week i was rx'd bupe, i went off them a week later for my DOC and found it already had that affect. the longer you're on them, lets say you hit a 3 week dry spell, you're going to have the get the bupe off your receptors (bupe has a slow half life) which will take a day or two. so, keep your bupe dose as low as possible. there are lots of threads about that as well.

and of course, if you are really 'sick' and out of everything else, bupe is a wonderful thing to have ... it is 3 days later when bupe is all you have when it ain't so wonderful.

[Narkotikon]

I've never had Subutex. The Suboxone worked fine. I did have sleeplessness and headaches for the first few weeks, but that went away. I didn't think it was associated with the narcan per se, just the fact that bupe is different. It wasn't that bad. I agree with Duckfeet's post too. It's not going to be easy to switch back and forth. Plus, if I may ask, how is this place free? I'd KILL to find a place like that. Subs and Sub Docs are just fucking outrageously expensive. It kind of pisses me off that you're being given this opportunity and you're not even really wanting to do it, when there are people like me who do well on Subs, but can't afford it. Not trying to be an ass, just being honest. I'd seriously think long and hard about this, and TRY to make this work.

[Boxcar]

I've never had Subutex. The Suboxone worked fine. I did have sleeplessness and headaches for the first few weeks, but that went away. I didn't think it was associated with the narcan per se, just the fact that bupe is different. It wasn't that bad. I agree with Duckfeet's post too. It's not going to be easy to switch back and forth. Plus, if I may ask, how is this place free? I'd KILL to find a place like that. Subs and Sub Docs are just fucking outrageously expensive. It kind of pisses me off that you're being given this opportunity and you're not even really wanting to do it, when there are people like me who do well on Subs, but can't afford it. Not trying to be an ass, just being honest. I'd seriously think long and hard about this, and TRY to make this work.

i can take the honesty, im not easily offended, its like this. i have a friend, he ODd on his pain meds, he cant find a dr to give him any narcotics anymore due to med records, his new PM DR did offer him subs to get off the pain meds, however he has been off pain meds fer months already, xcept occassional chipping here and there from my meds or the ER. his workers comp is footing the bill since his oppiate dependency is due to his injury. i know they are expensive, i had a friend give me a bottle of 30 subutex after he kicked H. i was in wicked fent WDs and they worked great, i only had to use one or two every few weeks, cuz i always had a pretty constant hydro connect when outta meds. i just figure this oppurtunity is here, i mena fuck it maybe ill try and detox, tho i have some major medical issues. my med overuse and tolerence has had me using H when i cant get any meds, better than bein sick. i have no problem at all sharin the wealth if it matters

[Duckfeet]

I had subutex stashed for a long time, when I was bouncing between heroin and methadone...I had learned the hard way to just save them for detox, as anything else--to me--didn't work, and I had enough of a habit, and enough problems...

And when I finally accepted the fact that methadone was my only legal remedy--as subs didn't work, for me, too much craving, too much increased tolerance--I kept subs (just in case) but never used them, and after I finally detoxed off methadone, threw subs away...

Again, my opinion only, but I'd save the subs, in case u need them for detox, and just struggle w/the other shit for now...hard to do, but subs can be really strange, if not used correctly...but I too, prefer subutex, for all the reasons others have mentioned...and after fixing them a few times, I realized it was worthless, and the craving left, finally...and if you start a thread asking how to inject subutex, I'll throttle you :p:)

Good luck, bro...

[Boxcar]

I had subutex stashed for a long time, when I was bouncing between heroin and methadone...I had learned the hard way to just save them for detox, as anything else--to me--didn't work, and I had enough of a habit, and enough problems...

And when I finally accepted the fact that methadone was my only legal remedy--as subs didn't work, for me, too much craving, too much increased tolerance--I kept subs (just in case) but never used them, and after I finally detoxed off methadone, threw subs away...

Again, my opinion only, but I'd save the subs, in case u need them for detox, and just struggle w/the other shit for now...hard to do, but subs can be really strange, if not used correctly...but I too, prefer subutex, for all the reasons others have mentioned...and after fixing them a few times, I realized it was worthless, and the craving left, finally...and if you start a thread asking how to inject subutex, I'll throttle you :p:)

Good luck, bro...

throttle me? funny ... thats old man talk.. i love it here. i wouldnt even thought about fixin em, i know they aint good fer gettin off really... like i said tho, only fer the WDs. i prolly only need about 4-6 a month, i dont go too many days without... problem is im a lil worried, i started copin H, open air in santana. it scares me, its shitty tar that barely gets me off, not that id know any other H. but my meds arent lastin.. i never shoulda booted those dillies or the morphine. now meds that are supposed to last a month last 2 weeks if that.... detoxing was never really a thot, just because my illness has me in terrible pain all the time. hows CP gone junkie fer ya? kinda depressing

thanks fer all the posts.... come and throttle me old man!!!

[Duckfeet]

You're right: I guess SantaAna is like everywhere else down here, now...and look: for some people, subs are a lifesaver...it just depends on how they work for you...for some, it does seem to provide pain relief *and* gets rid of withdrawal symptoms...so good luck, they might work for you..just teasing on throttling (see smileys)....and I *found* opy doing a google search on subs and "injecting"....

Best wishes...

[Boxcar]

You're right: I guess SantaAna is like everywhere else down here, now...and look: for some people, subs are a lifesaver...it just depends on how they work for you...for some, it does seem to provide pain relief *and* gets rid of withdrawal symptoms...so good luck, they might work for you..just teasing on throttling (see smileys)....and I *found* opy doing a google search on subs and "injecting"....

Best wishes...


i found ALL you AWESOME mutherfuckers google how ta somke fent gel, that almost landed me in the morgue. ducky you got me here so you can throttle me all ya want, i know you were kiddin. yer went well outta yer way to help me. so yer like my opy granpa er sumthin. yer fulla knowledge and insight and anytime im lookin to learn sumthin and i see a post of yers i know im gonna get an answer.

maybe i was unclear when i started this thread, but i had no intentions of other than tryin not be sick with these subs. i wasnt gonna abuse em, i used subutex before. like i said, and it worked well for me on the no money no meds days. but when i was readin about em in the fourm i was gettin a lil confused. so i started this, i just needee to know the difference in laymans.

hey off topic duck, theres a thread on how tar is made aww ill put the link on yer profile its confusing me, i wanna try putting the baking soda in and uppin the PH, but then there was talk of citric acid and it all confused me. im gonna give the link to ya, maybe you can explain a lil

[Duckfeet]

Everything's cool: sometimes I don't make it clear when I'm teasing: I always worry about you and a lot of my young friends on here...it never did any good, people worrying about me when I was young, but it comes w/knowing sometimes how hard this life can be....

I'm not that knowledgeable about tar, or even how it's made...I think somebody else will have to chime in on that one...I know we just had a thread, where Rach reappeared, and people were telling how it was made, but I was just fucking around on that one...I still miss the old "cut to shit" powder that we used to get in balloons up in your neck of the woods...tar has always been hell on me and my veins...didn't keep me from doing it: I just whined a lot about it :)

Best wishes, Boxcar, hope all is well....


i found ALL you AWESOME mutherfuckers google how ta somke fent gel, that almost landed me in the morgue. ducky you got me here so you can throttle me all ya want, i know you were kiddin. yer went well outta yer way to help me. so yer like my opy granpa er sumthin. yer fulla knowledge and insight and anytime im lookin to learn sumthin and i see a post of yers i know im gonna get an answer.

maybe i was unclear when i started this thread, but i had no intentions of other than tryin not be sick with these subs. i wasnt gonna abuse em, i used subutex before. like i said, and it worked well for me on the no money no meds days. but when i was readin about em in the fourm i was gettin a lil confused. so i started this, i just needee to know the difference in laymans.

hey off topic duck, theres a thread on how tar is made aww ill put the link on yer profile its confusing me, i wanna try putting the baking soda in and uppin the PH, but then there was talk of citric acid and it all confused me. im gonna give the link to ya, maybe you can explain a lil

[Boxcar]

Everything's cool: sometimes I don't make it clear when I'm teasing: I always worry about you and a lot of my young friends on here...it never did any good, people worrying about me when I was young, but it comes w/knowing sometimes how hard this life can be....

I'm not that knowledgeable about tar, or even how it's made...I think somebody else will have to chime in on that one...I know we just had a thread, where Rach reappeared, and people were telling how it was made, but I was just fucking around on that one...I still miss the old "cut to shit" powder that we used to get in balloons up in your neck of the woods...tar has always been hell on me and my veins...didn't keep me from doing it: I just whined a lot about it :)

Best wishes, Boxcar, hope all is well....

iread that whole thread, chopstix had a link in there where he messed w/ph and citric acid, just the way it reads confused me, i know you read it cuz, you have like 3 posts in there. i just thot if you read the link, you could clear it up YOU CAN ALWAYS FUCK AROUND WITH ME i never get mad, offended, im just a fyn dude that likes to laff.. throttle cracked me up. i was gonna make a BANGIN BUPE post, just to get throttled... anyway if you have time and can read the link i sent in yer profile, id appreciate it. i was gonna ask chopstix but he didnt answer me. it was an older thread, dunno if duckys dementia remembers... im just messin too duck. i like ya, ya got me here, so we will ALWAYS be cool.

[Duckfeet]

Yeah, I read that whole thread: lots of good pictures of good-looking dope, but I don't *think* I ever posted on how to improve or tar myself: I just tease sometimes about how it's made(in the original thread you linked from) just to fuck around...I"ve always felt that tar was the beginning of the end, of good heroin availability in the U.S. anyway...good luck, again, I read that thread, lots of different opinions, me, I'm clueless...but Rach and others obviously take it more seriously....and know more about it...I was just playing...


iread that whole thread, chopstix had a link in there where he messed w/ph and citric acid, just the way it reads confused me, i know you read it cuz, you have like 3 posts in there. i just thot if you read the link, you could clear it up YOU CAN ALWAYS FUCK AROUND WITH ME i never get mad, offended, im just a fyn dude that likes to laff.. throttle cracked me up. i was gonna make a BANGIN BUPE post, just to get throttled... anyway if you have time and can read the link i sent in yer profile, id appreciate it. i was gonna ask chopstix but he didnt answer me. it was an older thread, dunno if duckys dementia remembers... im just messin too duck. i like ya, ya got me here, so we will ALWAYS be cool.

[Boxcar]

Yeah, I read that whole thread: lots of good pictures of good-looking dope, but I don't *think* I ever posted on how to improve or tar myself: I just tease sometimes about how it's made(in the original thread you linked from) just to fuck around...I"ve always felt that tar was the beginning of the end, of good heroin availability in the U.S. anyway...good luck, again, I read that thread, lots of different opinions, me, I'm clueless...but Rach and others obviously take it more seriously....and know more about it...I was just playing...


the explination with the pics confused me. i think just the way he worded it. i just thot you knew, being so experienced, and bein from around here, that you would know about tar. im coppin open air, im white in santana, the dope sucks, but its the only place i know of. i just get nervous over there, mostly cuz my cracka ass stands out, and if a cop sees me, he know what im doin there, cuz a white dude in a DELHI neighborhoood dont really fit in, i need to find someon in orange er anahiem. id feel safer. and maybe the dope might work. the tar ive been gettinpast few times changed. not gooey and sticky. its hardlike rocks, square very black till you crack it then brown in the middle. kinda like a small sugarcube, i thought jose was tryin to burn me cus im WETO. but it tasted and smelled the same. dont work well. the all reup on sunday so on monday and tues its better by friday they step on it a lil more. used to be different every monday, but passed 3 weeks have been the same, less potent sugarcube things, ever seen it hard like that?